The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
[Class Rep] Dragonknight Feedback Thread
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Bashev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭BlackMadara wrote: »Just want to say; nobody is using standard ultimate in pvp.
too much expansive.
actually, all classes have 3 types of dmg:
NB = Disease - Physical - Magical
Sorc= Shock - Physical - Magical
Templar= Physical - Magical- Flame
Warden= Physical - Cold - Magical
DK= Magical- Flame - Poison (Physical on Take flight)
Imho magical dmg is way better than poison and poison compared to physical is crap. I don't even get why do DKs have poison dmg having an entire crafting line and mats dedicated to poison.
I really dislike that puke Noxious Breath. But as I am a PvPer I dont know how useful is for the PvE. So I just dont slot that skill. BTW Wardens got a really nice poison damage Subterranean Assault. I will take that
It's not like anymore, now its green fire. Unless you are talking about the viability of the skill, then yes, its puke.
I think there are better ways to get fracture in pve.
I mean it is puke cause it is green and compared to the warden one which hits like a track and provides major fracture.Because I can!0 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Just want to say; nobody is using standard ultimate in pvp.
too much expansive.
actually, all classes have 3 types of dmg:
NB = Disease - Physical - Magical
Sorc= Shock - Physical - Magical
Templar= Physical - Magical- Flame
Warden= Physical - Cold - Magical
DK= Magical- Flame - Poison (Physical on Take flight)
Imho magical dmg is way better than poison and poison compared to physical is crap. I don't even get why do DKs have poison dmg having an entire crafting line and mats dedicated to poison.
Why is magic damage better than poison? At least poison can proc a status effect.
IMHO Magic damage and physical damage are the worst. They don't proc any effects. They are just generic damage.
Personally I would love to see physical damage proc a status (bleed, bruising, whatever), and then turn "magic" damage into either fire, frost, or shock. I always thought the concept of "magic" damage was boring.
As for DKs in general, I actually like the idea of the poison knight. It would be kinda fun if they took the idea a little farther and gave a passive that turned all DK physical damage into poison, so we could just go all in with Morag Tong etc.
A very useless status effect, just a bad versión of burning that gives nothing in return (at least concussion and frozen do something)
Magicka is way more useful in theory against enemies with high flame resistance (though that path has been left behind since 1.2). On the other hand, half PvP is argonian, so poisoned is a status that does nothing rther.
Granted, in PvE it could have some uses just as Disease, but in PvP disease is much more useful.Edited by Xvorg on November 13, 2018 4:37PMSarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique0 -
Xarc✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Maybe a morph of standard about poisonous or sick dmg/debuff for stam could be usefull, I mean, for stamDK... Actually I don't know ONE stamdk playing with standard, maybe there are some, but they must be rares...
The 2 other ultimates have a stam variant, why not the standard ? Making fire damages when you're not oriented to magicka... no; we don't use this ultimate.
Maybe a rework can be done for that;@xarcs FR-EU-PC -"La mort, c'est surfait.", Xarc
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Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Maybe a morph of standard about poisonous or sick dmg/debuff for stam could be usefull, I mean, for stamDK... Actually I don't know ONE stamdk playing with standard, maybe there are some, but they must be rares...
The 2 other ultimates have a stam variant, why not the standard ? Making fire damages when you're not oriented to magicka... no; we don't use this ultimate.
Maybe a rework can be done for that;
standard as any other ulti escalates with max resources + max wpn/spell dmg. How mucvh dmg do you think you'll be doing with a poison based standard?
If using 100 points into might CP star, it will be just an extra 15%, nothing else.
Standard is not a good ulti because its dmg, but because its synergy and buff/debuffs appliedSarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique0 -
Beffagorn✭✭✭Maybe a morph of standard about poisonous or sick dmg/debuff for stam could be usefull, I mean, for stamDK... Actually I don't know ONE stamdk playing with standard, maybe there are some, but they must be rares...
The 2 other ultimates have a stam variant, why not the standard ? Making fire damages when you're not oriented to magicka... no; we don't use this ultimate.
Maybe a rework can be done for that;
Changing the damage type is not going to make Standard viable.
The main issue is the cost. DKs regen is tied to using ultimates often, a 225/250 Ultimate goes against that entirely. The only good thing it bring is AoE Major Defile, but it's pretty easy to get out and the damage is low.
It could have uses in a group setup, but at that point why not bring a Warden with Permafrost? You trade Major Defile debuff and Shackle synergy for: higher damage, lower cost, AoE Major Protection, AoE stun and 66% AoE slow. It's also much easier to use and harder to counter.
To make Standard useful, Shifting Standard needs to be baseline and a new Poison damage morph added to replace it. Even then, i still think Permafrost would be more useful anywayEdited by Beffagorn on November 13, 2018 7:19PM0 -
IZZEFlameLash✭✭✭✭✭
✭Maybe a morph of standard about poisonous or sick dmg/debuff for stam could be usefull, I mean, for stamDK... Actually I don't know ONE stamdk playing with standard, maybe there are some, but they must be rares...
The 2 other ultimates have a stam variant, why not the standard ? Making fire damages when you're not oriented to magicka... no; we don't use this ultimate.
Maybe a rework can be done for that;
Changing the damage type is not going to make Standard viable.
The main issue is the cost. DKs regen is tied to using ultimates often, a 225/250 Ultimate goes against that entirely. The only good thing it bring is AoE Major Defile, but it's pretty easy to get out and the damage is low.
It could have uses in a group setup, but at that point why not bring a Warden with Permafrost? You trade Major Defile debuff and Shackle synergy for: higher damage, lower cost, AoE Major Protection, AoE stun and 66% AoE slow. It's also much easier to use and harder to counter.
To make Standard useful, Shifting Standard needs to be baseline and a new Poison damage morph added to replace it. Even then, i still think Permafrost would be more useful anyway
I'd rather have faster ultgen and have your Standard change to make it useful. Make stam one a bit more expensive in this case because stam has better ultgen than the magicka (WW Hide and Asylum 2H). This is all to not get complaints from NBs. LolImperials, the one and true masters of all mortal races of Tamriel0 -
Aerrimus✭✭Maybe a morph of standard about poisonous or sick dmg/debuff for stam could be usefull, I mean, for stamDK... Actually I don't know ONE stamdk playing with standard, maybe there are some, but they must be rares...
The 2 other ultimates have a stam variant, why not the standard ? Making fire damages when you're not oriented to magicka... no; we don't use this ultimate.
Maybe a rework can be done for that;
Standards are great for ball groups and tanky groups/people. I agree that it does suck that our sustain is tied to our use of ultimates though. It's too hard to wait for that much ultimate to build up and 75% of the time I end up leaping instead..
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Bobby_V_Rockit✭✭✭✭✭
✭I just logged in and saw how tiny greatswords are. Its icky. Make greatswords great again! YA WITH ME HUNTERS!!0 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »Tldr: is Stam DK better or worse after Murkmire?
Nothing really changed that makes any difference.
except speed pots got nerfed. FM got nerfed.
Which is a buff for stam DKs. Stam DK is better in Murkmire or suddenly there is bunch of masochists running in BG because somehow population of stam DKs in BG and in PvP in general increased noticeably. Class was already strong before Murkmire (despite of what all DKs will say) and now it just got stronger especially in non CP where they're just tanks that are doing high DD level of dmg and heavily debuffing enemy.
I think many people playing DK either havnt noticed or tries to hide the fact that 2 meters longer range on meele attacks they recived is very strong buff when combined with snares/immobilizes class already had and a fact right now people cannot deal with snares/immobilizes that easily and the only class that have snare/immobilize immunity skill is...DK.
Edited by Juhasow on December 7, 2018 7:58AM0 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »Tldr: is Stam DK better or worse after Murkmire?
Nothing really changed that makes any difference.
except speed pots got nerfed. FM got nerfed.
Which is a buff for stam DKs. Stam DK is better in Murkmire or suddenly there is bunch of masochists running in BG because somehow population of stam DKs in BG and in PvP in general increased noticeably. Class was already strong before Murkmire (despite of what all DKs will say) and now it just got stronger especially in non CP where they're just tanks that are doing high DD level of dmg and heavily debuffing enemy.
I think many people playing DK either havnt noticed or tries to hide the fact that 2 meters longer range on meele attacks they recived is very strong buff when combined with snares/immobilizes class already had and a fact right now people cannot deal with snares/immobilizes that easily and the only class that have snare/immobilize immunity skill is...DK.
Are you sure you know whats stamDK and whats a magDk? And do you realize shuffle/FM still exists, do you realize speed potions were meta on stamDk?
Dude, EVERY STAM CLASS, has snare immunity. If you are comparing stamina classes here, do it properly or are you another one of those clowns that get trashed by a magDk and then ask for a take flight nerf? I don't think you are , so why are you talking like one?
PS: And oh, by the way, if you think snares,roots and wings makes stamDk oh so strong suddenly, then what should we do with magDks huh?
Edited by Ragnarock41 on December 7, 2018 8:35AM2 -
jcm2606✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »Tldr: is Stam DK better or worse after Murkmire?
Nothing really changed that makes any difference.
except speed pots got nerfed. FM got nerfed.
Which is a buff for stam DKs. Stam DK is better in Murkmire or suddenly there is bunch of masochists running in BG because somehow population of stam DKs in BG and in PvP in general increased noticeably. Class was already strong before Murkmire (despite of what all DKs will say) and now it just got stronger especially in non CP where they're just tanks that are doing high DD level of dmg and heavily debuffing enemy.
I think many people playing DK either havnt noticed or tries to hide the fact that 2 meters longer range on meele attacks they recived is very strong buff when combined with snares/immobilizes class already had and a fact right now people cannot deal with snares/immobilizes that easily and the only class that have snare/immobilize immunity skill is...DK.
Are you sure you know whats stamDK and whats a magDk? And do you realize shuffle/FM still exists, do you realize speed potions were meta on stamDk?
Dude, EVERY STAM CLASS, has snare immunity. If you are comparing stamina classes here, do it properly or are you another one of those clowns that get trashed by a magDk and then ask for a take flight nerf? I don't think you are , so why are you talking like one?
PS: And oh, by the way, if you think snares,roots and wings makes stamDk oh so strong suddenly, then what should we do with magDks huh?
This guy's been on a crusade against DK's ever since Murkmire PTS. Wouldn't even bother arguing with them.1 -
SaintSubwayy✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »Tldr: is Stam DK better or worse after Murkmire?
Nothing really changed that makes any difference.
except speed pots got nerfed. FM got nerfed.
Which is a buff for stam DKs. Stam DK is better in Murkmire or suddenly there is bunch of masochists running in BG because somehow population of stam DKs in BG and in PvP in general increased noticeably. Class was already strong before Murkmire (despite of what all DKs will say) and now it just got stronger especially in non CP where they're just tanks that are doing high DD level of dmg and heavily debuffing enemy.
I think many people playing DK either havnt noticed or tries to hide the fact that 2 meters longer range on meele attacks they recived is very strong buff when combined with snares/immobilizes class already had and a fact right now people cannot deal with snares/immobilizes that easily and the only class that have snare/immobilize immunity skill is...DK.
Are you sure you know whats stamDK and whats a magDk? And do you realize shuffle/FM still exists, do you realize speed potions were meta on stamDk?
Dude, EVERY STAM CLASS, has snare immunity. If you are comparing stamina classes here, do it properly or are you another one of those clowns that get trashed by a magDk and then ask for a take flight nerf? I don't think you are , so why are you talking like one?
PS: And oh, by the way, if you think snares,roots and wings makes stamDk oh so strong suddenly, then what should we do with magDks huh?
This guy's been on a crusade against DK's ever since Murkmire PTS. Wouldn't even bother arguing with them.
he must have been a sorc then
PC EU
vAA HM / vHRC HM / vSO HM / vMoL HM / vHoF HM / vAS HM / vCR HM / vSS HM / vKA HM
Flawless Conqueror / Immortal Redeemer / Dawnbringer / Griphon Heart / Master Angler / Spirit Slayer1 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SaintSubwayy wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »Tldr: is Stam DK better or worse after Murkmire?
Nothing really changed that makes any difference.
except speed pots got nerfed. FM got nerfed.
Which is a buff for stam DKs. Stam DK is better in Murkmire or suddenly there is bunch of masochists running in BG because somehow population of stam DKs in BG and in PvP in general increased noticeably. Class was already strong before Murkmire (despite of what all DKs will say) and now it just got stronger especially in non CP where they're just tanks that are doing high DD level of dmg and heavily debuffing enemy.
I think many people playing DK either havnt noticed or tries to hide the fact that 2 meters longer range on meele attacks they recived is very strong buff when combined with snares/immobilizes class already had and a fact right now people cannot deal with snares/immobilizes that easily and the only class that have snare/immobilize immunity skill is...DK.
Are you sure you know whats stamDK and whats a magDk? And do you realize shuffle/FM still exists, do you realize speed potions were meta on stamDk?
Dude, EVERY STAM CLASS, has snare immunity. If you are comparing stamina classes here, do it properly or are you another one of those clowns that get trashed by a magDk and then ask for a take flight nerf? I don't think you are , so why are you talking like one?
PS: And oh, by the way, if you think snares,roots and wings makes stamDk oh so strong suddenly, then what should we do with magDks huh?
This guy's been on a crusade against DK's ever since Murkmire PTS. Wouldn't even bother arguing with them.
he must have been a sorc then
Wanna know fun fact ? I also play DK as one of my characters.0 -
SaintSubwayy✭✭✭✭✭
✭SaintSubwayy wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »Tldr: is Stam DK better or worse after Murkmire?
Nothing really changed that makes any difference.
except speed pots got nerfed. FM got nerfed.
Which is a buff for stam DKs. Stam DK is better in Murkmire or suddenly there is bunch of masochists running in BG because somehow population of stam DKs in BG and in PvP in general increased noticeably. Class was already strong before Murkmire (despite of what all DKs will say) and now it just got stronger especially in non CP where they're just tanks that are doing high DD level of dmg and heavily debuffing enemy.
I think many people playing DK either havnt noticed or tries to hide the fact that 2 meters longer range on meele attacks they recived is very strong buff when combined with snares/immobilizes class already had and a fact right now people cannot deal with snares/immobilizes that easily and the only class that have snare/immobilize immunity skill is...DK.
Are you sure you know whats stamDK and whats a magDk? And do you realize shuffle/FM still exists, do you realize speed potions were meta on stamDk?
Dude, EVERY STAM CLASS, has snare immunity. If you are comparing stamina classes here, do it properly or are you another one of those clowns that get trashed by a magDk and then ask for a take flight nerf? I don't think you are , so why are you talking like one?
PS: And oh, by the way, if you think snares,roots and wings makes stamDk oh so strong suddenly, then what should we do with magDks huh?
This guy's been on a crusade against DK's ever since Murkmire PTS. Wouldn't even bother arguing with them.
he must have been a sorc then
Wanna know fun fact ? I also play DK as one of my characters.
well, then you should be able to see that this topic is not as usless as you make it.
on the othe rhand, not every class need to be the same, or equal in any means, but certain things need to happen aka certain skills that every class should have. Stamspammable, magicka spammable, ect.PC EU
vAA HM / vHRC HM / vSO HM / vMoL HM / vHoF HM / vAS HM / vCR HM / vSS HM / vKA HM
Flawless Conqueror / Immortal Redeemer / Dawnbringer / Griphon Heart / Master Angler / Spirit Slayer0 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »Tldr: is Stam DK better or worse after Murkmire?
Nothing really changed that makes any difference.
except speed pots got nerfed. FM got nerfed.
Which is a buff for stam DKs. Stam DK is better in Murkmire or suddenly there is bunch of masochists running in BG because somehow population of stam DKs in BG and in PvP in general increased noticeably. Class was already strong before Murkmire (despite of what all DKs will say) and now it just got stronger especially in non CP where they're just tanks that are doing high DD level of dmg and heavily debuffing enemy.
I think many people playing DK either havnt noticed or tries to hide the fact that 2 meters longer range on meele attacks they recived is very strong buff when combined with snares/immobilizes class already had and a fact right now people cannot deal with snares/immobilizes that easily and the only class that have snare/immobilize immunity skill is...DK.
Are you sure you know whats stamDK and whats a magDk? And do you realize shuffle/FM still exists, do you realize speed potions were meta on stamDk?
Dude, EVERY STAM CLASS, has snare immunity. If you are comparing stamina classes here, do it properly or are you another one of those clowns that get trashed by a magDk and then ask for a take flight nerf? I don't think you are , so why are you talking like one?
PS: And oh, by the way, if you think snares,roots and wings makes stamDk oh so strong suddenly, then what should we do with magDks huh?
This guy's been on a crusade against DK's ever since Murkmire PTS. Wouldn't even bother arguing with them.
I was ? That's interresting. I doubt I was ever on crusade against any particular class an if You'll follow history of my posts You'll find that during my forum account existance I had objections to certain features on every class in the game when certain things were or still are overperforming. Dk is not even the primary class I have objections agaisnt currently.
From what I recall I've made 1 post during Murkmire PTS that I am affaraid that due to overall balance changes DK level of controll over enemies will be too hiigh and this will create imbalance. Funny fact is this is what is actually happening right now and I can say with full responsibility that I was right in that statement back then. After I created that ONE post You're talking about bunch of DK went on cruscade against me and most of their comment could be summarized as "You are wrong because You are wrong" and they were responding repeating same arguments that many time had no sense or were just repeating same already debunked theories. Naturally I started to respond to many of that posts stating my point of view which right now You are calling crusade lol.Edited by Juhasow on December 7, 2018 9:51AM0 -
jcm2606✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »Tldr: is Stam DK better or worse after Murkmire?
Nothing really changed that makes any difference.
except speed pots got nerfed. FM got nerfed.
Which is a buff for stam DKs. Stam DK is better in Murkmire or suddenly there is bunch of masochists running in BG because somehow population of stam DKs in BG and in PvP in general increased noticeably. Class was already strong before Murkmire (despite of what all DKs will say) and now it just got stronger especially in non CP where they're just tanks that are doing high DD level of dmg and heavily debuffing enemy.
I think many people playing DK either havnt noticed or tries to hide the fact that 2 meters longer range on meele attacks they recived is very strong buff when combined with snares/immobilizes class already had and a fact right now people cannot deal with snares/immobilizes that easily and the only class that have snare/immobilize immunity skill is...DK.
Are you sure you know whats stamDK and whats a magDk? And do you realize shuffle/FM still exists, do you realize speed potions were meta on stamDk?
Dude, EVERY STAM CLASS, has snare immunity. If you are comparing stamina classes here, do it properly or are you another one of those clowns that get trashed by a magDk and then ask for a take flight nerf? I don't think you are , so why are you talking like one?
PS: And oh, by the way, if you think snares,roots and wings makes stamDk oh so strong suddenly, then what should we do with magDks huh?
This guy's been on a crusade against DK's ever since Murkmire PTS. Wouldn't even bother arguing with them.
I was ? That's interresting. I doubt I was ever on crusade against any particular class an if You'll follow history of my posts You'll find that during my forum account existance I had objections to certain features on every class in the game when certain things were or still are overperforming. Dk is not even the primary class I have objections agaisnt currently.
From what I recall I've made 1 post during Murkmire PTS that I am affaraid that due to overall balance changes DK level of controll over enemies will be too hiigh and this will create imbalance. Funny fact is this is what is actually happening right now and I can say with full responsibility that I was right in that statement back then. After I created that ONE post You're talking about bunch of DK went on cruscade against me and most of their comment could be summarized as "You are wrong because You are wrong" and they were responding repeating same arguments that many time had no sense or were just repeating same already debunked theories. Naturally I started to respond to many of that posts stating my point of view which right now You are calling crusade lol.
You were in the PTS feedback thread for DK's spouting that DK's would be overperforming due to the movement speed nerfs, and so you wanted to nerf DK's ability to control the fight, which is the entire premise the class is built upon. There was some back and forth between the two of us and a couple other people for a bit over 2 pages. You were also in another thread dedicated to nerfing Petrify and its morphs, which resulted in a similar back and forth. And those are just the two times I can recall.
DK isn't overperforming right now, snares in general are. Yes, DK has some snares that are easy to access, but it isn't the worst offender. Look at Warden and ice staves for that.2 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »Tldr: is Stam DK better or worse after Murkmire?
Nothing really changed that makes any difference.
except speed pots got nerfed. FM got nerfed.
Which is a buff for stam DKs. Stam DK is better in Murkmire or suddenly there is bunch of masochists running in BG because somehow population of stam DKs in BG and in PvP in general increased noticeably. Class was already strong before Murkmire (despite of what all DKs will say) and now it just got stronger especially in non CP where they're just tanks that are doing high DD level of dmg and heavily debuffing enemy.
I think many people playing DK either havnt noticed or tries to hide the fact that 2 meters longer range on meele attacks they recived is very strong buff when combined with snares/immobilizes class already had and a fact right now people cannot deal with snares/immobilizes that easily and the only class that have snare/immobilize immunity skill is...DK.
Are you sure you know whats stamDK and whats a magDk? And do you realize shuffle/FM still exists, do you realize speed potions were meta on stamDk?
Dude, EVERY STAM CLASS, has snare immunity. If you are comparing stamina classes here, do it properly or are you another one of those clowns that get trashed by a magDk and then ask for a take flight nerf? I don't think you are , so why are you talking like one?
PS: And oh, by the way, if you think snares,roots and wings makes stamDk oh so strong suddenly, then what should we do with magDks huh?
This guy's been on a crusade against DK's ever since Murkmire PTS. Wouldn't even bother arguing with them.
I was ? That's interresting. I doubt I was ever on crusade against any particular class an if You'll follow history of my posts You'll find that during my forum account existance I had objections to certain features on every class in the game when certain things were or still are overperforming. Dk is not even the primary class I have objections agaisnt currently.
From what I recall I've made 1 post during Murkmire PTS that I am affaraid that due to overall balance changes DK level of controll over enemies will be too hiigh and this will create imbalance. Funny fact is this is what is actually happening right now and I can say with full responsibility that I was right in that statement back then. After I created that ONE post You're talking about bunch of DK went on cruscade against me and most of their comment could be summarized as "You are wrong because You are wrong" and they were responding repeating same arguments that many time had no sense or were just repeating same already debunked theories. Naturally I started to respond to many of that posts stating my point of view which right now You are calling crusade lol.
You were in the PTS feedback thread for DK's spouting that DK's would be overperforming due to the movement speed nerfs, and so you wanted to nerf DK's ability to control the fight, which is the entire premise the class is built upon. There was some back and forth between the two of us and a couple other people for a bit over 2 pages. You were also in another thread dedicated to nerfing Petrify and its morphs, which resulted in a similar back and forth. And those are just the two times I can recall.
DK isn't overperforming right now, snares in general are. Yes, DK has some snares that are easy to access, but it isn't the worst offender. Look at Warden and ice staves for that.
That is a good way to summerize it. I agree, snares in general are working in a very dumb way. Though wardens and ice staves are much more painful than Dks ever were in that regard.0 -
Skoomah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Can we please lay off DKs? It’s power level is middle of the road. I’m okay with being average. Please just stop with the complaints and call for nerfs already...0 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »Tldr: is Stam DK better or worse after Murkmire?
Nothing really changed that makes any difference.
except speed pots got nerfed. FM got nerfed.
Which is a buff for stam DKs. Stam DK is better in Murkmire or suddenly there is bunch of masochists running in BG because somehow population of stam DKs in BG and in PvP in general increased noticeably. Class was already strong before Murkmire (despite of what all DKs will say) and now it just got stronger especially in non CP where they're just tanks that are doing high DD level of dmg and heavily debuffing enemy.
I think many people playing DK either havnt noticed or tries to hide the fact that 2 meters longer range on meele attacks they recived is very strong buff when combined with snares/immobilizes class already had and a fact right now people cannot deal with snares/immobilizes that easily and the only class that have snare/immobilize immunity skill is...DK.
Are you sure you know whats stamDK and whats a magDk? And do you realize shuffle/FM still exists, do you realize speed potions were meta on stamDk?
Dude, EVERY STAM CLASS, has snare immunity. If you are comparing stamina classes here, do it properly or are you another one of those clowns that get trashed by a magDk and then ask for a take flight nerf? I don't think you are , so why are you talking like one?
PS: And oh, by the way, if you think snares,roots and wings makes stamDk oh so strong suddenly, then what should we do with magDks huh?
This guy's been on a crusade against DK's ever since Murkmire PTS. Wouldn't even bother arguing with them.
I was ? That's interresting. I doubt I was ever on crusade against any particular class an if You'll follow history of my posts You'll find that during my forum account existance I had objections to certain features on every class in the game when certain things were or still are overperforming. Dk is not even the primary class I have objections agaisnt currently.
From what I recall I've made 1 post during Murkmire PTS that I am affaraid that due to overall balance changes DK level of controll over enemies will be too hiigh and this will create imbalance. Funny fact is this is what is actually happening right now and I can say with full responsibility that I was right in that statement back then. After I created that ONE post You're talking about bunch of DK went on cruscade against me and most of their comment could be summarized as "You are wrong because You are wrong" and they were responding repeating same arguments that many time had no sense or were just repeating same already debunked theories. Naturally I started to respond to many of that posts stating my point of view which right now You are calling crusade lol.
You were in the PTS feedback thread for DK's spouting that DK's would be overperforming due to the movement speed nerfs, and so you wanted to nerf DK's ability to control the fight, which is the entire premise the class is built upon. There was some back and forth between the two of us and a couple other people for a bit over 2 pages. You were also in another thread dedicated to nerfing Petrify and its morphs, which resulted in a similar back and forth. And those are just the two times I can recall.
DK isn't overperforming right now, snares in general are. Yes, DK has some snares that are easy to access, but it isn't the worst offender. Look at Warden and ice staves for that.
Spouting You say ? Any particular examples ? By that logic I can say that You were spouting everything is ok with DK. DK is overperforming due to movement nerfs since it's only class with passive snare , AoE immobilize and undodgable unblockable hard CC that also applies immobilize. Because movement speed was nerfed and most of offensive abilities got buffed by 2 meters for dk right now , class have much easier control then it used to which also causes increase in dmg because slower then before enemies will take more time to get away from larger then before distance which allows dk to put more dmg on them. If whole premise of the class would be just control I would be totaly fine with it. Problem is when with control comes also high dmg and tankiness which DK have (despite of all DK will try to tell). DK is simply tank that is doing DD level of dmg and one of the reasons why developer cannot deal with oblivion/bleed dmg is because oblivion /bleed dmg nerf would be huge DK buff. SO You say that because I have 1 certain opinion and I presented it in 2 threads I am on crusade agaisnt DK ? Lel by that logic You are even on bigger crusade since You always respond back and forth to anyone that tries to tell DK may be not that bad as many DK players says it is.
Saying "DK isn't overperforming right now, snares in general are." is just silly. So when snares are overperforming and there is 1 class that can take control through snares , immobilizes , undodgable/unblockable stun to the next level there isnt issue with that class there is still issue purely with snares ? Please dont try to bring warden to that discussion. You are literally trying to say "yes I know DK can overperform at snares/immobilizes/stuns but look at warden he can sometimes be even more cancerous with immobilizes." fact that thing B can be strong at something doesnt mean that thing A suddenly isnt. For the record snare memes with Ice blockade are almost as effective on DK as on warden. Also I havnt seen effective stam wardern having lot of control over the enemie when it's basicly casual thing on stam dk. It's not coincidence that in BG suddenly there is less stam wardens lately and more stam dks. As I said previously I have no isse with controll and tankiness as long as there isnt high dmg coming with it and DK currently breaks that rule.
I think I'll stop here since I see there is no point to discuss with DK players since level of delusion for some of them overcomes level of delusion for stamblades and I really dont want to get into pointless back and forth boring discussions. My only goal was to present my point of view not to fight with some people delusion. There can be more delusional stamblades in numbers since there is lot of stamblades in general but DK definietly have higher population percentage of delusional players.Edited by Juhasow on December 7, 2018 1:14PM2 -
SaintSubwayy✭✭✭✭✭
✭Can we please lay off DKs? It’s power level is middle of the road. I’m okay with being average. Please just stop with the complaints and call for nerfs already...
actuall ymost ppl call for buffs, only a few players, most of them cant handle DK's in PVP, are calling for nerfs to the CC a DK can put out in PVP.
PVE wise mag and Stam DKs are lackluster compared to other meele Damagedealers.
DK needs uffs to stay competitive with other Meele DD's , or else DK's wont get picked anymore.
UNfortunatley Dk DD's cannto provide any usefull groupbuffs, which the DK Tank couldnt also Provide.PC EU
vAA HM / vHRC HM / vSO HM / vMoL HM / vHoF HM / vAS HM / vCR HM / vSS HM / vKA HM
Flawless Conqueror / Immortal Redeemer / Dawnbringer / Griphon Heart / Master Angler / Spirit Slayer1 -
John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@SaintSubwayy , that's why I'm dissatisfied with Minor Brutality being slapped on magicka-only support skill tree (and unlike with NBs, skill has to be actually used, not simply slotted, to give the group buff). It's like being further pressured into tank role, as if DKs didn't have 'tank' label slapped on them already.1 -
SaintSubwayy✭✭✭✭✭
✭John_Falstaff wrote: »@SaintSubwayy , that's why I'm dissatisfied with Minor Brutality being slapped on magicka-only support skill tree (and unlike with NBs, skill has to be actually used, not simply slotted, to give the group buff). It's like being further pressured into tank role, as if DKs didn't have 'tank' label slapped on them already.
JEah, I'd rather have minor Brutality added to something like: When dealing Direct DMG to an enemie with an ST ardent Flame Ability....then provide minor brutality.
So only Whip, or BE / VC and Chains could proc it. Forcing the Tank to Slott 2 Ardent Flame abilities to provide the group with the Buffs (10% firedmg and minor brut)
Then you'd have to alteast take 1 DK, either mag or Stam into your raid, and the Tank will then Provide the other buff. (expect MagDK, which can provide both)
And by reworking Nox Breath, to increase Poisondmg by 10% instead of major Fracture (kinda useless in PVE) It would Mix things up even more.PC EU
vAA HM / vHRC HM / vSO HM / vMoL HM / vHoF HM / vAS HM / vCR HM / vSS HM / vKA HM
Flawless Conqueror / Immortal Redeemer / Dawnbringer / Griphon Heart / Master Angler / Spirit Slayer0 -
SaintSubwayy✭✭✭✭✭
✭1. Class heals for mag dk or some sort of magika vigor.
2. Lack of execution.
1. Mag DK has enough sources of Selfhealing: Burning Embers, Shattering Rocks (only if the enemy attacks you), Deep Breath / Absorb Magicka, Coagulating Blood.
2. DK's have always shined due to their High Sustained DMG over the Fights
Other Classes, with execute only get the DPS up due to the ability to increase their DPS number in the Execute stage, before that stage, their DPS has always been Lower than DK's
Atleast it was like that a Looong time ago, and has to be like that again....DK DMG monster when able to stay in the fight for the whole duration, With constant High DMG, other classes a bit lower DMG during the fight, but with execute the DMG should skyrocket to the LVL DK had the Whole fight (DPS tooltip wise ofc, DMG in execute is higher to bring the DPS up to DK's lvl from the whole fight)
ATM its more like, all have 60k DPS before Exe, and DD's with execute get up to 65-70k, while DK is stuck arround 60K
This goes hand in hand with Bloodthirsty beeing more worth, the higher your execute DMG already is.Edited by SaintSubwayy on December 7, 2018 12:41PMPC EU
vAA HM / vHRC HM / vSO HM / vMoL HM / vHoF HM / vAS HM / vCR HM / vSS HM / vKA HM
Flawless Conqueror / Immortal Redeemer / Dawnbringer / Griphon Heart / Master Angler / Spirit Slayer0 -
TrinityBreaker✭✭✭✭✭I wasn't aware DK in general had more DPS than every other class. Tell me more.Ebonheart for life.
Xbox NA
I am Dog Star.
Khajiit Stam Sorc - Ji'saad Ranajiradh AR 30
Khajiit Mag DK - Kesjhad
Khajiit Magblade - Ji'sava Ak'nir
Fat Khajiit Stamplar - Dro'haniAk'nir - AR 36
Khajiit Stam Dk - Diego Ri'jhad - AR 49
Khajiit Magplar - Dro'nara Ak'nir
Khajiit StamBlade - Ri'artharr Ak'nir
Fat Khajiit Stamden - Dro'hani Warbreaker
Argonian Stam DK - Tiberius Demetros
Khajiit Stamplar - Diëgo Ri'jhad
Fat Khajiit Stam DK - Drö'hani Ak'nir/Dances-With-Alkosh
Khajiit Magden - Arctic Mayhem0 -
SaintSubwayy✭✭✭✭✭
✭TrinityBreaker wrote: »I wasn't aware DK in general had more DPS than every other class. Tell me more.
It wasnt in general... only before Executerange. DK made Up for the Lack of an Execute SKill, by beeing strong over the whole fight, other were "weaker" before execute, but way stronger during Execute.
well that was even before Morrowind, when the sustain wasnt nerfed into the ground, and "great" DMG was arround 40-45k in a Raid.
I can take an Example from vMoL back then, with my own Expiereience I had there, so numbers could differ from that time.
I PLayed vMoL with my Mag DK Overall DPS at the End of the Rakkaht fight was about 43k for me, while some Sorcfreinds in this group where sometimes arround 42-44k, but they had an Execute...when we compared DPS number after a Wipe I had arround 42k and the Sorcs where at arround 38-39k. They where close, but not on par with the DK, before execute.
In Comparison to a Raid Dummy Parse I made with a vHoF Progressgroup after Murkmire.
Stamblade 83K, MagDK 73K. MagNB 75k
So I occupied 1 Meelespot, on which a Stamblade would deal up to 10k More DPS. While not Providing any group Buffs the tank couldnt provide. Thats about a 14% DMG loss on this Position. with no Benefit for the group.....
To be Fair here, I could have gotten higher maybe to max of 75k. (So a Little whaky on my side)
Soooo why the frog should someone take a MagDK into your raid...unless the tanks are super bad at chaining, or buffuptimes xD
Edited by SaintSubwayy on December 7, 2018 1:13PMPC EU
vAA HM / vHRC HM / vSO HM / vMoL HM / vHoF HM / vAS HM / vCR HM / vSS HM / vKA HM
Flawless Conqueror / Immortal Redeemer / Dawnbringer / Griphon Heart / Master Angler / Spirit Slayer0 -
Onefrkncrzypope✭✭✭✭✭
✭SaintSubwayy wrote: »1. Class heals for mag dk or some sort of magika vigor.
2. Lack of execution.
1. Mag DK has enough sources of Selfhealing: Burning Embers, Shattering Rocks (only if the enemy attacks you), Deep Breath / Absorb Magicka, Coagulating Blood.
2. DK's have always shined due to their High Sustained DMG over the Fights
Other Classes, with execute only get the DPS up due to the ability to increase their DPS number in the Execute stage, before that stage, their DPS has always been Lower than DK's
Atleast it was like that a Looong time ago, and has to be like that again....DK DMG monster when able to stay in the fight for the whole duration, With constant High DMG, other classes a bit lower DMG during the fight, but with execute the DMG should skyrocket to the LVL DK had the Whole fight (DPS tooltip wise ofc, DMG in execute is higher to bring the DPS up to DK's lvl from the whole fight)
ATM its more like, all have 60k DPS before Exe, and DD's with execute get up to 65-70k, while DK is stuck arround 60K
This goes hand in hand with Bloodthirsty beeing more worth, the higher your execute DMG already is.
You are barking up the wrong tree. They are speaking in a PvP point of view. Where dk sustain is a mini game. I hit high on every DPS set up and have to say(using meta setup) magsorc is the worst then it's CW stamsorc and Stam dk(the places change depending on monster helm on the Stam Sorc) it's just stupid with crushing. So bad that the spammableless classes are spamming dots.......
PvP wise if you think SDKs are op it's not the class it's the sets. sDks have zero damage modifiers and zero sustain modifiers.
They are literally the only class that has to save ult for sustain instead of burst. They have a 3(4 I don't remember) sec snare on dots that aren't used often. sDk skills are literally outclassed by the dw axe passive.
How are they op-Immortal Redeemer-
-Extinguisher of Flames-
-Gryphon Heart-
-Potato-
If I edited a post, it was for spelling. It is always because of spelling....1 -
Lumenn✭✭✭✭✭
✭In battlegrounds I'm not usually(hardly ever) the guy making the kill. High on assist medals, but kills? I just simply don't have the damage to do it quickly unless they are very squishy. I do however get lots of whispers from people pissed when I slow them down and a teammate kills them. We're support, and people think we're overpowered.....0 -
TrinityBreaker✭✭✭✭✭I truly don't understand how people claim DK is op and call for nerfs when the class seems to always be kicked when its down.
-Laughs in Wrobel-Ebonheart for life.
Xbox NA
I am Dog Star.
Khajiit Stam Sorc - Ji'saad Ranajiradh AR 30
Khajiit Mag DK - Kesjhad
Khajiit Magblade - Ji'sava Ak'nir
Fat Khajiit Stamplar - Dro'haniAk'nir - AR 36
Khajiit Stam Dk - Diego Ri'jhad - AR 49
Khajiit Magplar - Dro'nara Ak'nir
Khajiit StamBlade - Ri'artharr Ak'nir
Fat Khajiit Stamden - Dro'hani Warbreaker
Argonian Stam DK - Tiberius Demetros
Khajiit Stamplar - Diëgo Ri'jhad
Fat Khajiit Stam DK - Drö'hani Ak'nir/Dances-With-Alkosh
Khajiit Magden - Arctic Mayhem1 -
SaintSubwayy✭✭✭✭✭
✭In battlegrounds I'm not usually(hardly ever) the guy making the kill. High on assist medals, but kills? I just simply don't have the damage to do it quickly unless they are very squishy. I do however get lots of whispers from people pissed when I slow them down and a teammate kills them. We're support, and people think we're overpowered.....
Well in BG's theres nearly always an ally nearby , so if ppl complain there its best to just ignore xD
However, MagDK is really strong in 1v1's...the abilitly to bring the enemies attack to a hault, with Fossilize, or shattering rocks is really strong, especially since most build cannot 1 Shot a DK, when hes good enough and pays attention.
I dont get the ppl who complain about reflect, cause I personally dont use it, and I can deal with Sorcs or MagNb's in PVP quite well, but thats my opinion.
The thing is, Zos cannot just flatout buff DK, to bring it on par in PVE, bcaus eit could become just flat out broken in PVP
Personally I dont like the fact that Eruption can deal more DPS ST than BE or Engulfing can....AOE Dot > ST Dot...even on ST...what the duess?...Eorror 405: Locig not found PC EU
vAA HM / vHRC HM / vSO HM / vMoL HM / vHoF HM / vAS HM / vCR HM / vSS HM / vKA HM
Flawless Conqueror / Immortal Redeemer / Dawnbringer / Griphon Heart / Master Angler / Spirit Slayer0