[Class Rep] Dragonknight Feedback Thread

IZZEFlameLash

Andele wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

That's what @IZZEFlameLash is trying to explain, the animation is not seen, but the dmg is not applied almost instantly, it is applied at normal rates. It seems to go faster, but it doesn't.

With a 2H sword and weaving a LA is easy to see that and you can put good dmg when using an oblivion glyph, the problem is that you can get locked in the LA animation

Actually LA+ability are "speed up"/applied instantly together if the ability is instant cast. Short of skills with a specific "pseduo cooldown" like on imbue weapon (where it doesnt matter if you block, roll or swap cancel or just let the animation play the downtime is set to the same if not longer if you dont let it run due to input time), its just "total amount of both skills and attacks cast per GCD and "attack speed" period" will always be the same if there is no input lag.

E.g. if the game had recovery/transitional animations locked at 0.5s with 1 input buffer instead of the 0.7~0.9 gcd, the damage over 2 second for DK doing light attack claw weave would be "LA 4k @ 0>Claw 4k @ 0.5>LA 4k @ 1>Claw 4k @ 1.5>LA 4k @ 2" instead of "Attack+Claw for 8k @ 0> Another 8k from Attack+Claw @ 0.8 > yet another 8k from Attack+Claw @ 1.6"

Only time things actually 'speed up' is when you use external software to bypass the mechanic or in case of cast time abilities, eaxh cast shaves off few micro seconds till it reaches certain value. Animation cancel does not speed things up. It is necessary to retain high DPS but it is not because it speeds up skills hitting time. Not even instacast abilities will speed up because of animation cancelling. And cast timed ones are impossible to anim cancel. I thought this was all clear from answers to anti-anim cancel threads to macro accusing threads. But this thread is to discuss DKs not anim cancel.

Andele

Yes it does because

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Only time things actually 'speed up' is when you use external software to bypass the mechanic or in case of cast time abilities, eaxh cast shaves off few micro seconds till it reaches certain value. Animation cancel does not speed things up. It is necessary to retain high DPS but it is not because it speeds up skills hitting time. Not even instacast abilities will speed up because of animation cancelling. And cast timed ones are impossible to anim cancel. I thought this was all clear from answers to anti-anim cancel threads to macro accusing threads. But this thread is to discuss DKs not anim cancel.

If you dont understand what a interval is nor that light attacks are in game coded as instant cast skills off the GCD thus 2 instant casts make for higher true burst/reduce reaction time than just a bit over half the gcd but with recovery or tween, thats on you. Point is tho that as noted prior attack speed boost would be a nice thing on Molten Weapon morphs and that people who do block or swap cancel whip do have the benefit of most of the animation being invisible/now with unified range LA prior to it essentially works like fighting game hitconfirm for it (even in pve).

JasonWangTaiwan

1. stam class spammable
2. All Dk need speed boost ,fighting DW jumping spinners is really painful and those attacking you don’t need activate defenses skills because DK won’t land a hit to them!

Xvorg

Andele wrote: »

Yes it does because

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Only time things actually 'speed up' is when you use external software to bypass the mechanic or in case of cast time abilities, eaxh cast shaves off few micro seconds till it reaches certain value. Animation cancel does not speed things up. It is necessary to retain high DPS but it is not because it speeds up skills hitting time. Not even instacast abilities will speed up because of animation cancelling. And cast timed ones are impossible to anim cancel. I thought this was all clear from answers to anti-anim cancel threads to macro accusing threads. But this thread is to discuss DKs not anim cancel.

If you dont understand what a interval is nor that light attacks are in game coded as instant cast skills off the GCD thus 2 instant casts make for higher true burst/reduce reaction time than just a bit over half the gcd but with recovery or tween, thats on you. Point is tho that as noted prior attack speed boost would be a nice thing on Molten Weapon morphs and that people who do block or swap cancel whip do have the benefit of most of the animation being invisible/now with unified range LA prior to it essentially works like fighting game hitconfirm for it (even in pve).

what!

No man... there's no speed boost, maybe you get the impression that's faster but it isn't. What anicancel does is to put al dmg different from a second skill in the same GDC, hence you can:

LA weave
use a dmg skill
bash

all in one sec.

That has has been discussed extensively during the last 4 years, with denizen of proofs, and all seem to indicate the same: There is no way you can fire 2 skills in less than one second.

That's allso the reason why the cast time on shields was so resisted since your char would have stucked in the animation for one second, without the chance of using block/bash/LA/Dodgeroll/swap... the so called "dmg window"

But this is a DK theme, not one on animation cancel. If you want mor einfo about it, have a look at this thread Anicancel

IZZEFlameLash

Andele wrote: »

Yes it does because

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Only time things actually 'speed up' is when you use external software to bypass the mechanic or in case of cast time abilities, eaxh cast shaves off few micro seconds till it reaches certain value. Animation cancel does not speed things up. It is necessary to retain high DPS but it is not because it speeds up skills hitting time. Not even instacast abilities will speed up because of animation cancelling. And cast timed ones are impossible to anim cancel. I thought this was all clear from answers to anti-anim cancel threads to macro accusing threads. But this thread is to discuss DKs not anim cancel.

If you dont understand what a interval is nor that light attacks are in game coded as instant cast skills off the GCD thus 2 instant casts make for higher true burst/reduce reaction time than just a bit over half the gcd but with recovery or tween, thats on you. Point is tho that as noted prior attack speed boost would be a nice thing on Molten Weapon morphs and that people who do block or swap cancel whip do have the benefit of most of the animation being invisible/now with unified range LA prior to it essentially works like fighting game hitconfirm for it (even in pve).

Lol. You are the one not understanding this game mechanic here. But I think Xvorg covered it.

BP_Sparty

This is the first patch since I started my Magdk (think it was dragonbones) that I have found the game to be unplayable. Thanks for the balance of the game where I cant even use the one class I want to play.

JumpmanLane

Xvorg wrote: »

Integral1900 wrote: »

As a stamina dk it would be nice not to have to keep chugging magica potions, litteraly all the fun stuff is magic with a few uninspiring ones turned into stamina.

For example, we have green vomit breath, a fairly useless skill I haven’t bothered with since I realised it’s tiny area and garbage game code misses most of the mobs (and it doesn’t make that nice metallic cracking noise anymore when you hit something with it) The skill is useless, why get a tank to apply the major armour debuf when a stam sorc with hurricane, night mother’s and a boat load of crit can plaster the whole battlefield with it?

There are no stamin heals for the class except the pathetic little dribble from the two handed buff and the little bit from using ultimates (whose supply of resources is always disappointing) pvp may love it but in a dungeon with a fake healer, fake tank and a hard mode boss on the rampage that heal doesn’t mean squat!

Most of all the stamina version of the class just seems to have been stripped of all the fun. Ultimates used to be able to dam near fill my resource bars, now I get more out of a trash potion! They stripped that awesome flaming aura and now we just have that stupid flaming disco ball with it’s dreadful ai. They turned the awesome fire abilities into these rubbish poison ones! So what if they do good damage... I don’t care.... I built this class to watch my fire wreathed greatsword send foes flying through the air while a flaming force of nature burned them to ash. If you want poison go be a nightblade, poison is an assassins tool, it’s not befitting a mighty armoured inferno!

TBH, Engulfing is not great at all. Very hard to land.

Regarding the "good" skills of mDK compared to stam DK, there's only one, whip, and is currently crap at least in PvP. IMHO it has never been a good skill either (very clunky and slow, now it's even dodgeable).

The rest is just the same for mDK and sDK, with the sole exception of igneous weapons

I don’t have trouble landing engulfing flames and it’s cheap enough to double cast if you miss. If you pressure any fool dumb enough to enter melee combat, engulfing and whip hit HARD.

Engulfing is def a better choice than talons with everyone popping immovables etc.

JumpmanLane

Flame_of_Hades wrote: »

so, this is going to very unpopular, but here it goes.

I have been mostly playing magDK for almost a year now. (no where near the time of some other people on this forum, but i have been playing the game since launch)

i do not find whip hard to hit. talons-whip-fossilize-power lash. animation cancel these and its an easy hit.

i can't say iv tested it, but i do not think that the increased cost will be very much of a problem. 1k magicka for a power lash that normally goes off by accident in your rotation....... hmm, i got a cheaper whip (cause lets be honest, without the stun, its a slightly higher damage whip that heals....)

taking the stun off the whip is GOOD. I cannot tell you how many times iv been in a fight and said "hmm let me line up my burst, wait for the right time to stun... *power lash stuns them and gives them immunity* *runs off screaming in frustration*"

i see very little total change to mDK in this patch.

if i were to ask for anything, it would be:

1. make wings reflect 3 projectiles, PER PERSON. this makes wings valuable v the 10 snipe spamming zerglings chasing you, but makes it easier for ranged builds to get past wings 1v1.

2. execute. any. execute. make power lash the execute(not a great buff, but we would have one....), or maybe make molten arraignments worth the cost/useable by reworking it so that it gives an effect that increases the speed of heavy attacks and increases damage v low health enemies(100%-200%.....). this also solves the DK sustain issue, as it makes it easier to get resources back from heavy attacks..

I really really agree. I just don’t notice the cost increase to whip.

Talons, whip, fossilize, powerlash. Never have a problem landing it.

The range change, utterly unnoticeable. I’m melee I’m trying to get as close as possible because I weave a light attack with every lash. 5 meters? I’m trying to fight at ONE meter.

As for an execute? Who needs one. I’m running spinners Alteration Mastery, DW Destro with engulfing and ele Drain. Who needs an execute. Damage is my execute. Whip is my execute. Would be even better spinners juliano lol.

ak_pvp

JumpmanLane wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Integral1900 wrote: »

As a stamina dk it would be nice not to have to keep chugging magica potions, litteraly all the fun stuff is magic with a few uninspiring ones turned into stamina.

For example, we have green vomit breath, a fairly useless skill I haven’t bothered with since I realised it’s tiny area and garbage game code misses most of the mobs (and it doesn’t make that nice metallic cracking noise anymore when you hit something with it) The skill is useless, why get a tank to apply the major armour debuf when a stam sorc with hurricane, night mother’s and a boat load of crit can plaster the whole battlefield with it?

There are no stamin heals for the class except the pathetic little dribble from the two handed buff and the little bit from using ultimates (whose supply of resources is always disappointing) pvp may love it but in a dungeon with a fake healer, fake tank and a hard mode boss on the rampage that heal doesn’t mean squat!

Most of all the stamina version of the class just seems to have been stripped of all the fun. Ultimates used to be able to dam near fill my resource bars, now I get more out of a trash potion! They stripped that awesome flaming aura and now we just have that stupid flaming disco ball with it’s dreadful ai. They turned the awesome fire abilities into these rubbish poison ones! So what if they do good damage... I don’t care.... I built this class to watch my fire wreathed greatsword send foes flying through the air while a flaming force of nature burned them to ash. If you want poison go be a nightblade, poison is an assassins tool, it’s not befitting a mighty armoured inferno!

TBH, Engulfing is not great at all. Very hard to land.

Regarding the "good" skills of mDK compared to stam DK, there's only one, whip, and is currently crap at least in PvP. IMHO it has never been a good skill either (very clunky and slow, now it's even dodgeable).

The rest is just the same for mDK and sDK, with the sole exception of igneous weapons

I don’t have trouble landing engulfing flames and it’s cheap enough to double cast if you miss. If you pressure any fool dumb enough to enter melee combat, engulfing and whip hit HARD.

Engulfing is def a better choice than talons with everyone popping immovables etc.

Talons and roots aren't affected by immovables. And its pretty useful. Engulfing it potentially strong, but still is silly to land though, so I don't slot it. Its better this patch since people can't 100% FM, so I use it for proccing whip and costing someone a GCD.

JumpmanLane

Xvorg wrote: »

@Quantum_V

I have some concerns regarding PvP. I tried the patch and it's simply the patch I've liked the least.

The good things:

- Ash cloud is amazing now. It can easily set a landmark on DK healing. On PvP and paired with springs is quite helpful. You can save a guy from being killed and turn the fight on his favor just with that combo. I imagine that in PvE it's even better.

- The shield of Hardened is interesting. Not OP as I thought at the begining, but it cal help a Tank in PVE. In PVP maybe tanks or stam chars can take more advantage of it.

The bad things.

- The sustain has become worse than ever due to the lash change. I even dropped lash in favor of my full lit heavy attack build

- The range decrease in whip was a very hard move. IDK why now a whip has the same range that a sword, it makes no sense. 8 mts was OK. I suppose the extra range on stam DK is more helpful.

- Shields and range are almost mandatory in mDK now. I know it is how the meta has switched. Playing melee DK against a group of archers is painful. And here I want to be a little more extensive: the change on dodgeroll has impacted badly on magicka builds:

Since snipe takes around one second channel, you can easily dodge the first arrow, but the second will hit on you for sure. Then it comes the problem of befoul, not only because it decreases you healing. If you are a melee DK in light armor, it also impacts on your shields. So you can't dodge roll as before to avoid the snipes, neither use a shield or a heal efficiently, and that's even without considering soldier of anguish. I imagine that magsorc, magblades and magplars have similar issues, but they have ways of avoiding the dmg, escaping of it or a purge. Sure, wings could help, but the big problem with wings is the fact that only reflect 4 projectiles unless you spam them and we all know wings are not cheap. On the other hand, lit staff has become the best friend for mDK again. Paired with molten armaments and used against those archers in medium will kill them like npcs. Just make sure to drop a shock reach before. It is nost the funniest build you can get out there, but it is a solid one with very low requirements (I use mine with skoria, knight slayer and Torug's).

A solution could be to get rid of the cost increase after dodge roll, but I'm afraid it would bring back rollers. Another solution could be to get rid of the befoul star. Considering that Anguish is a set that negates healing and that a group of snipers using that set can easily deal with anyone in Cyro. Maybe the proc should be applied as a debuff, so archers cannot just spam attacks to lock down melee and magicka builds.

Things I disliked:

Bridges and milegates have lost their fun. Now that can be destroyed they are just a magnet for zergs. One of the thing's I liked about Alessia's bridge was the option to cross to the other side just under the bridge. Now that's almost impossible. Once the bridge has been destroyed, one of the factions can just turtle at the other side, with siege and snipers. There's zero strategy on that and it is a way to protect your faction resources without even playing the game. The only way to reach the other shore is just zerg all the way.

The locations of the new outpost are weird. 2 of them are on EP territory, loking towards Ghartok and Chim. That makes Farra and KC way easier to get for DC and AD than before. Yeah, I know Crops and Bruma are easy to access, but Bruma is quite far from Warden, so IDK why they did it that way.

That's all. I think my time in Cyro is done. Don't get me wrong, I killed a lot of guys there just using full heavy attacks with a shock staff, but the game has become more frustrating and less fun that it was at the beginning. Everyone seems to run an agenda of what they want and nobody seems to care about the game itself. Sure, templars got some buffs, but seeing guys that were stamblades last patch trying to run a templar just showcases how pathetic this community has become.

Dude you need to come duel your buddy Zalgen some more. He got us (his lil army of MagDk’s in light armor damage sets, (Though I run Alteration Mastery).

Whip at 5 meters? I always fought like it was at ONE METER. Just don’t notice the change. Whips new cost? It’s like just over 1000 with Alteration Mastery. Don’t notice the Change.

Glyphmeta snipe spammers? Wings is semi spammable. Melee combat? Ramp up the damage. DW Destro, Spinners, engulfing flames, ele Drain and a HARD whip. Lol. Save those dodge rolls for an initial one when those fools rush in trying to land a rending. Then dance on those fools. It’s like a ballet, only with BLOOD!

The glyphmeta makes people SLOPPY. No combos, no cc setups. They rush in and slip up.

I’m loving Magdk right now. I was thinking of running this Destro Restro gank build Zal came up with if things were op broken with the glyphcrap but nah...glyphmeta is a crutch to be exploited. Great players don’t run that crap. They don’t need to. Crap players do and they get reckt.

Xvorg

JumpmanLane wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Integral1900 wrote: »

As a stamina dk it would be nice not to have to keep chugging magica potions, litteraly all the fun stuff is magic with a few uninspiring ones turned into stamina.

For example, we have green vomit breath, a fairly useless skill I haven’t bothered with since I realised it’s tiny area and garbage game code misses most of the mobs (and it doesn’t make that nice metallic cracking noise anymore when you hit something with it) The skill is useless, why get a tank to apply the major armour debuf when a stam sorc with hurricane, night mother’s and a boat load of crit can plaster the whole battlefield with it?

There are no stamin heals for the class except the pathetic little dribble from the two handed buff and the little bit from using ultimates (whose supply of resources is always disappointing) pvp may love it but in a dungeon with a fake healer, fake tank and a hard mode boss on the rampage that heal doesn’t mean squat!

Most of all the stamina version of the class just seems to have been stripped of all the fun. Ultimates used to be able to dam near fill my resource bars, now I get more out of a trash potion! They stripped that awesome flaming aura and now we just have that stupid flaming disco ball with it’s dreadful ai. They turned the awesome fire abilities into these rubbish poison ones! So what if they do good damage... I don’t care.... I built this class to watch my fire wreathed greatsword send foes flying through the air while a flaming force of nature burned them to ash. If you want poison go be a nightblade, poison is an assassins tool, it’s not befitting a mighty armoured inferno!

TBH, Engulfing is not great at all. Very hard to land.

Regarding the "good" skills of mDK compared to stam DK, there's only one, whip, and is currently crap at least in PvP. IMHO it has never been a good skill either (very clunky and slow, now it's even dodgeable).

The rest is just the same for mDK and sDK, with the sole exception of igneous weapons

I don’t have trouble landing engulfing flames and it’s cheap enough to double cast if you miss. If you pressure any fool dumb enough to enter melee combat, engulfing and whip hit HARD.

Engulfing is def a better choice than talons with everyone popping immovables etc.

PvE?

Because in PvE is a good skill, in PvE is borderline useless

Xvorg

JumpmanLane wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

@Quantum_V

I have some concerns regarding PvP. I tried the patch and it's simply the patch I've liked the least.

The good things:

- Ash cloud is amazing now. It can easily set a landmark on DK healing. On PvP and paired with springs is quite helpful. You can save a guy from being killed and turn the fight on his favor just with that combo. I imagine that in PvE it's even better.

- The shield of Hardened is interesting. Not OP as I thought at the begining, but it cal help a Tank in PVE. In PVP maybe tanks or stam chars can take more advantage of it.

The bad things.

- The sustain has become worse than ever due to the lash change. I even dropped lash in favor of my full lit heavy attack build

- The range decrease in whip was a very hard move. IDK why now a whip has the same range that a sword, it makes no sense. 8 mts was OK. I suppose the extra range on stam DK is more helpful.

- Shields and range are almost mandatory in mDK now. I know it is how the meta has switched. Playing melee DK against a group of archers is painful. And here I want to be a little more extensive: the change on dodgeroll has impacted badly on magicka builds:

Since snipe takes around one second channel, you can easily dodge the first arrow, but the second will hit on you for sure. Then it comes the problem of befoul, not only because it decreases you healing. If you are a melee DK in light armor, it also impacts on your shields. So you can't dodge roll as before to avoid the snipes, neither use a shield or a heal efficiently, and that's even without considering soldier of anguish. I imagine that magsorc, magblades and magplars have similar issues, but they have ways of avoiding the dmg, escaping of it or a purge. Sure, wings could help, but the big problem with wings is the fact that only reflect 4 projectiles unless you spam them and we all know wings are not cheap. On the other hand, lit staff has become the best friend for mDK again. Paired with molten armaments and used against those archers in medium will kill them like npcs. Just make sure to drop a shock reach before. It is nost the funniest build you can get out there, but it is a solid one with very low requirements (I use mine with skoria, knight slayer and Torug's).

A solution could be to get rid of the cost increase after dodge roll, but I'm afraid it would bring back rollers. Another solution could be to get rid of the befoul star. Considering that Anguish is a set that negates healing and that a group of snipers using that set can easily deal with anyone in Cyro. Maybe the proc should be applied as a debuff, so archers cannot just spam attacks to lock down melee and magicka builds.

Things I disliked:

Bridges and milegates have lost their fun. Now that can be destroyed they are just a magnet for zergs. One of the thing's I liked about Alessia's bridge was the option to cross to the other side just under the bridge. Now that's almost impossible. Once the bridge has been destroyed, one of the factions can just turtle at the other side, with siege and snipers. There's zero strategy on that and it is a way to protect your faction resources without even playing the game. The only way to reach the other shore is just zerg all the way.

The locations of the new outpost are weird. 2 of them are on EP territory, loking towards Ghartok and Chim. That makes Farra and KC way easier to get for DC and AD than before. Yeah, I know Crops and Bruma are easy to access, but Bruma is quite far from Warden, so IDK why they did it that way.

That's all. I think my time in Cyro is done. Don't get me wrong, I killed a lot of guys there just using full heavy attacks with a shock staff, but the game has become more frustrating and less fun that it was at the beginning. Everyone seems to run an agenda of what they want and nobody seems to care about the game itself. Sure, templars got some buffs, but seeing guys that were stamblades last patch trying to run a templar just showcases how pathetic this community has become.

Dude you need to come duel your buddy Zalgen some more. He got us (his lil army of MagDk’s in light armor damage sets, (Though I run Alteration Mastery).

Whip at 5 meters? I always fought like it was at ONE METER. Just don’t notice the change. Whips new cost? It’s like just over 1000 with Alteration Mastery. Don’t notice the Change.

Glyphmeta snipe spammers? Wings is semi spammable. Melee combat? Ramp up the damage. DW Destro, Spinners, engulfing flames, ele Drain and a HARD whip. Lol. Save those dodge rolls for an initial one when those fools rush in trying to land a rending. Then dance on those fools. It’s like a ballet, only with BLOOD!

The glyphmeta makes people SLOPPY. No combos, no cc setups. They rush in and slip up.

I’m loving Magdk right now. I was thinking of running this Destro Restro gank build Zal came up with if things were op broken with the glyphcrap but nah...glyphmeta is a crutch to be exploited. Great players don’t run that crap. They don’t need to. Crap players do and they get reckt.

Any Dk is strong in duels. Open world is a different thing.

Good for you if you think glyph meta should be exploited, I just disagree with that in the same way as I disagree with the way you envision mDK. I'm pretty sure you run the standard BSW + Zaan/Skoria + Spinner and do believe you are killing people with skill, without noticing that all the work is done by you sets.

Keep on playing that way and make uncle Wrobel happy. At the end that's what they one, less criticism and more zombie DKs

IZZEFlameLash

You know, you cannot notice range change because it's a net 1 meter change but you will definitely notice it when you are for whatever reason, re-levelling your DK. No one is really complaining about it in reality just that the fact that they decided to nerf DK further in any shape or form.

Power Lash cost change is pretty significant. You are basically looking at 3k spammable right now. I don't slot Engulfing because for a conal AoE, it sure does miss a lot for what it does. I'd rather have an AoE heal in form of Inhale in place of it.

But I guess I'd love to see your gameplay to see what you do and where you come from.

JumpmanLane

Xvorg wrote: »

JumpmanLane wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

@Quantum_V

I have some concerns regarding PvP. I tried the patch and it's simply the patch I've liked the least.

The good things:

- Ash cloud is amazing now. It can easily set a landmark on DK healing. On PvP and paired with springs is quite helpful. You can save a guy from being killed and turn the fight on his favor just with that combo. I imagine that in PvE it's even better.

- The shield of Hardened is interesting. Not OP as I thought at the begining, but it cal help a Tank in PVE. In PVP maybe tanks or stam chars can take more advantage of it.

The bad things.

- The sustain has become worse than ever due to the lash change. I even dropped lash in favor of my full lit heavy attack build

- The range decrease in whip was a very hard move. IDK why now a whip has the same range that a sword, it makes no sense. 8 mts was OK. I suppose the extra range on stam DK is more helpful.

- Shields and range are almost mandatory in mDK now. I know it is how the meta has switched. Playing melee DK against a group of archers is painful. And here I want to be a little more extensive: the change on dodgeroll has impacted badly on magicka builds:

Since snipe takes around one second channel, you can easily dodge the first arrow, but the second will hit on you for sure. Then it comes the problem of befoul, not only because it decreases you healing. If you are a melee DK in light armor, it also impacts on your shields. So you can't dodge roll as before to avoid the snipes, neither use a shield or a heal efficiently, and that's even without considering soldier of anguish. I imagine that magsorc, magblades and magplars have similar issues, but they have ways of avoiding the dmg, escaping of it or a purge. Sure, wings could help, but the big problem with wings is the fact that only reflect 4 projectiles unless you spam them and we all know wings are not cheap. On the other hand, lit staff has become the best friend for mDK again. Paired with molten armaments and used against those archers in medium will kill them like npcs. Just make sure to drop a shock reach before. It is nost the funniest build you can get out there, but it is a solid one with very low requirements (I use mine with skoria, knight slayer and Torug's).

A solution could be to get rid of the cost increase after dodge roll, but I'm afraid it would bring back rollers. Another solution could be to get rid of the befoul star. Considering that Anguish is a set that negates healing and that a group of snipers using that set can easily deal with anyone in Cyro. Maybe the proc should be applied as a debuff, so archers cannot just spam attacks to lock down melee and magicka builds.

Things I disliked:

Bridges and milegates have lost their fun. Now that can be destroyed they are just a magnet for zergs. One of the thing's I liked about Alessia's bridge was the option to cross to the other side just under the bridge. Now that's almost impossible. Once the bridge has been destroyed, one of the factions can just turtle at the other side, with siege and snipers. There's zero strategy on that and it is a way to protect your faction resources without even playing the game. The only way to reach the other shore is just zerg all the way.

The locations of the new outpost are weird. 2 of them are on EP territory, loking towards Ghartok and Chim. That makes Farra and KC way easier to get for DC and AD than before. Yeah, I know Crops and Bruma are easy to access, but Bruma is quite far from Warden, so IDK why they did it that way.

That's all. I think my time in Cyro is done. Don't get me wrong, I killed a lot of guys there just using full heavy attacks with a shock staff, but the game has become more frustrating and less fun that it was at the beginning. Everyone seems to run an agenda of what they want and nobody seems to care about the game itself. Sure, templars got some buffs, but seeing guys that were stamblades last patch trying to run a templar just showcases how pathetic this community has become.

Dude you need to come duel your buddy Zalgen some more. He got us (his lil army of MagDk’s in light armor damage sets, (Though I run Alteration Mastery).

Whip at 5 meters? I always fought like it was at ONE METER. Just don’t notice the change. Whips new cost? It’s like just over 1000 with Alteration Mastery. Don’t notice the Change.

Glyphmeta snipe spammers? Wings is semi spammable. Melee combat? Ramp up the damage. DW Destro, Spinners, engulfing flames, ele Drain and a HARD whip. Lol. Save those dodge rolls for an initial one when those fools rush in trying to land a rending. Then dance on those fools. It’s like a ballet, only with BLOOD!

The glyphmeta makes people SLOPPY. No combos, no cc setups. They rush in and slip up.

I’m loving Magdk right now. I was thinking of running this Destro Restro gank build Zal came up with if things were op broken with the glyphcrap but nah...glyphmeta is a crutch to be exploited. Great players don’t run that crap. They don’t need to. Crap players do and they get reckt.

Any Dk is strong in duels. Open world is a different thing.

Good for you if you think glyph meta should be exploited, I just disagree with that in the same way as I disagree with the way you envision mDK. I'm pretty sure you run the standard BSW + Zaan/Skoria + Spinner and do believe you are killing people with skill, without noticing that all the work is done by you sets.

Keep on playing that way and make uncle Wrobel happy. At the end that's what they one, less criticism and more zombie DKs

Nope. The run spinners Alteration Mastery. Skoria sure, but sometimes 1 Domihaus, 1 Bone Pirate. And by exploit glyphmeta, I mean kill the crappy players using it.

I run dual wield Destro crusher on the off hand, berserker on the main hand, flame damage on the Destro. . I’m pretty sure the light attacks I weave in which proc my glyphs are nothing like a StamDK could proc with rending slashes etc...

Engulfing is awesome in PvP nowadays, particularly with so many people running straight at you in order to reach melee range to proc their glyphs. You may have to double cast it; but it’s cheap enough. Just land it and folks die or run or LOS. You’re just gimping yourself with talons with all the effective ways to remove them.

BlackMadara

@IZZEFlameLash While engulfing is difficult to bit sometimes, the damage increase it gives is MASSIVE, even compared to the burst that Breath gives you. I've compared both side by side. While Breath is better in outnumbered fights, its cost to damage isnt really worth it until you have 3 opponents around you. Even then, the heal is pretty weak. If you get used to engulfing's hitbox, it's a great spell.

@Xvorg What is your setup? How does it compare to your set up anand performance on any other classes?

@JumpmanLane Even if talons root is disabled by the opponent, I find minor main to be amazing. And it also helps in repositioning in a 1vX. Not everybody runs root removal.

Mister_DMC

I'm happy for the changes in murkmire for Stam DK and tank at least but I think one more change would help alot of issues. Igneous weapons is useless in its current form. Molten armaments is still good for heavy attack build and mag dks. My suggestion is have igneous buff light attacks akin to bound armaments for be specs, but only as a long duration buff so keeping it up will proc the minor brutality and actually add DPS.

JumpmanLane

Everyone runs root removal lol. I run ele drain, spinners, and engulfing ain’t that hard to land. You’re just gimping yourself right running talons.

Marcusito

I slot Rapids for mobility. Works just fine.

Dragon blood seems fine.

A few more stamina options would be nice though. I like the poison damage theme for Stam DK’s while you have fire for Magicka.

I’d just make the DK’s the DoT class. Maybe add in a bleed or two for a blood knight type or add a another poison option. They just need to be made attractive without an execute.

I’ve played DK since launch and enjoy it. I miss the Keep Leap though. That was one niche thing DK could do that was fun.

TrinityBreaker

Marcusito wrote: »

I’d just make the DK’s the DoT class. Maybe add in a bleed or two for a blood knight type or add a another poison option. They just need to be made attractive without an execute.

Just curious, why would make DK the DoT class? Why leave it as the only class without an execute?

John_Falstaff

@Marcusito , the times when game had a place for "stand your ground" class is long gone. ESO loves mobility and burst nowadays; I don't think 'DoT class' would be in much demand. DK is already as far from bursty as it gets.

Marcusito

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@Marcusito , the times when game had a place for "stand your ground" class is long gone. ESO loves mobility and burst nowadays; I don't think 'DoT class' would be in much demand. DK is already as far from bursty as it gets.

I don’t disagree. Just wish every dps class wouldn’t be a class with an execute.

Marcusito

TrinityBreaker wrote: »

Marcusito wrote: »

I’d just make the DK’s the DoT class. Maybe add in a bleed or two for a blood knight type or add a another poison option. They just need to be made attractive without an execute.

Just curious, why would make DK the DoT class? Why leave it as the only class without an execute?

Then why have different classes at all for dps roles.

Ragnarock41

TrinityBreaker wrote: »

Marcusito wrote: »

I’d just make the DK’s the DoT class. Maybe add in a bleed or two for a blood knight type or add a another poison option. They just need to be made attractive without an execute.

Just curious, why would make DK the DoT class? Why leave it as the only class without an execute?

to be honest all stamina classes have access to three different weapon executes(steel nado, executioner, poison injection. Combining poison injection with one of the other two is already very potent and effective.).

Without going into much detail, there is no reason for a class execute, although I would really like to have something that helps stamina Dk on igneous weapons.

IZZEFlameLash

BlackMadara wrote: »

@IZZEFlameLash While engulfing is difficult to bit sometimes, the damage increase it gives is MASSIVE, even compared to the burst that Breath gives you. I've compared both side by side. While Breath is better in outnumbered fights, its cost to damage isnt really worth it until you have 3 opponents around you. Even then, the heal is pretty weak. If you get used to engulfing's hitbox, it's a great spell.

@Xvorg What is your setup? How does it compare to your set up anand performance on any other classes?

@JumpmanLane Even if talons root is disabled by the opponent, I find minor main to be amazing. And it also helps in repositioning in a 1vX. Not everybody runs root removal.

I find it difficult to justify Engulfing Flames slot. Especially because for some reason, in solo or group, I am always the favorite pinata target. Must be my hotness (ba dum tss). I will always slot it for burst heal and a bit of magicka cost return. For duel, I'd rather have Inner Light or FoO/Cauterize. But that is down to personal preference. It being hard to land despite being a conal AoE also big part. But if you like it, good for you.

BlackMadara

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

BlackMadara wrote: »

@IZZEFlameLash While engulfing is difficult to bit sometimes, the damage increase it gives is MASSIVE, even compared to the burst that Breath gives you. I've compared both side by side. While Breath is better in outnumbered fights, its cost to damage isnt really worth it until you have 3 opponents around you. Even then, the heal is pretty weak. If you get used to engulfing's hitbox, it's a great spell.

@Xvorg What is your setup? How does it compare to your set up anand performance on any other classes?

@JumpmanLane Even if talons root is disabled by the opponent, I find minor main to be amazing. And it also helps in repositioning in a 1vX. Not everybody runs root removal.

I find it difficult to justify Engulfing Flames slot. Especially because for some reason, in solo or group, I am always the favorite pinata target. Must be my hotness (ba dum tss). I will always slot it for burst heal and a bit of magicka cost return. For duel, I'd rather have Inner Light or FoO/Cauterize. But that is down to personal preference. It being hard to land despite being a conal AoE also big part. But if you like it, good for you.

A burst heal is definitely a viable alternative imo. As for slotting another damage option, if unpurged, you will always get more damage out of engulfing vs any other option. Be that FoO, Breath, inner light, etc. But hey, if missing the gigantic fire spout on people causes you to pull your hair out, by all means keep those beautiful locks.

Nser

currently Magicka dk in (pvp) is the WORST class with limited skills, buffs, debuffs. passives, the class is left so far behind other classes outdated damage sustain heal basically everything.
- major/minor debuffs/buffs compeering with nbs warden etc.. just sucks
-medium armor with shuffle just so much tanker then heavy armor so no more tanking in this game with poisons, sload, enchants ..etc so we cant scape we cant tank just nothing.
-Mdk sustain is just so sucks compering to all classes also they put cost on power lash and dk already have bad sustain everyone know ..
-no execute...
-lack of good passives other classes have increase damage health w/e while slotting skills what do we have nothing no Major/minor Heroism
-magicka skills cost freaky much
-MDK cant go everything dps damage sustain as same as other classes so He must sacrifices but what about other classes
to many bad things but mdk is not enjoyable anymore I just play one class mdk pvp since beta..

RIP

sorry for my English

Xvorg

BlackMadara wrote: »

@IZZEFlameLash While engulfing is difficult to bit sometimes, the damage increase it gives is MASSIVE, even compared to the burst that Breath gives you. I've compared both side by side. While Breath is better in outnumbered fights, its cost to damage isnt really worth it until you have 3 opponents around you. Even then, the heal is pretty weak. If you get used to engulfing's hitbox, it's a great spell.

@Xvorg What is your setup? How does it compare to your set up anand performance on any other classes?

@JumpmanLane Even if talons root is disabled by the opponent, I find minor main to be amazing. And it also helps in repositioning in a 1vX. Not everybody runs root removal.

Last time I played, i used a full heavy lit staff build, oriented to oblivion dmg (torug's infused + knight slayer) and skoria proc. It's a good setup focused on doing dmg with the least resorces available wjile using the same resources for mitigation and healing (my set up had 1.2k magicka recovery). Though I think it's strong for a DK, I can see how other classes could do similar or even better:

1- Sorc: can reach similar numbers, has the option of overload, and synergyzes well with lit dmg. For mitigation they have a class shield (with DK I'm forced to go anullement). Also it reaches more spell dmg for slotting sorc skills.

2- NB: Though it doesn't have major sorc, it has minor minor berserk that not only increases it's dmg with skills, but also skoria proc AND oblivion dmg. Mitigation comes in the form of cloak. They also have a ranged execute and a skill that refunds magicka by doing dmg with heavy attacks. And they can get a much better magicka pool just by slotting siph strikes

3- Templar: Similar to DK in terms of mobility, doesn't have either major sorc neitrhe major berserk, but it do have backlash and 2 great skills to proc skoria such as vamp bane and JB. Minor sorc also helps to put moar dmg

4- Warden. Unfortunately I can't se how warden would be better than the classes above, but they do have Crystal shield (which is an amazing tool).

The only reason why that set up works on DK is because of the extra dmg of molten armamaments, but the extra dmg in PvP is nerfed by BS and mitigation, so the killing is done through oblivion dmg, From that PoV, NB should be much stronger than DK, despite their HA are weaker

BxBourne

Mag DK PVP:
First I want to say I like the fact being a mag dk is a toon that requires skills and challenges you to play at your best, keep it that way i think everyone enjoys and needs the challenge and because of this its the only reason I and others play dk and nothing else, when it becomes easy you lose interest and will stop playing this game. To that effect don't ever make the game easy to attain everything and all the glory but reward when it's due. The main issue with dk is that it doesn't reward you enough, I can do everything right which is already hard to do and still end up dead. I believe the identity of a DK is that it is the toon that requires the most skill and it is the most challenging to play and if you play the toon to perfection you get rewarded. The only problem like I mentioned above is were not rewarded enough to make it enjoyable playing as one. Keep the challenge of being a dk but reward us more for doing the right things so we can ultimately get that kill and survive and it will bring the glory and balance back to DK. So here are my pain points and what I think are two Great solutions/ideas.

1. We need to be able to execute.
So my solution/idea will be not to give us an execute ability per se but reward us by giving certain abilities the ability to execute. So for example if I manage to get your health down to execute range decrease the cost of certain abilities and or increase it's damage so I can finish off the opponent. And Or increase my ult generation or the damage my ult does the longer I stay alive in a fight. Therefore we get rewarded for doing things right and still keep the DK identity. It's way too hard to finish off a player as a mag dk you whether die fast or die after a 10 min fight, finishing is too tough. Look at all the assist a mag dk gets bg's that says it all.

2. Sustaining magic and health is tough.
I think we can improve sustaining on a dk by improving certain passives and that way we still keep our identity . Dk passives just don't reward us enough for the hard work to stay alive or finish the fight.

zParallaxz

BxBourne wrote: »

Mag DK PVP:
First I want to say I like the fact being a mag dk is a toon that requires skills and challenges you to play at your best, keep it that way i think everyone enjoys and needs the challenge and because of this its the only reason I and others play dk and nothing else, when it becomes easy you lose interest and will stop playing this game. To that effect don't ever make the game easy to attain everything and all the glory but reward when it's due. The main issue with dk is that it doesn't reward you enough, I can do everything right which is already hard to do and still end up dead. I believe the identity of a DK is that it is the toon that requires the most skill and it is the most challenging to play and if you play the toon to perfection you get rewarded. The only problem like I mentioned above is were not rewarded enough to make it enjoyable playing as one. Keep the challenge of being a dk but reward us more for doing the right things so we can ultimately get that kill and survive and it will bring the glory and balance back to DK. So here are my pain points and what I think are two Great solutions/ideas.

1. We need to be able to execute.
So my solution/idea will be not to give us an execute ability per se but reward us by giving certain abilities the ability to execute. So for example if I manage to get your health down to execute range decrease the cost of certain abilities and or increase it's damage so I can finish off the opponent. And Or increase my ult generation or the damage my ult does the longer I stay alive in a fight. Therefore we get rewarded for doing things right and still keep the DK identity. It's way too hard to finish off a player as a mag dk you whether die fast or die after a 10 min fight, finishing is too tough. Look at all the assist a mag dk gets bg's that says it all.

2. Sustaining magic and health is tough.
I think we can improve sustaining on a dk by improving certain passives and that way we still keep our identity . Dk passives just don't reward us enough for the hard work to stay alive or finish the fight.

I couldn’t agree anymore, I play on Xbox Na and I’ve played dk when I first started, both mag and stam with mag being the latter. The class back then was rewarding if you played it right I.e setting up your opponent to dodge roll repeatedly only to leap him when he doesn’t expect it. The same thing went for power lash when it went through dodge roll. The game now has very little counter play in terms of a dks perspective. I used to be able to bash ( on both stam and magdk) to interrupt someone dark dealing and now you can’t bash someone who’s cc immune. You used to be able to powerlash stam players who didn’t want to stop dodge rolling but now it’s dodgeable, foward momentum makes it near impossible to land a powerlash, and the cost is going to be increased. Dks need a overhaul and I don’t know why Zos keeps skipping over the problem patch after patch. Why the hell is engulfing flames still hard to land in damn 2018. What was the point in making burning embers dodgeable. Why can a nightblade be able to cloak active attacks by simply block casting cloak, and yes this works against multiple skills like leap, whip, and meteor. The dk class as a whole has the most risk of any class in the game yet Zos keeps removing counter play that benefits them.

Beffagorn

Feedback about Stamdk PvP.

I feel these are the main Issues with the class:

Sustain.
Lack of Stamina Morphs
No way to cleanse ourselves of Dots/Debuffs.
Not appealing at all for any kind of group play.
Limited Kit.

Solutions:

Spiked Armor replaced by a new stamina based morph, Corrosive Shell.

Converts into a Stamina ability and deals Poison Damage. Cleanses up to 4 harmful effects from yourself. 3 seconds after the ability has been activated, you release a poison nova that deals small Poison Damage has an increased chance to apply the Poisoned status effect based on the amount of harmful effects removed. Costs 1000 Stamina.

The ability sinergizes well with the passives World in Ruin and Combustion. It directly affects 3 of weaknesses the class suffers from, and i think is in line with other similiar abilities in the game. The damage nova can also be lined up for bursts.

Choking Talons reworked into a new stamina based morph.

Converts into a Stamina Ability and deals Poison Damage. Applies minor maim. Costs 3200-3400 stamina.

A simple change that makes StamDKs more appealing in group play and expands our limited kit. shouldn't have any repercussion for PvE tanks.

Elder Dragon.

Now also increases Stamina and Magicka Recovery, by a smaller amount than Health Recovery. Increased range on instant melee attack component removed.

The range increase component never made sense to me. Neither Magdks nor Stamdks need it, imo. The increased Recovery is badly needed for both MagDKs and StamDKs