Masel wrote: »

To all the negativity here: changes like last patch won't go through unfiltered anymore.

We see what is going to happen, give feedback and since we get to see stuff before it is even coded, we can have an impact before actual decisions are made.

We already had a few rounds of feedback and alterations based on it to make changes as good as possible for the health of the game.

So, since last months there's another instance that combat changes will go through, and we hope that will make the impact you guys are hoping for And prevent sweeping changes that are uncalled for, since it saves effort on ZoS and frustration on the playerbase.

I will believe it when I see it. ZOS had said a lot of things in the past like this.

Arato wrote: »

I hope that they DON'T make "every race equally capable at every role" it kind of destroys the elder scrolls feel that the best casters were Altmer, Breton, Dunmer, best archers were Bosmer, best melee were Redguard and Khajiit and Orc, best stealthers were Bosmer and Khajiit, etc.

Only thing I'd maybe like to see is balance between the races traditionally chosen for certain roles like with magicka DPS Breton lags behind Altmer and Dunmer, and for Stamina Bosmer lags behind Redguard and Orc, and Nord lags behind Argonian and Imperial as a tank.

@Arato the problem with that is there are not downsides to any of the Racials, other than the absence of an alternate Race's passives.

Nord and Dunmer, for instance, while having additional mitigation to certain damage types would arguably be weaker to the opposing damage type.

If there were benefits and detriments to Racial passives, there would be less likely to be a handful of BiS choices.

In the standalone's, there were equally upsides and downsides to gender, but since Strength and Acrobatics/Athletics isn't a thing in the online version, these wouldn't apply.

There doesn't need to be equal capability, but there certainly shouldn't be the obvious imbalances that exist in the current state.

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

I noticed a certain regularity / trend when it comes to patches so I would not be surprised if "new approach" is the old approach with different name slapped on it:

ZOS nerfs stuff to take away our progression / power in the name of balance and adds more CP cap to have a feeling that we actually gain power (when in reality our characters lose their power). This was mostly noticeable in Morrowind update when they nerfed a lot of CP & sustain. But it also happened in the past. Hybrids are not a "thing" any longer, Sap tanks are pretty much dead (the most fun I had in a game as a NB tank) etc.

Well... Yes.

I know what people expect... buff, buff, buff. Another famous game did that and backed themselves into a corner. They eventually had to fix that, and it was a major earthquake in the game when they did.

So, yes, they need to take something from over-performing parts of the game. I expect that this will continue.

I think that there is no doubt that some people will be totally dismayed by what they are going to roll out in the next major Update. The pass over races will probably decimate builds. Naturally, the builds are only "decimated" from the perspective of the people using the build. Everyone not invested in that particular build will wonder what all the fuss is about.

• When selecting a race, players should have multiple effective options for any given gameplay role.
  
• The combat power provided by each race should be more equalized.
  
• Players should feel a stronger sense of power progression through racial passives as they level up.
  
• The unique feeling and flavor each race provides should be retained and enhanced where possible, and remain faithful to established lore.

This scares the hell out of me. This sounds like racial homogenization. The last thing I want is racial homogenization in this game. I really want race to be more than a cosmetic decision, but I fear that the "unique flavor" will be cosmetic and not reflect any game play considerations.

I want a mix of races so that some are better at one attribute than the others, including health. Yes, I am one of the crazy ones that would actually like to see them refactor the game so that there are three attributes Stamina, Magicka, and Heath, instead of the two we have today.

I want there to be races that are good for tanking, but not as good for healing, and have other races that are better at healing than tanking. Differences are good.

I expect ZOS to homogenize the races simply because they probably have an analysis showing that people pick the wrong class for what they want to do, get frustrated, and leave. If that happens, then it would probably be better if the race was just a cosmetic choice, like the rest of the character appearance, and put everything into the class and class skills. Simplify the combat part of the game down to class and item sets and leave the rest to cosmetics. I will be very sad if this happen.

I am preparing myself for being quite sad with what they come out with in 2019. But, they aren't asking me. I'm not a Racial Representative.

As I read over the different posts here, I can't help but feel that this thread seems to have worked pretty well in distracting everyone from all the various issues raised elsewhere in the forums to focus primarily on racial passives, which is something I rarely saw anyone voice an opinion over (aside from a few races that may overperform).

How long will we need to wait on a follow up? Will it be the beginning of the year before we have any indication that this wasn't just a post to patronize us through the holiday season? On the surface, that's really what it seems like, just like the 'we're looking into Cyrodiil performance' offhand remarks that ZOS staff have occasionally made over the years (with only worsening performance to show for it).

If it really takes 2 months (ie into the new year) for them to articulate the vision they have for the road ahead, I have serious concerns about the people in charge of planning all of this. These things should already exist, and just need to be modified for public consumption. If they don't exist, what were they even working towards with the past few rounds of updates?

I would love to seem some morphs so that Race has some more varity to it. Not so far as to completely separate the Passive from the race but something to make Race a little more flexable. For example, for Bosmer

Acrobat
Increases your experience gain with the Bow skill line by 15%. Decreases your fall damage taken by 10%.

Y'ffre's Endurance III
Increases your Stamina Recovery by 21%.
New morph - Increase your Health, Magicka, and Stamina recovery by 7%

Resist Affliction III
Increases your Max Stamina by 6% and Poison and Disease Resistance by 1485. Gain immunity to the poisoned and diseased status effects.

Stealthy III New Name - Light Footed
Reduces your detection radius in stealth by 3 meters. Increases your damage done while in stealth by 10%.
New morph - Decrease the effectiveness of snares applied to you by 10%


This way Bosmer maintain their Lore, but it also leaves room for the idea that a Bosmer may have chosen to study a particular way of life.
From a game play side, it helps remove Bosmer from being pigeon holed as Stamina Night Blades. If you're not a NB then chose the Snare morph. If you want to play a Bosmer Tank or Mag build, then chose the all stat regen morph.
I would like to seem similar effects for all classes too, even for BiS races for people who want to play them in other roles. Stamina Altmer, Mag Redguard, even Argonian, although they are already really well balance for any role.

lordrichter wrote: »

Sygil05 wrote: »

How long will we need to wait on a follow up? Will it be the beginning of the year before we have any indication that this wasn't just a post to patronize us through the holiday season? On the surface, that's really what it seems like, just like the 'we're looking into Cyrodiil performance' offhand remarks that ZOS staff have occasionally made over the years (with only worsening performance to show for it).

If it really takes 2 months (ie into the new year) for them to articulate the vision they have for the road ahead, I have serious concerns about the people in charge of planning all of this. These things should already exist, and just need to be modified for public consumption. If they don't exist, what were they even working towards with the past few rounds of updates?

They won't articulate the vision until they are ready to transition to QA for the Chapter release. The next we will hear about it will be in the year-end note from Firor and he will talk about it at the executive level. It will be an off-hand remark and mixed in with a bunch of others.

Yes, this should already exist, and it is somewhat alarming what they said. They make it sound like they have been drifting aimlessly through the game design pasture for the last four years. Maybe they have been, and if so, a desperately necessary move to correct it is what I read in this note. Maybe they have not, and what they are doing is going back and cleaning up the plan to reflect changes that have been made since it was conceived.

Now you have me worried that the original post was just a marketing gimmick to improve viewership of ESO Live and to help build hype for the next chapter release...

*except Nords. and as much as I love Nords, they can rot in oblivion if everyone is gonna get nerfed for them

Arato wrote: »

ChunkyCat wrote: »

Khajiits should take less fall damage.

Just saying.

I always thought the bosmer and khajiit 1st passives should have been switched. It was Khajiit that were the better acrobats in the single player games and Bosmer literally have a thing in their culture called right of theft.

I still hope they try to keep some flavor to the races rather than appeasing snowflakes that want to be bosmer mages and somehow be just as good as Dunmer, Altmer, or Bretons at it.

Really, people should look at the races when they choose them, and look at the bonuses, and develop their playstyle around that. Every class has viable magicka, and stamina builds, so they can pick whatever race, whatever class, and adapt.

Arguing for this marxist bs is these people who installed Morrowind on B:\Yourself\ , rolled an Altmer Barbarian and picked up a longsword and then uninstalled after 15 minutes of straight missing claiming this game sucks because all you do is miss when you didn't even try to pick according to skills.

Redguard is head and shoulders above any other stamina race.

The magicka races are in a better spot with all 3 of them receiving the +9-10% magicka passive. Bretons don't receive any elemental damage boost, but that's not a huge DPS loss.

I'm fine with some classes being better suited for stamina while others being better suited for magicka, even though it doesn't make any sense within the lore (Shalidor is a Nord mage, Naryu is a Dummer assassin, etc.). But at least make the races relatively equal at these roles. Altmer vs. Dunmer is well balanced, for example.

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

ChunkyCat wrote: »

Khajiits should take less fall damage.

Just saying.

I always thought the bosmer and khajiit 1st passives should have been switched. It was Khajiit that were the better acrobats in the single player games and Bosmer literally have a thing in their culture called right of theft.

I still hope they try to keep some flavor to the races rather than appeasing snowflakes that want to be bosmer mages and somehow be just as good as Dunmer, Altmer, or Bretons at it.

Really, people should look at the races when they choose them, and look at the bonuses, and develop their playstyle around that. Every class has viable magicka, and stamina builds, so they can pick whatever race, whatever class, and adapt.

Arguing for this marxist bs is these people who installed Morrowind on B:\Yourself\ , rolled an Altmer Barbarian and picked up a longsword and then uninstalled after 15 minutes of straight missing claiming this game sucks because all you do is miss when you didn't even try to pick according to skills.

Redguard is head and shoulders above any other stamina race.

The magicka races are in a better spot with all 3 of them receiving the +9-10% magicka passive. Bretons don't receive any elemental damage boost, but that's not a huge DPS loss.

I'm fine with some classes being better suited for stamina while others being better suited for magicka, even though it doesn't make any sense within the lore (Shalidor is a Nord mage, Naryu is a Dummer assassin, etc.). But at least make the races relatively equal at these roles. Altmer vs. Dunmer is well balanced, for example.

Yeah if they just balance it so that Altmer, Dunmer and Breton all have +10% max magicka and equalish other bonuses that's fine, all 3 races are supposed to be good mages/wizards in lore. With Stamina, Orc, Redguard, and Bosmer/Khajiit should be pretty equal, with Khajiit/Bosmer trading some sustain for stealth and out of stealth burst.

Arato wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

ChunkyCat wrote: »

Khajiits should take less fall damage.

Just saying.

I always thought the bosmer and khajiit 1st passives should have been switched. It was Khajiit that were the better acrobats in the single player games and Bosmer literally have a thing in their culture called right of theft.

I still hope they try to keep some flavor to the races rather than appeasing snowflakes that want to be bosmer mages and somehow be just as good as Dunmer, Altmer, or Bretons at it.

Really, people should look at the races when they choose them, and look at the bonuses, and develop their playstyle around that. Every class has viable magicka, and stamina builds, so they can pick whatever race, whatever class, and adapt.

Arguing for this marxist bs is these people who installed Morrowind on B:\Yourself\ , rolled an Altmer Barbarian and picked up a longsword and then uninstalled after 15 minutes of straight missing claiming this game sucks because all you do is miss when you didn't even try to pick according to skills.

Redguard is head and shoulders above any other stamina race.

The magicka races are in a better spot with all 3 of them receiving the +9-10% magicka passive. Bretons don't receive any elemental damage boost, but that's not a huge DPS loss.

I'm fine with some classes being better suited for stamina while others being better suited for magicka, even though it doesn't make any sense within the lore (Shalidor is a Nord mage, Naryu is a Dummer assassin, etc.). But at least make the races relatively equal at these roles. Altmer vs. Dunmer is well balanced, for example.

Yeah if they just balance it so that Altmer, Dunmer and Breton all have +10% max magicka and equalish other bonuses that's fine, all 3 races are supposed to be good mages/wizards in lore. With Stamina, Orc, Redguard, and Bosmer/Khajiit should be pretty equal, with Khajiit/Bosmer trading some sustain for stealth and out of stealth burst.

that doesn't solve the lack of diversity IMO

Benemime wrote: »

that doesn't solve the lack of diversity IMO

I would rather ZOS not solve any perceived lack of diversity, thank you.

I don't care of there are two or three "go to" races for Magicka, and another couple for Stamina, so long as there is a choice of more than one, and those two groups don't overlap.

I want my racial choice to matter and not just be cookie cutter duplicates of each other where we 'make our own race' using passives and morphs. Not even if those passives and morphs are cleverly named to make us think they are different.

CaliMade wrote: »

all i want is some *** STAM MORPHS FOR STAM DK.

WHY IS THIS TOO MUCH TO ASK FOR?

THIS YES SERIOUSLY! Just something useful! Or just call the stam dk the weapon skill knight!!!!!

Arato wrote: »

Benemime wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

ChunkyCat wrote: »

Khajiits should take less fall damage.

Just saying.

I always thought the bosmer and khajiit 1st passives should have been switched. It was Khajiit that were the better acrobats in the single player games and Bosmer literally have a thing in their culture called right of theft.

I still hope they try to keep some flavor to the races rather than appeasing snowflakes that want to be bosmer mages and somehow be just as good as Dunmer, Altmer, or Bretons at it.

Really, people should look at the races when they choose them, and look at the bonuses, and develop their playstyle around that. Every class has viable magicka, and stamina builds, so they can pick whatever race, whatever class, and adapt.

Arguing for this marxist bs is these people who installed Morrowind on B:\Yourself\ , rolled an Altmer Barbarian and picked up a longsword and then uninstalled after 15 minutes of straight missing claiming this game sucks because all you do is miss when you didn't even try to pick according to skills.

Redguard is head and shoulders above any other stamina race.

The magicka races are in a better spot with all 3 of them receiving the +9-10% magicka passive. Bretons don't receive any elemental damage boost, but that's not a huge DPS loss.

I'm fine with some classes being better suited for stamina while others being better suited for magicka, even though it doesn't make any sense within the lore (Shalidor is a Nord mage, Naryu is a Dummer assassin, etc.). But at least make the races relatively equal at these roles. Altmer vs. Dunmer is well balanced, for example.

Yeah if they just balance it so that Altmer, Dunmer and Breton all have +10% max magicka and equalish other bonuses that's fine, all 3 races are supposed to be good mages/wizards in lore. With Stamina, Orc, Redguard, and Bosmer/Khajiit should be pretty equal, with Khajiit/Bosmer trading some sustain for stealth and out of stealth burst.

that doesn't solve the lack of diversity IMO

I don't give a rip about your marxist bs. That's never been a part of Elder Scrolls. Some races have always been better than others at some things, and I wouldn't have it any other way, as long as between the races that do have bonuses towards one playstyle are balanced vs each other that's enough. I dont need Nord mages being equal to Altmer, that's stupid and inconsistent with the series. If you want to make a Bosmer, Redguard, or Nord magicka based class you'd best be accepting that you're playing an uphill battle, at a disadvantage, and in RP are shunned by your culture, because that's how it's always been, if you encounter a Redguard mage it's always considered an anomaly and they always talk about how they were shunned by their family and friends, because its not normal for them.

I'm a Marxist but I agree with you whole heartedly. If people believe in evolution and genetics. They should be fine with BiS race for class roles.

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Thank You @ZOS_RobGarrett for update,

Current racial passives influence players to choose race for their role,

For Example:

PVE Magicka DPS mostly chooses from Altmer/Dumner or Breton, why shall not choose Khajit?, because Carnage passive will be useless and its good to miss. Reaper's March have lot of Khajit NPC mages.

PVE Tank mostly chooses from Argonian, Imperial, Nord or Orc, why shall not choose Bomser?, because its racial passives are not useful for tanking.

Racial passives should be balanced in way that every race can be used for any role (Magicka/Stamina DPS, Tank or Healer)

Exactly this ^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^ 100% support

firedrgn wrote: »

How about a magic bow. I have been really good this year.

You already have it, it is called destruction staff.