Combat Update in U21 - A New Approach

Minno

technohic wrote: »

So the complaint is that it's hard to understand the changes when not seeing the end goal for combat balance, and the answer is to do fewer changes so we see even less of the full picture?

I guess at least focusing to actually have a vision for where you want to go is good but it's just words so long as you're churning out updates with more Cp and new item sets that greatly impact balance every 3 months

I think the long term goal is this:
"we heard you and a PVP DLC will be coming, along with PVP/set balance changes and race changes"

No hype

BooPerScOOper

Redguard and Dunmer nerfs incoming.

Splattercat_83

valeriiya wrote: »

idk wrote: »

No offense, but considering the seemingly lack of direction Zos has had with these changes, leading to heavy handed changes, I do not see that the message offered in this thread offers anything meaningful.

I think we all know we can expect more heavy handed changes from a group that is challenged playing their own game just as we say a month ago and multiple times this past year and before.

As long as Zos lacks a vision yet uses the word loosely this will not change. Real change starts with the leadership. Zos needs some.

I agree. My first thought was that it's too late, then realizing that any time they make a change we're also gifted with horrible lag and glitches. One step forward, two steps back with ZO$. I hope these changes will be meaningful but based on the track record, I'm not expecting anything great.

The only thing I'm expecting at this point are more nerfs.

kifyiib14a_ESO

I miss the way bows used to work. Draw back and hold, release. Now it feels cheap and clumsy.

I can't speak to the greater feeling of combat in ESO as I am not a end game player, but having some pet controls (maybe someday name our pets?) would be cool.

Pet controls and bows working like bows should is all I ask for.

Synapsis123

My hopes are they allow us more choice in passives regardless of the race we choose. Also don't go around nerfing whats good just buff whats bad.

More decisions make for more interesting gameplay because of greater build diversity in pvp and open world/dungeons. Maybe this wouldn't apply as much to pve trials because people just run to alcasts website and copy builds.

Tommy_The_Gun

kifyiib14a_ESO wrote: »

I miss the way bows used to work. Draw back and hold, release. Now it feels cheap and clumsy.

I can't speak to the greater feeling of combat in ESO as I am not a end game player, but having some pet controls (maybe someday name our pets?) would be cool.

Pet controls and bows working like bows should is all I ask for.

You don't need to be high end player to give a feedback. I think this is the error ZOS & class reps program seems to be doing. Listening only to "top" 2- 5% of playerbase. The game is for everyone and it should be balanced for an "average" player.
"Play as you want" was in fact a game "motto" back in 2014 when it was originally released.
btw. I miss the "old" bow heavy attacks too...

craftycarper73

Done with gutting class abilities, now its time to gut racial passives..

Just a quick translation for you, from amongst all that garbage spewed in the OP.

usmcjdking

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@Aluneth , if having whiskers or tail or dark skin isn't enough of a difference between races for you, then I don't know why you're even playing this game. It's not a single player game, it's a competitive MMO in addition to being RPG, so of course some fine points of lore have to be sacrificed for balance. It comes without saying.

There is almost no meaningful competition in ESO.

usmcjdking

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

kifyiib14a_ESO wrote: »

I miss the way bows used to work. Draw back and hold, release. Now it feels cheap and clumsy.

I can't speak to the greater feeling of combat in ESO as I am not a end game player, but having some pet controls (maybe someday name our pets?) would be cool.

Pet controls and bows working like bows should is all I ask for.

You don't need to be high end player to give a feedback. I think this is the error ZOS & class reps program seems to be doing. Listening only to "top" 2- 5% of playerbase. The game is for everyone and it should be balanced for an "average" player.
"Play as you want" was in fact a game "motto" back in 2014 when it was originally released.
btw. I miss the "old" bow heavy attacks too...

The top 2-5% of the game can literally represent the entire playerbase. Some of those guys are end game raiders, some of those never leave the random group finder (myself included), some them of them butcher people in PVP videos and then rage quit thieves guild dailies immediately after.

munster1404

@ZOS_RobGarrett

Please don’t over nerf my Argonians. That’s right, 4 Argonian tanks all with 3x potion speed glyphs since I have problems with sustain. I can probably put up with a slight nerf to potion passive, take off 1k or so. Tanking is the only role left that is fun for me. Pls dun ruin it

Jtj87

would really like a reason to come back to this game. It has always had potential squandered by incompetency. Here is hoping we start seeing some meaningful combat changes/ updates or reworks.

Volckodav

[quote="Guess the next class to this game will be the trump class[/quote]

And I guess the ultimate will be fake news assault: completely negate all DPS done around you at the cost of 100% of your credibility, will make sense

technohic

Minno wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

So the complaint is that it's hard to understand the changes when not seeing the end goal for combat balance, and the answer is to do fewer changes so we see even less of the full picture?

I guess at least focusing to actually have a vision for where you want to go is good but it's just words so long as you're churning out updates with more Cp and new item sets that greatly impact balance every 3 months

I think the long term goal is this:
"we heard you and a PVP DLC will be coming, along with PVP/set balance changes and race changes"

No hype

Set balance will happen by addressing previously released sets that were far more powerful th as n expected while releasing new sets which will be OP in their place. That's the long term plan.

Short term plan is major race rebalance with race change tokens a discount to 2000 crowns.

I can see ESO thrive as a business for a long time.

RedRook

Ok.

I'll be back if I ever hear the worst of the bugs have been fixed. (Maybe.) I don't play a game to be frustrated when I need to do simple things like drink a potion and ride my horse.

Everything else at this point is rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

KatzMainTank

New race coming in U21 - The NPC

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS31tlVjn8ATMIdIvJiSt7PHxiI-Q5FhXU65vCuxRivsCT_Uyvg

olsborg

Nerf bleeds. Nuffsaid

Finedaible

ZOS_RobGarrett wrote: »

Hi all,

[...] In time we’ll also want to share more about the vision and strategy that will drive future combat updates. To be clear, this is simply a momentary deceleration of changes while we evaluate the state of combat and determine how to proceed. We are nowhere near done updating and improving the game.

[...]

That's all for now. Feedback, as always, is welcome.

As far as long-term "vision and strategy that will drive future combat updates", I'm anxious to know what is the team's 'vision' concerning new classes and weapons/staves? In an Elder Scrolls universe, choice and diversity were always rich parts of the players' story. Admittedly in an MMO like this, these aspects have to be more simplified in order to be manageable. Warden has been added to the game, but the execution of Warden (at launch) felt more like something the Dev team was forced to do, rather than being a cohesive addition (they finally got it somewhat right with Murkmire). What will this mean for other classes? *cough* Necromancer *cough* What about Illusion staves to help give magicka characters more options than Destruction or Restoration? The constant release of ability altering weapons makes me think that maybe the Dev team doesn't plan on introducing more weapon/stave types however, not unless they plan to re-balance everything... again and again.

ATomiX96

Aaaaaaand people getting Baited by ZOS once again.... Smh

Shadow-Fighter

The combat power provided by each race should be more equalized.

Players should feel a stronger sense of power progression through racial passives as they level up.

Sounds homogenizing races while class homogenizing not enough and second the buff affects only on new players.

It would be more nerf!

grizzly375

I'm just sick of nerfs already. Started playing a while ago, and rolled a Stam DK not because it was "meta" but because I like the feel of a heavy "in-your-face" melee toon. Rolled a Nord (because that's the race I want to play) and rapidly found out performance was WAY behind RG - so I scrapped him and rerolled. As updates came along, DK sustain and DPS dwindled to the point where this toon (my first and favorite) is now parked as a crafter.

Moved on to a nightblade just to get stam DPS into acceptable levels, and got there, but don't like the feel of the class. Parked.

Tried stamden and magden, both have constantly been "tweaked" and constantly gutted - now both parked.

Rolled magsorc and stamsorc (the latter just to try werewolf) - both suck, and get worse with every patch.

So, now I'm basically only playing Templars - which are only playable because they recently actually got buffed.

So, PLEASE, DON'T NERF the races that are working well now. Instead, improve the passives for all the others to "level the field."

I'd really like a system where the races were primarily cosmetic, and gave some MINOR lore-based buff (like weapon/armor line xp gain + 1 other thing - drink/food duration, for example), then move the HUGE resource impacting effects (like RG's stamina bonuses) into a morphable "focus" line available to any/all races. You can still "play how you want," want to be a Stam DPS High Elf - great - choose the "Berserker" trait line that gives + to stam/stam recovery, etc. Want to be a Dunmer tank - choose the "Guardian" trait line that gives improved health, tri-stat recovery, maybe some inherent reactive healing. Want to be a Khajit magicka DPS - take the "Battle Mage" line that give increased magicka/recovery, elemental damage, etc. Healers take the "Medic" trait line - increased Magicka/tri-stat recovery, outgoing healing, etc...

Maotti

I main a Nord magsorc. And i love playing him. Sadly i don't see how the combat team can help him.

And no, racechange is out of the question. Got copies of him in all classes and some are stamchars, so not entirely useless.

Ingenon

ZOS_RobGarrett wrote: »

Hi all,
Currently our planned changes for the update include:

• New item sets for our Q1 2019 DLC
• Redesigns for several PvP item sets that are currently rarely used
• A balance pass on racial passive abilities
• A small number of other balance changes, many of which are wrapping up efforts the team took on in U20
• An assortment of bug fixes

We’re currently in the process of sharing the details of these changes with the Class Reps to get feedback ahead of PTS, which won’t start until the new year.

Thank you for sharing your plans.

Please consider with the racial passive abilities change to allow us to make a viable tank or healer or magicka/stamina dps with any race. And allow us to do this with our existing characters, simply by going the appropriate shrine in our alliance capital and paying some gold.

MinarasLaure

I like how the eso community is desperately asking for more balance and content fix while slowing down new content and new sets, and what we get from zos is the exact opposite.

FrancisCrawford

Machete wrote: »

#BuffBosmer

Though I do have to say for Khajiit and Bosmer, please get rid of the stealth passive! Please!!!

Can we please stop with asking for nerfs for the most enjoyable remaining skills in the game????!!!!???!!!!!

I don't care if people kill you in PvP. Please don't keep trashing PvE to make up for it!!!!!!!!

Twohothardware

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Machete wrote: »

#BuffBosmer

Though I do have to say for Khajiit and Bosmer, please get rid of the stealth passive! Please!!!

Can we please stop with asking for nerfs for the most enjoyable remaining skills in the game????!!!!???!!!!!

I don't care if people kill you in PvP. Please don't keep trashing PvE to make up for it!!!!!!!!

What do you possibly need the Stealthy passive for in PvE that you can't do the same thing without it. PvE is dungeons, delves, trials, etc of which Stealthed crouch walking is not needed. If u want to steal items so you can make less gold than just killing random adds that's still possible on any other race without Stealthy.

FrancisCrawford

Earthewen wrote: »

@ZOS_RobGarrett

I'm a little concerned that all of the nightblades you have representing ALL nightblades are solo/small group players. What are you doing to represent the large group players and those people who tend to think out of the box?

Judging by Murkmire, nobody. They nerfed 5 of my magblades' top 6 skills hard -- Funnel Health, Twisting Path, Merciless Resolve, Harness Magicka, and Shades. The only one untouched was Elemental Blockade.

FrancisCrawford

Soul_Demon wrote: »

That would never be permitted in a real business model- there is no way someone who has a personal financial interest would be tapped for business decisions impacting a large platform such as the game.

Whatever the merits of the rest of your post, that one sentence is total nonsense. Large companies commonly take advice from dealers, consultants and others with strong financial involvement. Besides, even "ordinary" users of business products can have their whole careers and resumes wrapped up in them.

FrancisCrawford

tamrielwinner wrote: »

ZOS_RobGarrett wrote: »

• When selecting a race, players should have multiple effective options for any given gameplay role.
• The combat power provided by each race should be more equalized.
• Players should feel a stronger sense of power progression through racial passives as they level up.
• The unique feeling and flavor each race provides should be retained and enhanced where possible, and remain faithful to established lore.

please don't make all the races the same, they're really pretty good atm. weaker races like nords could use some help. making all the races viable for all gameplay roles is a really bad idea and not fun. their unique ability to fill roles is what makes them great and powerful.

Either @ZOS_RobGarrett needs to write better or I need to improve my reading comprehension, because I think almost everybody is misreading that post. The "stronger sense of power progression" suggests buffs to me more than nerfs. The "multiple effective options for any gameplay role" reads to me as if the goal is that several races are good choices for any role, not necessarily that all are. The "unique feeling and flavor" part also suggests that there's no goal of making all races good at all things. And I didn't see anything that points to morphable racial passives.

FrancisCrawford

kifyiib14a_ESO wrote: »

I miss the way bows used to work. Draw back and hold, release. Now it feels cheap and clumsy.

I can't speak to the greater feeling of combat in ESO as I am not a end game player, but having some pet controls (maybe someday name our pets?) would be cool.

Pet controls and bows working like bows should is all I ask for.

I've learned to make do with Snipe as a substitute for the old bow heavy attacks. It feels better than I expected.

FrancisCrawford

Twohothardware wrote: »

What do you possibly need the Stealthy passive for in PvE that you can't do the same thing without it. PvE is dungeons, delves, trials, etc of which Stealthed crouch walking is not needed. If u want to steal items so you can make less gold than just killing random adds that's still possible on any other race without Stealthy.

Skipping fights in overland content.

I just did the Clockwork City story on my stamblade thief and, beginning to end, I skipped 3/4 or so of the fights I had when I did the same content earlier on a sorcerer. Plus I was moving at 125% of ordinary walking speed. Overland quests IMO are much more fun when done that way.

And to me stealth is a core aspect of an Elder Scrolls environment. When I played Morrowind, long ago, I stole everything that wasn't nailed down. I even enchanted an item with telekinesis so that I could steal stuff out of the middle of shops. And in ESO just as in Morrowind, 2 of the first 4 guilds one encountered were stealth-oriented ones.

You're right that the loot tables for thieving in this particular game are meh. So be it. Sneaking is, for those who like it, a huge part of the game.