Nicko_Lps wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

Its time to do something about heavy armor builds with high damage, Players in 5-7 heavy shouldnt be able to take players in light or medium armor.

A great way to do this without effecting heavy armor healer? Add to battle spirit that every piece of heavy armor after 1 reduces spell and physical pen by 3k ish

At 3k reduced pen a player wearing 5 pc of heavy will be down 15k pen and thats the average amount of penetration you can get out of heavy armor build. They wont be able to kill anything, which is how TANKS SHOULD BE . Bleed and oblivion dmg might still be a problem but this should do a decent job of fixing things.

Heavy healers will be fine because pen doesnt effect heals

People like you complain about heavy armor killing people, but when an actual Tank comes around and DOESN'T kill people you guys still whine that they are unkillable and slow down the gameplay, Which is it?

i have no problem with tanks doing tanks jobs, cc's, negates, res's, permas, all fine

Actually you do have problem with those. I think I remember you complaining about those back in the days. Most NBs did as well. Which was why block was nerfed in the first place.

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Miswar wrote: »

In regards of the PvP this heavy armour meta is big joke.

Simple solution for this...

If you use 1-2 piece heavy armour = No change to dps
If you wear 5 piece heavy armour = -50% of the dps no matter if you are stamina or magica character.

You want to play as tank? Than so be it and the above pretty much makes you an tank.

Also this would NOT impact PvE side and would definately solve hell of a lot of nonsense from PvP.

This also would mean that you actually would need learn to play the damn game instead just been carried by gear.

Leave the healing as it is... they can still run around towers feeling op but guess what they really are just running and not hitting like a truck as they are now in terms of dps.

All of this would result people wearing medium and light gears... would make battles much more fluent etc.

This heavy amour nonsense has made so mamy people getting bored by PvP...and yes lag is not worst culprit eventhough it is obnoxious too.

Sure thing. Also add +50% damage taken to anyone wearing a bedsheat? You grossly overestimate how much resistance heavy gives. Not nearly enough to justify 50% dmg nerf. Heavy passives are nothing to write home about. Fix some specific sets and see how that plays out.

You don't want balance, you only want to replace one meta with another by killing an entire armor class.

Dont close your eyes, its not the resistance that makes heavy armor strong, its all the passive package.

Block cost reduction
Healing recieved
Max HP
Resourse returns
resistances.

When a glassy sorc duels a glassy nightblade whoever does 1 or 2 silly mistakes max ends up dead, now these two sacrifice tankiness to get damage, when they both hit a BDoS heavy armor tankling that stacks 3+ heals and they cant get him down this is not balanced


You want damage? Sacrifice tankiness and get some, being a tank a deal amazing bursts of damage and INSANE amounts of healing and HoT's almost as good as glassy builds while they fly like F-15's is hilarious, its the solution that ZoS found for EX-skyrim low reflect players since being in heavy allow's you to make several mistakes before end up dead.


When people cant play a rewarding build with a high risk its their problem, they should stop whining on the forums since they cant play it and realize its their fault and their lack of understanding.

Ive said before, one of the most famous warden dps tanklings in EU/PC/VIVEC while magsorc/magblade mode survived me for like 2-3 mins, and i do not consider myself a good player. While on Tank mode he happyly tanks around 10 people and manage to kill some while running like flash gordon + stacking several heals on him.

I do agree with Misswar in the damage debuff while wearing heavy armor, but they should have their insane healing to not cause problems in PvE.

Heavy armor + sword and board is not pro, the exactly opposite.

LA and shield is not pro by that very logic.

Im stacking 2 shields vs magica players and my dps skills are: Curse + reach + frag +fury + comet. 5 and they need to be landed down perfectly timed, now if you see only LA i guess you need to L2P a bit a have a knowledge on what your enemy is casting.

Xeniph wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

Its time to do something about heavy armor builds with high damage, Players in 5-7 heavy shouldnt be able to take players in light or medium armor.

A great way to do this without effecting heavy armor healer? Add to battle spirit that every piece of heavy armor after 1 reduces spell and physical pen by 3k ish

At 3k reduced pen a player wearing 5 pc of heavy will be down 15k pen and thats the average amount of penetration you can get out of heavy armor build. They wont be able to kill anything, which is how TANKS SHOULD BE . Bleed and oblivion dmg might still be a problem but this should do a decent job of fixing things.

Heavy healers will be fine because pen doesnt effect heals

People like you complain about heavy armor killing people, but when an actual Tank comes around and DOESN'T kill people you guys still whine that they are unkillable and slow down the gameplay, Which is it?

i have no problem with tanks doing tanks jobs, cc's, negates, res's, permas, all fine

Actually you do have problem with those. I think I remember you complaining about those back in the days. Most NBs did as well. Which was why block was nerfed in the first place.

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Miswar wrote: »

In regards of the PvP this heavy armour meta is big joke.

Simple solution for this...

If you use 1-2 piece heavy armour = No change to dps
If you wear 5 piece heavy armour = -50% of the dps no matter if you are stamina or magica character.

You want to play as tank? Than so be it and the above pretty much makes you an tank.

Also this would NOT impact PvE side and would definately solve hell of a lot of nonsense from PvP.

This also would mean that you actually would need learn to play the damn game instead just been carried by gear.

Leave the healing as it is... they can still run around towers feeling op but guess what they really are just running and not hitting like a truck as they are now in terms of dps.

All of this would result people wearing medium and light gears... would make battles much more fluent etc.

This heavy amour nonsense has made so mamy people getting bored by PvP...and yes lag is not worst culprit eventhough it is obnoxious too.

Sure thing. Also add +50% damage taken to anyone wearing a bedsheat? You grossly overestimate how much resistance heavy gives. Not nearly enough to justify 50% dmg nerf. Heavy passives are nothing to write home about. Fix some specific sets and see how that plays out.

You don't want balance, you only want to replace one meta with another by killing an entire armor class.

Dont close your eyes, its not the resistance that makes heavy armor strong, its all the passive package.

Block cost reduction
Healing recieved
Max HP
Resourse returns
resistances.

When a glassy sorc duels a glassy nightblade whoever does 1 or 2 silly mistakes max ends up dead, now these two sacrifice tankiness to get damage, when they both hit a BDoS heavy armor tankling that stacks 3+ heals and they cant get him down this is not balanced


You want damage? Sacrifice tankiness and get some, being a tank a deal amazing bursts of damage and INSANE amounts of healing and HoT's almost as good as glassy builds while they fly like F-15's is hilarious, its the solution that ZoS found for EX-skyrim low reflect players since being in heavy allow's you to make several mistakes before end up dead.


When people cant play a rewarding build with a high risk its their problem, they should stop whining on the forums since they cant play it and realize its their fault and their lack of understanding.

Ive said before, one of the most famous warden dps tanklings in EU/PC/VIVEC while magsorc/magblade mode survived me for like 2-3 mins, and i do not consider myself a good player. While on Tank mode he happyly tanks around 10 people and manage to kill some while running like flash gordon + stacking several heals on him.

I do agree with Misswar in the damage debuff while wearing heavy armor, but they should have their insane healing to not cause problems in PvE.

Heavy armor + sword and board is not pro, the exactly opposite.

LA and shield is not pro by that very logic.

I wouldn't worry about Nico. He has no clue what he's talking about. For example, I am still looking for that heavy passive that reduces block cost.

Oh right, it was removed ages ago. I wouldn't give anyone your time if they can't even log into the game to have a look at the passives, before running their mouth.

Anyone who thinks passives that give:

1800 spell resistance
20% Health recovery
270 Mag/Stam every 2 seconds WHILE taking damage. (541 every 4 seconds)
10% Max Health
8% healing received
and +25% more Stam/Mag on heavy attacks

Makes it all so much more powerful than the other armors, clearly doesn't understand the game.

Im talking about about heavy armor + sword and board as a combination but you failed to realize it i had to write it exactly like this for you to understand it?

Keep ghosting whatever i write in the forums like a triggered pleb, i told you i enjoy it.

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Miswar wrote: »

In regards of the PvP this heavy armour meta is big joke.

Simple solution for this...

If you use 1-2 piece heavy armour = No change to dps
If you wear 5 piece heavy armour = -50% of the dps no matter if you are stamina or magica character.

You want to play as tank? Than so be it and the above pretty much makes you an tank.

Also this would NOT impact PvE side and would definately solve hell of a lot of nonsense from PvP.

This also would mean that you actually would need learn to play the damn game instead just been carried by gear.

Leave the healing as it is... they can still run around towers feeling op but guess what they really are just running and not hitting like a truck as they are now in terms of dps.

All of this would result people wearing medium and light gears... would make battles much more fluent etc.

This heavy amour nonsense has made so mamy people getting bored by PvP...and yes lag is not worst culprit eventhough it is obnoxious too.

Sure thing. Also add +50% damage taken to anyone wearing a bedsheat? You grossly overestimate how much resistance heavy gives. Not nearly enough to justify 50% dmg nerf. Heavy passives are nothing to write home about. Fix some specific sets and see how that plays out.

You don't want balance, you only want to replace one meta with another by killing an entire armor class.

Dont close your eyes, its not the resistance that makes heavy armor strong, its all the passive package.

Block cost reduction
Healing recieved
Max HP
Resourse returns
resistances.

When a glassy sorc duels a glassy nightblade whoever does 1 or 2 silly mistakes max ends up dead, now these two sacrifice tankiness to get damage, when they both hit a BDoS heavy armor tankling that stacks 3+ heals and they cant get him down this is not balanced


You want damage? Sacrifice tankiness and get some, being a tank a deal amazing bursts of damage and INSANE amounts of healing and HoT's almost as good as glassy builds while they fly like F-15's is hilarious, its the solution that ZoS found for EX-skyrim low reflect players since being in heavy allow's you to make several mistakes before end up dead.


When people cant play a rewarding build with a high risk its their problem, they should stop whining on the forums since they cant play it and realize its their fault and their lack of understanding.

Ive said before, one of the most famous warden dps tanklings in EU/PC/VIVEC while magsorc/magblade mode survived me for like 2-3 mins, and i do not consider myself a good player. While on Tank mode he happyly tanks around 10 people and manage to kill some while running like flash gordon + stacking several heals on him.

I do agree with Misswar in the damage debuff while wearing heavy armor, but they should have their insane healing to not cause problems in PvE.

Heavy armor + sword and board is not pro, the exactly opposite.

Block cost reduction isn't even a passive.

That warden survived 3mins? You didn't die 3 mins either and you call yourself "not even that good".

-50% weapon dmg means smaller heals as well (I take miswar means a cut in wpn dmg instead of a maim bc of what he wrote as a reply)

Swift and almost every source of "Flash Gordon" gets nerfed by next week.

And there are more weapons than SnB.

Block cost reduction is a passive on sword and shield skill line, and im talking about heavy armor + sword and board perhaps you should look better the last sentence.


Are you somehow low intelligence or act like it?
Im simply stating that a tank can dish out almost same burst dps as 1 glassy build in light/med while easyly can take the damage 2 glass builds can dish out and that is not balanced.

Im talking about whats happening now, when the nerf comes live we will see how much of a nerf it was

Feanor wrote: »

@IZZEFlameLash

Block was nerfed several times. The reason always was that permablocking was the best thing since sliced bread, and PvE tanks complained that tanking is so boring. Hold mouse button and wait until the boss is dead, with the application of debuffs on cooldown. Yawn.

What ZOS did somehow was making blocking easier for everyone while just penalizing Shield play glyphs. Everyone just changed the build up a bit and nothing really changed.

When a player is tanky and acts as a deterrent that’s completely fine. It’s the opponent’s duty to make in intelligent choice in battle and look for different targets then (which many players can’t do, a tanky player very much acts like a noob magnet).

What’s not fine is when a player doesn’t die and can utilize a substantial damage potential at the same time. It’s a futile attempt though. ZOS won’t change anything about it. We’ve had this discussion for years now.

Kadoin wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

Banana wrote: »

Its only going to get worse with all the shield changes. I was light now im thinking heavy.

Next patch there is ZERO reason to wear light armor, unless they increase cost reduction by 1% per piece to actually justify the shield nerf. Since magicka will no longer be "safe at a distance" or "shielded up" all the time, the skill cost is ridiculous even in light, and if heavy can give you enough defense to not have to cast shields/heal 2-3 times or more in the same battle (when these skills cost around 4K+ EACH), then essentially heavy is even better than light in sustain. The penetration and crit become the only things that matter, but considering PvP even now is dominated by tank builds that do damage, I highly doubt any of the light armor passives will outweigh he benefits of heavy in nearly every PvP build.

1) When was that ever the case? People used gap closers on many builds. Then they were nerfed but swift was introduced. Now swift, snare immunity, maj Expedition and speed pots get nerfed as well. And if I can believe in "magbuilds can't afford to use speed pots" (beside the glaring fact that ling. health + mE pots are a thing that don't benefit stamina over mag), this should slow down chasers. But people will probably go back to use the still damage-nerfed gap closers.

2) Fun fact: Heavy grants neither crit nor pen. But light and medium do.

But if you ask me, shield costs should be lowered to meet the smaller size and give incentive to run light. Mag should get a snare removal outside of purge and mist form. Medium's sprint passive should be changed to movement speed (but % lowered, maybe) and gap closers should get a bit of a range reduction, maybe to 15-18 meters?

Shield costs reduced for light to solve its balance v. heavy? Yeah, you obviously haven't logged onto the PTS and used light armor. Speed increase for medium...when the entire patch was aimed at lowering speed because the game bugs out? Really? Nothing more needs to be said.

EDIT: Before someone cries and says its baiting, let me expound on why its dumb. #1 no passive for ANY armor tree right now specifically targets certain skills for it to be usable. None. Armor passives are available and useful at all times. This is exactly what makes heavy better than both medium and light: the passives are simply better to have on all the time, at least in PvP.

To suggest crit and pen actually are game changers when in light vs heavy is just silly. If anything the only reason to wear light is cost reduction. The crit is useful if you are a healer, but considering the change to healing ward, it's simply not going to be as good as having damage reduction 100% of the time. No, nope, not gonna happen.

I don't know anyone that tremendously benefits from either of those stats in general in PvP. You can show some streamtard running around 1vXing idiots, but the problems is that streamers manufacture footage. What they don't show you is what really matters: how they die. Here's an example: some guy might use a somewhat tanky DK LA build where he whips someone three times and they die. Now, that guy he whipped we know nothing about, but what we do know is that its very unlikely anyone with a brain or decent build would die in 3 flame lashes. No one. And certainly not anyone with 33K+ resist, greater than 26K HP, and more than 3K crit resist.

Okay, why does any of this matter? Simple. The guy's build looks good on paper and on video, however I guarantee you when these LA builds start to face enemies with more resist, all of them crumble. The reason is very simple: because in LA you have to sacrifice too much to gain either defense, damage, healing, or sustain. You can do two but not both. Yet, all stam builds can do it all, and at worse only one thing needs to be sacrificed. It's not surprising they don't see a reason to use medium when heavy is not much more different AND gives health, more resist, and depending on your build more sustain.

On live, most LA build crutch on shields and the fact they don't need to stack resist to be able to gain damage and sustain, no healing or healing and sustain, no damage. That effectively only left one weakness compared to stam: having to sacrifice for a stam pool, we cannot forget this weakness of LA builds. Now, in this patch ZOS decided to nerf shields for LA users overall. Now with the changes, its back to TWO. None of the passives ZOS has added to LA address defense, damage, healing, or sustain. None of the passives address roll cost, or break free. As a result the only logical thing to do will be to move to heavy where you can at least get health + defense in resistance and longer shields. I will even wager, that if medium gets the buff you want to speed, magicka builds might move there instead. Even on live you can run a magicka build in medium, in pvp, with success right now. In the future, though, 25% damage reduction, lower roll cost, lower spint, sprint speed increase would be TOO good to pass up. Add movement speed and LA has no place in the armor competition anymore.

What I find interesting is that you can find a fault with medium, that is going to still be good and in some cases better, yet are too blind to see a glaring problem with light? Reading the forums I can see how ZOS comes to the stupidest conclusions when it comes to balance.

TequilaFire wrote: »

What you all are actually on about is the adjustment to shields, so I would be careful about nerfing heavy because you are going to need it. My Stamplar and Stamblades wear 5 Medium and only 2 heavy and take down plenty of all heavy users.

templesus wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

What you all are actually on about is the adjustment to shields, so I would be careful about nerfing heavy because you are going to need it. My Stamplar and Stamblades wear 5 Medium and only 2 heavy and take down plenty of all heavy users.

I agree with this, heavy armor is not the holy grail most people whine about it being. If they nerf heavy armor a LOT of people are gonna be wishing they didn’t. But then I run five or even six medium on my DK, so if y’all want to nerf heavy to the ground my life just gets easier. Also fury, ravager, 7th, these sets aren’t really the issue. The issue is defile sets, and passive proc sets, that let people tank up and go through their rotation while the effects do the heavy lifting. But ZOS certainly isn’t going to do away with the bs sets so nerfing heavy damage into the ground is probably the only way to go.

That guy zergs. His version of “taking down plenty of heavy users” is him and 10+ others fighting another group of 10+.

ak_pvp wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Ahaha and all these "pro" players saying "no more nerfs"!

Bleeds need (as it is nicely called now) "adjustments" as it's overperforming mechanic having very limited counters, or instead of nerf we need better counters (like cheaper bleed removal skill with both stamina and magicka morphs

Edit:perfect solution would be to bind it with LA and MA skill so it wouldn't be accessible for HA so bleeds would be actually more effective against it).

Next we need not HA to be nerfed but HA damaging sets to be tuned down. It's ridiculous that armor type designed for taking damage gets the best damage buffing sets. HA sets like ravager should give 350 weap/spell damage at best.

Stop defending broken mechanics just because you like to feel strong. Literally there is no reason to not go heavy + stack 7k weap damage + DW - major evasion, major protection, major expedition just from one skill + bleeds - meaning your opponent is naked and can't dodge a sheit + spin2win dancing queen, meaning no roll dodge from execute phase.

Yer missing the point.

There is no reason heavy shouldn't have damage. It is a method of defense just like kiting or shielding. The damage is completely separate from that. If you think people shouldn't survive and have dmg, then you should do the same to shield, cloak and roll.
Raw tankiness has been nerfed to *** as is, a single bleed defile build will tear you a new one, and you will be quick overwhelmed.

The problem is when you run into builds that have dmg and really good defense from speed and tankiness.

Ranger209 wrote: »

I think nerfing mobility is exactly the way to go. If you are wearing heavy you should be choosing a stand your ground play style, not a circle jerk a tree at the speed of light and building ulti while wearing heavy play style. Regular speed is the same for everyone so they will have no lower floor than anyone else. Their ceiling for mobility, though, should very much be lower than medium or light. They aren't being made to run slower at the base level, they just wouldn't be able to reach the same top end speeds.

Their damage is already less than medium and light by virtue of 12% soon to be 15% weapon damage and 4884 penetration from light. I wouldn't mind seeing medium get a 2442 pen buff and light get a 7.5% spell dmg buff to widen the damage gap though and create a little more thought between the armor types.