Vahrokh wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

lucky_dutch wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

There are several fights where with gimped DPS and regen you just don't make them. You slowly die and that's it.

I don’t know to which fights you refer specifically but I’m gonna guess that they’re ones which are probably not meant to be solo’d and you’re only able to do so because of an over-performing build.

I’m sorry but a massive portion of the game (PvP) should not be denied necessary changes in order to accommodate niche requirements of a few people who are trying to solo content that isn’t designed to be solo’d. That just doesn’t make sense!

Magsorcs will still be able to do vMSA which is the benchmark for tough deliberately-designed solo content

Thank you for kindly allowing us to still be able to dare doing the content the other classes do!

PvP is not a massive portion of the game. [snip]. Rightly so, because ESO is to PvP what a Hyundai city car is to a Ferrari.

All the others take ESO for what it is, a TES flavoured PvE game. [snip] So bad and in bad faith to underline 200 times one of the 2 PvE induced nerfs, over 4 years of hundreds of PvP induced nerfs.

Even if that were true - it's not - 99% of PvE is an environment where you don't feel any nerfs at all, and the remaining 1% has issues of its own that are not connected to anything else in the game. Your dichotomy just is an easy scapegoat to blame.

Wait until in PvE you won't be able to do plenty of what you used to do for 4 years and then you'll see how you feel the nerfs.

Questing? Not different. Overland? Not different. Group dungeons? The new ones have a lot of one shots, and ZOS wants more healers, so that has nothing to do with PvP. What remains? Soloing group dungeons, soloing World Bosses and Trials. That's the 1% I refered to. And that's precisely the content where soloing is an unintended outlier and ZOS wants to push less self reliance in.

[edited to remove quote]

Vahrokh wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

lucky_dutch wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

There are several fights where with gimped DPS and regen you just don't make them. You slowly die and that's it.

I don’t know to which fights you refer specifically but I’m gonna guess that they’re ones which are probably not meant to be solo’d and you’re only able to do so because of an over-performing build.

I’m sorry but a massive portion of the game (PvP) should not be denied necessary changes in order to accommodate niche requirements of a few people who are trying to solo content that isn’t designed to be solo’d. That just doesn’t make sense!

Magsorcs will still be able to do vMSA which is the benchmark for tough deliberately-designed solo content

Thank you for kindly allowing us to still be able to dare doing the content the other classes do!

PvP is not a massive portion of the game. [snip] Rightly so, because ESO is to PvP what a Hyundai city car is to a Ferrari.

All the others take ESO for what it is, a TES flavoured PvE game. [snip] So bad and in bad faith to underline 200 times one of the 2 PvE induced nerfs, over 4 years of hundreds of PvP induced nerfs.

Even if that were true - it's not - 99% of PvE is an environment where you don't feel any nerfs at all, and the remaining 1% has issues of its own that are not connected to anything else in the game. Your dichotomy just is an easy scapegoat to blame.

Wait until in PvE you won't be able to do plenty of what you used to do for 4 years and then you'll see how you feel the nerfs.

Questing? Not different. Overland? Not different. Group dungeons? The new ones have a lot of one shots, and ZOS wants more healers, so that has nothing to do with PvP. What remains? Soloing group dungeons, soloing World Bosses and Trials. That's the 1% I refered to. And that's precisely the content where soloing is an unintended outlier and ZOS wants to push less self reliance in.

It's 1% for you. For me it's 90% of my gameplay and if I have to stop playing 90% of my time, why should I still play?

You shouldn't if you feel it isn't worth it. I just wanted to stress that the nerfs to your soloing experience has nothing to do with PvP whatsoever.

[edited to remove quote]

lucky_dutch wrote: »

They haven’t DESTROYED your gameplay though, you now just have to build more resistances into your build which means you’ll kill things a bit slower. You should still be able to tackle all the same challenges though. In solo-PvE more than any other form of gameplay you can adapt to changes.

I'm failing to understand why this was ever an issue in the first place then?

Why couldn't other builds just kill Sorcs a bit faster? What tradeoffs do other builds have to make, honestly? Medium/Heavy armor builds already have 2x-3x the base mitigation. High crit % is built into many builds, no changes required. Stam builds are hardly obligated to use their off stat, unlike Mag builds.

Solo-PvE was never an issue in the first place and doesn't apply to half of these changes at all.

Any build was able to make changes to warrant a different outcome. Being comparable to other classes/builds after those changes wasn't quite as easy as you're trying to make it sound.

Okay, lets try to summarize:

Shield changes are nerf in PVE - while pretty much everyone pointed out, that the healers being not so desirable are nothing to do with shields - and slight (okay, undecided level) nerf in PVP, with some potential abuse of the new shields in heavy armour.
(Bear in mind, that in the last pain point classnotes they explicitly said they wanted to make medium and light armour better in pvp).

Okay, slight(ish) nerf to dark deal...okay, its PVP again, since the skill in the current form - khmm, casttime, khmm - not really suitable for PVE, but again i refer to the repnotes/painpoints: sorcerer sustain was identified as one. So, WTF?

Pet buffs - still dumb as hell, but now they are invulnerable in trials and to be honest, the whole pet idea is not well received imho in this hame. So, meh.

No bound armor buff/making it more worthwhile (dont get me wit the block thing... meh again), still cramped skillbars and with the OL change, even more cramped skillbars...

Oh, overload change... okay, now with the general direction i have no problems, but the numbers should be modified further, passive effects should sorted out (DW passives f.e.) and as a stamsorc, a new morph would be welcome - and of course, since the third bar is gone, a general reshuffling of skill, passives buffs and debuffs (in other words: a general class overhaul) is in dire need.

But, in the current form this patch for sorcerers offered mainly nerfs and thats all.

Correct me if im wrong in my assessment (or the facts - i may have overlooked something).

paulsimonps wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Yeah, that's how I see em now - they function almost exactly like health - but with the benefit of being proactive and non-debuffable - and it seems the cost of not benefitting from block..

The synergies still aren't quite there.

@Biro123
Actually you just brought up a really interesting point there "non-debuffable". Shields either scale of your max health or are capped by a % of your max health. I and probably others tend to forget that Minor Mangle is a thing. That could actually lower shield amount now if they are at the 40/50% cap or if its a health based shield. I need to go test this now and see if it really does

So I tested it with @Tasear and as far as we could tell Minor Mangle did not change anything, maybe we used too little magicka and or too much Health, but we could not get the Damage shield to change with and without Minor Mangle.

maboleth wrote: »

Sadly no fixes in Hardened to test the shields further... meaning this PTS4 is mostly like another step to the finals, not requesting any feedback at all. I can safely delete PTS from the drive, no point wasting space.

Personally, I'm no fan of "your pets die here but not there". It doesn't make sense. Why the same enemies deal damage in the open world, but not in trials or dungeons? What's the "lore" behind it?

It's a poor decision. I understand why it's there, but it's a band aid fix more than an upgrade to pets. Unless this is stated in the tooltip, new players will be puzzled why their pets are dying / not dying.

I agree. The lack of consistency is really poor and unclear to anyone who doesn't read patch notes. Especially that the clannfear won't taunt.
I think that's going to be really confusing for a lot of people.

joaaocaampos wrote: »

@Tasear @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RobGarrett

What I expect from next PTS Patch (4.2.4 or 4.2.5)!

Light Armor > Annulment > Dampen Magic:

• This morph now also increases the shield cap to 50% of your Max Health, previously 40%.
• This morph now also increases the shield cap by 2% of your Max Health for each piece of light armor worn, previously 40%.

Champion Points > Bastion:

• Increases the effectiveness of damage absorbing effects by [0-25]%. (This effect is useless now)
• Reduces damage taken while using a damage shield ability by [0-25]%.

Sorcerer > Daedric Summoning > Daedric Protection (Passive):

• Increases your Health Recovery, Stamina Recovery and Magicka Recovery by X% when a Daedric Summoning ability is slotted.

Done!

I don't agree with the Daedric Protection tho.

Months ago I suggested changes to Daedric Protection to "Increases your Health and Stamina Recovery by 10/20% and Max Health by 4/8% while you have a Daedric Summoning ability slotted", this would take the Expert Summoner passive to Daedric Protection.

I think Expert Summoner has a very good passive that is very limited to pet builds, Expert Summoner should be more pet oriented, a passive specific for pet builds. The new Expert Summoner should be: "Increase the damage dealt by pets by 2/4% for each pet active". This would increase the dmg dealt by pets by 12% if you have 2 pets active + atronach. (if 2/4% is too much, try 1/2% or maybe 2/3%)

The best design is a heal that has a critical strike as requirement but doesn’t itself crit. That ... feels ... EXCITING!

Nyladreas wrote: »

ku5h wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Hello,

For starters I'd like to say that what you've done to damage shields is wonderful for balance, and you should stick with your changes. Hardened Ward and Harness Magicka should be used pre-engagement, and Healing Ward (an instant cast) should be used as a life saving maneuver.

Now that we've finally addressed shields we need to address sorcs. Their arsenal isn't very well equipped for survival without the use of shields so before these changes go live I would like to see two things happen:

1) Blood Magic passive - have it so you are healed for a % of damage done by all class abilities. Not sure what number would be balanced; that would require testing.

2) Bolt Escape - make this ability behave like dodge rolling in the sense that it breaks roots, and most importantly you can streak in any direction without changing your character's direction. Meaning you can continuously Bolt Escape backwards. This would greatly improve their ability to stay at range.

I'm all for the damage shield nerfs, but magsorcs do need something to improve their survivability.

P.S. Also make Crystal Blast proc like Frags please.

Yes, please keep listening to the nightblades and balance sorc like this. Then the subscription losses will continue until the layoffs start. I have to wonder, how much money have you lost since yesterday, and how much more will you lose?

When it comes to balance, damage shields is a topic that you and I are simply not going to agree on (it's like politics lol), but I would like to focus on the areas that we could agree on instead. Do you not like the suggestions I gave?

Sure, they're great. That 800 heal I get from blood magic is going to save me from your 10K incap crit and defile while I'm busy recasting shield.

You'll never kill me in two and a half seconds!

The shield cast time is such a great idea, they should put it on cloak too!

Sure I'll take 1 second cast on cloak. If you give me access to 17 different AoE abilities that completely remove all your defensives, dispel your shields, drop any player's block and make them unable to use any burst heal/oh crap ultimate.

You want it fair, yes? Shields let you heal. How you get those heals is up to you. Perhaps invest into sets that provide healing/give you a ton of defense, like any other class in the game? There are tons that would help you. Also - you resto skill line? Where's stamina healing skill line?

Ever heard of hist sap set for example?

Oh but wait... you want to keep your dual damage sets and weapons right? Ah well...

(Oh yeah and btw my main is a Sorc, not a NB)

If you were Sorc main you would know that this doesnt work, it's exactly the opposite. You need at least one full sustain set and then some, 2 dmg sets...lol.

Execpt I use non meta builds on all my classes inlcuding sorc, not using the shields everyone is complaining about at all. Why do I even bother with people here if you're just going to assume your own things.

Well you were the one stating about sorc using dual dmg sets and weapons - which couldn´t really be further from the truth.

Granted you don´t play meta sorc builds as you state yourself - but then you shouldn´t make such broad and evidently false assumptions no?