PTS Update 20 - Feedback Thread for Sorcerer

Jaimeh · September 2018

Class reps, please urge them to reconsider the removal of the Overload bar; sorcs have to contend with double barring two pets, that's four slots for two class skills, something no other class has to deal with. Plus, the bar gave a much needed utility to sorc tanks and healers who have been underperforming in these roles compared to all other classes. This is not something to be brushed over. There was a reason why Overload was designed this way, if they go through this change then they should drastically alter the whole class, including pets, etc., otherwise it really makes absolutely no sense. I'm sure you have brought these concerns to them already, but please continue to do so.

RaddlemanNumber7 · September 2018

Can we get a new Sorcerer feed back thread please. Now that the shield changes in 4.2.0 are being reverted most of the stuff in this 39 page thread is irrelevant.

Galarthor · September 2018

Derra wrote: »

Galarthor wrote: »

@Derra

I don't dislike the idea in general. It actually sounds interesting, hower, I think there are several issues that have to be address first in order to implement such a shield change.

1) 10000 PvE turns in 5000 PvP which is pretty much nothing.
2) 3000 each second in PvE turn into 1500 each second in PvP, which is not even worth mentioning.
3) There is no space on sorc bars for HoTs to actually suppelement the "Shield HoT".
4) 1vX / outnumbered survivability is already very bad on live and will be exorbitantly worse due to the lower inital shield.
5) Shields on live are already pretty weak where you have to recast them every 1 or 2 sec even in many 1v1 situations. Cutting shield strength in half will make the problem only worse, increasing the need to shield stack - something we want to get rid off.
6) Lack of bar space to compensate for lower shields.

A solution could be something very similar to the Warden Shields, just not only for ranged attacks - i.e. have shields have a large size, but only absorb 3 to 5 attacks. At the same time get rid off stacking Ward + Annulment.

Though I still believe, there isn't really an issue with shields other than the psychological issue of not seeing HP drop when you hit the target thus depriving the opponent of a sense of accomplishment. Sorcs stacking Ward + Annulment can be annoying, but so can be templars combinging block + BoL, DK combining block + heal, NBs combining dodge + cloak, ....
The principle is the same, these combos are even often times far stronger than stacking 2 shields, but they don't deprive the opponent of a sense of accomplishment and are thus not perceived as strong as / stronger than shields.

1)You´re forgetting about hardened additional 23% - same goes for dampen.
2)You´d be getting about 6200 shield as spammable + 1850/s (if you ever played with an infused shield glyph you know this is substential dmg mitigation). This is also on a build with low bastion and only 43k magica so on the low to mediocre shieldstrengh end of the spectrum.
3)There is space if you´re no longer forced to slot harness over any alternative (the change would imo achieve this).
4 + 5 +6) have nothing to do with changes to shields and are general class problems and i don´t think you can make an actual argument around 1vX.
I personally think it would improve sorc playing experience if you´re smart instead of shieldbuttonmashing.

You´re also focusing way too much on the numbers - original posts says it´s an example and that would be very easy to adress if it proves to be too potent or too weak.

I do think there are problems with shields - albeit they´re exaggerated a lot on the forums and i do think changing them will improve gameplay experience for sorcs and when fighting them.

Personally i think a shield absorbing x attacks with no dmg would be downright horrible - have you ever thought about how many attacks a dot build dk or templar gets on you per second?
Embers, volatile (x2 if you attack him), breath, inferno, skoria whip aaand you´re already dead :P

1 + 2) 6150 Shielding will not be enough if the 12000 you are currently getting on live isn't. Even in 1on1 situations you will take more than 1850 DPS. Even the 3700 shielding you'd get from 2 shields is easily out DPS'ed, which means you'd have to recast your shields just as you have to currently on live. However, there will be one major difference: your recast shields will only have half the strength, bringing us back to the beginning of this point. You also have to keep in mind high burst combos will will easily break through the 1850 or 3700 shielding and squash the light armor wearer underneath due to the lack or resistences. And sorcs cannot really afford to wear LA sets that offer resistences as set bonuses as they already struggle with sustain when wearin sustain sets.

There also isn't much room to increase you max magicka beyond 43k as the stamina demand is just too high in PVP and DPS does not scale as well as with magicka as with spell damage, which is problematic since sorc damage has already taken quite a large hit in PVP.

3) But nothing changes about the need for Harness Magicka. On live you pretty much only use it before the fight starts and when you are fighting other magicka builds as a subsitute for Hardened Ward in order to not lose the "sustain battle". In the fights themselves you usally only use hardened ward since by time you get around to cast harness your hardened ward is already depleted and recasting hardened instead of casting harness offers you greater protection at lower cost, so there is really no reason to use harness outside of prolonged engagements against magicka builds.

4 + 5 + 6) I agree that balancing should not be done around 1vX. However, as long as ZOS is pushing large engagements and magicka defenses are already ridiculously outclassed by stamina mechanics in this regard I don't think making shields even weaker for this kind of engagement is a good idea without any compensation.
This problem also goes beyond 1vX and affects XvX where multiple targets might hit you (coincidentally), which is not a problem when you dodge, block, or have high resistences since they mitigate damage based on % rather than an amount. But you are pretty much screwed when you have neither of the above in abundance and have to rely on heals or shields with an upper limit.

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea, but it requires a lot of changes on many frontiers in order for it to be viable.

As for my focus on numbers:
My main point is that currently on live the amount of shielding (100%) is already oftentimes not enough, therefore anything below 100% cannot be enough. I would only work with a substantial buff to shields and there is no way you can sell that to stamina players. If you manage to solve the 1vX or XvX problem, then replsenishing shields would be very interesting. But even then the additional shielding per second would have to be high enough to incentivize players not to recast the shield and high enough to actually keep players alive.

You are right about the DoT builds though. I was way too focused on direct damage

But that could easily be fixed by having DoTs and direct hits count differently (e.g. 3 DoTs take away 1 stack / shielding against an attack, while 1 direct damage takes away 1 stack). Numbers would ofc have to be refined, this is just to illustrate the concept.

Galarthor · September 2018

Derra wrote: »

@ZOS_Wrobel @ZOS_RobGarrett

Different topic:

Now that runecage is telegraphed and dodgeable - wouldn´t it be reasonable to associate the dmg part of the ability to the stun hitting the target (remember thats dodgeable and telegraphed) instead of having it tied to the ability run it´s full duration which basically never happens in pvp anyway?
Not the stun breaking but the stun hitting the target (so we don´t get the delayed dmg problem again).

I think that would go a long way in making the ability an actual competetior to just slotting destructive touch.

Rune Cage definitely needs a better secondary effect to even be considered somewhat of a competitive choice. It could also be a buff or debuff added similar to what Fear got.

I hope ZOS will fix the shields fast so we can get down to the other issues sorcs have.

@Gnozo

That was my initial thought as well. Whenever I PvE'ed I found shields to be too strong (though I did not do the "perfected" trial runs).
Combined with preventing shield stacking that should have solved the issue, which is clearly PvE-based (see rep notes).

ArvenAldmeri · September 2018

So they revert really bad change to another really bad change that makes shield utterly useless in pve because it gets one shot. And because sorc don't have any reliable heal over time its really rip for sorc. Why they always have to do drastic changes instead of more smaller ones? My shield is about 20-24k in pve. Thats about 8k with this nerf. Want to nerf it this much? Give us something else as a valid replacement to stay alive. Or dont nerf it as much. Is this because of pvp? Make sheild capped based on health only in pvp. Too strong in your opinion in pve? Make it at least worth slotting because I am not slotting something that gets one shot instantly (yes, pve mobs one shot 8k shield), if you want to nerf it cap it at 15k sheild size, its still gonna be a really huge nerf for ppl used to 30k shield and big nerf to ppl with 20k shields. But like this its really useless even slotting. I dont know if I wanna ever come back to this game if all that happens is my main char getting nerfed to being more useless.

ezio45 · September 2018

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

Can we get a new Sorcerer feed back thread please. Now that the shield changes in 4.2.0 are being reverted most of the stuff in this 39 page thread is irrelevant.

still very relevant cuz the shield changes still suck and shields still arnt usable

Sange13 · September 2018

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/437982/class-reps-meeting-notes-september-25/p1

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote:

Sorcerer Shields:
We spent at least 30 minutes discussing shields. The gist of ZOS’s explanation to us what that they wanted to even the survivability between Stamina and Magicka (the specific example that a Magicka build could spam shields without paying attention to a Boss was used), ZOS wanted sorcerers to make more difficult decision regarding their class defense rather than just stack Magicka and have large shields, and ZOS feels that shields are quite a potent defense mechanic in that they are both excellent reactive and can be used proactively (something Breath of Life cannot do).

Every rep that spoke remarked that sorcerers already have to make difficult decisions with builds because sustain is an issue and lack of bar space, which means they already have trouble securing legit kills in PvP (i.e. not kill stealing by spamming mage’s wrath). We also noted that making shields so they can be critically hit was already a significant nerf that deserved testing on its own, and that the one-second cast-time will get sorcerers killed in a competitive PvP environment. We also said that ZOS has hit sorcerer offensive capability pretty hard the past year, which makes the sort of build diversity they want harder. They acknowledged this and did more than insinuate that sorcerer offense is going to be reformed in the future (at one point, a dev asked out loud if they could be specific. They could not). We told them without these offensive changes it was asking too much to hit the sorcerers with a nerf to their defense first and make them wait for this vague promise in the future. We also mentioned, numerous times, that the mechanic of cast-times is something that is disliked by many people because it breaks the flow of the fluid and ast paced combat that defines ESO. We also went through a bunch of other various reasons that folks on the forums and discords brought up. In short, we pressed and that’s why it lasted over 30 minutes.

With the changes to resistances, having instant cast damage shields is even going to make them even stronger in PvE. We acknowledged this as a potential issue and agreed some adjustment was going to be needed. ZOS seems to be open to refinements and reforms that match their desired goals. The Devs have indicated they are well aware of the feedback, they saw the memes, they know this is a huge change. Some ideas were bounced around. Someone (I forget who) brought up the possibility of lowering the shields to a desired size for PVE and adjusting Battlespirit so they aren’t useless in PvP. My impression is that ZOS is agreeable to making a different sort of adjustment, but they still want to keep their goals of Stamina Vs. Magicka survivability, want some sort of diversity into how sorcerers defend themselves, they don’t want a Magicka build spamming shields while ignoring PvE mechanics. The Devs ended our conversation with the thought whether or not a morph choice would be well received, that is if one morph had a one-second cast time and you got a large shield and another morph which removed the cast-time, but you’d get a smaller shield (the strengths were not mentioned specifically).

There’s only so much I can type and not every detail from our conversation is printed above. I came way from this conversation with the impression that the Devs are open. They know it’s a big change, they know there are potentially better ways to achieve their goals.

---

Sorcerers:
Much of their feedback was included in the discussion with shields. Sustain isn’t good, mobility took a hit, offense was nerfed, etc.

The week 2 changes to Dark Deal were needed and the skill is something that sorcerers can work with now.

We talked about sorcerer ultimates. The loss of a third bar from Overload has crowded sorcerers’ bars and ZOS is asking players to completely change how the class is played. ZOS indicated that they were thinking of changing one of the Ultimates into a Stamina morph since they were the only class that didn’t have one and the reps simultaneously said “Air Atronach”.

Overall we felt that from a Stamina sorcerer perspective, update 20 was more about what was being taken away, rather than was being added to make the class more interesting to play. The same, of course, is true from a Magicka perspective.

It seems to me that a reversal in the order of application might be in order. Provide the buffs to the class first, then dial back the areas that need it. Even if this creates a period where something might feel a bit OP for awhile, it's better than the opposite where players feel helpless. People rarely quit or unsub because their class is too strong!

Galarthor · September 2018

Sange13 wrote: »

It seems to me that a reversal in the order of application might be in order. Provide the buffs to the class first, then dial back the areas that need it. Even if this creates a period where something might feel a bit OP for awhile, it's better than the opposite where players feel helpless. People rarely quit or unsub because their class is too strong!

You fail to see the whole picture. Your class being OP means some other class is too weak causing those players to leave. And with your class being OP it is dominating all others, which means a lot of players playing a class that is too weak and therefore (potentially) leaving. While when all classes are balanced except for one which is too weak the number of potential leavers is limited to 1 class and thus far lower.

kind_hero · September 2018

So much effort to nerf the magsorc, because it is a glass cannon with a over-performing shield, but the sniper bow builds that spam snipe/poison injection which kill you in 2 shots are fine. I don't say nerf those, but somehow the argument of having to reduce the defences of a class that is already quite limited in defences, with a shorter ability bar than other classes, is hard to understand from this point of view.

Biro123 · September 2018

ArvenAldmeri wrote: »

So they revert really bad change to another really bad change that makes shield utterly useless in pve because it gets one shot. And because sorc don't have any reliable heal over time its really rip for sorc. Why they always have to do drastic changes instead of more smaller ones? My shield is about 20-24k in pve. Thats about 8k with this nerf. Want to nerf it this much? Give us something else as a valid replacement to stay alive. Or dont nerf it as much. Is this because of pvp? Make sheild capped based on health only in pvp. Too strong in your opinion in pve? Make it at least worth slotting because I am not slotting something that gets one shot instantly (yes, pve mobs one shot 8k shield), if you want to nerf it cap it at 15k sheild size, its still gonna be a really huge nerf for ppl used to 30k shield and big nerf to ppl with 20k shields. But like this its really useless even slotting. I dont know if I wanna ever come back to this game if all that happens is my main char getting nerfed to being more useless.

You really shouldn't look at it in terms of your current build. Major changes in mechanics like this means needing to change your build. Now you just need to drop a bit of mag and add a bit of health to make your shields stronger. For PVE, should be easy (not sure about the impact to end-game parses though, but it sounds like you're talking solo as you're mentioning no heals).
Just be happy you're not trying to figure this out for PVP, where they'll be taking a ton more damage from crits too!

visionality · September 2018

Dutchessx wrote: »

ruikkarikun wrote: »

Again, in my opinion there is another way to implement developers changes without cast time. That's it, I don't know how about all others, but I'm not asking them to leave all as on live server. I just want them to make their changes in other way, without cast time.

Why? I think cast time is wrong because let's face it - this game based on instant abilities, so that's why many of us enjoy it instead of other games.

What I would like to see from the developers is where are they going with the magicka version of the class. How do they see it fitting into end game play. If they are taking away my play style of being a mobile damage dealer, what is their vision for the class or is it just a mindless nerf?

@ZOS_GinaBruno, @ZOS_JessicaFolsom, @ZOS_Wrobel.

its just a mindless nerf

xericdx · September 2018

A part from the Shield discussion and the loss of the 3rd bar, can some of the players with access to PTS give us some feedbacks on how overload performs ?

The toogle to activate overload is instant or still clunky like it is live? How about light attacks ? Are they as responsive as normal light attack with possibility of animation cancelling or no? Tooltip after 60% nerf in comparison to Force Pulse?

Sorry for not checking myself but cannot download the PTS. Thanks in advance!

Emma_Overload · September 2018

xericdx wrote: »

A part from the Shield discussion and the loss of the 3rd bar, can some of the players with access to PTS give us some feedbacks on how overload performs ?

The toogle to activate overload is instant or still clunky like it is live? How about light attacks ? Are they as responsive as normal light attack with possibility of animation cancelling or no? Tooltip after 60% nerf in comparison to Force Pulse?

Sorry for not checking myself but cannot download the PTS. Thanks in advance!

It's good but not great. Getting in and out of Overload mode is reasonably fast. I wish the travel speed of the projectile was a little faster, but overall it works as advertised.

Most importantly: weaving light Overload attacks with regular skills WORKS. Careful testing will be required to see if the DPS boost compares favorably with other ultimates.

Chilly-McFreeze · September 2018

BaylorCorvette wrote: »

What would be nice for StamSorc is to move Dark Deal to Daedric Summoning and Bound Armaments to Dark Magic. That way a lot of us StamSorc can actually make use of the Daedric Protection passive. Then, make Blood Magic passive proc when you use bound armaments, would synergize with the "tank" aspect that ZoS is trying to push with Bound Armaments.

@BaylorCorvette
I have to disagree. Opportunity costs for BA would sky rocket. Which may or may not be a good thing because I can finally free myself from using it.
On live, by only slotting BA you gain: 8% stam, 2% weapon dmg, 20% health & stam regen, 11% light attack damage.
You'd lose the regen, which is really important. You could slot d/d instead to get the regen back but without it you'll lose 8% stam and la damage on your main bar, which is important as well.

But most importantly, you won't benefit from the blood magick passive because it says "When you hit an enemy with a Dark Magick Ability, you heal for 10% of your max health.". But you can't hit anyone with Bound Armor anyway.
It won't work like that, not if they don't change BM from "hit" to "use" or "get hit while active/slotted".
Get hit while slotted could make it overperforming.
Get hit while it's active is underperforming for stamsorcs because BA is only active for 3s, cost 2.8k+ stam but has a niché active part (which contradicts the either/or philosophy btw). But it could be interesting, if not again overperforming, for magsorcs since they could throw mines out in the wilderness for 30s and get potentially 60 heal ticks.
For BM as on use is too tiny as it's a one time heal of 5%-10% for it's cost.

Now on status quo:
On your main bar, you want as much damage as you can get, and right now Bound Armor buffs that and it buffs your regen as well. It's a strange skill since it's passive part screams damage but it's active part is for defense. It's nearly mandatory for a DD but it also becomes a dead slot. I think they should add something more universally useful to it.

I'd opt for something healing related, like a player-only vigor/ dark cloak, a burst heal or a good boost to health regen, which would synergyze well with the current Daedric Protection.

I'd even say sorcs need to become more mobile. Although I'd love to see a snare cleanse/immunity on Bolt Escape (it's already the mobility skill, so it would make sense), the second best option to add it would be this skill. You already get good benefits from slotting it, now a snare immunity would make it actual worthwile.

But that wouldn't solve the self-contradiction in times where ZOS wants you to be either offensive or defensive in your skill choice (which is a lame approach btw). So since this skill already gives offensive buffs, maybe it should become the spamable skill instead?
It probably sounds strange at first. But look at what other classes have as spamables, just as example:
NB get a stun & off balance (dmg boost) from sneak + major fracture (2nd dmg buff) or sneak speed + 438 crit rating (passives)
Templar get AoE & snare + major savagery or healing + Burning Light proc chance (passive)

So, with the skill's passives remain untouched and just added simple (single target) dmg component to it, it would be somewhat in line with other class spams passive wise, but numbers are of course always up to debate. But then your ba/dd swap proposal would also make sense, although I prefer constant 20% regen over 5%-10% heal every now and then.

Aldul · September 2018

Stibbons wrote: »

Macro instant cast sorc shieldstackers must stop and this is result.

[snip]?

[edited for profanity bypass]

technohic · September 2018

If total shield strength is universally set to 40% health, then they should remove battle spirit shield reduction.

visionality · September 2018

On a side note: This is the status-quo in PC EU's main PVP campaign, Vivec. It's 2 PM in the afternoon and the campaign is devoid of players. This is how attractive PVP is for players now. Imagine next patch, when the whole light armor class has been eradicated.

Galarthor · September 2018

Stibbons wrote: »

Macro instant cast sorc shieldstackers must stop and this is result.

So .... rather than address "cheating" itself your solution is to break the class and punish the 99.99% of innocent magicka players while it might not even affect the 0.01% cheaters? Great idea. I hope they never let you anywhere near a position of power.

Zer0oo · September 2018

xericdx wrote: »

A part from the Shield discussion and the loss of the 3rd bar, can some of the players with access to PTS give us some feedbacks on how overload performs ?

The toogle to activate overload is instant or still clunky like it is live? How about light attacks ? Are they as responsive as normal light attack with possibility of animation cancelling or no? Tooltip after 60% nerf in comparison to Force Pulse?

Sorry for not checking myself but cannot download the PTS. Thanks in advance!

The overload damage is ~2x of normal light attack damage. I just did some short testing but i found the damage poor and you do not recharge ulti while in overload mode. The activation works quite nice and weaving is like normal light attacks (overload just replaces them). The speed of them are the same as it is live. I personal do not really think overload is a good dps ulti but it helps with sustain.

Sange13 · September 2018

Galarthor wrote: »

Sange13 wrote: »

It seems to me that a reversal in the order of application might be in order. Provide the buffs to the class first, then dial back the areas that need it. Even if this creates a period where something might feel a bit OP for awhile, it's better than the opposite where players feel helpless. People rarely quit or unsub because their class is too strong!

You fail to see the whole picture. Your class being OP means some other class is too weak causing those players to leave. And with your class being OP it is dominating all others, which means a lot of players playing a class that is too weak and therefore (potentially) leaving. While when all classes are balanced except for one which is too weak the number of potential leavers is limited to 1 class and thus far lower.

I get where you're going with this, but that's not how it actually plays out unless that class is left in that OP state for a long time. If we're talking about an update every 2 weeks to tweak and fine tune it, especially if they are transparent about this approach, it would actually be just fine in the long run. I doubt many people would leave at all, especially since there would be new incentive to try out the changes and feel out the class; nobody sticks around to feel out class-breaking nerfs.

Thraben · September 2018

xericdx wrote: »

A part from the Shield discussion and the loss of the 3rd bar, can some of the players with access to PTS give us some feedbacks on how overload performs ?

The toogle to activate overload is instant or still clunky like it is live? How about light attacks ? Are they as responsive as normal light attack with possibility of animation cancelling or no? Tooltip after 60% nerf in comparison to Force Pulse?

Sorry for not checking myself but cannot download the PTS. Thanks in advance!

The animation of the activation is exactly the same as before. Yes, you can weave it. Your Ulti regeneration will suffer, though.
In PvE, it will probably help with sustained damage. Probably still worse than the possible air atronach.

In PvP, it´s not even enough to counter TrollKing´s health generation, unless you use a dedicated setup and waste a lot of bar slots (2-3) to make it work. Bar slots you no longer have without a third bar.

On life I can hit up to 35k with ONE OL light attack on a STAMSORC, not even with optimized equipment (Optimizing equipment for Overload makes not sense when you can expect that 60% of the players will absorb, reflect, dodge, or block it).

I need only 2 OL light attacks weaved with Silver Bolts against a clueless player before starting with Reverse Slice/ Steel Tornado.
On the PTS I need to waste 3 times the ulti for the same damage, and roughly twice the time.

I've already created a build today for the PTS version using Wrecking Blow to empower OL, but I have to admit that this will be more a toy for the "Battlemage" players amongst us, and that a StamBlade could do far more with a similar build without wasting Ulti or relying on one of the clunkiest skills in the game, just because Assassin´s Will is so much better. On MagSorcs, things are similar, or even worse, given how easy it has become to use Assassin´s Will for a ranged MagBlade player.

Aldul · September 2018

Galarthor wrote: »

Stibbons wrote: »

Macro instant cast sorc shieldstackers must stop and this is result.

So .... rather than address "cheating" itself your solution is to break the class and punish the 99.99% of innocent magicka players while it might not even affect the 0.01% cheaters? Great idea. I hope they never let you anywhere near a position of power.

Not speaking about a global cool down, of which I do not know how that could in any way be affected by either a m Macro (an "instant cast sorc" - what the hell @Stibbons, what the heck do you mean by that, can you elaborate?), nor "Cheaters".

ZOS_JesC · September 2018

Greetings, we've removed a few nonconstructive and derailing comments. This is a friendly reminder to keep comments on topic and make sure they contribute to the conversation in a constructive way. Thank you for your understanding.

Maulkin · September 2018

First off, thanks for at least listening. Capping shields on Max HP is pretty brutal but certainly better than having cast times.

My honest, non-sarcastic, question is:
If shield-stacking is effectively removed due to this cap on shield-size and any LA build can throw on Dampen Magic and basically hit the cap at 25k HP, then what exactly is the special defence of magSorc?

The class has terrible hots/passive heals and terrible damage mitigation or avoidance tools. Let me rephrase the question in a way it gives some perspective....

If a MagBlade can throw on Dampen Magic and get same shield size as MagSorc all the while having:

heals from many passive heals (Refreshing Path, Swallow Soul, Siphoning Attacks)
free Major Resolve/Major Ward from passives (which makes shields better)
25% AoE damage reduction from Double Take.
the ability to Cloak out, make attacks miss and suppress DoTs
high Minor Maim uptime on targets due to Fear/Shadow Image

…. then why on earth would I play magSorc? For Streak? Or because my shield is cheaper?

I'll be honest, I like the intention with this change and I don't want to overthrow it. But something needs to change with MagSorc. Make Blood Magic a much better heal, add Major Evasion to Boundless Storm, maybe remove Conjured Ward and give a different defensive skill while making "cheaper shields by x %" a passive.

Something, anything, to boost survivability without relying only on spamming shields.

AhPook_Is_Here · September 2018

since the 40% health check is a greater than or equal to function it will likely be outside the brackets of the battle-spirit calculation and likely will also benefit from the additional health from battle spirit. I'd test it before too many hysterics, I'd think most reasonable people would assume that's the way the calculation would be handled, it would be weird to do a greater than or equal to check and then multiply it by .5 again.

Galarthor · September 2018

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

since the 40% health check is a greater than or equal to function it will likely be outside the brackets of the battle-spirit calculation and likely will also benefit from the additional health from battle spirit. I'd test it before too many hysterics, I'd think most reasonable people would assume that's the way the calculation would be handled, it would be weird to do a greater than or equal to check and then multiply it by .5 again.

Still at the usual 20k to 23k health that's just 8000 to 9000 shielding and the 12000 you currently get from Hardened is already not enough. Sure you could increase your HP, but sorc already have sustain issues. Decreasing your magicka pool will only make matters worse. Besides a large HP pool doesnt mean much when your resistences are low. The only way to get resistences up is through heavy armor, but when you stack heavy armor the shields will be too strong. Sets that give you resistences are also not an option due to the ever-repesent sustain issues that ZOS refuses to address.

cpuScientist · September 2018

I have to be honest, FROM A PVE perspective. I like this change it is not a band-aid. It is a very VERY good change. We really need to be honest. Shields were just plain too strong in PvE, they trivialized a lot of mechanics. They were plain too good, far over performing. This is a GREAT change for PvE, adds skill adds suitability checks, makes health a little more wanted, so if we can get sustain to the point that we can comfortably use bi-stat food, and a tank is wearing ebon and a warden is present for minor toughness we will all be a a good health cap for trials. It opens up some potentially neat tanking situations for magSorcs in Pledges and the like. It in my most honest opinion is a good PvE change.

it is the same like magBlade, PvE shields took a big nerf PvE magBlades have taken a hit to their sustain AND to their role as off healers, with path either being a heal or damage with funnel being a heal or damage, now you have to make a CHOICE. Were those nerfs ABSOLUTELY, but does it actually better the game even out certain things I definitely think it does. GOOD CHANGES FOR PVE.

AGAIN FOR PVE these are good changes, do some of the numbers need to be moved around sure. That can be discussed.

cpuScientist · September 2018

For PvP I dont know yet how this changes things. Can they still be stacked, what are the other changes, because no matter what this is a shield nerf with NOTHING in the way of survivability added. I need to get on PTS and mess with the changes, Bastion will need a rework obviously. Some here like the dark deal change but I think that needs to be reworked. Cast time needs to be bye bye, unless they add sustain in other ways for PvE. Sorc still has problems. We have had problems for a while. We have been in a nerf loop with rune cage, we were thought to be too weak in dragon bones so they give us this crazy buff with Rune Cage, then nerf it in wolf hunter then kill it in MurkMire, but since Dragon Bones we have had zero ZERO changes that stuck that could be considered buffs. So I mean right now we are all slightly sighing relief that we are just nerfed but not destroyed. BUT WE NEED SOMETHING, they have some changes in mind, well ZOS now is the time this PTS cycle Murkmire cannot go live and it is just this shield change we get. We have been up sh**s creak without a paddle for long enough I thinks.

Good on you for listening to feedback, any that think a cast time is better need to re-evaluate your understanding of the game IMO. A cast time would have completely killed us, this we still have some wiggle room.

cpuScientist · September 2018

And yeah Air Atro is fine on the AOE morph. BUT really also give them AIR overload. Make the increased range just part of the base, and make regain stamina part of the air morph. And up light attack damage to 75% of what it is on live. Or you know revert all of that and just give us our 3rd bar. I honestly rather a dead ultimate for a 3rd bar than a well still dead ultimate and no 3rd bar lol.

AND please for the love of all do these following things.
1. Put the glowy eyes on dark deal for the 20 seconds it is up ( looking cool adds dps )
2. put the max stam and mag in passives and free us from bound armor let that be a full on tank skill PLEASE, open up our bars.
3. make dark deal instant cast lower the healing and instant resorce sustain, move that to the 20 second end and have it add a hot, or the heal act more like rally. where it is a hot and a sustain ability that we can activate again for a big burst heal.
4. Streak removes snares and immobilize.

There is a host of other things but start making some strides.

katorga · September 2018

…. then why on earth would I play magSorc? For Streak? Or because my shield is cheaper?

To be honest. Nightblade is just better than any other class, magicka or stam. The class passives are really, really good. It has everything necessary built into the class...sustain, healing, damage, armor/spell pen debuffs, multiple Cc options, good ultimates, a class spammable, an execute. So you are not limited by either weapons, armor type, or sets to fill in the gaps.

It has a magicka and stamina gap closer, that actually works consistently!

It has a 6 second 20% damage buff that stacks with major/minor berserk (which it also has)!

On top of all of that you get cloak and shades, which are totally unique abilities that no other class has.

You could make the same argument on why choose a sorc over a nightblade even before the most recent PTS.