PTS Update 20 - Feedback Thread for Sorcerer

katorga

Our supposedly unique class shield is now pretty equal with Harness.

it shields the pets, that is what is unique.

Everything about the class is based around the mechanics of being a pet class. I think that is why there are so many fire and forget skills like curse, wrath, liquid lightning. Free up time to micro-manage pets. The overload third bar was specifically there to provide enough skill slots with all of the triple-bar toggles sorcs have.

If they are going to persist with a 40% cap, sorc health should include pet health in the cap or change the passive for 10% health if pet is active boosted to 15% health per pet. That would keep the shields, maybe, reasonably large enough to keep pets alive, and also encourage pet use for larger shields. ZOS is perpetually trying to get sorcs to use pets.

With these changes pets also need to scale from both spell damage and magicka, scale better with CP, maybe make the now useless bastion CP specifically buff pets.

ezio45

katorga wrote: »

Our supposedly unique class shield is now pretty equal with Harness.

it shields the pets, that is what is unique.

Everything about the class is based around the mechanics of being a pet class. I think that is why there are so many fire and forget skills like curse, wrath, liquid lightning. Free up time to micro-manage pets. The overload third bar was specifically there to provide enough skill slots with all of the triple-bar toggles sorcs have.

If they are going to persist with a 40% cap, sorc health should include pet health in the cap or change the passive for 10% health if pet is active boosted to 15% health per pet. That would keep the shields, maybe, reasonably large enough to keep pets alive, and also encourage pet use for larger shields. ZOS is perpetually trying to get sorcs to use pets.

With these changes pets also need to scale from both spell damage and magicka, scale better with CP, maybe make the now useless bastion CP specifically buff pets.

as someone who hates pet builds good luck

there not even viable for half of eso's content

Malem_Benign

Hello again,

After watching this interesting show for some time I've finally get the idea.

So you want to remove the comfortable-evening play from the game for at least big number of players. Make their participation in PVP areas and BGs valuable only in a few specific sets. Make Veteran Dungeons a lot more harder to win, once again in a very few specific sets. Make every boss with K.O. shots a deadend. Make Solo Dungeons unbearable in any possible way, etc. Ruin single play, force to coop with specific chars with specific sets for each specific challenge.

There is no balance intention in that, please don't lie. You're far not the first. The only reason for such toxic changes is the forcing players to spend more and more time in the game and receive less and less satisfaction from the play, always stay unsatisfied. I see that you're in the beggining of that path, but you're going exact this way.

The only thing that is left - is to monetize in a proper way this constant dissatisfaction.

The idea is clear - the game considered too easy and comfotable for players and this affects in a bad way ZoS financial plans. That would be fixed.

Maulkin

katorga wrote: »

Our supposedly unique class shield is now pretty equal with Harness.

it shields the pets, that is what is unique.

Everything about the class is based around the mechanics of being a pet class. I think that is why there are so many fire and forget skills like curse, wrath, liquid lightning. Free up time to micro-manage pets. The overload third bar was specifically there to provide enough skill slots with all of the triple-bar toggles sorcs have.

If they are going to persist with a 40% cap, sorc health should include pet health in the cap or change the passive for 10% health if pet is active boosted to 15% health per pet. That would keep the shields, maybe, reasonably large enough to keep pets alive, and also encourage pet use for larger shields. ZOS is perpetually trying to get sorcs to use pets.

With these changes pets also need to scale from both spell damage and magicka, scale better with CP, maybe make the now useless bastion CP specifically buff pets.

Trying to make Sorcs use pets in PvP only achieves making them reroll magblades.

The vast, vast majority of magSorcs hate them. They hate that they need to be double barred, they hate the fact that they get stuck in obstacles, they hate that they can be easily killed (easier now with shield nerfs), they hate that they have cast-time to be re-spawned, they hate that they take 2-3 seconds to run up to targets before they start damaging. They hate them.

If the design was entirely different then maybe. But if my nana had nuts she'd be my grandad.

Vahrokh

Cronopoly wrote: »

Today, In Light Armor on Live, Swift Stamblades are wrecking everyone with Bleeds, Dawnbreaker, Spin to Win. Hard to target them with very fast Sonic play and as soon as you do, "smoke", they dissappear. Kudos to them for their awesome tools. I just want to compete a little.

Crittable shields, 40% and scalable off Health..., which I think was the goal all along. Negotiating 101, initially propose something ridiculous, then settle on what you wanted , and have it seen like a compromise. Meanwhile the other side gets screwed.

This whole scalable off health, which is interesting that LA gets nothing that synergises with Health unlike Heavy.
Why run Light Armor and Magicka at all in PVP for any class? What is the upside I'm missing.

The upside is that you can roleplay being a mage!

grannas211

Maulkin wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

Our supposedly unique class shield is now pretty equal with Harness.

it shields the pets, that is what is unique.

Everything about the class is based around the mechanics of being a pet class. I think that is why there are so many fire and forget skills like curse, wrath, liquid lightning. Free up time to micro-manage pets. The overload third bar was specifically there to provide enough skill slots with all of the triple-bar toggles sorcs have.

If they are going to persist with a 40% cap, sorc health should include pet health in the cap or change the passive for 10% health if pet is active boosted to 15% health per pet. That would keep the shields, maybe, reasonably large enough to keep pets alive, and also encourage pet use for larger shields. ZOS is perpetually trying to get sorcs to use pets.

With these changes pets also need to scale from both spell damage and magicka, scale better with CP, maybe make the now useless bastion CP specifically buff pets.

Trying to make Sorcs use pets in PvP only achieves making them reroll magblades.

The vast, vast majority of magSorcs hate them. They hate that they need to be double barred, they hate the fact that they get stuck in obstacles, they hate that they can be easily killed (easier now with shield nerfs), they hate that they have cast-time to be re-spawned, they hate that they take 2-3 seconds to run up to targets before they start damaging. They hate them.

If the design was entirely different then maybe. But if my nana had nuts she'd be my grandad.

did you just assume your Nana's gender?

Vahrokh

ezio45 wrote: »

Honestly I dont know what to do at this point. We have been over this for weeks and their answer is this. This is as bad if not worse than the cast time

Don't be so negative!

We could have been completely trounched and only unsub-worthy OR be borderline worthless as a DPS class.

With the current development team, we are "lucky" we have "just" been steered towards borderline worthless instead of being steered towards unsub-worthy!

Vahrokh

Biro123 wrote: »

ArvenAldmeri wrote: »

So they revert really bad change to another really bad change that makes shield utterly useless in pve because it gets one shot. And because sorc don't have any reliable heal over time its really rip for sorc. Why they always have to do drastic changes instead of more smaller ones? My shield is about 20-24k in pve. Thats about 8k with this nerf. Want to nerf it this much? Give us something else as a valid replacement to stay alive. Or dont nerf it as much. Is this because of pvp? Make sheild capped based on health only in pvp. Too strong in your opinion in pve? Make it at least worth slotting because I am not slotting something that gets one shot instantly (yes, pve mobs one shot 8k shield), if you want to nerf it cap it at 15k sheild size, its still gonna be a really huge nerf for ppl used to 30k shield and big nerf to ppl with 20k shields. But like this its really useless even slotting. I dont know if I wanna ever come back to this game if all that happens is my main char getting nerfed to being more useless.

You really shouldn't look at it in terms of your current build. Major changes in mechanics like this means needing to change your build. Now you just need to drop a bit of mag and add a bit of health to make your shields stronger. For PVE, should be easy (not sure about the impact to end-game parses though, but it sounds like you're talking solo as you're mentioning no heals).

1) Why magsorcs have to drop mag and add health, not a single other class has to.

2) Our parses are mediocre and after update 20 we'll be at the bottom with wardens already. So the "impact" on end game parses will be the usual trial leaders are asking me again and again: "can you come on your magblade?"

Vahrokh

Maulkin wrote: »

First off, thanks for at least listening. Capping shields on Max HP is pretty brutal but certainly better than having cast times.

My honest, non-sarcastic, question is:
If shield-stacking is effectively removed due to this cap on shield-size and any LA build can throw on Dampen Magic and basically hit the cap at 25k HP, then what exactly is the special defence of magSorc?

...

…. then why on earth would I play magSorc? For Streak? Or because my shield is cheaper?

Someone has to be the "gazelle" or "AP source". It's years Magsorcs are able to kill some potatoes but they are the ESO official premiere AP source for the others. Magsorcs are the nondescript guys you see being farmed in the other classes videos when proper PvP classes do 1vX.

Feric51

My question is, will champion points into Bastion give an increase above the 40% health limit or not?

Right now in PvE, my base Hardened Ward tooltip is sitting at about 60% of my health with 0 points in Bastion, not counting the 23% morph bonus! This would save me those 50-60CPs I have in Bastion if it doesn't push it past the 40% HP threshold.

MalagenR

These changes makes no sense if they don't let us know how Bastion will be impacted and how Battle Spirit will impact shield size.

bardx86

Maulkin wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

Our supposedly unique class shield is now pretty equal with Harness.

it shields the pets, that is what is unique.

Everything about the class is based around the mechanics of being a pet class. I think that is why there are so many fire and forget skills like curse, wrath, liquid lightning. Free up time to micro-manage pets. The overload third bar was specifically there to provide enough skill slots with all of the triple-bar toggles sorcs have.

If they are going to persist with a 40% cap, sorc health should include pet health in the cap or change the passive for 10% health if pet is active boosted to 15% health per pet. That would keep the shields, maybe, reasonably large enough to keep pets alive, and also encourage pet use for larger shields. ZOS is perpetually trying to get sorcs to use pets.

With these changes pets also need to scale from both spell damage and magicka, scale better with CP, maybe make the now useless bastion CP specifically buff pets.

Trying to make Sorcs use pets in PvP only achieves making them reroll magblades.

The vast, vast majority of magSorcs hate them. They hate that they need to be double barred, they hate the fact that they get stuck in obstacles, they hate that they can be easily killed (easier now with shield nerfs), they hate that they have cast-time to be re-spawned, they hate that they take 2-3 seconds to run up to targets before they start damaging. They hate them.

If the design was entirely different then maybe. But if my nana had nuts she'd be my grandad.

Those that can PVP do, those that can't summon pets.

cpuScientist

bardx86 wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

Our supposedly unique class shield is now pretty equal with Harness.

it shields the pets, that is what is unique.

Everything about the class is based around the mechanics of being a pet class. I think that is why there are so many fire and forget skills like curse, wrath, liquid lightning. Free up time to micro-manage pets. The overload third bar was specifically there to provide enough skill slots with all of the triple-bar toggles sorcs have.

If they are going to persist with a 40% cap, sorc health should include pet health in the cap or change the passive for 10% health if pet is active boosted to 15% health per pet. That would keep the shields, maybe, reasonably large enough to keep pets alive, and also encourage pet use for larger shields. ZOS is perpetually trying to get sorcs to use pets.

With these changes pets also need to scale from both spell damage and magicka, scale better with CP, maybe make the now useless bastion CP specifically buff pets.

Trying to make Sorcs use pets in PvP only achieves making them reroll magblades.

The vast, vast majority of magSorcs hate them. They hate that they need to be double barred, they hate the fact that they get stuck in obstacles, they hate that they can be easily killed (easier now with shield nerfs), they hate that they have cast-time to be re-spawned, they hate that they take 2-3 seconds to run up to targets before they start damaging. They hate them.

If the design was entirely different then maybe. But if my nana had nuts she'd be my grandad.

Those that can PVP do, those that can't summon pets.

What do you mean? I don't understand this comment.

codestripper

So here is my biggest pain point at the current moment with my sorcerer, and sorry this might be a little long.

My pet sorc has been my main for over 3 1/2 years. Here is my current build for reference:


Now, as you can see, my playstyle Is shielding, and when I take damage, I use my matriarch as my main heal. This is my playstyle and It works quite well for me. I don't really like the randomness of surge so I don't use it. Not only that, but I really don't have room for it on my bar if I want to keep my damage as high as possible.

The reason I like my current setup is because I have very good survivability, not the highest damage in the world (43k compared to all other classes), and really good sustain with heavy attacks (I can parse a 25 million health dummy with no drop in sustain or DPS).

So my biggest thing for next patch is, how will I be compensated for the dip in survivability? And of course "Will I be able to even use this setup next patch?"

The reason I ask the latter is because I really do not think I can rely on a 7-8k shield to keep me alive long enough to get a full rotation in. As it stands right now I can't even do that with my current shield. It drops off before I finish my rotation, and I either need to re-shield mid-rotation, or hit my pet (which works well enough for me). Will I now have to unslot my healing pet or one of bound aegis or inner light in order to slot crit surge? My shield surely will not be enough anymore.

If I do need to get rid of one pet or one buff, then that leaves me with less DPS overall, on a class that isn't exactly known for its damage this patch...And a class I can't even bring into some trials due to pet mechanics...Like....I will still play this class because I love my pet sorc, but I just want to make sure my point is understood. We DO need something in compensation to give incentive to play a pet sorc in PvE. Either some sort of unique group utility, or some form of DPS increase or survivability increase. As it currently stands, pet sorcs will be overshadowed by almost every other class in the game in a PvE environment. I do agree that we needed something done about the damage shields, and ANYTHING is better than a cast time at this point. I'm just concerned about my, and newer player's future interest in my favorite class.

cpuScientist

codestripper wrote: »

So here is my biggest pain point at the current moment with my sorcerer, and sorry this might be a little long.

My pet sorc has been my main for over 3 1/2 years. Here is my current build for reference:


Now, as you can see, my playstyle Is shielding, and when I take damage, I use my matriarch as my main heal. This is my playstyle and It works quite well for me. I don't really like the randomness of surge so I don't use it. Not only that, but I really don't have room for it on my bar if I want to keep my damage as high as possible.

The reason I like my current setup is because I have very good survivability, not the highest damage in the world (43k compared to all other classes), and really good sustain with heavy attacks (I can parse a 25 million health dummy with no drop in sustain or DPS).

So my biggest thing for next patch is, how will I be compensated for the dip in survivability? And of course "Will I be able to even use this setup next patch?"

The reason I ask the latter is because I really do not think I can rely on a 7-8k shield to keep me alive long enough to get a full rotation in. As it stands right now I can't even do that with my current shield. It drops off before I finish my rotation, and I either need to re-shield mid-rotation, or hit my pet (which works well enough for me). Will I now have to unslot my healing pet or one of bound aegis or inner light in order to slot crit surge? My shield surely will not be enough anymore.

If I do need to get rid of one pet or one buff, then that leaves me with less DPS overall, on a class that isn't exactly known for its damage this patch...And a class I can't even bring into some trials due to pet mechanics...Like....I will still play this class because I love my pet sorc, but I just want to make sure my point is understood. We DO need something in compensation to give incentive to play a pet sorc in PvE. Either some sort of unique group utility, or some form of DPS increase or survivability increase. As it currently stands, pet sorcs will be overshadowed by almost every other class in the game in a PvE environment. I do agree that we needed something done about the damage shields, and ANYTHING is better than a cast time at this point. I'm just concerned about my, and newer player's future interest in my favorite class.

Drop inner light, use critical surgical, and change heal morph to damage morph for Matriarch. Critsurge in PVE especially with all those dots and lightning channel will keep you fine and dandy.

Pets also have reduced costs. So that's a nice sustain buff.

cpuScientist

Not saying it's better. But yeah. Also what content was Killing your shields that bad? Like VMA or something? Cause if you have a tank. I mean they should have taunt.

codestripper

cpuScientist wrote: »

Not saying it's better. But yeah. Also what content was Killing your shields that bad? Like VMA or something? Cause if you have a tank. I mean they should have taunt.

oh lets see, vMoS, vMHK, any vet DLC dungeon or trial at certain parts. vMA my shield doesn't really drop too bad unless it's round 5.

cpuScientist wrote: »

Drop inner light, use critical surgical, and change heal morph to damage morph for Matriarch. Critsurge in PVE especially with all those dots and lightning channel will keep you fine and dandy.

Pets also have reduced costs. So that's a nice sustain buff.

The damage morph is garbage, I actually get lower DPS because I have to waste time to cast it. Crit surge is good you're right, but dropping inner light is dropping 5% of my max magicka, which is not good for a pet sorc (I have also tested this). Why do I have to sacrifice even more DPS when I already can't compete with most classes? If anything I will either swap out the shield entirely for crit surge and swap to the thief, or see how it is on the PTS and work with it. And I think I already mentioned that I do not have any sustain issues so the changes to pet cost really doesn't help much.

Edit: I will do more experimenting when I get back from work to see what numbers I would be pulling with each setup on the PTS and report back, but I've tried this before on Live with a decrease in DPS by about 3k.

I'm just saying, either way, we're getting a big nerf. We deserve something to compensate.

Miswar

Read the patch notes and mind boggled yet again! Seriously do you guys at ZoS play your own game? (That is serious question)

Maybe someone from the COMBAT TEAM make official live broadcast and show us how overpowered the mag sorc is with current LIVE settings? That ain't happening because that is load of....!

Now you remove the cast time but make shield crittable and scale from MAX Health. In your wisdom your throwed few darts and ended up with number 40!

Really wake up! That would basically mean if you would like run light armour sorc in PvP (health around 20-23k with battllespirit) have shield around 4k!!!!! Without battle spirit it would be around 8k!

You have stam wardens, dk's, Templars with 4000-5000 weapon damage running full HEAVY armours without sustain problems and having resistances above 30k. You might want to stun them.. hmmm..no chance.. lets just pop Forward momentum and ignore that..etc. That the vision you have for PvP content? Come on!

You have stamblades who can with snipes hit +11k already without any crittable shields. Snip, Snip, light attack and poison injection = RIP.

You have magica templars with BoL spamming +15k heals for themselves without sustain issues and still damaging without any problems. Mist form seems to their favorite escape as well... and yes they can spam it almost indefinately.

You have troll builds which needs to have +15 people hitting to knock them down!!!

You starting to get the picture? After these proposed changes crittable shields with scaling from max hp... well you have broken the essence of class and have taken out class completely. There really is not many mag sorcs even running at the PvP currently so now they become nearly extinct. Why would people play it? There is not reason to it.

Also the ZoS developer refered to Sorcs having heals??? Please do clarify. You mean twilight matriarc which is utterly useless in open world PvP.. you mean surge? Whch really is not going to save your ass due to people having high crit resistances anyways. So please what heals are you refering to?

Your PvP servers are already like old bike wihout wheels most of the times.. due to zergs etc. What is the vision with this? Why I ask that in sorc thread you might ask. Well .. NEGATES.. one of the very few effective ways to try and kill those zerg groups. Now that you are making sorcs all but extinct will you bug STAMINA wardens with that ability too?

I wohn't even to further into PvE but just amuse yourself and use ACTIVITY finder and do some vet dungeons. You might notice that bulk of shield based people are not even surviving with CURRENT live enviroment. So while you are doing very good alienating your veteran based players and you doing the same for these people. You actually think that they come here looking for builds. Most of them don't.. they simply concule "screw this..." and never play the game again.

Already pointed out many flaws with your logic past week and 0 people could prove those wrong. Now that you will have 3000-4000k shields you think you solved the issues? Da dam.. Suprise.. you have NOT done anything of that sort.

It is your game and you are entitled to do with whatever you like. We as customers are entitled as well and my eso+ ended 2 days again and there is 0% of me (and many friends) renewing that with this nonsense.

Also this is the very last post regarding this subject. Provided a lot of details and the thanks was forum warning and 5 day ban. Adding that up kind of fits with the above.

Was there sarcasm with above post? Yes there was but this is feeling like blind man trying to guide his guide dog home. Should be other way around ofc.'

The same goes for this forum as well. There is remarks aand suggestions from people that have NEVER even played the class. They are just salty of whatever reasons or just trolling.

Just remember that people do play this game because they a) like the class and b) the class functions and is somehat fun. You can handout 100 mansions for free and that will conpensate for the the two things.

...enough of this. Wasted too much time here already. Just PLAY YOUR GAME don't just make random nerfs.

Irylia

While we are prepping ourselves for another barrage of sorc critique can we take some time to push for goblin poly.
1. Make it similar to the skeleton poly quest useable in cyro.
2. Crown store poly
3. Unlock shadow silk gem
4. Goblin racial

I want to be a goblin in cyro again.

Malem_Benign

I'm not getting only one thing.

You, players - why you discuss which nerf is better and which is worse?
Maybe better to discuss why something should be nerfed at all?
Or at least why PVE changes aren't going to be separated from PVP ones?

callen4492

I don't understand the 40% of max health shields at all? Does this mean shields will be larger in PvP zones than in PvE because of the extra 5,000 health in PvP? The limiting factor on shields will now always be max health. This doesn't make much sense.

katorga

Malem_Benign wrote: »

I'm not getting only one thing.

You, players - why you discuss which nerf is better and which is worse?
Maybe better to discuss why something should be nerfed at all?
Or at least why PVE changes aren't going to be separated from PVP ones?

Accept the premise and you've lost half the argument. Conversely, if you set the premise, you've won half the argument. Works everywhere in life.

katorga

ezio45 wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

Our supposedly unique class shield is now pretty equal with Harness.

it shields the pets, that is what is unique.

Everything about the class is based around the mechanics of being a pet class. I think that is why there are so many fire and forget skills like curse, wrath, liquid lightning. Free up time to micro-manage pets. The overload third bar was specifically there to provide enough skill slots with all of the triple-bar toggles sorcs have.

If they are going to persist with a 40% cap, sorc health should include pet health in the cap or change the passive for 10% health if pet is active boosted to 15% health per pet. That would keep the shields, maybe, reasonably large enough to keep pets alive, and also encourage pet use for larger shields. ZOS is perpetually trying to get sorcs to use pets.

With these changes pets also need to scale from both spell damage and magicka, scale better with CP, maybe make the now useless bastion CP specifically buff pets.

as someone who hates pet builds good luck

there not even viable for half of eso's content

Never said pets were any good, but that is what the class is designed around, and ZOS has been perpetually trying to get them used. In my experience they are only good soloing stuff or duels, very niche. In MMOs pet classes are a notoriously risky choice for a player. They wrap up so much ability in the pets that the class is hobbled without them, and then the pets either don't keep pace with power creep, fail to scale well, and keep the class from being buffed because "they have pets". Goes all the way back to the magician class in Everquest - and that had the best pet system I've ever seen in an mmo.

ezio45

katorga wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

Our supposedly unique class shield is now pretty equal with Harness.

it shields the pets, that is what is unique.

Everything about the class is based around the mechanics of being a pet class. I think that is why there are so many fire and forget skills like curse, wrath, liquid lightning. Free up time to micro-manage pets. The overload third bar was specifically there to provide enough skill slots with all of the triple-bar toggles sorcs have.

If they are going to persist with a 40% cap, sorc health should include pet health in the cap or change the passive for 10% health if pet is active boosted to 15% health per pet. That would keep the shields, maybe, reasonably large enough to keep pets alive, and also encourage pet use for larger shields. ZOS is perpetually trying to get sorcs to use pets.

With these changes pets also need to scale from both spell damage and magicka, scale better with CP, maybe make the now useless bastion CP specifically buff pets.

as someone who hates pet builds good luck

there not even viable for half of eso's content

Never said pets were any good, but that is what the class is designed around, and ZOS has been perpetually trying to get them used. In my experience they are only good soloing stuff or duels, very niche. In MMOs pet classes are a notoriously risky choice for a player. They wrap up so much ability in the pets that the class is hobbled without them, and then the pets either don't keep pace with power creep, fail to scale well, and keep the class from being buffed because "they have pets". Goes all the way back to the magician class in Everquest - and that had the best pet system I've ever seen in an mmo.

There is an entire functioning type of build that has nothing to do with pets

codestripper

ezio45 wrote: »

as someone who hates pet builds good luck

there not even viable for half of eso's content

I had no idea vAS was half of the games content

Vahrokh

cpuScientist wrote: »

codestripper wrote: »

So here is my biggest pain point at the current moment with my sorcerer, and sorry this might be a little long.

My pet sorc has been my main for over 3 1/2 years. Here is my current build for reference:


Now, as you can see, my playstyle Is shielding, and when I take damage, I use my matriarch as my main heal. This is my playstyle and It works quite well for me. I don't really like the randomness of surge so I don't use it. Not only that, but I really don't have room for it on my bar if I want to keep my damage as high as possible.

The reason I like my current setup is because I have very good survivability, not the highest damage in the world (43k compared to all other classes), and really good sustain with heavy attacks (I can parse a 25 million health dummy with no drop in sustain or DPS).

So my biggest thing for next patch is, how will I be compensated for the dip in survivability? And of course "Will I be able to even use this setup next patch?"

The reason I ask the latter is because I really do not think I can rely on a 7-8k shield to keep me alive long enough to get a full rotation in. As it stands right now I can't even do that with my current shield. It drops off before I finish my rotation, and I either need to re-shield mid-rotation, or hit my pet (which works well enough for me). Will I now have to unslot my healing pet or one of bound aegis or inner light in order to slot crit surge? My shield surely will not be enough anymore.

If I do need to get rid of one pet or one buff, then that leaves me with less DPS overall, on a class that isn't exactly known for its damage this patch...And a class I can't even bring into some trials due to pet mechanics...Like....I will still play this class because I love my pet sorc, but I just want to make sure my point is understood. We DO need something in compensation to give incentive to play a pet sorc in PvE. Either some sort of unique group utility, or some form of DPS increase or survivability increase. As it currently stands, pet sorcs will be overshadowed by almost every other class in the game in a PvE environment. I do agree that we needed something done about the damage shields, and ANYTHING is better than a cast time at this point. I'm just concerned about my, and newer player's future interest in my favorite class.

Drop inner light, use critical surgical, and change heal morph to damage morph for Matriarch. Critsurge in PVE especially with all those dots and lightning channel will keep you fine and dandy.

Pets also have reduced costs. So that's a nice sustain buff.

1) Only these devs could have thought it's a good idea to sell as a buff the cost reduction on pets. They are used on heavy attack rotations, that didn't have sustain issues at all. On the contrary, pet-less builds are getting the bone.

2) "Drop inner light, use critical surge": yeah I do this on vCR for portals. And you know what? Doing it, means 2-3k less DPS, on a pure, no utility "DPS" class that sits close to the bottom of the DPS ranks already!

Vahrokh

cpuScientist wrote: »

Not saying it's better. But yeah. Also what content was Killing your shields that bad? Like VMA or something? Cause if you have a tank. I mean they should have taunt.

Last time I checked I don't get ANY tank where it matters:

- vCR portals.
- vMOL meteors running
- vMOL backroom running
- hm AA
- vHRC and mh HRC last boss starfalls
- vHOF 2nd boss top room running
- vAS last boss endless terrain DoTs, huge flames phase / sudden lightning pools and so on.

ruikkarikun

@ZOS_RobGarrett
@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_Wrobel

Hi. Thank for listening and changes.
But still it seems you want to nerf sorcerer to the ground.
I'm scared about PVE.
You said about "builds should have tradeoffs in reduced survivability".
Like I'm scared about 40% shiled for pets. If they will die too often whole build will be ruined.

But main point is about you think shileds make sorcerer overpowered compared to others. Which is not.
Let's see LIVE server now. Sorcerer in PVE.

• Pet build are not viewable for vet trials (maybe for 1-2 like Atherius Archive but not like Halls of Fabrication etc)
• Sorcerer has far far less dps then magicka nightblade.
• Sorcerer has bad sustain
• Sorcerer has ZERO debuffs
• Bad selfhealing (power surge is weak)
• Low stamina pool, can't use block, roll dodge as any stamina dps
• sorcerer dosen't have vigor

So why you still think sorcerer need sacriface somesthing for defence? I don't understand. In your notes you said about bad sustain and pets who die a lot so why do you nerf defence and keep saying that sorcerer need sacriface stats etc for defence?

I agree that shield stacking is strong, So why can't you make shields not stackable? Somehow. Because single shield is must have for PVE veteran end game. Or you need to buff sustain then if you think 40% shield is enough. Because it's not enough. Again on Live server sorcerer are bad at sustain and endgame vet trials and you make it more more weaker. Where is the logic?

As for PVP again just make shield critable and not stackable.

Why other classes (both stamina and magicka) don't need to invest point into hp, use survability sets and sorcerer after your nerf need? Nerfed class which will be the weakest in the next patch need also sacriface dps for survability? It's insane really.

Hope you can test that 40% HP, and pets problem, and find good solution without cast time. Again sorcerer has bad sustain on LIVE server.

I hope you won't nerf sorcerer to ground, thanks.

Tonturri

Please just leave the armor res change and crittable change as is. Adjust the PvE value if you need to and then adjust how much battle spirit cuts shields accordingly. Shields aren't too strong in PvP to start and the crit change is enough of a nerf. Maybe let shields crit and call it a day.

Vahrokh

Tonturri wrote: »

Please just leave the armor res change and crittable change as is. Adjust the PvE value if you need to and then adjust how much battle spirit cuts shields accordingly. Shields aren't too strong in PvP to start and the crit change is enough of a nerf. Maybe let shields crit and call it a day.

Imo shields "sweet spot" for nerf would be 60%, not 40%.

Sadly on PTS I can only solo stuff, my guilds won't play vet and hm trials in there, but "by nose" I think 60% shield strength would be okay. It would still cause a lot of deaths in some specific encounters but it would not be crippling.
40% is too low for the cost. Either reduce magicka cost by 30% or leave strength to 60%.