One of my trial guilds sorc class leader has contacted me to say that if the 1s "poop-motion" shield nerf goes live, he will switch to his templar (he has already done so) and I'll have to switch to another class too (stamsorc not allowed).

Thank you ZOS, for ruining my trials career in the guild I've done most of my progressions achievements!

P.S. I have 5 PvE sorcs. Five. And 1 magblade with 10h playtime and purple gear, which also got the nerf this patch. A magblade I don't like to play. That's it. Now please tell me why I should keep playing ESO.

The main problem with the changes to shields is IMO the thought that something as a purely "proactive" defense can exist in esos fast paced combat environment for both pvp and pve without creating massive problems along with it (that are subjectively way worse than the problems shields currently pose on live).

It couldn´t be further from reality.
Looking at a pvp scenario from now on:
On live the only situation where a shield works as a proactive defense mechanism is applying them before the fight started. After this point shields (or rather refreshing them) become a reactive defense mechanism just like every heal in the game.
A sorcerer shield build on the current live server effectively replaces their HPbar with their shield bar in combat - with refreshing shields being the equivalent to healing (with the pros and cons that shields currently have). *2

Why is the goal of having shields work as a proactive defense problematic?
Let´s imagine a situation where we have a working proactive defense in form of shields - what could constitute such a mechanic as vaible?
Pretty much the mandatory working condition would be to allow it to absorb the average incoming dmg of atleast one competent player, while at the same time creating an offensive window + allowing enough time to refresh the mechanic (combined with other means of dmg mitigation - but since block doesn't work on shields and dodge is a stamina based defense those are somewhat neglible reserverd for emergencies). Why? Because all reactive defenses and the mixed bags (like hots) allow you to do just that.
What would be a reasonable shieldvalue to be looking at to meet that criteria?
If we assume an incoming 4.5k dps from one enemy player (which isn´t really on the high end of the spectrum considering they´re most likely hitting light armor with ~15 to 20k resistances max that they can also crit now *1) a shield would have to withstand that for lets say ~ 2.5s offensive window + another 1.5s to reapply the shield (this assumes 2 barswaps + 2 offensive spells cast with weaved LA + 1s casttime for the shield and 0.2s animation after hardcast). This would mean you´d need atleast 18k SINGLE shield (4.5k dps against 4s timeframe) on application for that defensemechanic to become even remotely vaible.
Why do i say remotely vaible here? Because this theoretical scenario does not account for any form of spike dmg be it burst abilities, a string of lucky crits, ultimates or proccs.

So with the conservative approach of having a (still very vulnerable) 18k shield on application. Can anyone see why this would be problematic?
Probably because this would be balancing the shield on the assumption that the player using it intends to be offensive after application.
Can you imagine what it would result in when someone only refreshes (maybe multiple layers of) their proactive defense? It would be a nightmare and broken (basically an a lot worse version of the current live problems when stacking shields).

The problem with the current iteration on the PTS is: The proactive defense simply does not account for or allow any form of offensive windows - and still gets broken down and the player being in a position where they can only defend gets killed without the chance to ever become offensive in the first place.
That´s broken aswell. A defense that doesn´t allow for any sort of offensive play in return is pointless and may aswell not exist.


@ZOS_Wrobel @ZOS_RobGarrett

*1 as a point of reference: currently on my magicaDK or magicaNB i will average between 5 and 6k dps against shielding sorcerers - without being able to crit them while being in a position where any light armor resistances get 100% pierced.
The offensive window + shieldstrengh discussed for the post is really an immensely conservative estimation and would most likely need to be higher.

*2 This is also why i think shields are perceived as such a big problem - the games base UI layers the shield in a barely visible texture over the actual HP without showing shieldstrengh or %.
Simply implementing a seperate shieldbar into the base UI would solve some of the perceived issues with shields.

Sange13 wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

One of my trial guilds sorc class leader has contacted me to say that if the 1s "poop-motion" shield nerf goes live, he will switch to his templar (he has already done so) and I'll have to switch to another class too (stamsorc not allowed).

Thank you ZOS, for ruining my trials career in the guild I've done most of my progressions achievements!

P.S. I have 5 PvE sorcs. Five. And 1 magblade with 10h playtime and purple gear, which also got the nerf this patch. A magblade I don't like to play. That's it. Now please tell me why I should keep playing ESO.

This is the danger of having a "main." I do too (Templar), but if this happened to mine, I have 4 other characters at cap. I'd just have to grind out their SPs and some of their skill lines. Other that that, I'd be okay, albeit extremely unhappy about having to do that.

Well, I have a "main" because:

- It's the class I play in all MMOs since before 2000.
- It's the class I like. In WoW I could switch to Warlock and in GW2 I could switch to Necro. What "mage" / "summoneer" flavoured class is here in ESO? Magblades are just "rogues gone ranged" not a class that inspires me.
- Undaunted, achievements, mage guilds etc. are all "alt-hostile" mechanics. I have most hard mode vet trials on my main sorc, you don't randomly stumble upon hm vMOL guilds who take your undergeared alt to repeat it!

Ipslor wrote: »

ku5h wrote: »

As it looks like right now, only thing that will keep me in the game post this *** is class respec token.

Never gonna happen. Grind it all over again or persist in the doomed world ZOS have created.

Who knew a 1s cast time could be so destructive?!

Sange13 wrote: »

Ipslor wrote: »

ku5h wrote: »

As it looks like right now, only thing that will keep me in the game post this *** is class respec token.

Never gonna happen. Grind it all over again or persist in the doomed world ZOS have created.

Who knew a 1s cast time could be so destructive?!

I'd wager that if there had never been a cast time increase we'd be having this same level of discussion regarding shields being able to be crit, procced, etc.

Vahrokh wrote: »

One of my trial guilds sorc class leader has contacted me to say that if the 1s "poop-motion" shield nerf goes live, he will switch to his templar (he has already done so) and I'll have to switch to another class too (stamsorc not allowed).

Thank you ZOS, for ruining my trials career in the guild I've done most of my progressions achievements!

P.S. I have 5 PvE sorcs. Five. And 1 magblade with 10h playtime and purple gear, which also got the nerf this patch. A magblade I don't like to play. That's it. Now please tell me why I should keep playing ESO.

Yeah I already moved all my sorcs gear to my magplar and built him for pvp. Sadly my sorc's won't be played anymore.

@ZOS_Wrobel @ZOS_RobGarrett its okay to be wrong and make mistakes no one will blame you for it, but the first step is to accept that you did something wrong and to do something about. Instead, you are just being stubborn with a change no one agrees with and instead of taking the massive amount of player feedback from players that know the game better than you ever will (not your fault some of us play 24/7) you choose to ignore everything and negatively impact a game we all love

ezio45 wrote: »

helped 15+ players <lvl50 kill a crab world boss last night..... thats something that i wont be able to do in murkimire....

or really do anything besides craft.......

Craftmanship is really undervalued in our modern society. Everybody wants to be something fancy these days.

Never mistake motion for action

Ernest Hemmingway

I really wanted to provide some feedback in regards to the sorc nerf. However, I can’t download the pts for some reason. So I have been trying to work out builds on paper. I think all of us who have played sorc for a long time, I have played sorcerer since pre-launch, can come up with something but the the problem is that it isn’t viable, I speak from a pvp standpoint. I also don’t know how I am going to farm gear in pve as a sorc either. All of us can put on heavy armor or make builds with protective sets. However, in doing so we loose what makes our class special and distinctive and we lose how we want to play. I can say I did agree with the reduction of shields from 20 seconds but I thought 6 seconds was to short, I thought 10 seconds would have been better. Now we will have cast time and critable shields if these nerfs go live. Usually I main a Templar for group play and I like my sorcerer to solo on. I play mostly no cp servers and the only builds I can see might be possible are on cp servers but even then with the increased damage I don’t know if they are viable. These nerfs really sadden me I love this game it has been so fun & I have met a lot of wonderful people here. I don’t know what this game has for me in the future. I guess the advertisement of play how you want is for all classes unless you are a magic sorcerer or a magicka class that depends on the light armor shield.
Further, I know if these changes go live I do not believe magicka sorc will be viable in no cp. I encourage those in charge of making these recommendations to listen to the community and maybe take a magic sorcerer for a spin on Sotha Sil and in BG’s (make sure to simulate a decent MMR so you get premades that know how to pvp) and then go back to the drawing board and scrap these proposed changes on the pts. As things are I can do pretty well on any server I choose to play. However, I can’t tell you how many times when I come up on a player that knows how to kill a sorcerer that my shields have fractured and killed in an instance because there wasn’t time to react. With these changes I expect to be dead more often than doing any sort of damage. Thanks for reading.
- Dutchessx Out.

ruikkarikun wrote: »

Again, in my opinion there is another way to implement developers changes without cast time. That's it, I don't know how about all others, but I'm not asking them to leave all as on live server. I just want them to make their changes in other way, without cast time.

Why? I think cast time is wrong because let's face it - this game based on instant abilities, so that's why many of us enjoy it instead of other games.

What I would like to see from the developers is where are they going with the magicka version of the class. How do they see it fitting into end game play. If they are taking away my play style of being a mobile damage dealer, what is their vision for the class or is it just a mindless nerf?

@ZOS_GinaBruno, @ZOS_JessicaFolsom, @ZOS_Wrobel.