PTS Update 20 - Feedback Thread for Sorcerer

Jsmalls · September 2018

joaaocaampos wrote: »

I edited my suggestion up there:

joaaocaampos wrote: »

Let's make the Sorcerers less dependent on the damage shields, buffing Blood Magic Passive!
Blood Magic (Dark Magic Passive): Hitting an enemy with a Sorcerer Magicka ability heals you for 5%/10% Maximum Health. This effect can occur once every 2 seconds.

Conjured Ward: This ability and its morphs now have a 1-second cast time, previously an instant cast.

After using Conjured Ward, the next use within 4 or 6 seconds costs 35% more. That is...

Conjured Ward: Conjure globes of Daedric energy for protection, granting a damage shield for you and your pets that absorbs X Damage for 9 seconds. Casting again within Y seconds cost 35% more Magicka.

Obs.:
Blood Magic effect can occur once every 2 seconds (not 0.5 seconds) because it happens when hitting an enemy with any Sorcerer skill!

Y: 4 or 6 seconds. And the Magicka cost will increase by 35%, not 50% as Bolt Escape.

Annulment will work the same way.
Annulment: Surround yourself with a net of magic negation damage shield to absorb up to X Damage over 9 seconds. Casting again within Y seconds cost 35% more Magicka.

Optional change
Conjured Ward and Annulment share the same cooldown. So...

"(...) Casting Conjured Ward or Annulment again within Y seconds cost 35% more Magicka."

@ZOS_RobGarrett @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @Tasear

@joaaocaampos

See this is exactly what every sorcerer is talking about. You don't just KILL an entire defense mechanism.

While I'm not sure 10% of 22k health halved by battlespirit and reduced by debuffs every 2 seconds would suffice (maybe in combination with power surge it would at least help) at least you made an attempt at compensating for the change.

I want any member of Zos's balance team (or company in general) to present a viable Magicka Sorcerer build that is competitive in cyrodiil. Even a pvp pet Sorc build (one that is not exactly a fan favorite) isn't viable with this "balance" change.

You can't leave a class without a reactive defense mechanism in a fast paced combat game. That's called breaking a class.

Heymexa · September 2018

m-Sorcerer PVE 4.2.0
Overload 4.2.0

Animating the use of this ability is much longer than the animation of an light attack. This will become a serious problem. Could be the cooldowns.

Animation activation ability is also very long. This greatly slows down the rotation.

m-Sorcerer PVP 4.2.0

Rip

No tools for survival.

killmove · September 2018

joaaocaampos wrote: »

I edited my suggestion up there:

joaaocaampos wrote: »

Let's make the Sorcerers less dependent on the damage shields, buffing Blood Magic Passive!
Blood Magic (Dark Magic Passive): Hitting an enemy with a Sorcerer Magicka ability heals you for 5%/10% Maximum Health. This effect can occur once every 2 seconds.

Conjured Ward: This ability and its morphs now have a 1-second cast time, previously an instant cast.

After using Conjured Ward, the next use within 4 or 6 seconds costs 35% more. That is...

Conjured Ward: Conjure globes of Daedric energy for protection, granting a damage shield for you and your pets that absorbs X Damage for 9 seconds. Casting again within Y seconds cost 35% more Magicka.

Obs.:
Blood Magic effect can occur once every 2 seconds (not 0.5 seconds) because it happens when hitting an enemy with any Sorcerer skill!

Y: 4 or 6 seconds. And the Magicka cost will increase by 35%, not 50% as Bolt Escape.

Annulment will work the same way.
Annulment: Surround yourself with a net of magic negation damage shield to absorb up to X Damage over 9 seconds. Casting again within Y seconds cost 35% more Magicka.

Optional change
Conjured Ward and Annulment share the same cooldown. So...

"(...) Casting Conjured Ward or Annulment again within Y seconds cost 35% more Magicka."

@ZOS_RobGarrett @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @Tasear

Shield stacking should be removed also because it's 100% game breaking

Gnozo · September 2018

killmove wrote: »

joaaocaampos wrote: »

I edited my suggestion up there:

joaaocaampos wrote: »

Let's make the Sorcerers less dependent on the damage shields, buffing Blood Magic Passive!
Blood Magic (Dark Magic Passive): Hitting an enemy with a Sorcerer Magicka ability heals you for 5%/10% Maximum Health. This effect can occur once every 2 seconds.

Conjured Ward: This ability and its morphs now have a 1-second cast time, previously an instant cast.

After using Conjured Ward, the next use within 4 or 6 seconds costs 35% more. That is...

Conjured Ward: Conjure globes of Daedric energy for protection, granting a damage shield for you and your pets that absorbs X Damage for 9 seconds. Casting again within Y seconds cost 35% more Magicka.

Obs.:
Blood Magic effect can occur once every 2 seconds (not 0.5 seconds) because it happens when hitting an enemy with any Sorcerer skill!

Y: 4 or 6 seconds. And the Magicka cost will increase by 35%, not 50% as Bolt Escape.

Annulment will work the same way.
Annulment: Surround yourself with a net of magic negation damage shield to absorb up to X Damage over 9 seconds. Casting again within Y seconds cost 35% more Magicka.

Optional change
Conjured Ward and Annulment share the same cooldown. So...

"(...) Casting Conjured Ward or Annulment again within Y seconds cost 35% more Magicka."

@ZOS_RobGarrett @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @Tasear

Shield stacking should be removed also because it's 100% game breaking

Ehm, why? It is strong but not game breaking. Sorcs can still be killed by proper burst + CC and timing.

Mihael · September 2018

most pve and pvp players that play the game most don’t agree with the shield changes yet zos doesn’t listen smh

Spiritrush · September 2018

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

Patch 4.2.1 - Hardened Ward cast time

I tried some intense solo combat against a lot of resource and flag guards in Cyrodiil. I'm losing a lot of fights that I know I can regularly win on live.

The cast time on Hardened Ward is too much. Stopping for what seems like a very long second to lay an egg in the middle of intense solo combat just turns you into a sitting duck. Hardened Ward is now a liability, and without it the whole character will need to be rethought and rebuilt.

The fighting style that makes Mag Sorc distinct from other classes is going to be impossible to use, except for fighting trash mobs and delve bosses.

IMHO I think that adding cast times to shields is a big mistake.

Very well put - any capable player can now burst you down at will, or keep you busy for a few extra seconds until your resources run out to the need for continuously sustained shields, rather than the need to react with shields which is fundamental to the Sorc play-style and sustain. I don't think the Devs recommending these changes play a Sorc in Cyrodiil, BGs, or Dueling.

Giraffon · September 2018

<sigh> I must accelerate my crafting research on my sorc so he can do something useful before the patch hits.

Someone suggested that sorcs should get crafting bonuses now. I think that's a good idea since we're going to be totally worthless for anything else.

I've been playing since beta and this is definitely in the top 5 worst things they've ever done.

ZOS_JesC · September 2018

Greetings, we've removed a few more comments that were nonconstructive to the conversation, including some that were bashing. This is a friendly reminder to keep comments on topic and constructive. Please consider our forum rules before posting. Thank you.

pizzaow · September 2018

I've been experimenting with a sorc tank, which brings some unique utility; negate, faster movement with hurricane and one big positive is an overload bar that can be used to slot additional skills that would be unavailable on other classes (I can run lightning wall, crushing shock, ele drain and still have room on the overload bar for blood alter, bone shield and other utility functions).
I've always felt that a 3rd bar provides something unique and fun for a sorc; I've run with some that would swap to that bar to lay down mines and buffs between rounds in vDSA, and another that would swap to that bar to run backyard in vMoL (streak, boundless storm, etc).
In other words it seems that overload was either used for the 3rd bar OR for dps. I like the changes to overload for dps purposes, however it would be nice to keep a morph that still provides the 3rd bar.

oxygen_thief · September 2018

killmove wrote: »

Shield stacking should be removed also because it's 100% game breaking

can somebody show me this immortal game breaking build which can hold the ground and tank a bunch of players and has huge damage at the same time? do you have a video of it in a high mmr battleground match against decent players? i will change my mind immediately and will be in the forefront of a nerf sorcs movement if you will do it but for now this thread is just a feast of sorc haters.

Sebar80 · September 2018

oxygen_thief wrote: »

killmove wrote: »

Shield stacking should be removed also because it's 100% game breaking

can somebody show me this immortal game breaking build which can hold the ground and tank a bunch of players and has huge damage at the same time? do you have a video of it in a high mmr battleground match against decent players? i will change my mind immediately and will be in the forefront of a nerf sorcs movement if you will do it but for now this thread is just a feast of sorc haters.

For potato player any sorc build is op. Today someone posted on general channel a video of cp capped sorc killing with elegant overload 3 100cp players including one sorc as a definite proof sorc deserve all the nerfs.

The problem is single class potato players with tunnel vision demanding nerfs on sorcs

Chilly-McFreeze · September 2018

joaaocaampos wrote: »

Oh, dear, that will not work, because it would benefit Stamina Sorcerer as well. I'll edit it again.

And what's wrong about a class passive benefiting both sides of the class? It's not like they have many sources of class damage anyway (2 to be exactly, while 1 is an RNG execute) and half their passives are useless anyway.

HappyElephant · September 2018

They have to stop nerfing entire classes. It should be fun to play a sorcerer DPS, nightblade DPS or warden DPS. ZOS's way of nerfing decimates the characters we have built.

Why can't they buff the other classes to make them fun to play too?

Sorcerers and NB are not OP especially in PVE.
They are just better DPS compared to the other classes.

They should buff the weak classes so they too are fun to play.

Lord_Eomer · September 2018

Imagine Battlegrounds and No CP campaign without damage shields (with 1 sec, no one is going to use it or will die while casting) in light armor where Stam got everything: high burst damage + dodgeroll's + AOE Damage Reduction (effective against destro ults) +vigor + rally + troll king,

I doubt this patch Magicka is going to survive! this is clearly a wrong move and will be a regretful decision.

JadonSky · September 2018

killmove wrote: »

I think the best way to fix shields in PvP and in PvE is:
1- To remove shields stacking
2- Make it insta cast
3- Like dodging make the cost higher when recasted before 5 sec.

I think option 2 is a must followed by either option 1 or option 2 but probably not both. Sadly I feel like ZOS didn't put any effort into this change and just copied the same code from the pet summoning ability and pasted it into Harden ward and thought it would work. And in theory I guess it does prevent shield stacking but it also killed the Sorc because there instant defense was hardenward like NB and cloak or Templar and breath of life. So now did they not only stop shield stacking but they removed the Sorc's instant defense ability like other classes have. This is why cast time is not a good balance and needs to removed.

Now this change does also affect all magic light armor users but I know this forum is specific to the sorc.

visionality · September 2018

rosendoichinoveb17_ESO wrote: »

Destary wrote: »

rosendoichinoveb17_ESO wrote: »

I just know that only the top leader-boards will be able to complete vAS+2 and vCR+3. My group does 100k+ score in vAS and I know that we will need at least 10 hours of practice to even clear the thing with the shield cast times as a lot of people will be dead and the group will wipe because of that. You cannot just avoid the one shot mechanics there if not casing a shield. If you have a one second of cast time on the shield while someone near you is targeted with the poison cone you are just going to die. Dodge rolling this mechanic also results in insta-deaths in most cases are usually people need to shield and block walk away from the cone. Also people will not be able to cast a shield while kiting the meteors as it will slow their movement and result in a certain death.

As suggested by other members here there are a lot of better alternatives to nerf shields rather than that horrible cast time:

- increase the cost of consecutive shield casts (the same as how streak functions)
- decrease the the shield strength

There are probably more good alternatives, but adding a cast time will kill the PvE trial environment for new players and progression groups. Basically the only groups that will be affected the least are the ones that can do no-death and speed runs which are only a few. This is a horrible idea and hopefully it gets changed or a lot of us will just stop going to trials (there is no point to struggle as a magicka character, better go with a full stamina group now with bow/bow for ranged setups except if you are part of that 0.0001% of the player-base).

This is a solution for PVE players but not for PVP players. At this time the sorc need to be up. Shields in PVP are useless against oblivion damage, we are the only class who have a counter set so, why nerf shields ?

You proposed to increase the cost of consecutive shields. In PVP you need you shield all second, so you solution is crapy, like ZoS cast time.

You proposed to decrease the shield strength ? Now the meta is full stamina and they can kill you shield in 1 seconde.

So where is your solution ? If it's that, it's just crap and isn't sufficient.

As someone suggested they can make two morphs of the shields: one for PvP and one for PvE (with no cast time). This will make both parties happy.

wait ... you want to say "one for PVE and one for PVP (with no cast time)". THIS will make both parties happy.

Feric51 · September 2018

visionality wrote: »

rosendoichinoveb17_ESO wrote: »

Destary wrote: »

rosendoichinoveb17_ESO wrote: »

I just know that only the top leader-boards will be able to complete vAS+2 and vCR+3. My group does 100k+ score in vAS and I know that we will need at least 10 hours of practice to even clear the thing with the shield cast times as a lot of people will be dead and the group will wipe because of that. You cannot just avoid the one shot mechanics there if not casing a shield. If you have a one second of cast time on the shield while someone near you is targeted with the poison cone you are just going to die. Dodge rolling this mechanic also results in insta-deaths in most cases are usually people need to shield and block walk away from the cone. Also people will not be able to cast a shield while kiting the meteors as it will slow their movement and result in a certain death.

As suggested by other members here there are a lot of better alternatives to nerf shields rather than that horrible cast time:

- increase the cost of consecutive shield casts (the same as how streak functions)
- decrease the the shield strength

There are probably more good alternatives, but adding a cast time will kill the PvE trial environment for new players and progression groups. Basically the only groups that will be affected the least are the ones that can do no-death and speed runs which are only a few. This is a horrible idea and hopefully it gets changed or a lot of us will just stop going to trials (there is no point to struggle as a magicka character, better go with a full stamina group now with bow/bow for ranged setups except if you are part of that 0.0001% of the player-base).

This is a solution for PVE players but not for PVP players. At this time the sorc need to be up. Shields in PVP are useless against oblivion damage, we are the only class who have a counter set so, why nerf shields ?

You proposed to increase the cost of consecutive shields. In PVP you need you shield all second, so you solution is crapy, like ZoS cast time.

You proposed to decrease the shield strength ? Now the meta is full stamina and they can kill you shield in 1 seconde.

So where is your solution ? If it's that, it's just crap and isn't sufficient.

As someone suggested they can make two morphs of the shields: one for PvP and one for PvE (with no cast time). This will make both parties happy.

wait ... you want to say "one for PVE and one for PVP (with no cast time)". THIS will make both parties happy.

I don't PvP and I want nothing to do with a cast time. vMA with a cast time on shields is possible, but sure isn't nearly as much fun. No thanks for cast time in PvE.

It's all hot air anyway, ZOS has repeatedly said they're not balancing skills for PvP/PvE separately.

JadonSky · September 2018

Feric51 wrote: »

wait ... you want to say "one for PVE and one for PVP (with no cast time)". THIS will make both parties happy.

I don't PvP and I want nothing to do with a cast time. vMA with a cast time on shields is possible, but sure isn't nearly as much fun. No thanks for cast time in PvE.

It's all hot air anyway, ZOS has repeatedly said they're not balancing skills for PvP/PvE separately.

They say that but yet Negate works differently in PVP/PVE. In PVE it stuns everything within the field but the stun does not work against players because they thought that part was too powerful for PVP. They are never consistent with what they say. If they were they would also add cast time to cloak and breath of life because those are reactive defense skills as well.

joaaocaampos · September 2018

Please, @ZOS_RobGarrett revert shields cast time and follow my suggestion!

Conjured Ward: Conjure globes of Daedric energy for protection, granting a damage shield for you and your pets that absorbs X Damage for 9 seconds. Casting (Conjured Ward or Annulment) again within 5 seconds cost 35% more Magicka.
Annulment: Surround yourself with a net of magic negation damage shield to absorb up to X Damage over 9 seconds. Casting (Conjured Ward or Annulment) again within 5 seconds cost 35% more Magicka.

Tannus15 · September 2018

HappyElephant wrote: »

They have to stop nerfing entire classes. It should be fun to play a sorcerer DPS, nightblade DPS or warden DPS. ZOS's way of nerfing decimates the characters we have built.

Why can't they buff the other classes to make them fun to play too?

Sorcerers and NB are not OP especially in PVE.
They are just better DPS compared to the other classes.

They should buff the weak classes so they too are fun to play.

Yeah, not sorc. You can get better dps on templar, dk and even warden now.
RIP Sorc pve

Faint_One · September 2018

Not a good change with dark deal
whatever high resource it recover，it still waste time and low our dps

arasysb14_ESO · September 2018

Anyone heard anything from class reps about shields? They had a meeting today, I hope their silence doesn't mean ZOS will ignore players' feedback again.

Cronopoly · September 2018

I'm taking the Rocky line on Sorc, If he dies, he dies. We started the game with 4 classes, I'll treat it like it only has 4 if this goes live. I hate eveything about whata is proposed, but I'm done b#$%^ing about it.

Abandoning Sorc seems a plausible option. Playing my Templar and DK PVP, and will see if my Nightblade is enjoyable in Light Armor for PVE. If not I';ll convert her to PVP only as well for BG's.

Witar · September 2018

rosendoichinoveb17_ESO wrote: »

I just know that only the top leader-boards will be able to complete vAS+2 and vCR+3. My group does 100k+ score in vAS and I know that we will need at least 10 hours of practice to even clear the thing with the shield cast times as a lot of people will be dead and the group will wipe because of that. You cannot just avoid the one shot mechanics there if not casing a shield. If you have a one second of cast time on the shield while someone near you is targeted with the poison cone you are just going to die. Dodge rolling this mechanic also results in insta-deaths in most cases are usually people need to shield and block walk away from the cone. Also people will not be able to cast a shield while kiting the meteors as it will slow their movement and result in a certain death.

As suggested by other members here there are a lot of better alternatives to nerf shields rather than that horrible cast time:

- increase the cost of consecutive shield casts (the same as how streak functions)
- decrease the the shield strength

There are probably more good alternatives, but adding a cast time will kill the PvE trial environment for new players and progression groups. Basically the only groups that will be affected the least are the ones that can do no-death and speed runs which are only a few. This is a horrible idea and hopefully it gets changed or a lot of us will just stop going to trials (there is no point to struggle as a magicka character, better go with a full stamina group now with bow/bow for ranged setups except if you are part of that 0.0001% of the player-base).

You know that devs can actually take things that you proposing and add them to already existing changes? Cause voices in thier heads told them so.

ezio45 · September 2018

Cronopoly wrote: »

I'm taking the Rocky line on Sorc, If he dies, he dies. We started the game with 4 classes, I'll treat it like it only has 4 if this goes live. I hate eveything about whata is proposed, but I'm done b#$%^ing about it.

Abandoning Sorc seems a plausible option. Playing my Templar and DK PVP, and will see if my Nightblade is enjoyable in Light Armor for PVE. If not I';ll convert her to PVP only as well for BG's.

Thats your choice but I wont abandon my class, if sorc is dead then there is little reason for me to play eso above any other game with my friends

cpuScientist · September 2018

Okokokokok.

Take dark deal and move it to bound armor. That way Sorcs get a new skill they can use, get to have glowing eyes again and bound armor has a purpose. Then take the extra Stam and mag on bound armor and move it to passives.

THEN take that dark deal slot and give us a slowing dot. And have a Stan morph for it as well.

cpuScientist · September 2018

The new dark deal is kind of a buff sure. But just still Garbo for PVE. Complete Garbo. Utter Garbo. Make it Instant and let the heal work like rally. Give us 2k immidiately and 4k+ over 20-25 seconds.

BretonMage · September 2018

SenorCrouch wrote: »

Man this sucks. As the days countdown, the more and more it seems like this shield cast time is going to hit live. Talk about depressing.

I’m definitely depressed about this. I can’t play petsorc anymore if this goes live. Cast time to shield; pet dies; cast time to resummon; rinse and repeat; die a lot.

jluchau · September 2018

I'll ad my voice to others. I don't like some of these changes. The shield cast time is the hardest to deal with as it takes away my ability to protect myself in a way that feels like I'm reacting to whats going on. If I can't use shields to protect myself as a magsorc then I'll need something else and this will most likely cause me to no play as a magsorc anymore. I understand allowing crits, but I don't understand the cast time. It would be like adding a cast time to people trying to block with a traditionally equipped shield. I understand trying to find balance, I don't understand this.

Aldul · September 2018

arasysb14_ESO wrote: »

Anyone heard anything from class reps about shields? They had a meeting today, I hope their silence doesn't mean ZOS will ignore players' feedback again.

I'm really afraid. I want to continue playing BUT there is no way some of us, including me, will stay in the game at all with this. I bet, they have heard it a lot (and they might have ignored it a lot), but it's legit feedback. Just a pity.

Thats your choice but I wont abandon my class, if sorc is dead then there is little reason for me to play eso above any other game with my friends

My Money won't continue to go to sub either, after 4 years +, I can tell you that, ZOS. DONT BREAK THE BALANCE LIKE THAT