@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_MattFiror @ZOS_Wrobel

If a Sorc tank has to have a cast time on his/her shield, then it's honestly only fair if all others have the same. Bone Shield, Igneous Shield, Sun Shield, Crystalized Shield.

Please level the playing field.

So.. Just to make sure I understand this correctly...when Murkmire comes out, the sorcerer has no instant damage mitigation skill in their kit, or one that is magicka based? Surely I am just missing it.

Super_Bubus wrote: »

To be honest I don't like playing against a magsorc in BG or Cyro (for the very few times I go there). Why? Because players just brainlessly spam Ward+Harness/Dampen and Overload from their spawn in BG or run around doing the same. Of course it's not all, I've seen others play with Rune Prison which was fine I mean I accept being caught in a hard CC (even before Prison got nerfed) and suffer the burst that results from it. But brainless gameplay I don't.. Lazy players aren't good players.

So using shields is "brainless" ? Looks like dodging or blocking or hit cloak only genius capable for.

@Onmari

I gave up trying to interpret their ideas. I'm convinced they do not play the game enough to understand the impact, but maybe I'm wrong. I doubt it though. Granted, most of the community was inflamed against sorcs (mainly due to PvP). If you look at the class reps post by Gina you'll see most think the Sorc is actually very powerful, survivable, and sustainable. It was definitely very survivable and had some utility going for it, but that is mostly gone now.

I've already created a post to discuss a possible solution (and perhaps someone else has already done so in this thread, but I can't be bothered to read 33 pages to find it), but I wanted to post it here to bounce some feedback, because I think most of us are unhappy with ANY cast time on shields.

So, rather than have a cast time at all, why not make these 2 shields (Conjured Ward and Annulment, and their respective morphs) unable to be stacked on top of each other. In other words, if you cast C. Ward first, then cast Annulment, it will replace C. Ward's previously cast effect, and vice versa (apply this to their respective morphs as well). Apparently everyone is complaining about shield stacking Sorcs, so this would help alleviate the issue in PvP, while not punishing other light armor classes who also rely on Annulment for survival.

And while you're at it, make it so both of these shields cannot be stacked with SELF CAST Steadfast Wards (apply this to it's morphs as well).

BUT, if someone else happens to cast Steadfast Ward and it is applied to you, it can still stack with Conjured Ward and/or Annulment. That way, some random PuG or group member won't accidentally overwrite your own shield, and it gives healers more of a purpose as shield appliers for their allies in both PvP and PvE.

One last thing, make it so self cast Annulments can't stack with other self cast shields either, just to make it fair across all classes (and as not to single out Sorcs).

Side Note: Shield stacking with other shields (not including Annulment and it's morphs) isn't really a problem, as most of the other shields in the game are FAR smaller in size compared to C. Ward and Annulment, are attached to long cooldowns, or are infrequent, such as with ultimates like Take Flight. So leave those be.

I believe these changes, in addition to having shields be able to be crit and have resistances applied to them, but NOT have any sort of cast time would be a fair compromise for both PvE and PvP. Perhaps a slight buff to shield size (no more than 5%-10%) to Conjured Ward and Annulment to make up for the complete lack of stacking.

What do you guys think?

Sigh. Yet another badly thought out change that does nothing but break something that never needed fixing in the first place. Obviously Zos knows best and isn't willing to listen to the community. So... nothing new.

I won't bother repeating all the well thought out arguments for why a cast time for shields is a bad idea. It doesn't solve any of the "problems" that Zos imagines to exist, and it will make classes that rely on shields that now have a cast time to be essentially unplayable in any difficult content.

Obviously Zos hasn't tried the higher vCR difficulties, vAS, vHOF or vMOL HM. Have fun doing those on a mag sorc without a working shield. Have fun running back room vMOL without a shield on a sorc. Could it be done? Maybe. But why would you when Zos broke a basic skill that was class-defining for … no good reason? It's pathetic.

Just one more nail in the coffin.

bardx86 wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

Patch 4.2.1 - Hardened Ward cast time

I tried some intense solo combat against a lot of resource and flag guards in Cyrodiil. I'm losing a lot of fights that I know I can regularly win on live.

The cast time on Hardened Ward is too much. Stopping for what seems like a very long second to lay an egg in the middle of intense solo combat just turns you into a sitting duck. Hardened Ward is now a liability, and without it the whole character will need to be rethought and rebuilt.

I haven't tried it in PvP, but the effect of the cast time must be even worse given the added high mobility and split second reaction times required for PvP combat.

The fighting style that makes Mag Sorc distinct from other classes is going to be impossible to use, except for fighting trash mobs and delve bosses.

IMHO I think that adding cast times to shields is a big mistake.

On live, every pvp build is built to centered around 1-3 shields instant cast shields defensively. It makes sense that the same build on PTS wouldn't work.

The point of the change was to change the way large, cheap shields are used, not to make them weaker. It is for this reason I don't believe zos will respond to the suggested alternatives to the cast time: they all either prevent shield stacking or hurt shield sustain. These are both things the devs are not (at least primarily) trying to do.

Sustain will be hurt in a big way. No longer can shield be used reactively which mean that shield will have to be maintain every sec of play. This will cause an over pay for shields.

Ofc sustain will be hurt. I only said that the dev's primary goal is not to reduce sustain^. I was pointing out that the alternatives that people keep spamming (minor/major system, stacking cost, ect) won't stand out to the devs because these ideas do not accomplish the change the devs are trying to make.

It was too easy to throw a bunch of effective health on yourself while making a minimal sacrifice in terms of DPS itemization and rotation.

Honestly if you can get the same dps on any other class it's time to move on from sorc in PvE.
They provide little to no group utility in the current meta. they don't have the highest dps and they don't have the highest survivabilty.
Their AoE isn't powerful enough to make them the "trash clearer" class.

premature #1000 attempt

The first shock about the ward cast time is gone, I'm curious how it all will turn out. It's still an absolute stupidity and will render a huge number of light armor builds unplayable because there is barely any compensation.

I'll probably try to destroy Alessia Bridge at least once when the update launches, I hope I can make it that far in cloth without a reliable ward.

Guess how many Sorcs toons are going to the bottom of the new list now that we will be able to re-order the character list.

Cronopoly wrote: »

Guess how many Sorcs toons are going to the bottom of the new list now that we will be able to re-order the character list.

I can tell you there will be at least one...

rosendoichinoveb17_ESO wrote: »

I just know that only the top leader-boards will be able to complete vAS+2 and vCR+3. My group does 100k+ score in vAS and I know that we will need at least 10 hours of practice to even clear the thing with the shield cast times as a lot of people will be dead and the group will wipe because of that. You cannot just avoid the one shot mechanics there if not casing a shield. If you have a one second of cast time on the shield while someone near you is targeted with the poison cone you are just going to die. Dodge rolling this mechanic also results in insta-deaths in most cases are usually people need to shield and block walk away from the cone. Also people will not be able to cast a shield while kiting the meteors as it will slow their movement and result in a certain death.

As suggested by other members here there are a lot of better alternatives to nerf shields rather than that horrible cast time:

- increase the cost of consecutive shield casts (the same as how streak functions)
- decrease the the shield strength

There are probably more good alternatives, but adding a cast time will kill the PvE trial environment for new players and progression groups. Basically the only groups that will be affected the least are the ones that can do no-death and speed runs which are only a few. This is a horrible idea and hopefully it gets changed or a lot of us will just stop going to trials (there is no point to struggle as a magicka character, better go with a full stamina group now with bow/bow for ranged setups except if you are part of that 0.0001% of the player-base).

This is a solution for PVE players but not for PVP players. At this time the sorc need to be up. Shields in PVP are useless against oblivion damage, we are the only class who have a counter set so, why nerf shields ?

You proposed to increase the cost of consecutive shields. In PVP you need you shield all second, so you solution is crapy, like ZoS cast time.

You proposed to decrease the shield strength ? Now the meta is full stamina and they can kill you shield in 1 seconde.

So where is your solution ? If it's that, it's just crap and isn't sufficient.

Sange13 wrote: »

Cronopoly wrote: »

Guess how many Sorcs toons are going to the bottom of the new list now that we will be able to re-order the character list.

I can tell you there will be at least one...

I can prove there will be more than two. All PVP/PVE arguments are clearly mentioned and there is nothing to add than this change is simply the mistake. Period.

I'd like to shout for kinda mana character ban if this will go live, but people are free do think themselves. At least, I do quit my manasorc as vet dd/healer until it is yet again viable to play.

There is still a "nevertheless wanna play this trash" opportunity, because manasorc is still possible as manatank with anyway certain limitations (lack of group utility due to sets' selection, incompetent stamina), but focusing on high hp and mana will let them have bone shield (instacast yet), block through ice staff on mainbar, thus save low stamina pool for silver bolt morph and occasional pierce armor (fractures) from S&B backbar. This kind of tank is cool with self-defending utilities, has ranged taunt by default, own healing pet, and ok-ish mana recovery opportunity. I do currently some training runs to check if this build is possible in vet dungeons, but I have strong concerns about vet trials.

If ZOS wants sorc to be new mana tank default char, so let's give them a chance, even if this chance is almost deadborn )

Remove the cast time for the shield and increase the mana cost, or whatever... 1 second is way to much for how fast the combat is.
How about adding a 1 second cast duration for blocking too?