PTS Update 20 - Feedback Thread for Sorcerer

fastolfv_ESO

why didnt they just make shields not stack? this should have been implemented a few years ago and everything would be fine atm. It cant be this difficult to balance, if your opponent only spams shields he isnt killing you and can be locked down to stop him so why change the cast time? its like going in a huge circle around the problem and screwing everything else up along the way to fix a simple problem

Tonturri

fastolfv_ESO wrote: »

why didnt they just make shields not stack? this should have been implemented a few years ago and everything would be fine atm. It cant be this difficult to balance, if your opponent only spams shields he isnt killing you and can be locked down to stop him so why change the cast time? its like going in a huge circle around the problem and screwing everything else up along the way to fix a simple problem

Pretty much all defenses can be layered on top of each other. Singling out shields (which, coincidentally, are the only defense that stack only with themselves and nearly negate any other defenses you may have at the time, and are weaker because of it) to be unstackable when people can still vigor/roll/rally/lotus/soothing spores/armor res/blocking/etc is just ridiculous. If a sorc has two shields up there really isn't much else under those shields - and there's NOTHING supporting those shields like a nightblade might have healing ward up, several hots ticking and cloak.

It's bamboozling as to how sorcs stacking two shields is, compared to all the other layered defenses out there, somehow totally unacceptable.

Benemime

They forgot that shields cost magicka and we don't have stamina to break free from stun and roll dodge like other classes.

But the most important question is: Did they fix Scamp's special attack (pulse) visual effects to match the nature of the damage? Scamp pulse attack is shock damage, not magic damage, it should have the proper visual effect. The way it is it looks like a pulse of dark magic.

Benemime

themaddaedra wrote: »

Please take the %8 magicka buff from a skill we'll never use, and make it a class skill line passive. Nightblades get their %8 max magicka by slotting Funnel Health, so sorcs should have it as a passive for slotting an actually useful class skill (i'd put my bet on Crystal Frags, but could also be Mage's Wrath or Curse, all three are from different trees).

Whattt???? No!

I agree that bound aegis active effect is REALLY useless for magsorc, but giving 8℅ max magicka to crystal frags is a disgrace. Not everyone relies on crystal frags builds. After the nerf to our defenses, we should have bound aegis effect repurposed, give us minor protection or something instead of a block skill

Galarthor

@ManDraKE

ManDraKE wrote: »

@Galarthor is getting exhausting because most of you arguments are fundamentally flawed.

ManDraKE wrote: »

Galarthor wrote: »

First off, shields are essentially heals b/c just like heals they extend your total amount of HP / HP pool. Shield are heals paid upfront! Other mitigation mechanisms in the game do not extend your HP pool, but reduce the damage taken directly (i.e. dodge, block, cloak).

Shields are not like heals, currently shields provide damage mitigation by granting resistences to crits and penetration, thats why small shields like Igneous Shield are useful even when their size is laughable, they prevent crits and negate all enemy penetration. Healing doesn't mitigate damage, you can have all the healing the world and get bursted in a single combo, good look doing that agaisnt shields.

Yeah ... my arguments are fundamentally flawed and yours are sound. Yet here you are talking about shields giving resistences against penetration when shields actually have 0 resistences and accordingly take the full damage without any mitigation. As for the offering protection against crits ... well I answered that in my original post and claiming that is not the case or unbalanced is just putting a slant on the story.

While healing does not directly increase your current health pool like shields do, it also comes at far lower cost. The fact that the damage it counters is mitigates means you need less healing than shields. Also the opprotunity cost are far lower as you only have to cast a heal when you really need it b/c your HP already dropped, unlike shields which you have to use proactively and might very well overuse and as such waste resources, time, and potential damage done. But I already explained that to you ...

ManDraKE wrote: »

Galarthor wrote: »

Shields are not affected by debuffs because they don't benefit from buffs either. The Buff-Debuff system is designed in such a way that for every buff there is a debuff countering it. It's just a creative choice of the designers to have one kind of "heal" affected by the buff system but not the other one - but at the bottom line it balances out.

Shields size and scaling from stats is designed to not need buffs. You can't counter the extra shield of a guy stacking magika, but you can counter the extra heals of a guy stacking max stam. Also saying that shields are not affected by buffs is not entire true, becuase things like major/minor protection affect shields, fighting a magsorc with pirate skeleton is a waste of time.

You are again trying to bend the story in your own favor by distorting facts and reversing claims. Yes, in the current system, shields are balanced around not needing a buff, but the current system also does not include a specific debuff for shields. As soon as you introduce such a debuff (which you were basically asking for / or complaining about) you'd also have to introduce its corresponding counter to ensure balance. Don't try to sell it like I am asking for shields having a specific buff in the buff system when it was you complaining about shields not having a debuff and I was only pointing out the flaw in your arguementation.

With your Minor/Major Protection agruement you are reaching again. Protection is nothing specific but rather a gloabal buff that affects all kinds of damage. And it also stacks with the Mending buffs for heals. So your arguement is pretty much mute and you are just trying to discredit my reasoning with some shady claims and incomplete listing of facts.

ManDraKE wrote: »

Galarthor wrote: »

Shields cannot be critted b/c they themselves don't crit. Unlike heals, which can crit b/c your HP bar can be critted. Again, there is nothing imbalanced here and it's just a creative choice of the designers. It would only have been problematic if one could crit but not be critted or vice versa.

Only damage can crit in this game, and heals are procesed as positive damage by the engine, that's why heals can crit. Shields not being able to crit are not a reason for shield to provide inmunity to crits, rendering useless a key mechanic of the combat like critical hits.
This change is not just about balance, is about fixing bad game design that goes agaisnt the core mechanics of the combat in ESO.

How the game translates the design on a technical level is a different story and not really relevant for the balancing. From a conceptional point of view healing and shields are almost identical tools which both enlarge the HP pool available to the player. One is being paid upfront the other one after, but at the end of the day the effects they have are identical. Having shields critable while not critting themselves is just unbalanced since the game mechanic and its counter would not cancel each other out and as such are not balance -> they are unbalanced!

Claiming this would be balanced is just wishful thinking and I encourage you to setup an equation to prove me wrong. Keep in mind though, obviously crit damage to shields was not already factored into the size of the shields b/c otherwise ZOS would have changed the shield size accordingly during one of the countless sorc nerfs. Also, if crit damage was already factored into the shield size then ZOS should not have added crit resistence to shields in the current PTS patch since shields were already designed to counter crit damage. Well ... good luck with that equation!

ManDraKE wrote: »

Galarthor wrote: »

Shields are not affected by resistances, meaning they actually take the full force of the attacks. In return their tooltip is (or should be) adjusted upwards accordingly. Again, there is nothing imbalanced here and it's just a creative choice of the designers. And there is nothing imbalanced about it. It's simple math.

As i said before, shields should be affected by resistences and penetration in order to avoid parts of the game that ignore key combat mechanics. Shield size and scaling with resistences should be adjusted to avoid nuking light armor builds and/or overbuffing heavy armor

What are you complaining about here? Shields already had 0 resistences, so there is nothing to be gained from having them being affected by penetration. If you fight an unshielded character that has 0 resistences your penetration will not increase the damage dealt to it either.

Having shields being affected by resistences and in turn also by penetration can only end badly.
1) Penetration of most builds is already greater than resistences of light armor builds, which means the shields and HP basically have 0 resistences and 0 mitigation .... just like now. So nothing will be gained here.
2) Heavy armor builds on the other hand often have resistences greater than enemy penetration which means they will have strong shields and as such benefit from the change your proposed. Great idea. Let's have the tanks that are already very tanky also have shields that are stronger than the current shields on light armor builds that you are constantly complaining about ... I mean what could go wrong. It's going to be fun to fight heavy armor stam tank DKs with 20k shields that only take fraction of the damage the shields originally took on light armor builds .... GG

The only way you could prevent that and achieve your goal of "scaling with resistences should be adjusted to avoid nuking light armor builds and/or overbuffing heavy armor" is by having shields inversly scale with resistences - i.e. the lower your resistences the stronger your shields. Yeaht ... that's totally going to be intuitive and achieve your self-proclaimed goal of making the game less complicated.

ManDraKE wrote: »

Galarthor wrote: »

Casting a shield is not necessarily more effective and efficient than casting a heal. B/c you have to use shield proactively you run the risk of "overpaying". That is applying a shield that is not needed and thus wasting time and resources and opportunities to deal damage. That is a kind of risk you don't face when using heals as they are utilized reactively when the HP pool already got drained to a certain degree..

Shields are precasted constantly to provide mitigation, and they can also be used reactively (cc break and re-apply). IF you draw a comparision to stamina heals for example, burst heals are 100% reactively and HoTs are precasted (as magika builds have to keep shields up, stamina builds have to keep vigor up), shields are both.

No they are not. Shields are always used proactively in anticipation of incoming damage, while burst heals are used reactively once you have taken damage. Furthermore, shields re-applied suffer from the same uncertainty as shields originally cast. You don't know how much damage will come in. And b/c you want to stay alive you tend to overcast your shields. Heals on the other hand have an upper limit and as such are not really overcast (yes there might be some overheal, but the excess is by far not as large as for shields).

HoTs are not really part of the discussion here b/c in this game they are complements. You will not survive on HoTs alone. Besides even HoT heals can be used reactively. - e.g.: Take damage, dodge, HoT-dodge, ....

ManDraKE wrote: »

Galarthor wrote: »

The way to "fix" shields is to:
1) make them scale with light armor b/c heavy armor + large shields is just cancerous.
2) Allowing only 1 shield to be active at any given time (excluding healing ward as that is a heal and would not work otherwise)
3) In return buff the strength of the different shields, b/c 1 shield is not enough.
Optimally:
4) introduce some mechanism to reduce damage taken from multiple targets b/c it is based on absolute values rather than percentage values such as dodge, block, resistances, and cloak.

1) already suggested how to balance that. A proper scaling for resistences, some sort of dimish return curve that will allow shields to be effective with both light and heavy armor
2-3) bad game design. There is no reason to make abilities useless on your bar withouth a clear explanation, specially for the new player. In game where you can only have 10 skills, blocking 1 or 2 skills to prevent shield stacking is an awful idea.
Healing ward is the most broken shield of all, you can recover from 1% hp while getting spammed with excutes. Is the main reason why dueling shield builds is so dumb
4) You can dodge, block and cloak on top of using shields, and you can even block cast shields (and block with the magika pool using an ice staff, many dk's are *** that for example). In the past, the way of killing a sorc was to drain his stamina, now that is imposible unless the sorc is really bad or it has a bad build. With things like shackle, tristat enchats, etc you can easily have 15k+ plus stam pool with enought recovery to dodge, block, cc break for ages.

Also shields mitigation is not flat/absolute, the more damage the attackr has, more mitigation they provide because the biggest damage multiplier in the game is the crit multiplier.

1) see above
2) - 3) You mean like being unable to CC stun immune targets? Or to block while using certain abilities. Or to run while using any ability? Alternatively, you could just have shields replace each other when they are cast on top an already applied shield ... no grey skills and thanks to the difference in animations and change in shield strength even a small child should figure out what's going on. It would be pretty similar to healing when you are already at max HP.

Funny how you think healing ward, which takes 6 sec to potentially heal you and has its healing done reduce by damage taken, is OP. But Templar and DK heals (and even Wardens) healing themselves up in far less time and with a higher degree of certainty are ok. And apparently it's also ok to dodge roll for ages until your HoTs have healed you up. Oh and going into stealth and re-emerging later with full HP is apparently also not a problem ...

As I said, it is predominantly a psychological issue. You are hitting the guy under the Healing Ward but his/her HP bar is not moving. When you hit the Templar, DK, Warden at least their HP bar is moving even though it's already far from the execute range. And NBs you are not hitting, so you don't expect any HP downwards movements and as such are ok with that as well.

maxlacab16_ESO

Like several of you have stated above, ZOS has brought the Sorc class to an all-time low over the years, and now is serving the mercy-death-blow it really deserves.

I have canceled my sub in response to the proposed shield changes, the final nerf to a class that has become total trash.
The money is the only thing that gets ZOS's attention, so, if you want to have an impact, you know what to do.

And to the devs: Just scrap the sorc class already and create another class. Just delete the whole thing and start from scratch. No, really! You would be doing all of us a BIG favor!

I will gladly re-sub after that is accomplished. In a galaxy far, far away...

D0PAMINE

So @ZOS_RobGarrett are you reading all these posts?

Kerioko

Testing endgame sorc healer in trials and DLC dungeons on PTS:

Gear(on live): 5 Twilight Remedy (front bar destro)/5 SPC/2 Earthgore/Master Resto

Skills(on live):

Shock Staff: Crushing Shock, Blockade, Liquid Lighting, Elemental Drain, Twilight, Overload
Resto Staff: Spring, Combat Prayer, Empowered Ward, Mutegen (or Healing Ward), Twilight, Storm Atro (or warhorn)
Overload: Dark Conversion, Energy Orbs, Boundless Storm, Crit Surge, Twilight

Notes:

Dark Conversion - the only purpose of this skill on a healer in PVE is to supply the group with the minor prophecy buff. There are no other skill useful in this tree for a sorc healer to use to bring this buff to a group, especially with the nerf to the skill and the loss of the overload bar. Negate is an option, but their are better group ults for PVE, like warhorn, atro, destro ult, and barrier.

Empowered Ward: I can live with the crits and resistance changes, but the cast time and the duration extension on this skill is absurd. Especially for healers. Empowered is used as an emergency button to keep the twilight alive and is also part of the standard rotation to give the group minor intellect. Since the minor intellect buff is staying at 10 seconds, the 14 second duration is pointless and the 1 second cast time makes the sorc chose between trying to keep the pet alive or trying to keep enough hots on the group to have time to revive a dead pet.

Overload: Loss of the 3rd bar is going to hurt a lot. With the limited bar space, I am forced to either drop ward and conversion and limit my group utility or drop twilight and limit my ability to burst heal.

Healing Set-up for PTS:

Gear: 5 SPC/5 Worm/2 Earthgore

Shock Bar: Crushing Shock, Liquid Lighting, Blockade, Energy Orbs, Elemental Drain, Warhorn
Resto Bar: Springs, Combat Prayer, Ward Ally, Boundless Storm(or mutegen), Dark Conversion, Barrier

Notes:

- I found it best to just drop empowered ward and twilight from my bars as cast times screw up rotation and it is just to much RNG to keep your main burst heal alive. We could at least have health bars for pets on the UI!
- Loss of an overload bar means I have to pick and chose what I can bring to a group. With the buff to minor prophecy, dark conversion, even with the nerf, is a better skill to slot than empowered ward.
- Ward Ally (since healing ward is nerfed) becomes my emergency button and paired with springs/combat prayer for burst healing. I may have to look into replacing my master resto with the new arena resto to buff healing while warding.
- Barrier becomes my primary ultimate due to the nerf of annulment and warhorn.


Suggestions:

Dark Conversion(dark deal):
- Dark Conversion - instant cast that costs stamina and gives health and magicka over 20 sec
- Dark Deal - instant cast that cost magicka and gives health and stamina over 20 sec
- Hitting the skill again within the 20 seconds refreshes the timer and gives a burst heal similar to rally

Ward:
- Hardened Ward: Keep cast time, but increase shield time to 20 sec and make the shield 30% stronger then empowered.
- Empowered Ward: Instant cast 10 sec shield to keep it the same as the buff time it provides. Reduce shield by 10% and increase cost by 20%. Make it so ward and harness can't stack!

Overload:
- make damage 75% of live instead of 50%
- change pets to instant cast and do away with needing them slotted on both bars
- swap capacitor and exploitation passives

With these changes:
-Sorcs still get the option of an oh-*** shield and healers still have a viable way of keeping pets alive and bringing group buffs while also having an option for a larger shield that can be precast as ZOS intends.
- Dark Deal functions more like other classes recovery skills, and also provides a burst heal that the class is missing outside of running pets
- changes to pets and passives swaps allows healers to have enough bar space to still bring both group buffs why providing the loadouts needed to be successful trial/DLC-HM healers.

ForsakenSin

I would just like to point out

the order day playing on my magica sorc with 56k magica 18k health ive done vet AA and died few times ..

i can see i need to put on shield i press the button .. nothing... press it again .. nothing press it again .. nothing dead... again same thing again press the button 2 times for shield to come up due to the lag... imagine when we get delays no chance in hell i would be able to survive anything

If changes go live im changing to stam sorc or just unsub and give it a rest for a while... its a shame

Quasaur

I wonder about the direction magicka sorcerers are expected to play.

If they are expected to plan a shield, are they meant to hide behind objects and fire off spells like a sniper? If so, why nerf Overload and not buff anything that would allow them to play an effective sniper like stronger frags, better getaway skills, etc.? Are you going to clutter up the environment to support this style of play? (Please don't add more stones to trip over, ty.) There is already a class that is an effective sniper, how will sorcerer compete?

If they are expected to don heavy armour and throw a zoo at enemies, some changes need to be made to allow the pets to survive and the sorcerer to do some kind of damage without running out of resources. ZOS, you don't expect magsorcs to wear light armour with a healing skill that tends to off itself before it's needed, do you?

Are there any plans to give sorcerer more group support in the form of something good for all group set-ups? Prophecy really only helps magicka users and it comes from the use of dark magic abilities, which is an entire skill line from which many (pet)sorcerers slot nothing. As it stands, they are and will stay at the bottom of the barrel for tanks and healers and barely scrape by as DPS.

I don't want to completely abandon this class if improvements can be made, it has potential. If the changes stay the way they are on the PTS, whether or not shields can be interrupted, please let me change my sorcerer that has all my achievements/mount training/psijic skills/quests to any other class. It doesn't matter which, as long as it's not a sorcerer.

RMerlin

D0PAMINE wrote: »

So @ZOS_RobGarrett are you reading all these posts?

I'm sure he is. The question however is, will he and the rest of the dev team listen to the countless arguments we have made against the cast time, or simply ignore our feedback and proceed on with their already-decided changes.

TheInfernalRage

RMerlin wrote: »

D0PAMINE wrote: »

So @ZOS_RobGarrett are you reading all these posts?

I'm sure he is. The question however is, will he and the rest of the dev team listen to the countless arguments we have made against the cast time, or simply ignore our feedback and proceed on with their already-decided changes.

With all these comments hitting them, the 1-sec delay in their reaction stacks so hard that only a few comments are registered in the forum. Kind of like when you are in a vet trial and you want to react to the myriad damage skills going after you, but by the time you hit shield you can no longer react because you're dead. You are revived and the cycle repeats and hope you'll get lucky and shield saves you.

TheInfernalRage

ezio45 wrote: »

ok lets talk about magsorc "adapting"

devs, please present us with what you think is a viable pvp nonpet magsorc build for murkimire

Some tips,
if its light armor, its not viable anymore
if its heavy, our sustain is trash in light, its not viable

@ZOS_RobGarrett , please tell us how to adapt? I am really interested to know how.

FrancisCrawford

TheInfernalRage wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

ok lets talk about magsorc "adapting"

devs, please present us with what you think is a viable pvp nonpet magsorc build for murkimire

Some tips,
if its light armor, its not viable anymore
if its heavy, our sustain is trash in light, its not viable

@ZOS_RobGarrett , please tell us how to adapt? I am really interested to know how.

His stated goal was to give sorcerers "interesting decisions". And in one sense he's achieved that -- deciding which of the four other classes to play instead is not an easy choice.

Well, for mainstream healing it is easy -- just stick with templar. But for solo/duo play I'm really perplexed. Magblades' skills for healing themselves and for healing others are now very separate, and also self-contradictory -- e.g., Refreshing Path is a heal only if you stay in one place, but it's secondary benefit only applies if you move. Templar has been strengthened, but does that mean I should run two templars with some different morph choices?. Warden has had a nerf to a signature skill for solo/duo play. And I have little experience with DK.

maboleth

TheInfernalRage wrote: »

@ZOS_RobGarrett , please tell us how to adapt? I am really interested to know how.

That's easy.

Start learning all your traits on all your gear TODAY. In a few months time you'll have a nice sorc crafter for almost any environment, situation or cause.

It's a nice noble job and your name will be forever stitched in the armour of other hard warriors. One day they will look at it and say "Oh this piece of gear was crafted by xyz, what a nice wo(man)".

Elwendryll

I can understand the shield changes, they're a buff to tanks and a nerf to DD's, which is fine to me as a stamsorc. The rune cage change seems fine, I'd need to try it in pvp.

Overload, well, I've picked sorcerer when I started the game back in 2015 specifically for this third bar. Currently, I only use it in battlegrounds, because it's magicka based, so it's only viable without CP (from a damage perspective).

With these changes, the ult is more responsive, less chances to get stuck on a bar, less delay, but less damages. I can still see the magicka regen morph be very useful, because now, you can keep doing your rotation and regen magicka.

But there is a major issue in my opinion, the only stamina friendly ult is the healing morph of negate now. I can no longer find a reason to slot overload. Maybe if the first morph (+range) was changed to physical damages, it would be worth slotting it.

I just wish the stamina sorcerers would suffer less from magicka nerfs.

XIIICaesar

I think the changes for sorcs are good. We'll start to see more variety in sorc playstyles instead of the same 2 or 3 skills over and over and over in both PvE & PvP. I have stamina builds & MagSorc. It'll make playing as a sorc much more difficult in a challenging way which I think is very good from a competitive standpoint. We'll no longer be able to rely on the shield so much & have to rethink our armor composition as well as the sets we use and their traits to compensate for the shield not being up so much of the time.

gtnorrell

Seeing as the shield was the only true source of defense that a sorc had to offer this has basically destroyed the class. They have very few class heals and taking away their only means of defending themselves is just petty. My wife and I have played Sorc since we started playing this game almost 2 years ago and will probably not be for much longer. What I do not understand is why you did not simply eliminate the shields altogether. You know for a fact that it is useless in any form of combat the way it is. No dps can afford to stop and spend a full second of their time casting a damage shield, it is pointless.

And beyond just sorcs, you decided to add a cast time to the Annulment as well. That means this affects all Light Armor builds. It is not like they can use the Sun Shield or the Bone Shield, the former being a joke and the latter scaling from max health. This is even worse than destroying damage shield viability for dps. This is going to basically render everyone in the group helpless in PvE as the dps begin dropping when the healer has to stop and channel for a full second coinciding with the time they need Breath of Life. I guess we should all just shelve all of our other builds and go with ZOS' flavor of the month... The Warden. The other classes were just embellishment anyways, a bit of illusion that we actually had a choice to have a viable class to play that we don't need to first purchase with crowns....

XIIICaesar

But the shields are still there. And they're plenty of other defensive options for sorcs other than shields. There's invisibility potions. Roll Dodge. You can lessen the cost with CPs. You can increase a sorcs low stamina pool with tristat glyphs. There's I'm sure many other options too. Use a piece of mewdium armor for the passives & heavy armor for the passives. CPs can also increase your resistance too. Use a protective trait on jewelry. The only issue is wether or not a player wants to be more creative with there build & look into those other options or just fold and give up there sorc just because a few abilities aren't as care-free & easy as they previously were.

Cously

I've had my fun watching sorcs squirm. They got to taste what dks went through all these years. Cheesy class got cheesed!

Seriously though the cast time on shield looks very clunky, especially that your game most of the time can be unresponsive

Let's face it: the problem why this nerf being applied is PVP. Sorcs are cheesy for having best defense / attack with same resource, cheesy streak, cheesy execute, a lazy and lame class. Now what made them annoying was the shield stacking. That can easily be solved by not allowing shields to stack, much like when you applied the new system of Major and Minor buffs. That way people who did PVE, both healers and cheesy vma sorcs wouldn't be hit so hard with the nerf, if at all.

Another fair solution in my opinion could be make it work like streak, increase costs if ability is used again within short time. That would add more tactical thinking to sorc play in pvp (HAHAHAHAHAHAHA) so they would have to actually think before cheese around. Bonus: you could also *** off more than half of your player base by making Cloak costs increase through the roof as well! That would be lovely. Pesky NBs. Throw a bone and increase duration though.

Thus preventing shield stacking would be the less impactful change and deal with the real problem why everyone complain about sorcs in pvp. Cast time, can't do. It also affect healers. We can live in a world without cheesy sorcs but we need the healers comfy to heal us, I suppose you got it covered by not touching healing ward and it seems like you are relentless about removing the cast time as posted in other thread...hmm that got me worried, to be honest I thought the cast time would be removed on PTS4 but seems you guys serious about it.

Gnozo

XIIICaesar wrote: »

But the shields are still there. And they're plenty of other defensive options for sorcs other than shields. There's invisibility potions. Roll Dodge. You can lessen the cost with CPs. You can increase a sorcs low stamina pool with tristat glyphs. There's I'm sure many other options too. Use a piece of mewdium armor for the passives & heavy armor for the passives. CPs can also increase your resistance too. Use a protective trait on jewelry. The only issue is wether or not a player wants to be more creative with there build & look into those other options or just fold and give up there sorc just because a few abilities aren't as care-free & easy as they previously were.

Ofc we can also stack into heavy armor with resistences but we dont have any kind of viable heal. No burst heal (except the pet wich needs to be double slottet).

I mean i am up for more build diversity and would like to use for example sword and board on a magsorc. But we are forced into destro cause we dont have a class spammable and we are also forced into using resto cause we dont have a good class heal besides the pet wich, as i already said, needs to be double slottet and is also one shot if you cant protect it with...................... a shield .

keeno9881

shot we should demand every def skill get a 1 sec cast time Shuffle

MyrddinEmrys

I have been a MagSorc (And only a MagSorc) from the day this game was released. We have had some rough times but this is too far. Stop screwing us over. We need buffs, not nerfs. ZOS deserves all the "toxic" comments they are getting for this. If you make conjured ward a non-instant cast, you destroy the class. Period.

Fudly_budly

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keeno9881

If they wont listen to the class rep there is no point on having reps
if the cast time goes thru people will have to learn how to play sorc with the one sec cast time or not play sorc anymore
i would really like to know the dummy in the dev group who pushed this 1 sec cast time is he the same dude that designed the sload set and zaan set?

Minalan

@ZOS_RobGarrett

Remember this genius work of yours when the company releases it's flagging subscription numbers internally. Or when they posts up results for next quarter, and everyone is trying to figure out why crown sales are so much lower.

When you're collecting your things from your desk and putting them in a box, I want you to remember this moment.

There's no convincing stupid that it's being stupid, especially when compounded with ignorant and stubborn. I'm through trying to reason or bargain with you guys. I honestly hope this works out for you in the end, but it's not looking good.

Sange13

It's really simple. If it goes through, you shelf your Sorcs until it gets reverted. When nobody wants to play the class, it'll be obvious that it was a mistake.

Mishkaiel

Since cast times are starting to be added...expect these soon

Spiritrush

Do any of the Devs actually play a Sorc in Cyrodiil, BGs, Dueling?
I know several long-time players that have already unsubbed as a result of this.

Also, I would ignore any comments that bash the Sorc class, or any other class for that matter. ESO originated a solid framework of creating classes that suit very different play-styles - mastering a Sorc play-style, as an example, is very different than mastering a DK play-style. Not everyone appreciates the different play-styles, and some feel the need to feel better about themselves by debasing others. Comments shrouded in such toxic worldviews typically offer little of value. That said, ESO does seem to be moving away from the uniqueness of each play-style to a more vanilla system, which will cause more and more long-time advocates of the game to leave.

Donnasnowheart_ESO

The overload nerf is just downright all around crushing of the ult. Most builds that used it stam sorc, sorc healer,sorc tank and even some sorc mag dps builds used the thing for its 3rd bar! Now on the pts we have this super wet noodle ability for light attacks that still has the same slow animation even though it can be 'woven" and barely hits harder then a regular staff LA all without the third bar.

So in one fell swoop they killed the entire ulti 3rd bar gone so it can't be used for utility, effectively nerfing a great deal of builds by a crap ton and removed something solely special to the sorc class. Along with giving it craptastic damage on LA killing any build that used it for ganking or as burst damage. Not to mention this will almost never be used in pve/pvp for damage with how horribly weak the LA is. The best part is the patch notes gave no buff what so ever to try and relieve the loss of the 3rd bar. Some of the most obvious ones being able to 1 bar pets and bound armor, heck stam sorcs didn't receive a single helpful patch note class ability wise its nothing but disgusting.