Checkmath wrote: »

@Jabbs_Giggity

Your previous post was not unnoticed. But i cant comment every single post in this thread. But dont worry, I read what is written in here.

Now about your suggestions:
With the recent change to rune focus, i dont see that they will move the resistance buff to sun shield, not in the next year.
Also sun shield might get addressed in the next patch, since it falls under the point of damage shields, which is a topic looked at from the devs atm.
Additionally they stated, that they will look at the spear wall passive, so that it might work better with the templar toolkit next patch.
the rest are some funny ideas, so I will write them down again.

Thanks @Checkmath

The Sun Shield is mostly wishful thinking. But in all reality it would be an awesome idea to implement. I am nostalgic for a great visual effect on top of functionality. The Sun Shield glow gives the Templars more of a "Templar" feeling in combat. However, I have never put Sun Shield on either of my bars as a DPS Magplar since Launch, unless I was being cheeky...Most of the skills were addressed in your notes which is why I did not comment on most skills.

At this point, signing in to the server to play a Templar is exhausting and flat out unrewarding and I often go on 2-3 month hiatus because the game balance is just not bringing anything to the table, on top of the poor server reliability in Cyrodiil.

Checkmath wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

@Jabbs_Giggity

Your previous post was not unnoticed. But i cant comment every single post in this thread. But dont worry, I read what is written in here.

Now about your suggestions:
With the recent change to rune focus, i dont see that they will move the resistance buff to sun shield, not in the next year.
Also sun shield might get addressed in the next patch, since it falls under the point of damage shields, which is a topic looked at from the devs atm.
Additionally they stated, that they will look at the spear wall passive, so that it might work better with the templar toolkit next patch.
the rest are some funny ideas, so I will write them down again.

Thanks @Checkmath

The Sun Shield is mostly wishful thinking. But in all reality it would be an awesome idea to implement. I am nostalgic for a great visual effect on top of functionality. The Sun Shield glow gives the Templars more of a "Templar" feeling in combat. However, I have never put Sun Shield on either of my bars as a DPS Magplar since Launch, unless I was being cheeky...Most of the skills were addressed in your notes which is why I did not comment on most skills.

At this point, signing in to the server to play a Templar is exhausting and flat out unrewarding and I often go on 2-3 month hiatus because the game balance is just not bringing anything to the table, on top of the poor server reliability in Cyrodiil.

thats why you have to play as if class balance is given, then its probably more fun than always thinking, that my class is less effective here and there or superior to another one.

By Game Balance I am referring to the lacking in a fluid rotation. I can 1vX just fine but find that I am spending 80% of combat on my back bar repeatedly casting Rune Focus and Cleanse because we have no decent CC, no decent Snare, NO mobility...meanwhile being pummeled by hard CC/root/immobilize/snare, repeat as if no CC Immunity applies...I rely heavily on escapist poisons because well, we have no other means...

1 - I cannot attack weave with jabs, maybe allow jabs to apply chants and poisons

2- something that would give me major expedition, maybe focused charge

If burning light was per target and balanced warrior was also 6% spell damage, Would that be enough of a boost to help magplar DDs be viable for competitive groups?

Did you guys discuss the pain of using Dark Flare? I really love the skill and like that has great counterplay options, but it's very near impossible to land this skill - I swear it has a 95% miss/block rate.

1. We need the dodge window fixed to match Snipe - the target has an insane 3-5 second total window to dodge this skill. Absolutely insane.

2. We need a slight reduction in that ridiculous travel arc. It shouldn't be reduced too much or it won't combo well with other skills, but especially at point blank the arc looks ridiculous and feels bad. Is it possible to give it a variable arc based on distance? So like if the target is 5 meters away it has a very slight arc but if the target is 41 meters away it has a huge arc?

The issue with redesigning templar like that is you run the risk of just ending up with 5 nightblade reskins instead of unique classes.

I think nightblades being op right now has more to do with game design not the classes design.

The game needs to be better balances between playstyles of unique clases.

For templar that means reliable low cost cc that completely lacks right now. (For pvp especially but tanks want it as well). Templar needs to be able to hold someone down to use a channled ability. For pve the focus on light attacks is detrimental to templars and needs to be rethought.

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

Did you guys discuss the pain of using Dark Flare? I really love the skill and like that has great counterplay options, but it's very near impossible to land this skill - I swear it has a 95% miss/block rate.

1. We need the dodge window fixed to match Snipe - the target has an insane 3-5 second total window to dodge this skill. Absolutely insane.

2. We need a slight reduction in that ridiculous travel arc. It shouldn't be reduced too much or it won't combo well with other skills, but especially at point blank the arc looks ridiculous and feels bad. Is it possible to give it a variable arc based on distance? So like if the target is 5 meters away it has a very slight arc but if the target is 41 meters away it has a huge arc?

The problem with this is that any experienced player is going to see the channel animation and know it is coming. By the time it launches it doesn't matter what the arc is. If you animate it, they will dodge it! Only way to prevent them from dodging DF is to successfully land a javelin while they do not have CC Immunity...

1. Remove channels from Templar Toolkit!
2. Get rid of the ******* House design!

ZOS will do neither of these, which is why they consistently fail their customers. They change core game mechanics to their will, but fail to update class mechanics to follow suite.
"Be more mobile, but Templars remain stationary with no defense..."
"Use the now stronger light attack weaving in your rotation, but Templars don't because you can't - your stuck in a channel..."

Have to agree the templar has nothing going for it, no mobility, no good combos as damn near everything is a channel. Jabs misses a lot because it, while everyone else gets instant casts on more damaging abilities with equal or lower costs so your sustain takes a hit because you're casting your weaker equal costing channeled abilities more, which brings me to my next point...most Templars use weapon abilities more than class abilities at least as a stamplar I know that for a fact not too experienced on magplar.

I find that magplars use very few actual templar skills, and really only (arguably) a couple of viable offensive skills (purifying light, relective light). Other slotted skills are only there because they HAVE to be to get passives. Hopefully radiant oppression will be worth using again. (Xbox)

compare to other class is this weakest off them all

1 only one cc available is javlin compare othher classes very weak and cant be block or doge

dargonknight have 3 cc or more talons foslize stone fitst scors got more then 3 ass whell pet that stun rung cage encase nightblade have 3 or more ass whell

got grippling graps fear and ulti cc

the templar only got one cc that it

2 they have no cc for 2 players or more ad once

dragonknights got talons
scors got encase
nighblade got faer

we used to have on shard but got removed because to many healers use it in supporting their group

3 we are suppose to be the healing class but with the remove off major mending a scocr, nightblade can out heal us very easy because heals skills off max stats wich they can get up to towards 50k+ plus you can barely reach 40k+ on a temp

dragonkight heals better because they still got major mending.

4 over all the only thing you can do on in pvp is a heavy amour healers spams bread of live over and over again because it,s not that powerfull

5 you can only play it as healer right now because as dps you get counter so eazy can,t really use shields because you can,t get high max stats to get good shields overall you can,t plays as a dps

unless your really good ad the game

I’d love a reliable source of Minor Maim for my Templar tank, that doesn’t require an armour set.. I could envision this as a re-worked version of Radiant Ward that applies the debuff on cast for 4-6 seconds to those within 6m.

Healing Rituals visual really appeals to me, and I agree with the former statements requesting it to be altered into an applied HoT. It’d be nice to see the Ritual of Retribution morph offer Major Sorcery and Major Brutality to all those hit with cast, similar to the DKs Molten Weapons. Reduce the cost, equate the HoT to Mutagen and apply the buff for the duration.

Ariades_swe wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Warganic wrote: »

Have to agree the templar has nothing going for it, no mobility, no good combos as damn near everything is a channel. Jabs misses a lot because it, while everyone else gets instant casts on more damaging abilities with equal or lower costs so your sustain takes a hit because you're casting your weaker equal costing channeled abilities more, which brings me to my next point...most Templars use weapon abilities more than class abilities at least as a stamplar I know that for a fact not too experienced on magplar.

Stamplars are more/less the same bar setup, sometimes you get an odd-ball that varies. I've played extensively with Stamplar from IC-Clockwork City (Switched back to Magplar because Stamplar is just too glitchy) and have found that the only offensive Templar skills used are PotL and Binding Javelin (which is often not even slotted due to previous comments above). So yes, to concur with your statement

Warganic wrote: »

most Templars use weapon abilities more than class abilities

because there is nothing for a Templar to use. DW lacks execute and gap closer while 2H lacks DoT's and is clunky for a Stamplar play style but back bar 2H for Rally since heals suck on a Stamplar. The only thing that really changes between builds for Stamplar is gear setup. Most common is Ravager/BP/Troll King but I have seen a lot more variances in build gear lately.

As for Magplars, pretty standard front bar, again. Most Magplars have dropped Sweeps, but still seem more reliable than Jabs. Vamp Bane and Purifying Light are usually a no brainer and most use Magelight for the added Magic/Crit. I have recently switched to Destro/S&B on mine running front bar Sweeps, Total Dark, Magelight, Dark Flare, Sun Fire, U: DB and back bar is always the same...Stam or Mag...Rune Focus, Cleanse, BoL, Entropy, Elusive Mist (been running Time Freeze instead), U: Devour Swarm

On both pc and ps4 I see most templars still using *** sweeps than a weaponskill in pvp for some reason so not sure what you mean when you say most templars dropped sweeps.
They seem to love that skill for despite all it's faults lol
Are you on xbox?

What makes your anecdotal evidence better? You can type all day until you get carpel tunnel, but what you insist isn't automatically more valid than someone's claims without verifiable evidence.

Speaking for myself, this is why I don't like sweeps:



I've been playing magplar long enough that those numbers are half of what I have seen in the past. Nevermind the skill is a nightmare to hit opponents who know what they are doing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6efLrTjREc

Out of 16 Puncturing Sweeps attacks, I hit 3 – three! – times. My opponent did not even have to dodge roll! No hits = no incoming healing = no pressure on opponent = you’re dead.

This was back before the introduction of Swift jewelry. Any stam build with Momentum and Swift jewelry (i.e. many of the better ones) means you're probably not going to hit them unless they purposefully chose not to get out of the way (which probably means they are about to burst you down).

turlisley wrote: »

Darkmage1337 wrote: »

I'm happy to hear about the buff to Radiant Destruction (Jesus Beam) and the reversal of the Rune Focus sustain nerf. But here are some other under-performing abilities/passives that should be re-examined.

Abilities:

Rite of Passage: Increase the healing speed/animation of Rite of Passage/Practiced Incantation/Remembrance (Templar healing ultimate). A Templar should not be able to die so easily and so quickly while channeling this ultimate ability. The healing animation/speed of this ability is far too slow in comparison to all other healing abilities. Please take a look at this.

Backlash: Allow Backlash/Power of the Light/Purifying Light to be casted/used from stealth without agro'ing the enemy (similar to NB's marked target ability).

Dark Flare: Remove the casting time of Dark Flare and/or greatly increase Dark Flare damage due to its casting time; (like Snipe -- Snipe does way more damage for the same casting time duration in comparison to Dark Flare).

Blazing Shield: ZOS slightly/successfully returned Jesus Beam to its former glory. Bravo. The same cannot be said to Templar tank's Blazing Shield, which already has several counters, including: Sloads, Shield Breaker, Knight Slayer, and more. Blazing Shield could use a buff to its strength and/or duration to compliment/counter the strength of Sorcerer's Hardened Ward because that is based off of Magicka instead of Health, and the over-performing Sloads (which has yet to be properly nerfed).

Eclipse: Please redesign Eclipse altogether. ZOS, check your ability useage telemetry/measurements/statistics. Hardly anyone uses this ability, especially in PvP, because everyone knows it is on them and it is free CC-immunity for enemy players. Eclipse needs to greatly be changed and reworked altogether, or remove it altogether, and give Templar back Blinding Light/Blinding Flashes with a catch, or something else entirely.

Repentance: It has been said time and time again about Repentance. Please re-buff this ability so Templar tank + Stamplar or Stamplar + Stamplar(s) do not have to fight each other for resource sustain/regen. Make Repentance's usage unique to each Templar themselves. They can coexist!

Piercing Javelin: Increase the damage. Even slightly? Or something. I don't know what else to say.

Passives:

Balanced Warrior: Add 6% spell damage and 2640 physical resistance to the 2/2 "Balanced Warrior" passive (which currently gives 6% weapon damage and 2640 spell resistance).

Spear Wall: Add a 10% reduction cost in blocking to the Spear Wall passive. This will make enable Templar to be a more viable tank, maybe even up to par with DKs. The Spear Wall passive currently only gives an increase in the amount of damage that you can block from melee attacks by 15%. This passive needs to to more than just that one thing, and if ZOS ever changes Spear Wall, any changes should compliment what Spear Wall already does. So, a slight decrease in blocking cost by 5% for 1/2 and 10% for 2/2 would help with that (rather than, say, 15% increase block damage from ranged attacks on top of 15% from melee. That might be too far in one direction).

Light Weaver: "Channeling Rite of Passage grants you 16500 Physical and Spell Resistance" this should also add 10% or 20% Healing Received upon yourself while channeling this ability. The 16500 resistances while channeling is largely useless for most Templars since they are already at or near the resistance cap without this effect.
For example, PvP Templar Healers are already wearing 5/5 heavy armor and/or are already using Rune Focus or Mighty Chudan (or other sources) for the Major Ward/Resolve buffs. The 16500 physical/spell resistance from channeling Rite of Passage (+ morphs) is largely ineffective and rendered useless when the great majority of Templars are already at the Physical/Spell Resistance cap.
Adding 10% or 20% Healing Received upon yourself while channeling the Rite of Passage ability (+ morphs) would greatly help with Templar survivability and how slow the healing speed/animation is with this ultimate ability. This healing-received addition would help to prevent Templars from instantly getting killed while Channeling this ultimate ability because the heal speed/animation is far too slow, which makes this ability weak. In addition, the actual healing value done on Rite of Passage/Practiced Incantation/Remembrance is actually lower than that of Breath of Life. Making the healing speed/animation faster rather than increasing the amount healed for would be more effective in countering the issue with the instant-death-while-channeling-this-ulitmate-ability that Templars constantly face.

Master Ritualist: It has been mentioned before, but shouldn't this passive ability be placed into the Alliance War Support ability passive list, instead? (alongside or added to Alliance War Support's Battle Resurrection passive, which gives 30% faster resurrection time while in a PvP area.) Master Ritualist passive in the Templar Restoring Light tree: Increases resurrection speed by 20%, resurrected allies return with 100% more health, and gives you a 50% chance to fill an empty Soul Gem after each successful resurrection. Master Ritualist should be re-named to Battle Resurrection and moved into the Alliance War Support passive category, and Templar's Master Ritualist passive should be replaced and redesigned altogether. Please.

These are all of my current top issues/concerns with Templar, that I can think of at the moment, coming from my main Tankplar and Magplar characters. Primarily from a PvP perspective, and secondarily from a PvE perspective.

All of this.
I would also like to see 'Minor Courage' get added to Templar's "(Un)balanced Warrior" passive. The default 6% weapon damage and 2640 spell resistance are literally nothing. That is not balanced at all. Add 6% spell damage and 2640 physical resistance to compliment that; and, on top of that, give Templar Minor Courage, as well. Plus, Minor Courage fits with Templar's archetype -- holy warrior, stand-your-ground, etc.

Oh, and give Templar access to Major Sorcery full-time, so we don't have to waste a skill-slot on Entropy.
Or buff the 2-4 pieces on the Rattlecage set to make it even worth using, but that is also highly unlikely.
Vampire's Bane grants Major Prophecy, why not have Solar Barrage/Dark Flare grant Major Sorcery? Ya'know, be consistent with the theme there.

In agreement with other forum feedback, the Aedric Spear passives are utter trash and practically a waste of skill-points.
Take a look at Dragonknights' class passives, they all buff like 4 different things (attributes, abilities, procs, etc.) versus Templars' super-narrow passives that do 1 minuscule thing; AND you have to have the ability slotted. Complete trash. Totally unbalanced and imperfect.

Update after update, patch after patch -- months apart -- class abilities and class passive changes are way too small, ability/passive class balance changes are hardly noticeable and almost non-progressive.
Sure, Templar's Jesus Beam and Rune Focus got semi re-buffed this past update, but what about literally everything else? ZOS ignored the other 95% of the Templar class's abilities/passives, ONCE AGAIN.

Sure, ZOS can churn out more and more content, zone after zone; but it takes ZOS a full 12-month calendar year to change a few measly little under-performing passive abilities. And, that bad design makes the entire class and game content not enjoyable in the first place.

@ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_Wrobel @ZOS_RobGarrett read up: https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/317707/Steam_reviews_study_suggests_bad_design_not_bugs_irks_players_most.php
"Bad design -- not bugs -- irks players the most."
The story of ESO's Templar, 4 years running: bad design.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

Just reposting so it stays where people may read it:

Aedric Spear
Balanced Warrior: 3/6% Damage Dealth, 2/4% Reduced Damage Received
----the numbers may seem low, but will make sense when taken in conjunction with other changes suggested.

Burning Light: Aedric Spear skill proc exclusive, Static Damage with 0.5s CD, 25% chance to proc a secondary DoT for the Static Damage value over 3s; renewed proc just refreshes the duration.

Spear Wall: 8% Mitigation (blocking or not), while blocking, reflects damage at a max value of 20% of Max HP
----a reduced mitigation value than other classes, because it is also returning damage with a conditional

Piercing Spear: 10% Critical Damage, 400 Magic Damage bonus to Aedric Spear skills(does not apply further bonus to Burning Light)
----makes your Aedric Spear skills actually worth using

Radial Sweep/Morphs: Increase PBAoE range by 2m, double the rider proc to 0.5s ticks

Puncturing Strike/Morphs: Primarily fix the hitbox; have both morphs heal the Templar based on Damage done
---it's not unknown to have a Stamina related heal, so there is no real reason not to let Templar actually use their primary damage in either mainstat iteration.

Piercing Javelin/Morphs: Aurora Javelin --- KnockDOWN (not back), remove variable distance damage, apply a short debuff increasing damage target receives by 10% from next attack
Binding Javelin ---KnockDOWN (not back) + 3s hard snare, apply a short debuff chance to miss next attack (15% miss chance for 5s or so)

Focused Charge: Explosive Charge is actually fine as is, maybe could use a slight cost reduction.
Toppling Charge, becomes a Stam Morph, AoE like Explosive, does a Knockdown/Interrupt---literally just make it a stam variant morph of Explosive, without the stun

Spear Shards: As is really; while it would be nice to have a Stam morph of it, there isn't really a place to do so without adding another morph, though it could be possible to keep it as a magicka cost, but add the damage done based on highest stat.

Sun Shield: Radiant Ward is actually functioning well, simply change it to function off of mainstat +hp (so if HP is your main stat, no change, if it isn't, magplar gets a boost to utilize)
Blazing Shield change to a Stam variant, rename to Radiant Vengeance, value based off of Max Stam, physical damage AoE on cast

Dawn's Wrath
Restoring Spirit: Rename to Resilient Spirit, cost reduction all 6/12%, reduce damage received 1/2% as HP drops below 50% (max bonus value at 10% hp)

Illuminate: Minor sorcery to all is fine, could give Major Sorcery to the Templar also, but that can also be addressed elsewhere.

Prism: sits in line for where it should be, once Dawn's skills become more desirable

Enduring Rays: remove the limited list, 2s Duration increase applies to all Dawn's Wrath skills, done.

Eclipse: Total Dark, instead of making this target the enemy, have it apply to the caster. It then returns damage/heals to the Templar based on being attacked by direct damage. Still serves its intended purpose, but removes the problem of it being CC-breakable.

Unstable Core: make into on-target, Stamina morph, explosion after duration ends, applies minor stamina steal to the target. No CC aspect to worry about.

Solar Flare: Dark Flare, have ramp up damage 5% (to a maximum of 25%) for chain casts of the skill, ~10% cost reduction of current form.

Solar Barrage....there are a lot of changes being down with this, keep it with Empower is fine, make the damage scale off of main stat, remove the cast time, reduced damage, but have each subsequent proc increase damage if hitting the same target(s), again up to 25% maximum. Makes it viable for both AoE trash burning, and single target killing due to the Empower effect.

Sun Fire/Morphs: Remove the damn fire effect, just make it magic damage (rename the skill as needed). Vampire's Bane fine as is, Reflective Light increase the range of the other targets, and instead of having it 3 projectiles, have it primary target and then 2 additional targets within that range from point of impact on the primary (say perhaps 7m).

Nova/Morphs: 15% base damage increase, Solar Disturbance also restores resources (mag and stam) to allies in the area, Gravity crush applies a supplemental DoT on the target besides the ground AoE damage effect.

Restoring Light

Master Ritualist: add cc-immunity and/or damage reduction while resurrecting. It's a niche, but an important one when it happens.

Light Weaver: receiving healing from a restoring light ability grants 2 ultimate and 1% of highest stat pool recovered. ONLY applies when actually receiving a heal, not just a tick while at full.

Sacred Ground: the slow effect is fine, add in a small value restoring shield also through the duration of a skill, so that all templar Restoring Light skills that effect a heal/debuff also grant allies a small bit of mitigation, 1-1.2 shield. Not a HUGE amount, but enough to take the edge off of some attacks.

Cleansing Ritual/Morphs: Slight increase to area, Retribution increase the tick damage about 17%, Extended have it remove 1 harmful effect from allies in the area on cast (6s CD) with synergy remaining as is.

Repentance: Make into an AoE Debuff, restores health and stamina on hit on target, so it is for active play --- flat values, so it'd be akin to Major Lifesteal, Major Stamsteal.

Healing Ritual: Reduce the cost if you are going to make it instant-cast. This skill used to be able to put up big numbers when used properly, as it is currently it is a very limited use burst heal. If the cost is going to remain as high as it currently is, return the secondary heal for 1/2 value to effected targets after a 3s delay. Even with that, it still needs a slight cost reduction to be useful.

Practiced Incantation: Allies in the effect explode for 20% of damage received during the 8s Duration of this heal ultimate (like a reverse Purifying Light basically).

Remembrance: Allies receiving damage store the damage and receive it as a shield after the effect ends (again 20% cap).

I know this is a long read, and I left some skills unmentioned, because they are actively working on them, but it would add a bit of sustain, a bit of resilience, an increase in damage to Templar for actually using Templar skills. Obviously these are just base suggestions, not fully comprehensive, or tested --- values and effects would need to be examined and adjusted.