[Class Rep] Templar Feedback Thread

Checkmath

Edelner wrote: »

What do you think about Stamplar DPS 2h + bow?

you will trade rending slashes for the cleave from 2h as a dot, where the 2h cleave isnt as strong as rending. also you will miss the opportunity of blade cloak.

hedna123b14_ESO

Checkmath wrote: »

Edelner wrote: »

What do you think about Stamplar DPS 2h + bow?

you will trade rending slashes for the cleave from 2h as a dot, where the 2h cleave isnt as strong as rending. also you will miss the opportunity of blade cloak.

I actually tested this on pts. Definitely lower st damage than DW, but probably no more than 5k in a fully buffed group. Definitely not bis, but can be fun.

anadandy

Drdeath20 wrote: »

J
Templar passives are outdated, overly narrow, we have the most passives the simply boost subpar skills to at best average skills, theres is nothing stackable and there really is little reason to choose templars skills over other world skills.

THIS.

Minno

Checkmath wrote: »

Edelner wrote: »

What do you think about Stamplar DPS 2h + bow?

you will trade rending slashes for the cleave from 2h as a dot, where the 2h cleave isnt as strong as rending. also you will miss the opportunity of blade cloak.

In PvP youll gain a cheaper version of javelin cc that heals you, a ranged applied dot that adds pressure on low health, and ability to Regen stamina from range with heavy attacks (also AOE applied immobilze).

The ultimate also let's you bar swap to your 2h bar and jab away.

Solinur

I wondered a bit why everybody thinks the damage reduction alongside the cast time reduction for Solar Barrage is a nerf.
So I looked at it in a bit more detail here: Comparison of Solar Barrage on Live and PTS
In short it looks to me that the damage per cast time stayed the same, making it still the same use in a PvE rotation.

hedna123b14_ESO

Solinur wrote: »

I wondered a bit why everybody thinks the damage reduction alongside the cast time reduction for Solar Barrage is a nerf.
So I looked at it in a bit more detail here: Comparison of Solar Barrage on Live and PTS
In short it looks to me that the damage per cast time stayed the same, making it still the same use in a PvE rotation.

It's useless because the cost increase is insane. On live it's a channel, which means the channel time allows you to regen magicka and thus compensate for it's high cost. On pts there is no channel and the cost is the same, but the damage is nerfed. Additionally with the buff to Radiant it means that Barrage will be kept up even less throughout the fight. Basically I've gotten more dps because of better sustain without barrage than with it..

Solinur

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Solinur wrote: »

I wondered a bit why everybody thinks the damage reduction alongside the cast time reduction for Solar Barrage is a nerf.
So I looked at it in a bit more detail here: Comparison of Solar Barrage on Live and PTS
In short it looks to me that the damage per cast time stayed the same, making it still the same use in a PvE rotation.

It's useless because the cost increase is insane. On live it's a channel, which means the channel time allows you to regen magicka and thus compensate for it's high cost. On pts there is no channel and the cost is the same, but the damage is nerfed. Additionally with the buff to Radiant it means that Barrage will be kept up even less throughout the fight. Basically I've gotten more dps because of better sustain without barrage than with it..

Didn't look into the cost. Good point!

frattastic

Toppling Charge & Binding Javelin: These should be combined into one skill, with one morph being the stamina version and one more being the magicka version. There is no reason to have two spear stun abilities; almost no one uses 3 of the 4 possible choices anyway. For example, stamina templar needs a gap closer, yet the only stamina spear ability actually pushes the target away. Combine these skills into one skill branch, leaving one brand-new spear ability open for...well, anything.

Solar Pison: Make this cast-on-self like Eye of the Storm is. This would make it actually useful in PvE and especially PvP.

Ritual of Rebirth: Make this ability a Heal Over Time, like a magicka version of Vigor. Compared with Breath of Life or Combat Prayer, this skill rarely gets used as is.

Sun Shield: Have one morph of this ability scale off of max magicka instead of max health. The two existing morphs are too similar to be very distinguishable. Making sun shield scale off of max magicka would make it comparable to a Sorcerer's Hardened Ward.

BohnT

Checkmath wrote: »

Guys is this all feedback you got? Everything covered with the last meeting notes? I hardly can believe that.
Anyway once again, give me your feedback, just maybe for a while ignore jesus beam (gets buffed), rune focus (gets somehow buffed), solar barrage (buff and nerf), magplar dps capablities (comes with update 20) and stamplar sustain/support (also comes with update 20). I really want to hear about every other concern/problem you have with the class.

Here's some more Feedback:

The ultimates are weak and are often bested by other ultimates.

Radial sweep doesn't work well with the class' main source of burst backlash, the dot has a 6 seconds duration while backlash has a 6 seconds duration aswell meaning either we lose one dot tick or the initial hit doesn't contribute to the stored damage, DBOS doesn't has any of these issues as the duration is 5 seconds and the stun is very benefical on top of that.

Nova is just meh it's so expensive and there has never been a day when i hopped on my stamplar or magplar and thought: i should really play with Nova now, i like the visuals and all but it's just so weak especially in pvp and you need someone to use the synergy for the ult to be somewhat useful and not a 240 ult dump.

The solar disturbance effect should be part of the base skill, while changing this morph to fit the stand your ground playestyle:
Reduce the cost to 150 ult
Remove the synergy
The ult only deals damage every 2 seconds( more bursty) and only when you have been inside the ult for these 2 seconds
When you were able to reach 4 or more ticks (you stood your ground for at least 80% of the duration) the nova will blow up and deal the damage the synergy normally provides

Remembrance is also often a horrible ultimate, everytime i see a templar in pvp using this in order to survive, i know that they will be dead just seconds after the effect ends, sometimes even during the effect.
Locking yourself to the ground while only healing makes that ult only useful for healers, you won't be able to flip a fight just because you heal back to full as everyone else can just do the same while you channel it.
The resto ult for example gives you the opportunity to stay offensive while you get heals, same with 1h&s ult, even devouring swarm brings more to the table when you want to survive because you continue to deal damage while you heal yourself.
It's nice to have one pure healing ultimate but i don't see the point of having 2 morphs that aren't really that special to begin with, when one would easily do the trick while the other could offer different things.


Skills:
Aedric Spear
Jabs: Fix the bugs, it's a great skill but the bugs are really annoying
Javalin: as mentioned very often change it to a meele CC similar to reverb (with synergy to the templars skills)
Toppling charge: Fix the bugs so i don't have to call that skill templar airforce any longer and remove the range requirement
Shards: fine imo
Sun shield: completely rework this skill or one morph to be more than a skill for high health builds that don't synergise with the templars toolkit

Balanced warrior: Make it actually balanced and add spell damage and Physical resistance

Dawn's Wrath
Sun fire: fine imo
Solar Barrage: Reduce the cost by 20% in order to balance the removal of the cast time and buff the damage slightly
Backlash: only use the casters damage but increase the percentage of damage stored to 35% to make up for it, fix the bugs with the explosion
Eclipse: Make the break free more responsive and the skill more visible, i have multiple occasions where i didn't have any visuals on me, also change the skill to have more of a middle ground rather than being useless when people just break free
Jesus Beam: half the duration and cost so we don't lose out on as many light attacks as we do now


Illuminate/prism: feels rather meh when dk gets the same thing but with one passive (mountain's Blessing and yeah it's minor brutality but still)
Restoring light: increase to 6% (sorcs have 5% on mag and stam and 15% on ultimates, while having other regen passives aswell)

Restoring light:

Breath of light: is this skill even used after 5 nerfs or something? Maybe remove the second heal and do something special,
add a cost penalty like but also change it's priority to be higher than other skills and not affected by their gcd ( still has an own gcd like dodge roll) this would highly strengthen magplars defence while still keeping it fully reactive, meaning the templar still has to put himself on the risk of getting killed when he wants to get a kill but to distinguish templars from all other classes they now have the strongest tool to swap from offence to defence.
(This change is really huge and I'm not sure how it plays out, this would mean that templar should also never have access to proactive defences as that would be too much then)
Healing ritual: fine imo
Repentance: okayish but feels lacking in the grand scheme
Radiant Aura: Remove the aggroing and reduce the cost slightly
Purge: add this: while inside the aoe all roots turn into 70% snares and all snares are reduced by 40%, meaning templar has root immunity but it's different to other classes so templar is still "slower but not molasses in an igloo slow" also it means that the templar is always as fast as someone who doesn't has snare immunity while they are both inside the house
Rune focus: fine

Mending: add a description when you reach which value (i'm still not sure up to this date)
Sacred ground: add this while inside your rune focus or purge you increase your healing done by 2% every 2 seconds (maximum 10% effect ends when you leave the area or recast the ability)
Light weaver: feels meh but don't know what to do with this
Master ritualist: decent passive but absolutely useless in most fights, for solo play and in many other occasions.


I guess that's most of it.
Please look especially at those proposals:
Breath of life, Solar disturbance, Sacred Ground, Backlash

Neoauspex

Hey class reps, next time there's a meeting with ZoS ask them if they are willing to share their data on skill usage. Even if it's just with the reps and not public. They've said in the past that they use this info in determining buffs/nerfs, I'd be curious to see if actually there's a ton of people running Nova in PvP even though I haven't seen it cast in 3 years or so.

hopewithoutwingsub17_ESO

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

How is it you can ambush with impunity but you can't Toppling charge without getting knockbacked mid charge EVERY time? Fix it ffs ZoS. This is what is wrong with Templar abilities. Literally every analogous version of what we have is better, which is why so much of us deep six our class ultimates for ultimates that actually work.

The healing ultimate is infuriating. It is HORRIBLE. The Aedric spear ultimate is one of the worst ultimates in the game, neither defensive or damaging it is a steaming pile of garbage. Nova Tickles enemies unless someone synergizes, and even then its pretty weak and easily avoided. I dissuade new players from playing Templar. I actively dissuade them. They should go play Warden or DK. They'll be much happier.

I main a templar and this is sad to read.

anadandy wrote: »

I made a concerted effort to play my Templar with actual Templar abilities last week. I won't mention the stuff that's already being addressed but I can absolutely concur with the dreadful reliability of jabs. It was really funny too - watching the ESO Live of Devs vs whoever in BGS - and even a Dev had that classic Jabs Whiff.

Mobility - and the Templar curse of not being able to mount your horse for several seconds after combat end or Arkay forbid you heal/buff someone.

And pretty much everything @Darkmage1337 said. Especially Backlash not aggoing. Elemental drain does't aggro either.

I removed puncturing from my build/bar a while ago.

I thought it was normal not being able to mount your horse for several seconds after combat? No other class has to deal with this?

Suddwrath

Checkmath wrote: »

Guys is this all feedback you got? Everything covered with the last meeting notes? I hardly can believe that.
Anyway once again, give me your feedback, just maybe for a while ignore jesus beam (gets buffed), rune focus (gets somehow buffed), solar barrage (buff and nerf), magplar dps capablities (comes with update 20) and stamplar sustain/support (also comes with update 20). I really want to hear about every other concern/problem you have with the class.

1) Passives

As others have said, the passives for Templars are simply outdated and outmatched by other classes.

2) Sun Shield

Oh Sun Shield. The suggestions to fix this skill are endless, so I will just give my two cents on how to improve it:

1. Have one of the morphs scale off max magicka so that it can be viable shield for magplars.
2. Or redesign the skill completely and possibly move it to the Dawn's Wrath tree. When activated, Sun Shield increases the flame resistance of self and nearby group members. The Radiant Ward morph gains the additional effect of increasing healing received to nearby group members. The Blazing Shield morph removes the flame resistance and changes it to providing increased flame damage for self and nearby group members.

The suggestion for Sun Shield would provide a defensive morph which would make it attractive for groups which have several DPS who are vampires which would allow them to remain in higher vampire stages. The offensive morph would just help with overall DPS at the expensive of losing any defensive utility.

anadandy

hopewithoutwingsub17_ESO wrote: »

I thought it was normal not being able to mount your horse for several seconds after combat? No other class has to deal with this?

I'm probably wrong - it might be a system wide thing, but it always seems like I am the last person in my group that can mount - they're all on their horses and I'm (slowly) running after them until I can mount.

ganj1234

1. spear shards and ritual need visual indicators that let us know when they've been synergized. Have the spear shards/ritual glow BRIGHT blue when they have been activated, and have my ally glow BRIGHT blue for a few seconds after synergizing so that I know who has gotten their resources returned/effects removed. Sometimes I see people doing the animation, but other times I do not.

2. remembrance/practice incantation should still be channeled but you should be able to move while channeling. Or at least make one morph that lets us move while channeling. You still can't block, sprint, roll dodge or get rapids cast upon you so I really don't think this is asking a lot. When you are in a coordinated group and they're dying while also trying to retreat, are Templar healers expected to stand behind them to channel it, thus sacrificing themselves? I mean, sometimes if we're lucky we can mist form/roll dodge/sprint after channeling but this is risky and unreliable.

3. Sun shield -- have one morph scale based on health, strengthen it (to an extent) based on how many enemies are in a X m radius while still making it explode after X amount of seconds, doing burst magic damage based the amount it absorbed. Increase the cost if it is cast again within 4 (or however many) seconds so that people can't just run into a group of mobs or a zerg and spam it mindlessly. Have the other morph scale off spell damage, and have it do X magic damage every .5 seconds for X seconds in a ground aoe at the location in which the shield was cast. A percentage of the damage taken by the first enemy to enter to ground aoe will heal the templar or a friendly target. If the shield is cast while there is still a ground aoe, the shield will still apply but the additional effects will not take place. This means the templar should only use the shield when they feel it necessary. This distinguishes it from the way other classes use shields.

The first morph allows players to build tankier but without having to pour all attributes into health, only some. The second compliments a melee magicka dps while still monopolizing "the house". This would be helpful in pvp because there are a handful of magplars who don't run resto and who don't run light armor. The class has limited mobility, is bombarded with defiles that ruin our healing, so to have a little bit of mitigation that doesn't just come from permablocking would be greatly beneficial. Also, it's not like this is a cheap skill. Magplar is not a shield stacker, which is why the shield will scale off spell damage and why it should be used tactfully.

4. toppling charge -- stamina morph is needed, should still hard cc. This offers dualwielding stamplars a reliable hard cc and a gap close. The magicka one should be a celestial shield/orb, rather than a lance. The animation could be that you break your shield/orb upon bashing it into your opponent, rooting and applying minor staminasteal to the target ( returning stamina to you and your allies while damaging them). I don't think staminasteal is a thing, but it would make templar a little bit more unique, and it would compensate for the changes to repentance. This magicka morph would also be viable to stamplars who want to dip into their magicka pool (this would be risky because they need their rune and their cleanse).

5. javelin -- in relation to my suggestions for toppling charge, leave it. It doesn't hit hard, and with changes and improvements to other skills, it should be used as a DEFENSIVE ranged cc. It is not part of the dps rotation. It is circumstantial.

6. Honor the dead/BoL -- I understand this will only heal you or an ally in front of you, however if my ally is behind a pillar yet is still in front of me, I should be able to heal them anyway. In some maps/instances, I am rooted behind a collision, and even though my ally is near, I cannot help them. I should not be expected to blow my stamina pool on roll-dodging out of a root just so I can burst heal my ally that is already in close proximity. Obviously I shouldn't be healing them though a wall, but if its just a tree or a pillar, they should still be getting healed. BoL is good in PvE and large groups, but I think it needs something else. As stated by Joy, perhaps a cost increase if cast again within 3 seconds of the first cast while still adding something like a 10% change to grant minor courage (or some other buff) to one target.

Stibbons

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Solinur wrote: »

I wondered a bit why everybody thinks the damage reduction alongside the cast time reduction for Solar Barrage is a nerf.
So I looked at it in a bit more detail here: Comparison of Solar Barrage on Live and PTS
In short it looks to me that the damage per cast time stayed the same, making it still the same use in a PvE rotation.

It's useless because the cost increase is insane. On live it's a channel, which means the channel time allows you to regen magicka and thus compensate for it's high cost. On pts there is no channel and the cost is the same, but the damage is nerfed. Additionally with the buff to Radiant it means that Barrage will be kept up even less throughout the fight. Basically I've gotten more dps because of better sustain without barrage than with it..

Well it is overall nerf even thou it is supposed to be a buff. Shame.

maxjapank

Neoauspex wrote: »

Hey class reps, next time there's a meeting with ZoS ask them if they are willing to share their data on skill usage. Even if it's just with the reps and not public. They've said in the past that they use this info in determining buffs/nerfs, I'd be curious to see if actually there's a ton of people running Nova in PvP even though I haven't seen it cast in 3 years or so.

Nova is very powerful in a group. I personally use Solar all the time in pvp, and know another guild that uses the other morph. I don’t think it needs to be changed at all. And I’d be very unhappy if it did, except lowering the cost. But Templars do need a solo Ulti to use. I’d make the Aedric Ulti more useful.

Vajrak

Well....This is going to take a minute. I play Templar. I love my Templar. I'm sad that a lot of people struggle with Templar, or try to play it like it's a DK or a NB, instead of embracing that it is a Templar. That being said, it does need some modifications to bring it in line with the other classes. So, with that in mind, and may not address every possible skill or change, these are the changes I would suggest to skills/passives to bring Templar back to par and maintain it in a niche.

Aedric Spear
Balanced Warrior: 3/6% Damage Dealth, 2/4% Reduced Damage Received
----the numbers may seem low, but will make sense when taken in conjunction with other changes suggested.

Burning Light: Aedric Spear skill proc exclusive, Static Damage with 0.5s CD, 25% chance to proc a secondary DoT for the Static Damage value over 3s; renewed proc just refreshes the duration.

Spear Wall: 8% Mitigation (blocking or not), while blocking, reflects damage at a max value of 20% of Max HP
----a reduced mitigation value than other classes, because it is also returning damage with a conditional

Piercing Spear: 10% Critical Damage, 400 Magic Damage bonus to Aedric Spear skills(does not apply further bonus to Burning Light)
----makes your Aedric Spear skills actually worth using

Radial Sweep/Morphs: Increase PBAoE range by 2m, double the rider proc to 0.5s ticks

Puncturing Strike/Morphs: Primarily fix the hitbox; have both morphs heal the Templar based on Damage done
---it's not unknown to have a Stamina related heal, so there is no real reason not to let Templar actually use their primary damage in either mainstat iteration.

Piercing Javelin/Morphs: Aurora Javelin --- KnockDOWN (not back), remove variable distance damage, apply a short debuff increasing damage target receives by 10% from next attack
Binding Javelin ---KnockDOWN (not back) + 3s hard snare, apply a short debuff chance to miss next attack (15% miss chance for 5s or so)

Focused Charge: Explosive Charge is actually fine as is, maybe could use a slight cost reduction.
Toppling Charge, becomes a Stam Morph, AoE like Explosive, does a Knockdown/Interrupt---literally just make it a stam variant morph of Explosive, without the stun

Spear Shards: As is really; while it would be nice to have a Stam morph of it, there isn't really a place to do so without adding another morph, though it could be possible to keep it as a magicka cost, but add the damage done based on highest stat.

Sun Shield: Radiant Ward is actually functioning well, simply change it to function off of mainstat +hp (so if HP is your main stat, no change, if it isn't, magplar gets a boost to utilize)
Blazing Shield change to a Stam variant, rename to Radiant Vengeance, value based off of Max Stam, physical damage AoE on cast

Dawn's Wrath
Restoring Spirit: Rename to Resilient Spirit, cost reduction all 6/12%, reduce damage received 1/2% as HP drops below 50% (max bonus value at 10% hp)

Illuminate: Minor sorcery to all is fine, could give Major Sorcery to the Templar also, but that can also be addressed elsewhere.

Prism: sits in line for where it should be, once Dawn's skills become more desirable

Enduring Rays: remove the limited list, 2s Duration increase applies to all Dawn's Wrath skills, done.

Eclipse: Total Dark, instead of making this target the enemy, have it apply to the caster. It then returns damage/heals to the Templar based on being attacked by direct damage. Still serves its intended purpose, but removes the problem of it being CC-breakable.

Unstable Core: make into on-target, Stamina morph, explosion after duration ends, applies minor stamina steal to the target. No CC aspect to worry about.

Solar Flare: Dark Flare, have ramp up damage 5% (to a maximum of 25%) for chain casts of the skill, ~10% cost reduction of current form.

Solar Barrage....there are a lot of changes being down with this, keep it with Empower is fine, make the damage scale off of main stat, remove the cast time, reduced damage, but have each subsequent proc increase damage if hitting the same target(s), again up to 25% maximum. Makes it viable for both AoE trash burning, and single target killing due to the Empower effect.

Sun Fire/Morphs: Remove the damn fire effect, just make it magic damage (rename the skill as needed). Vampire's Bane fine as is, Reflective Light increase the range of the other targets, and instead of having it 3 projectiles, have it primary target and then 2 additional targets within that range from point of impact on the primary (say perhaps 7m).

Nova/Morphs: 15% base damage increase, Solar Disturbance also restores resources (mag and stam) to allies in the area, Gravity crush applies a supplemental DoT on the target besides the ground AoE damage effect.

Restoring Light

Master Ritualist: add cc-immunity and/or damage reduction while resurrecting. It's a niche, but an important one when it happens.

Light Weaver: receiving healing from a restoring light ability grants 2 ultimate and 1% of highest stat pool recovered. ONLY applies when actually receiving a heal, not just a tick while at full.

Sacred Ground: the slow effect is fine, add in a small value restoring shield also through the duration of a skill, so that all templar Restoring Light skills that effect a heal/debuff also grant allies a small bit of mitigation, 1-1.2 shield. Not a HUGE amount, but enough to take the edge off of some attacks.

Cleansing Ritual/Morphs: Slight increase to area, Retribution increase the tick damage about 17%, Extended have it remove 1 harmful effect from allies in the area on cast (6s CD) with synergy remaining as is.

Repentance: Make into an AoE Debuff, restores health and stamina on hit on target, so it is for active play --- flat values, so it'd be akin to Major Lifesteal, Major Stamsteal.

Healing Ritual: Reduce the cost if you are going to make it instant-cast. This skill used to be able to put up big numbers when used properly, as it is currently it is a very limited use burst heal. If the cost is going to remain as high as it currently is, return the secondary heal for 1/2 value to effected targets after a 3s delay. Even with that, it still needs a slight cost reduction to be useful.

Practiced Incantation: Allies in the effect explode for 20% of damage received during the 8s Duration of this heal ultimate (like a reverse Purifying Light basically).

Remembrance: Allies receiving damage store the damage and receive it as a shield after the effect ends (again 20% cap).

I know this is a long read, and I left some skills unmentioned, because they are actively working on them, but it would add a bit of sustain, a bit of resilience, an increase in damage to Templar for actually using Templar skills. Obviously these are just base suggestions, not fully comprehensive, or tested --- values and effects would need to be examined and adjusted.

Neoauspex

maxjapank wrote: »

Neoauspex wrote: »

Hey class reps, next time there's a meeting with ZoS ask them if they are willing to share their data on skill usage. Even if it's just with the reps and not public. They've said in the past that they use this info in determining buffs/nerfs, I'd be curious to see if actually there's a ton of people running Nova in PvP even though I haven't seen it cast in 3 years or so.

Nova is very powerful in a group. I personally use Solar all the time in pvp, and know another guild that uses the other morph. I don’t think it needs to be changed at all. And I’d be very unhappy if it did, except lowering the cost. But Templars do need a solo Ulti to use. I’d make the Aedric Ulti more useful.

Nova was just an example, and I used that example because it costs too much. And that's why I'm interested in the data, so I can see how many people slot skills like this. I urge you to stop slotting it so the data indicates that the cost should be reduced. In the meantime, use a scattershot catapult instead; it costs way less ultimate.

Totally agree about the solo ultimate.

Neoauspex

Double post

Neoauspex

Double post

maxjapank

Neoauspex wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

Neoauspex wrote: »

Hey class reps, next time there's a meeting with ZoS ask them if they are willing to share their data on skill usage. Even if it's just with the reps and not public. They've said in the past that they use this info in determining buffs/nerfs, I'd be curious to see if actually there's a ton of people running Nova in PvP even though I haven't seen it cast in 3 years or so.

Nova is very powerful in a group. I personally use Solar all the time in pvp, and know another guild that uses the other morph. I don’t think it needs to be changed at all. And I’d be very unhappy if it did, except lowering the cost. But Templars do need a solo Ulti to use. I’d make the Aedric Ulti more useful.

Nova was just an example, and I used that example because it costs too much. And that's why I'm interested in the data, so I can see how many people slot skills like this. I urge you to stop slotting it so the data indicates that the cost should be reduced. In the meantime, use a scattershot catapult instead; it costs way less ultimate.

Totally agree about the solo ultimate.

Why would I stop slotting it? I pvp with my guild almost nightly. And the snare of Solar and dmg mitigation are invaluable.

Minno

maxjapank wrote: »

Neoauspex wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

Neoauspex wrote: »

Hey class reps, next time there's a meeting with ZoS ask them if they are willing to share their data on skill usage. Even if it's just with the reps and not public. They've said in the past that they use this info in determining buffs/nerfs, I'd be curious to see if actually there's a ton of people running Nova in PvP even though I haven't seen it cast in 3 years or so.

Nova is very powerful in a group. I personally use Solar all the time in pvp, and know another guild that uses the other morph. I don’t think it needs to be changed at all. And I’d be very unhappy if it did, except lowering the cost. But Templars do need a solo Ulti to use. I’d make the Aedric Ulti more useful.

Nova was just an example, and I used that example because it costs too much. And that's why I'm interested in the data, so I can see how many people slot skills like this. I urge you to stop slotting it so the data indicates that the cost should be reduced. In the meantime, use a scattershot catapult instead; it costs way less ultimate.

Totally agree about the solo ultimate.

Why would I stop slotting it? I pvp with my guild almost nightly. And the snare of Solar and dmg mitigation are invaluable.

I thought solar doesn't snare anymore.

maxjapank

Minno wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

Neoauspex wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

Neoauspex wrote: »

Hey class reps, next time there's a meeting with ZoS ask them if they are willing to share their data on skill usage. Even if it's just with the reps and not public. They've said in the past that they use this info in determining buffs/nerfs, I'd be curious to see if actually there's a ton of people running Nova in PvP even though I haven't seen it cast in 3 years or so.

Nova is very powerful in a group. I personally use Solar all the time in pvp, and know another guild that uses the other morph. I don’t think it needs to be changed at all. And I’d be very unhappy if it did, except lowering the cost. But Templars do need a solo Ulti to use. I’d make the Aedric Ulti more useful.

Nova was just an example, and I used that example because it costs too much. And that's why I'm interested in the data, so I can see how many people slot skills like this. I urge you to stop slotting it so the data indicates that the cost should be reduced. In the meantime, use a scattershot catapult instead; it costs way less ultimate.

Totally agree about the solo ultimate.

Why would I stop slotting it? I pvp with my guild almost nightly. And the snare of Solar and dmg mitigation are invaluable.

I thought solar doesn't snare anymore.

It’s not on the tool tip. It hasn’t been there since Summerset. And I may be mistaking someone using Time Stop at the same time as my Solar. Visually they looked snared / slowed. But I don’t want to give false info. Cause I haven’t actually tested it. Never really cared cause the dmg reduction on enemies even after they leave for 6 secs is what I like about it most. But guess I should test it.

Minno

maxjapank wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

Neoauspex wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

Neoauspex wrote: »

Hey class reps, next time there's a meeting with ZoS ask them if they are willing to share their data on skill usage. Even if it's just with the reps and not public. They've said in the past that they use this info in determining buffs/nerfs, I'd be curious to see if actually there's a ton of people running Nova in PvP even though I haven't seen it cast in 3 years or so.

Nova is very powerful in a group. I personally use Solar all the time in pvp, and know another guild that uses the other morph. I don’t think it needs to be changed at all. And I’d be very unhappy if it did, except lowering the cost. But Templars do need a solo Ulti to use. I’d make the Aedric Ulti more useful.

Nova was just an example, and I used that example because it costs too much. And that's why I'm interested in the data, so I can see how many people slot skills like this. I urge you to stop slotting it so the data indicates that the cost should be reduced. In the meantime, use a scattershot catapult instead; it costs way less ultimate.

Totally agree about the solo ultimate.

Why would I stop slotting it? I pvp with my guild almost nightly. And the snare of Solar and dmg mitigation are invaluable.

I thought solar doesn't snare anymore.

It’s not on the tool tip. It hasn’t been there since Summerset. And I may be mistaking someone using Time Stop at the same time as my Solar. Visually they looked snared / slowed. But I don’t want to give false info. Cause I haven’t actually tested it. Never really cared cause the dmg reduction on enemies even after they leave for 6 secs is what I like about it most. But guess I should test it.

Depends on how slow they are walking around. I know Cinderstorm now grants a 70% snare ground targeted AOE.
That 70% will override all other snares under that amount (strongest snare replaces the lowest snares under it). so running a 30% snare when you have a DK healer spamming that ability, makes your 30% snare useless utility.

Either way, if the tool tip doesn't have a snare, chances are its not going to have a snare. But if it's granting a snare anyway, that might be a bug :P

maxjapank

Minno wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

Neoauspex wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

Neoauspex wrote: »

Hey class reps, next time there's a meeting with ZoS ask them if they are willing to share their data on skill usage. Even if it's just with the reps and not public. They've said in the past that they use this info in determining buffs/nerfs, I'd be curious to see if actually there's a ton of people running Nova in PvP even though I haven't seen it cast in 3 years or so.

Nova is very powerful in a group. I personally use Solar all the time in pvp, and know another guild that uses the other morph. I don’t think it needs to be changed at all. And I’d be very unhappy if it did, except lowering the cost. But Templars do need a solo Ulti to use. I’d make the Aedric Ulti more useful.

Nova was just an example, and I used that example because it costs too much. And that's why I'm interested in the data, so I can see how many people slot skills like this. I urge you to stop slotting it so the data indicates that the cost should be reduced. In the meantime, use a scattershot catapult instead; it costs way less ultimate.

Totally agree about the solo ultimate.

Why would I stop slotting it? I pvp with my guild almost nightly. And the snare of Solar and dmg mitigation are invaluable.

I thought solar doesn't snare anymore.

It’s not on the tool tip. It hasn’t been there since Summerset. And I may be mistaking someone using Time Stop at the same time as my Solar. Visually they looked snared / slowed. But I don’t want to give false info. Cause I haven’t actually tested it. Never really cared cause the dmg reduction on enemies even after they leave for 6 secs is what I like about it most. But guess I should test it.

Depends on how slow they are walking around. I know Cinderstorm now grants a 70% snare ground targeted AOE.
That 70% will override all other snares under that amount (strongest snare replaces the lowest snares under it). so running a 30% snare when you have a DK healer spamming that ability, makes your 30% snare useless utility.

Either way, if the tool tip doesn't have a snare, chances are its not going to have a snare. But if it's granting a snare anyway, that might be a bug :P

Yeah. Definitely agree that if it is, it’s a bug. I’ll ask a friend to help me test it.

Gnortranermara

Neoauspex wrote: »

Hey class reps, next time there's a meeting with ZoS ask them if they are willing to share their data on skill usage. Even if it's just with the reps and not public. They've said in the past that they use this info in determining buffs/nerfs, I'd be curious to see if actually there's a ton of people running Nova in PvP even though I haven't seen it cast in 3 years or so.

Skill usage is a terrible proxy measurement for skill balance, and if ZOS is seriously using it for rebalancing purposes that would explain so much of the half-baked bro-math that seems to inform their decisions.

technohic

Can we work on jabs/sweeps more reliable to hit? They widened the hit box but it’s still unreliable in lag.

That and poor stam resource management and bad passives.

I like my Templar, just make it work a bit better

Neoauspex

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

Neoauspex wrote: »

Hey class reps, next time there's a meeting with ZoS ask them if they are willing to share their data on skill usage. Even if it's just with the reps and not public. They've said in the past that they use this info in determining buffs/nerfs, I'd be curious to see if actually there's a ton of people running Nova in PvP even though I haven't seen it cast in 3 years or so.

Skill usage is a terrible proxy measurement for skill balance, and if ZOS is seriously using it for rebalancing purposes that would explain so much of the half-baked bro-math that seems to inform their decisions.

What data would you use to evaluate a skill? Forum opinions?

Minno

Neoauspex wrote: »

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

Neoauspex wrote: »

Hey class reps, next time there's a meeting with ZoS ask them if they are willing to share their data on skill usage. Even if it's just with the reps and not public. They've said in the past that they use this info in determining buffs/nerfs, I'd be curious to see if actually there's a ton of people running Nova in PvP even though I haven't seen it cast in 3 years or so.

Skill usage is a terrible proxy measurement for skill balance, and if ZOS is seriously using it for rebalancing purposes that would explain so much of the half-baked bro-math that seems to inform their decisions.

What data would you use to evaluate a skill? Forum opinions?

Videos showing performance of ability at both end game and more casual situations.

Because skill usage only shows who are using them at the time they extract the data (or have skill points in them). And forum opinions are sometimes biased (especially those whose class has rewarding abilities, but are often terribads that can't outskill a better player on a less optimal class.)

But videos; they don't lie. They show if you are fighting pugs/less challenging content or are smashing more competitive builds.

casparian

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

Neoauspex wrote: »

Hey class reps, next time there's a meeting with ZoS ask them if they are willing to share their data on skill usage. Even if it's just with the reps and not public. They've said in the past that they use this info in determining buffs/nerfs, I'd be curious to see if actually there's a ton of people running Nova in PvP even though I haven't seen it cast in 3 years or so.

Skill usage is a terrible proxy measurement for skill balance, and if ZOS is seriously using it for rebalancing purposes that would explain so much of the half-baked bro-math that seems to inform their decisions.

I gave you an awesome just for "half-baked bro-math". Gonna have to find a way to integrate that phrase into my vocabulary now.