[Class Rep] Templar Feedback Thread

Jabbs_Giggity

Ariades_swe wrote: »

Fair enough.
Maybe you have more competitive players on Xbox since it seems you have the largest population.
Is it true both Vivec and Shor are pop locked?
On ps4 and eu PC most magplars switched to a destro setup with clench and drain but they still slot sweeps.
I'd say that your build is pretty much meta on eu.
I'm one of thw few magplars I know of that regularily sub out sweeps for force shock or elemental weapons. It sucks alot vs dodge spammers but in some situations it blows sweeps away in effectiveness.
And I think there's no reason to not go destro with elemental drain on a melee build as well.
Oh and btw I love swift jewelry for templars.

Yes, Vivec usually has an average queue of 18-30 on non-peak hours (EP) and 80-160 on weekends. Shor is mostly pop locked by DC and AD, depending on which faction those players are playing for. Xbox gets ALOT of faction swappers daily...
Only reason to still slot sweeps if you're not going to use it is for Melee range fights or 1v3+ because Magplar DPS/Burst is just not high enough to 1vX multiple targets with ST skills.
Right now I am running 2pc Pirate, 5pc Shackle, 5pc Spinner 2H/5L until I can get a hold of Overwhelming Surge jewelry. It shall be cancer, I know...but you have to do what you have to do...Destro as 2 slots now is money for a Templar.

Warganic wrote: »

Yeah man I know, I just use steel tornado on dw bar not a really an execute but it does an okay job. I still use jabs but it just sucks that Stamplar is so slow and we don't have a gap closer so agreeing with everything youre saying here I even use the same set up minus troll king and I use slimecraw will sometimes switch to selens in pve, pvp I just find it a bit too unreliable but yeah stamplar has no good health where as Stamden has one as well as innate stamina recovery the only thing templars have going for them is really Extended Ritual(I'm a pvp player mainly). It's crazy how you summer up my build in your post though because it's all you really can do to be somewhat effective in combat

Troll King + Vigor = God Mode on Stamplar (If you run Werewolf instead of Vamp) I can usually get Stam sustain to around 2400 and Health recovery up to 3200 on a Stamplar. The problem is that you are constantly locked down from snares/CC's that you get two cleanses and you're out of Magic! Then you factor in things like Sloads, proc sets, etc...Defense just flat out sucks! I usually have about 25,000/20,000 Res fully buffed and it's like I am not even wearing armor at all...

Jabbs_Giggity

Ariades_swe wrote: »

Maybe you have more competitive players on Xbox since it seems you have the largest population.

No...I would say (from my experience - I only play PVP in Vivec) that 60% of the players on Xbox NA in Cyrodiil are Zerg surfing, 20% are ganking, 10% run 6-man or smaller groups and 10% run solo.

Of this opinionated statistic, only 20% of population is "Competitive". Sure you die a lot...but that is because anywhere you go at any given time you will get stealth sniped, or have a new ***hole torn by a zerg running Permafrost and Spin2win.

Generally, Chalman is the most fought for keep in Vivec. To defend on EP is a nightmare...You are usually defending against a 90+ zerg of DC, with at least 15-30 AD pushing resources (working with DC) while DC rushes front door. AT THE SAME TIME you will have 50+ AD taking Arrius or Farragot to cut off EP at the gates...
EP constantly is fighting on both fronts and our Pop lock is always split between fighting DC and AD. *AD never pushes north in DC territory, not even to dethrone...

In the last week alone I have been seeing masses of 10+ Snipe Gank groups!!! Sooo unnecessary...

Jabbs_Giggity

Vajrak wrote: »

Just reposting so it stays where people may read it:

Aedric Spear
Balanced Warrior: 3/6% Damage Dealth, 2/4% Reduced Damage Received
----the numbers may seem low, but will make sense when taken in conjunction with other changes suggested.

Burning Light: Aedric Spear skill proc exclusive, Static Damage with 0.5s CD, 25% chance to proc a secondary DoT for the Static Damage value over 3s; renewed proc just refreshes the duration.

Spear Wall: 8% Mitigation (blocking or not), while blocking, reflects damage at a max value of 20% of Max HP
----a reduced mitigation value than other classes, because it is also returning damage with a conditional

Piercing Spear: 10% Critical Damage, 400 Magic Damage bonus to Aedric Spear skills(does not apply further bonus to Burning Light)
----makes your Aedric Spear skills actually worth using

Radial Sweep/Morphs: Increase PBAoE range by 2m, double the rider proc to 0.5s ticks

Puncturing Strike/Morphs: Primarily fix the hitbox; have both morphs heal the Templar based on Damage done
---it's not unknown to have a Stamina related heal, so there is no real reason not to let Templar actually use their primary damage in either mainstat iteration.

Piercing Javelin/Morphs: Aurora Javelin --- KnockDOWN (not back), remove variable distance damage, apply a short debuff increasing damage target receives by 10% from next attack
Binding Javelin ---KnockDOWN (not back) + 3s hard snare, apply a short debuff chance to miss next attack (15% miss chance for 5s or so)

Focused Charge: Explosive Charge is actually fine as is, maybe could use a slight cost reduction.
Toppling Charge, becomes a Stam Morph, AoE like Explosive, does a Knockdown/Interrupt---literally just make it a stam variant morph of Explosive, without the stun

Spear Shards: As is really; while it would be nice to have a Stam morph of it, there isn't really a place to do so without adding another morph, though it could be possible to keep it as a magicka cost, but add the damage done based on highest stat.

Sun Shield: Radiant Ward is actually functioning well, simply change it to function off of mainstat +hp (so if HP is your main stat, no change, if it isn't, magplar gets a boost to utilize)
Blazing Shield change to a Stam variant, rename to Radiant Vengeance, value based off of Max Stam, physical damage AoE on cast

Dawn's Wrath
Restoring Spirit: Rename to Resilient Spirit, cost reduction all 6/12%, reduce damage received 1/2% as HP drops below 50% (max bonus value at 10% hp)

Illuminate: Minor sorcery to all is fine, could give Major Sorcery to the Templar also, but that can also be addressed elsewhere.

Prism: sits in line for where it should be, once Dawn's skills become more desirable

Enduring Rays: remove the limited list, 2s Duration increase applies to all Dawn's Wrath skills, done.

Eclipse: Total Dark, instead of making this target the enemy, have it apply to the caster. It then returns damage/heals to the Templar based on being attacked by direct damage. Still serves its intended purpose, but removes the problem of it being CC-breakable.

Unstable Core: make into on-target, Stamina morph, explosion after duration ends, applies minor stamina steal to the target. No CC aspect to worry about.

Solar Flare: Dark Flare, have ramp up damage 5% (to a maximum of 25%) for chain casts of the skill, ~10% cost reduction of current form.

Solar Barrage....there are a lot of changes being down with this, keep it with Empower is fine, make the damage scale off of main stat, remove the cast time, reduced damage, but have each subsequent proc increase damage if hitting the same target(s), again up to 25% maximum. Makes it viable for both AoE trash burning, and single target killing due to the Empower effect.

Sun Fire/Morphs: Remove the damn fire effect, just make it magic damage (rename the skill as needed). Vampire's Bane fine as is, Reflective Light increase the range of the other targets, and instead of having it 3 projectiles, have it primary target and then 2 additional targets within that range from point of impact on the primary (say perhaps 7m).

Nova/Morphs: 15% base damage increase, Solar Disturbance also restores resources (mag and stam) to allies in the area, Gravity crush applies a supplemental DoT on the target besides the ground AoE damage effect.

Restoring Light

Master Ritualist: add cc-immunity and/or damage reduction while resurrecting. It's a niche, but an important one when it happens.

Light Weaver: receiving healing from a restoring light ability grants 2 ultimate and 1% of highest stat pool recovered. ONLY applies when actually receiving a heal, not just a tick while at full.

Sacred Ground: the slow effect is fine, add in a small value restoring shield also through the duration of a skill, so that all templar Restoring Light skills that effect a heal/debuff also grant allies a small bit of mitigation, 1-1.2 shield. Not a HUGE amount, but enough to take the edge off of some attacks.

Cleansing Ritual/Morphs: Slight increase to area, Retribution increase the tick damage about 17%, Extended have it remove 1 harmful effect from allies in the area on cast (6s CD) with synergy remaining as is.

Repentance: Make into an AoE Debuff, restores health and stamina on hit on target, so it is for active play --- flat values, so it'd be akin to Major Lifesteal, Major Stamsteal.

Healing Ritual: Reduce the cost if you are going to make it instant-cast. This skill used to be able to put up big numbers when used properly, as it is currently it is a very limited use burst heal. If the cost is going to remain as high as it currently is, return the secondary heal for 1/2 value to effected targets after a 3s delay. Even with that, it still needs a slight cost reduction to be useful.

Practiced Incantation: Allies in the effect explode for 20% of damage received during the 8s Duration of this heal ultimate (like a reverse Purifying Light basically).

Remembrance: Allies receiving damage store the damage and receive it as a shield after the effect ends (again 20% cap).

I know this is a long read, and I left some skills unmentioned, because they are actively working on them, but it would add a bit of sustain, a bit of resilience, an increase in damage to Templar for actually using Templar skills. Obviously these are just base suggestions, not fully comprehensive, or tested --- values and effects would need to be examined and adjusted.

This, absolutely this! Re-post for recognition! Only things I would add is the following:

Solar Barrage - change empower to Major empower. We want to empower a SKILL, not a LA since LA weaving is almost non-existent on a Templar due to channel skills.

Sacred Ground - honestly have never noticed this to work as intended...enemies do not seem slowed inside Cleanse or Rune...Have this looked at.

Cleansing Ritual - Reduce the cost...Reduce the number of effects removed from 5 to 3 or 4 and add a Snare/Immobilize immunity for 5-6 seconds on cast. WE SHOULD NOT BE ON OUR KNEES 24/7 IN OUR HOUSE (even though I, and many others that ACTUALLY play Templar @ZOS_Wrobel are 100% against the house design at this point in the game)

Neoauspex

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

.
Generally, Chalman is the most fought for keep in Vivec. To defend on EP is a nightmare...You are usually defending against a 90+ zerg of DC, with at least 15-30 AD pushing resources (working with DC) while DC rushes front door. AT THE SAME TIME you will have 50+ AD taking Arrius or Farragot to cut off EP at the gates...
EP constantly is fighting on both fronts and our Pop lock is always split between fighting DC and AD. *AD never pushes north in DC territory, not even to dethrone...

All three alliances always think the other two gang up on them, in every campaign on every platform.

Jabbs_Giggity

Neoauspex wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

.
Generally, Chalman is the most fought for keep in Vivec. To defend on EP is a nightmare...You are usually defending against a 90+ zerg of DC, with at least 15-30 AD pushing resources (working with DC) while DC rushes front door. AT THE SAME TIME you will have 50+ AD taking Arrius or Farragot to cut off EP at the gates...
EP constantly is fighting on both fronts and our Pop lock is always split between fighting DC and AD. *AD never pushes north in DC territory, not even to dethrone...

All three alliances always think the other two gang up on them, in every campaign on every platform.

I will not debate you on this response because I do agree. However, on Xbox NA there are specific guilds that are cross-faction DC/AD. They split the server depending on the day. 70% will play on DC Vivec to overpower EP and 30% will play AD on Vivec to run interference against EP.

It wasn't long ago that DC/AD players were pop-locking EP queues to over 500+ by group queuing from the EP Campaign Queues...So while one person hopped on EP and grouped 23 AD or DC toons, the population counter would count towards EP and not DC or AD. Team Green is very real on Xbox NA Vivec. *Fixed the issue but it still happened

This however is for another discussion forum thread....

Neoauspex

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Neoauspex wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

.
Generally, Chalman is the most fought for keep in Vivec. To defend on EP is a nightmare...You are usually defending against a 90+ zerg of DC, with at least 15-30 AD pushing resources (working with DC) while DC rushes front door. AT THE SAME TIME you will have 50+ AD taking Arrius or Farragot to cut off EP at the gates...
EP constantly is fighting on both fronts and our Pop lock is always split between fighting DC and AD. *AD never pushes north in DC territory, not even to dethrone...

All three alliances always think the other two gang up on them, in every campaign on every platform.

I will not debate you on this response because I do agree. However, on Xbox NA there are specific guilds that are cross-faction DC/AD. They split the server depending on the day. 70% will play on DC Vivec to overpower EP and 30% will play AD on Vivec to run interference against EP.

It wasn't long ago that DC/AD players were pop-locking EP queues to over 500+ by group queuing from the EP Campaign Queues...So while one person hopped on EP and grouped 23 AD or DC toons, the population counter would count towards EP and not DC or AD. Team Green is very real on Xbox NA Vivec. *Fixed the issue but it still happened

This however is for another discussion forum thread....

I play Xbox NA Vivec, the only crossovers between AD and DC are when somebody salty gets on yellow to make fun of how *** they are. The two main groups running for AD (at least in primetime), Harley's and Nater's respective guilds, push DC all the time.

What EP does see consistently, I agree with you, is a steady stream of pugs/solos running towards the bridge from Alessia/dying/respawn/repeat. They will go northeast until they meet resistance, and nobody can talk them out of it. This behavior definitely does not benefit AD at all, but it certainly wastes both red/yellow population resources. It is infuriating.

Look at the scores the past 5-10 campaigns though; if there's a team green then it's really stupid on AD's part (not ruling that out) since they keep finishing last. I had this same discussion with DC in the alliance war forum, I promise you they think it's team orange. But the fact that everybody thinks this way kinda makes the setup of Cyro interesting, it's like a triangular prisoner's dilemma. I just want them to fix the map so that there are two towns behind each faction's emp keeps. Sorry class reps for going off topic, we can continue the discussion here Jabs or look me up on xbox same name.

Drdeath20

Seems like most magplars DDs use

(Spammable), purifying light, inner light, blockade, reflective light/vamps bane

Radiant Oppression, (utility), inner light, (defense), blazing spear

Rotations being:

La, blazing spear, LA, ele blockade, LA, purifying light, LA, sun fire, LA spammable rinse and repeat. Its generally a 8-10 second rotation because most our DoTs are are under 10 seconds and the most important 1 (Purifying light) is 6 seconds long. As a templar DD you want to keep excellent Purifying light uptime.

Spammable ranges from sweeps, elemental weapon or force pulse. Sweeps for melee damage and really a coin flip between ele weapons or force pulse. Problem with sweeps is in alot of boss fights your hard stacking (all getting really close together on the boss) and soft stacking ( seperating away from the boss and 1 another out of melee range) also alot of times you want to avoid standing in big AoE damage circles so you want to be ranged. Sweeps often falls off a templars bar in favor of more range. Also another problem with sweeps is the channel. you get less attacks in as time goes on. I generally find it to be a DPS loss and a shame too because its our skill thats suppose to parrallel nightblades strife.

Where i believe a pve dd improvement could be made is with the passives. Starting with Balanced warrior also applying 6% spell damage and physical resistances. Great magplars parse around 40k. 6% of that is a mere 2400. Thats not really game changing. Having some slight help with mitigation is a compensation for having to always be in harms way to use our class spammable. I also believe burning light should have its 25% proc be per target. This is not gonna change single target DPS but it will help slightly boost the quality of the 14 aedric spear AoE DoTs skills/ultimate morphs. Again nothing really game changing.

Utility slot i find people put a variety of skills here. Weather its repentance, rune focus, or ele drain for sustain. accelerate for the damage bump or solar barrage for empower or entropy for major sorcery.

Rune seems to be making everyone fairly happy and i heard that repentance is getting looked at. Really only 1 person needs to slot ele drain for the minor mag steal so it is what it is. Here is a spot where again templars skills fail them. We have a class skill in radiant aura that in most cases is not cost effective and its secondary effect is non existant when it comes to bar swaps. I would again like to see the 10% regen be its own passive. This way it is not lost when it comes to bar swapping. Generally my highest regen stat is 900 so 10% of that is an additional 90 more of that stat. Nothing too crazy. Back to radiant aura i feel that first and foremost its cost either needs to be reduced or justified by giving templars something they desperately need in major sorcery. This would free the templar from chugging potions non stop or casting entropy every 20 seconds or wearing a 2nd rate set in rattlecage. Its not gonna effect single target because templars who wear BiS armor either get their major sorcery from potions or from their friendly DK casting molten armorments. This doesnt steal from people who use ele drain because thats a free skill that fractures and lastly rune is still a superior skill because its easy to have 100% uptime with it.

Now lets talk about the damage utility skills, Accelerate and solar barrage. Acceleration is great. It gives you a great unconditional damage bump in minor force for a decent amount of time and a little mobility aswell as helpful passives. I feel that solar barrage falls short because it cost more and that AoE damage doesnt mesh well with the empower. If your gonna be in AoE range you want to have some healing back so the preferable spammable is sweeps but when using sweeps its harder to time out your light attacks because it is a channel. So your either losing out on AoE damage with the other ranged spammables or losing out on the empowers with sweeps. I feel that developers need to pick a direction with this skill and commit to it.

When it comes to shields some people use harness magicka, others use a heal in rushed ceremony, some people put ritual of retribution there for the group HoT tics. Id like to see healing ritual changed into a magicka vigor. It really wouldnt effect templars much because again ritual of ret already a HoT and BoL is a conditional instant heal. Having a magicka vigor is just having a skill that falls in the middle of those 2. This skill wont make temp healers OP either because healing springs is pretty much the exact same thing and everyone has access to it. This is just another QoL change. Do i want to shield up, vigor up (healing ritual), or heal after.

I also believe that vamps bane Dots tics need to be equal to that of reflective light. Its already known that recasting sunfire too early helps boost DPS soo boosting the the DoT tics of vamps bane to match reflective light will subtley help. Your still gonna have more DPS on multiple targets if you keep good uptime on reflective light but now vamps bane is a competitive alternative for end game users. Choosing between a slightly easier rotation and/or hitting more targets.

I dont see any of these adjustments as being OP or being too impactful in other facets (pvp, pve tank/healer) of the game when we all can admit that templars damage falls short.

I believe other skills and passive also need to be looked at but those skills/passives are more meant for other parts of the game i do not want to make an already long post any longer. Thank you all for your time.

Vajrak wrote: »

Just reposting so it stays where people may read it:

Aedric Spear
Balanced Warrior: 3/6% Damage Dealth, 2/4% Reduced Damage Received
----the numbers may seem low, but will make sense when taken in conjunction with other changes suggested.

Burning Light: Aedric Spear skill proc exclusive, Static Damage with 0.5s CD, 25% chance to proc a secondary DoT for the Static Damage value over 3s; renewed proc just refreshes the duration.

Spear Wall: 8% Mitigation (blocking or not), while blocking, reflects damage at a max value of 20% of Max HP
----a reduced mitigation value than other classes, because it is also returning damage with a conditional

Piercing Spear: 10% Critical Damage, 400 Magic Damage bonus to Aedric Spear skills(does not apply further bonus to Burning Light)
----makes your Aedric Spear skills actually worth using

Radial Sweep/Morphs: Increase PBAoE range by 2m, double the rider proc to 0.5s ticks

Puncturing Strike/Morphs: Primarily fix the hitbox; have both morphs heal the Templar based on Damage done
---it's not unknown to have a Stamina related heal, so there is no real reason not to let Templar actually use their primary damage in either mainstat iteration.

Piercing Javelin/Morphs: Aurora Javelin --- KnockDOWN (not back), remove variable distance damage, apply a short debuff increasing damage target receives by 10% from next attack
Binding Javelin ---KnockDOWN (not back) + 3s hard snare, apply a short debuff chance to miss next attack (15% miss chance for 5s or so)

Focused Charge: Explosive Charge is actually fine as is, maybe could use a slight cost reduction.
Toppling Charge, becomes a Stam Morph, AoE like Explosive, does a Knockdown/Interrupt---literally just make it a stam variant morph of Explosive, without the stun

Spear Shards: As is really; while it would be nice to have a Stam morph of it, there isn't really a place to do so without adding another morph, though it could be possible to keep it as a magicka cost, but add the damage done based on highest stat.

Sun Shield: Radiant Ward is actually functioning well, simply change it to function off of mainstat +hp (so if HP is your main stat, no change, if it isn't, magplar gets a boost to utilize)
Blazing Shield change to a Stam variant, rename to Radiant Vengeance, value based off of Max Stam, physical damage AoE on cast

Dawn's Wrath
Restoring Spirit: Rename to Resilient Spirit, cost reduction all 6/12%, reduce damage received 1/2% as HP drops below 50% (max bonus value at 10% hp)

Illuminate: Minor sorcery to all is fine, could give Major Sorcery to the Templar also, but that can also be addressed elsewhere.

Prism: sits in line for where it should be, once Dawn's skills become more desirable

Enduring Rays: remove the limited list, 2s Duration increase applies to all Dawn's Wrath skills, done.

Eclipse: Total Dark, instead of making this target the enemy, have it apply to the caster. It then returns damage/heals to the Templar based on being attacked by direct damage. Still serves its intended purpose, but removes the problem of it being CC-breakable.

Unstable Core: make into on-target, Stamina morph, explosion after duration ends, applies minor stamina steal to the target. No CC aspect to worry about.

Solar Flare: Dark Flare, have ramp up damage 5% (to a maximum of 25%) for chain casts of the skill, ~10% cost reduction of current form.

Solar Barrage....there are a lot of changes being down with this, keep it with Empower is fine, make the damage scale off of main stat, remove the cast time, reduced damage, but have each subsequent proc increase damage if hitting the same target(s), again up to 25% maximum. Makes it viable for both AoE trash burning, and single target killing due to the Empower effect.

Sun Fire/Morphs: Remove the damn fire effect, just make it magic damage (rename the skill as needed). Vampire's Bane fine as is, Reflective Light increase the range of the other targets, and instead of having it 3 projectiles, have it primary target and then 2 additional targets within that range from point of impact on the primary (say perhaps 7m).

Nova/Morphs: 15% base damage increase, Solar Disturbance also restores resources (mag and stam) to allies in the area, Gravity crush applies a supplemental DoT on the target besides the ground AoE damage effect.

Restoring Light

Master Ritualist: add cc-immunity and/or damage reduction while resurrecting. It's a niche, but an important one when it happens.

Light Weaver: receiving healing from a restoring light ability grants 2 ultimate and 1% of highest stat pool recovered. ONLY applies when actually receiving a heal, not just a tick while at full.

Sacred Ground: the slow effect is fine, add in a small value restoring shield also through the duration of a skill, so that all templar Restoring Light skills that effect a heal/debuff also grant allies a small bit of mitigation, 1-1.2 shield. Not a HUGE amount, but enough to take the edge off of some attacks.

Cleansing Ritual/Morphs: Slight increase to area, Retribution increase the tick damage about 17%, Extended have it remove 1 harmful effect from allies in the area on cast (6s CD) with synergy remaining as is.

Repentance: Make into an AoE Debuff, restores health and stamina on hit on target, so it is for active play --- flat values, so it'd be akin to Major Lifesteal, Major Stamsteal.

Healing Ritual: Reduce the cost if you are going to make it instant-cast. This skill used to be able to put up big numbers when used properly, as it is currently it is a very limited use burst heal. If the cost is going to remain as high as it currently is, return the secondary heal for 1/2 value to effected targets after a 3s delay. Even with that, it still needs a slight cost reduction to be useful.

Practiced Incantation: Allies in the effect explode for 20% of damage received during the 8s Duration of this heal ultimate (like a reverse Purifying Light basically).

Remembrance: Allies receiving damage store the damage and receive it as a shield after the effect ends (again 20% cap).

I know this is a long read, and I left some skills unmentioned, because they are actively working on them, but it would add a bit of sustain, a bit of resilience, an increase in damage to Templar for actually using Templar skills. Obviously these are just base suggestions, not fully comprehensive, or tested --- values and effects would need to be examined and adjusted.

I love it. Temps would be animals

Vajrak

I'm glad for all the love; I've been a Templar main since Beta.

What ZOS keeps missing is that they initially designed Templar as a Heavy Cavalry type play with it's skills....but then didn't give it anything to really come to the rescue with.

There are some combos people don't think about, mostly because of how limited our skill slots are, so by slotting the combos you have to give up something else.

Example: Javelin>Purifying>Explosive>Jabs....is a hell of an opener for PvP, and can be used in PvE if you really want to.

I've tested Javelin as a primary dps ranged skill, and when Dark Flare had it's self-empowering effect, the two were tied for overall maximum output, but Flare won for sustainability. You want a quick and easy fix for Templar? Reduce the cost of Javelin so that it is viable as a ranged spam....fulfills the aedric spear slotting requirements, lets you go melee (jabs/sweeps) or ranged (javelin) --- and blazing spear still viable with both.

I have sent this list out to class reps, and post it here, and in a few pages, if someone doesn't repost it --- I'll do so again.

You want Templar to have an identity? It is the Holy (Magic, not elemental) Warrior of Light, the Crusader, The Cleric of War....not the band-aid tosser boo-boo kisser because mommy's special Bosmer couldn't stand out of red; that's Warden's job (they are better at it than Templar is, actually designed to heal, not just has heals forced into it's self buffs/resists set).

Darkmage1337

Vajrak wrote: »

I'm glad for all the love; I've been a Templar main since Beta.

What ZOS keeps missing is that they initially designed Templar as a Heavy Cavalry type play with it's skills....but then didn't give it anything to really come to the rescue with.

There are some combos people don't think about, mostly because of how limited our skill slots are, so by slotting the combos you have to give up something else.

Example: Javelin>Purifying>Explosive>Jabs....is a hell of an opener for PvP, and can be used in PvE if you really want to.

I've tested Javelin as a primary dps ranged skill, and when Dark Flare had it's self-empowering effect, the two were tied for overall maximum output, but Flare won for sustainability. You want a quick and easy fix for Templar? Reduce the cost of Javelin so that it is viable as a ranged spam....fulfills the aedric spear slotting requirements, lets you go melee (jabs/sweeps) or ranged (javelin) --- and blazing spear still viable with both.

I have sent this list out to class reps, and post it here, and in a few pages, if someone doesn't repost it --- I'll do so again.

You want Templar to have an identity? It is the Holy (Magic, not elemental) Warrior of Light, the Crusader, The Cleric of War....not the band-aid tosser boo-boo kisser because mommy's special Bosmer couldn't stand out of red; that's Warden's job (they are better at it than Templar is, actually designed to heal, not just has heals forced into it's self buffs/resists set).

Magplar:

Open with Entropy (for Major Sorcery and self-heal over time) > Purifying Light (Damage copier/stacker) > Dark Flare (Damage + Major Defile) > Destructive Reach (fire staff for the Knock-back & DOT) > Radiant Oppression (Execute) = Dead target.
Finish the target off with Soul Assault if they're a tankier; and, block-cast and spam Healing Ward and Breath of Life in between your channeled abilities if your target targets you.

Magplar in a nutshell.

Navras

Darkmage1337 wrote: »

Magplar:

Open with Entropy (for Major Sorcery and self-heal over time) > Purifying Light (Damage copier/stacker) > Dark Flare (Damage + Major Defile) > Destructive Reach (fire staff for the Knock-back & DOT) > Radiant Oppression (Execute) = Dead target.
Finish the target off with Soul Assault if they're a tankier; and, block-cast and spam Healing Ward and Breath of Life in between your channeled abilities if your target targets you.

Magplar in a nutshell.

yeah, and they are standing still eating everything without throwing any dodge, stun, cc, knock-back and God only know what else.

but well, we all love to be a bit optimistic sometimes, right?

Narvuntien

Compare the pair

Sun Shield: Surround yourself with a solar rays, granting a damage shield equal to 30% of your Max Health for 6 seconds.
Nearby enemies take 248 Magic Damage when the shield is activated, and each enemy hit increases the shield's strength by 4%

4320 Magicka

Obsidian Shield: Call the earth to your defense, granting a damage shield for you and nearby allies that absorbs 877 damage. You also gain Major Mending, increasing your healing done 25% for 2.5 seconds

4050 Magicka

Before you say sun shield scales with hp so it is larger than Obsidian Shield Obsidian shield also scales with hp but I can't seem to find its %

Obsidian not only shields your allies scaling with your hp it provides you with a powerful healing buff and I didn't even factor in helping hands to this. Sun Shield requires serious buffs to get it to where it needs to be as the templar tank core skill.

Skayaq

Narvuntien wrote: »

Compare the pair

Sun Shield: Surround yourself with a solar rays, granting a damage shield equal to 30% of your Max Health for 6 seconds.
Nearby enemies take 248 Magic Damage when the shield is activated, and each enemy hit increases the shield's strength by 4%

4320 Magicka

Obsidian Shield: Call the earth to your defense, granting a damage shield for you and nearby allies that absorbs 877 damage. You also gain Major Mending, increasing your healing done 25% for 2.5 seconds

4050 Magicka

Before you say sun shield scales with hp so it is larger than Obsidian Shield Obsidian shield also scales with hp but I can't seem to find its %

Obsidian not only shields your allies scaling with your hp it provides you with a powerful healing buff and I didn't even factor in helping hands to this. Sun Shield requires serious buffs to get it to where it needs to be as the templar tank core skill.

Obsidian Shield base is 10%, Igneous Shield is 30% for self

casparian

Darkmage1337 wrote: »

Vajrak wrote: »

I'm glad for all the love; I've been a Templar main since Beta.

What ZOS keeps missing is that they initially designed Templar as a Heavy Cavalry type play with it's skills....but then didn't give it anything to really come to the rescue with.

There are some combos people don't think about, mostly because of how limited our skill slots are, so by slotting the combos you have to give up something else.

Example: Javelin>Purifying>Explosive>Jabs....is a hell of an opener for PvP, and can be used in PvE if you really want to.

I've tested Javelin as a primary dps ranged skill, and when Dark Flare had it's self-empowering effect, the two were tied for overall maximum output, but Flare won for sustainability. You want a quick and easy fix for Templar? Reduce the cost of Javelin so that it is viable as a ranged spam....fulfills the aedric spear slotting requirements, lets you go melee (jabs/sweeps) or ranged (javelin) --- and blazing spear still viable with both.

I have sent this list out to class reps, and post it here, and in a few pages, if someone doesn't repost it --- I'll do so again.

You want Templar to have an identity? It is the Holy (Magic, not elemental) Warrior of Light, the Crusader, The Cleric of War....not the band-aid tosser boo-boo kisser because mommy's special Bosmer couldn't stand out of red; that's Warden's job (they are better at it than Templar is, actually designed to heal, not just has heals forced into it's self buffs/resists set).

Magplar:

Open with Entropy (for Major Sorcery and self-heal over time) > Purifying Light (Damage copier/stacker) > Dark Flare (Damage + Major Defile) > Destructive Reach (fire staff for the Knock-back & DOT) > Radiant Oppression (Execute) = Dead target.
Finish the target off with Soul Assault if they're a tankier; and, block-cast and spam Healing Ward and Breath of Life in between your channeled abilities if your target targets you.

Magplar in a nutshell.

That only works against potatoes our while your group outnumbers your opponent, though. I think everyone agrees magplar is fine vs. potatoes or outnumbered enemies. Dark Flare builds aren't exactly contenders for top open world solo/small-scale spec.

technohic

Glad to see some PVE focused players have posted. Seems early on it was mostly people who primarily PVP. Could use more PVEers that do things other than heal

Vajrak

Darkmage1337 wrote: »

Vajrak wrote: »

I'm glad for all the love; I've been a Templar main since Beta.

What ZOS keeps missing is that they initially designed Templar as a Heavy Cavalry type play with it's skills....but then didn't give it anything to really come to the rescue with.

There are some combos people don't think about, mostly because of how limited our skill slots are, so by slotting the combos you have to give up something else.

Example: Javelin>Purifying>Explosive>Jabs....is a hell of an opener for PvP, and can be used in PvE if you really want to.

I've tested Javelin as a primary dps ranged skill, and when Dark Flare had it's self-empowering effect, the two were tied for overall maximum output, but Flare won for sustainability. You want a quick and easy fix for Templar? Reduce the cost of Javelin so that it is viable as a ranged spam....fulfills the aedric spear slotting requirements, lets you go melee (jabs/sweeps) or ranged (javelin) --- and blazing spear still viable with both.

I have sent this list out to class reps, and post it here, and in a few pages, if someone doesn't repost it --- I'll do so again.

You want Templar to have an identity? It is the Holy (Magic, not elemental) Warrior of Light, the Crusader, The Cleric of War....not the band-aid tosser boo-boo kisser because mommy's special Bosmer couldn't stand out of red; that's Warden's job (they are better at it than Templar is, actually designed to heal, not just has heals forced into it's self buffs/resists set).

Magplar:

Open with Entropy (for Major Sorcery and self-heal over time) > Purifying Light (Damage copier/stacker) > Dark Flare (Damage + Major Defile) > Destructive Reach (fire staff for the Knock-back & DOT) > Radiant Oppression (Execute) = Dead target.
Finish the target off with Soul Assault if they're a tankier; and, block-cast and spam Healing Ward and Breath of Life in between your channeled abilities if your target targets you.

Magplar in a nutshell.

What I posted was for Magplar:

Aurora Javelin = initial burst and gains some with distance>Purifying Light (as you said, damage copy/stack)>Explosive Charge (it's AoE, even if they dodge the initial, they still take damage)>Sweeps(learn to target, ping can eat it but it's not too terrible) --- that is just as an opener, and if you had a little warning you can proxy det yourself before the initial so you land and BOOM at the same time.

Vajrak

technohic wrote: »

Glad to see some PVE focused players have posted. Seems early on it was mostly people who primarily PVP. Could use more PVEers that do things other than heal

I PvE primarily now, PvP as a moonlight sometimes as I got tired/bored of it honestly. Same 3 tactics most the time if not solo roaming.

Sophocles1

I started one cuz I like the idea of establishing a house. I find it isn’t working so well that way. More housing!

Jabbs_Giggity

Initial thoughts on new changes to Templar for the DLC. Disclaimer: PVP perspective and all negative.
1. Rune Focus - additional damage reduction while standing in rune is NOT noticed. We are constantly being forced down by roots, snares, cc's and immobilizes that it doesn't matter how much reduction you have.
**we need a CC/Root immunity while in our house, if the house design is going to remain part of the templar. You can't defend or go offensive if you can't use your skills...
2. Jesus Beam - Increase in damage isnoticeable, but channel still leave you open to huge amounts of damage taken
3. Passives still suck
4. Burst damage still sucks
5. This game is becoming a joke to play.

I understand how incredibly negative this statement is, but the frustration I feel with templars is more than likely shared with the ESO community and ZOS just laughs it off.

Narvuntien

Actually CC/Snare immunity inside the house seems really sweet on restoring focus morph removing the vitality + protection.. because Templar tanks commonly use channeled focus instead because free resources/lower cost is more important than being a little tankier.

The additional damage reduction slammed my templar tank into the resistances cap and now I can't use certain sets like Torag's or lord warden without overcapping now.

I am fine with Templars burst damage sucking but they need CC to make that low burst playstyle to work. I'd keep terrible burst if they got the *** stun back.

I think if they wanted them to stop being the healer class then they should just go revisit the passives, having passives that only effect some of their skills in that skill line is really terrible particularly for stamplar, stam classes really rely on those passive for their power. I think i'd move the vitality I took from focus onto passives for example.... what if they got minor protection while channeling? (which will be amusing with Meditate) The passives should be boosting the templar playstyle not the templar skills.

danno8

Darkmage1337 wrote: »

Vajrak wrote: »

I'm glad for all the love; I've been a Templar main since Beta.

What ZOS keeps missing is that they initially designed Templar as a Heavy Cavalry type play with it's skills....but then didn't give it anything to really come to the rescue with.

There are some combos people don't think about, mostly because of how limited our skill slots are, so by slotting the combos you have to give up something else.

Example: Javelin>Purifying>Explosive>Jabs....is a hell of an opener for PvP, and can be used in PvE if you really want to.

I've tested Javelin as a primary dps ranged skill, and when Dark Flare had it's self-empowering effect, the two were tied for overall maximum output, but Flare won for sustainability. You want a quick and easy fix for Templar? Reduce the cost of Javelin so that it is viable as a ranged spam....fulfills the aedric spear slotting requirements, lets you go melee (jabs/sweeps) or ranged (javelin) --- and blazing spear still viable with both.

I have sent this list out to class reps, and post it here, and in a few pages, if someone doesn't repost it --- I'll do so again.

You want Templar to have an identity? It is the Holy (Magic, not elemental) Warrior of Light, the Crusader, The Cleric of War....not the band-aid tosser boo-boo kisser because mommy's special Bosmer couldn't stand out of red; that's Warden's job (they are better at it than Templar is, actually designed to heal, not just has heals forced into it's self buffs/resists set).

Magplar:

Open with Entropy (for Major Sorcery and self-heal over time) > Purifying Light (Damage copier/stacker) > Dark Flare (Damage + Major Defile) > Destructive Reach (fire staff for the Knock-back & DOT) > Radiant Oppression (Execute) = Dead target.
Finish the target off with Soul Assault if they're a tankier; and, block-cast and spam Healing Ward and Breath of Life in between your channeled abilities if your target targets you.

Magplar in a nutshell.

Better yet, use a magicka/spell power tri potion, open with DF then Purifying ( while DF is in the air). If you open with Purifying, the enemy will dodge, block or cloak and you will miss your DF. If you open with Entropy its the same thing.

SunRaider

Good luck hiting anything with a dark flare...

Drdeath20

Since trying the templars buffs in pve.

Even though Solar barrage is instant and a buff when testing om the dummy, it still rarely lands on my bar over accelerate.

Radiant destruction was done right. I got some crit tics in the 50's with radiant oppression.

Even though this version of rune is technically a net loss of magicka i find i wind up having better up time with it bcz of the freedom. That increased resistances is noticeable too.

Im still having a hard time working sweeps onto my bar. In the old dungeons its no biggie but the vet dlc dungeons really require a ranged spammable for alot of the bosses and even harder trash mobs.

I find my character misses out on the burning light passive. I only use 1 aedric spear ability (shards). Id really love to see this passive changed to when a aedric spear ability is slotted and bcz im greedy id like to see it proc per target.

Alot of the other passives are completely unuseable for my healplar or my magplar damage dealer too. Templars get passively blown away before they ever start a dungeon.

tplink3r1

Nova just costs too much for what we get in PVP.
This would be a good change in my opinion:
Nova: Call down a fragment of the sun to the target area, dealing X Magic Damage each 1 second for 8 enemies in the area, *pushing them to the center of the ability* and afflicting Major Maim, reducing their damage done by 30%.
Templars do lack CC and also a good ultimate, so why not change this?

Checkmath

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Since trying the templars buffs in pve.

Even though Solar barrage is instant and a buff when testing om the dummy, it still rarely lands on my bar over accelerate.

Radiant destruction was done right. I got some crit tics in the 50's with radiant oppression.

Even though this version of rune is technically a net loss of magicka i find i wind up having better up time with it bcz of the freedom. That increased resistances is noticeable too.

Im still having a hard time working sweeps onto my bar. In the old dungeons its no biggie but the vet dlc dungeons really require a ranged spammable for alot of the bosses and even harder trash mobs.

I find my character misses out on the burning light passive. I only use 1 aedric spear ability (shards). Id really love to see this passive changed to when a aedric spear ability is slotted and bcz im greedy id like to see it proc per target.

Alot of the other passives are completely unuseable for my healplar or my magplar damage dealer too. Templars get passively blown away before they ever start a dungeon.

i recently already heard someone saying, that burning light should proc from all damage. Your suggestions would go into the same direction, just with the rule of having an ability slotted. At the moment magicka characters using staves already have that problem with destruction staff abilities. Additionally the free damage a templar would get from this would be too much. Having around 6-8 damage sources per second (all dots, light attacks and enchants) would make this passive proc in a manner, which would be too strong. This passive has a cooldown of 0.5 seconds and has a 25% proc chance. With 6-8 damage sources per second (3-4 every half a second) would make this passive too strong and would give templars more free damage than every other class. It probably would just add around 7-10k dps (stamplars can already reach 5k dps with blazing spear and jabs) to the templars dps parses, which would be just wrong.

Drdeath20

Checkmath wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Since trying the templars buffs in pve.

Even though Solar barrage is instant and a buff when testing om the dummy, it still rarely lands on my bar over accelerate.

Radiant destruction was done right. I got some crit tics in the 50's with radiant oppression.

Even though this version of rune is technically a net loss of magicka i find i wind up having better up time with it bcz of the freedom. That increased resistances is noticeable too.

Im still having a hard time working sweeps onto my bar. In the old dungeons its no biggie but the vet dlc dungeons really require a ranged spammable for alot of the bosses and even harder trash mobs.

I find my character misses out on the burning light passive. I only use 1 aedric spear ability (shards). Id really love to see this passive changed to when a aedric spear ability is slotted and bcz im greedy id like to see it proc per target.

Alot of the other passives are completely unuseable for my healplar or my magplar damage dealer too. Templars get passively blown away before they ever start a dungeon.

i recently already heard someone saying, that burning light should proc from all damage. Your suggestions would go into the same direction, just with the rule of having an ability slotted. At the moment magicka characters using staves already have that problem with destruction staff abilities. Additionally the free damage a templar would get from this would be too much. Having around 6-8 damage sources per second (all dots, light attacks and enchants) would make this passive proc in a manner, which would be too strong. This passive has a cooldown of 0.5 seconds and has a 25% proc chance. With 6-8 damage sources per second (3-4 every half a second) would make this passive too strong and would give templars more free damage than every other class. It probably would just add around 7-10k dps (stamplars can already reach 5k dps with blazing spear and jabs) to the templars dps parses, which would be just wrong.

Yeah that would be crazy. Good point

Narvuntien

Spear Shards should immobilize so Templars can has CC for tanking and PVP.

Checkmath

Narvuntien wrote: »

Spear Shards should immobilize so Templars can has CC for tanking and PVP.

the devs are aware and looking into the topic of missing crowd control on templars. I do not know how they will solve that specific problem, but I do not think it will be added the spear shards again, since this skill would provide too much utility then with resources for enemies, aoe damage (plus dot) and burning light chance, so adding roots to it....not sure how this will play out.

dodgehopper_ESO

Solinur wrote: »

I think the changes to weapon enchants are a relative nerf to magicka templars (most other magicka classes benefit more). One reason is the slower attack speed of templars (less light attacks) the other that we benefit less from them. (DK - burning, Sorc - lightning damage).

I still would like to see some improvements for Templar Tanks. Rune Focus is better now, but all the other defense oriented skills still need some love.
I generally think that if a class has a similar skill to a weapon or armor ability, it should be better or give some different utility. In that sense, something should be done to sun shield, nova and radial sweep. Additionally some sort of cc thats also useful in melee would be nice. Templars have a lot of slows, but I think there are too many convienient methods to counter this?

What is worse is slows don't stack and the swift trait helps to nullify weak slows to begin with. (I'm not against swift, but they should make slow better if that's the cc to be used).

dodgehopper_ESO

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Initial thoughts on new changes to Templar for the DLC. Disclaimer: PVP perspective and all negative.
1. Rune Focus - additional damage reduction while standing in rune is NOT noticed. We are constantly being forced down by roots, snares, cc's and immobilizes that it doesn't matter how much reduction you have.
**we need a CC/Root immunity while in our house, if the house design is going to remain part of the templar. You can't defend or go offensive if you can't use your skills...
2. Jesus Beam - Increase in damage isnoticeable, but channel still leave you open to huge amounts of damage taken
3. Passives still suck
4. Burst damage still sucks
5. This game is becoming a joke to play.

I understand how incredibly negative this statement is, but the frustration I feel with templars is more than likely shared with the ESO community and ZOS just laughs it off.

After four years of feedback and generally stating the same issues over and over I think we are a little entitled to frustration and anger. Much of what @checkmath posted are items I've been complaining about for approximately 3 years if not more. These are known problems. Well established problems with the class. Templar is clearly an afterthought of the game design. It was an afterthought at release because it had OP regeneration in Beta. They gutted that regeneration and Templar has never seen the light of day since. I will continue to say this til the cows come home: Templar is a Golden Nightblade without cloak, without mitigation, and without mobility. I do think we need to remain reasonable people but it truly amazes me that the development team doesn't seem to understand the frustration. There needs to be quid pro quo for Templar clunkiness if clunk is what we're going to get.

On a side note: To keep productive sometimes its good to stop playing Templar and play something else if you're getting too frustrated.

Narvuntien

Checkmath wrote: »

Narvuntien wrote: »

Spear Shards should immobilize so Templars can has CC for tanking and PVP.

The devs are aware and looking into the topic of missing crowd control on templars. I do not know how they will solve that specific problem, but I do not think it will be added the spear shards again, since this skill would provide too much utility then with resources for enemies, aoe damage (plus dot) and burning light chance, so adding roots to it....not sure how this will play out.

Its very frustrating that I can't leash and then root targets in a way that is so easy for dragonknights. So I silver leash in the ranged trash and then just turn around and run away and I can't do anything about it. Time stop (and volcanic rune) stun is completely useless for this since the trash has CC immunity after getting leashed. As such I need a root specifically. Now also need to have an aedric spear on my bar for the blocking advantage and spear shards used to have a stun and has an AoE which makes it an excellent skill to have this necessary root.