[Class Rep] Templar Feedback Thread

tunepunk

I really enjoy my magplar. The only thing I could wish for is for jabs/sweeps to have slightly reduced area damage, but more single target damage. There's already plenty of area skills in the arsenal.

casparian

@Checkmath one thing I’m pretty concerned about that I haven’t seen anyone mention is the nerf to melee weapon attack range. Next patch, melee light and heavy attacks are going to have half the range of Jabs/Sweeps. I’m afraid this is (a) going to be a big nerf (since it means I can no longer apply damage to, say, a nightblade while staying out of Incap/Surprise Attack range without sacrificing all of my weave damage), and (b) going to make templar feel pretty clunky, since Jabs/Sweeps will now effectively be neither a ranged attack nor a melee attack (if our index for melee attacks is melee light attack weave range).

I don’t know what to do about this, but I’m fairly certain it’s going to be a big nerf.

DERP

Checkmath

casparian wrote: »

@Checkmath one thing I’m pretty concerned about that I haven’t seen anyone mention is the nerf to melee weapon attack range. Next patch, melee light and heavy attacks are going to have half the range of Jabs/Sweeps. I’m afraid this is (a) going to be a big nerf (since it means I can no longer apply damage to, say, a nightblade while staying out of Incap/Surprise Attack range without sacrificing all of my weave damage), and (b) going to make templar feel pretty clunky, since Jabs/Sweeps will now effectively be neither a ranged attack nor a melee attack (if our index for melee attacks is melee light attack weave range).

I don’t know what to do about this, but I’m fairly certain it’s going to be a big nerf.

@casparian
melee weapon attacks match now the range of some weapon skills like dizzying swing or flurry, which is 7 meters. meanwhile some of the weapon skills like rending slashes or reverse slice and also all sword and shield skills have only a range of 5 meters. also incap has a range of 5 meters (also suprise attack and assasins blade), meanwhile jabs has 8 meters range. so you should still be able to heavy attack enemies, when they are not yet in range for their skills.

znrk

jesus beam is getting addressed, rune focus is getting changed, both of these changes I will test live before stating an opinion, especially given that channeled focus was big part of my sustain

however, one thing that is still a big pain point for me is unreliability of puncturing sweeps in pvp - the damage/range/heal part of the skill is good enough ASSUMING it locks onto the target, which is very often not the case due to strafing/lag/whatever random stuff happening

casparian

Checkmath wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

@Checkmath one thing I’m pretty concerned about that I haven’t seen anyone mention is the nerf to melee weapon attack range. Next patch, melee light and heavy attacks are going to have half the range of Jabs/Sweeps. I’m afraid this is (a) going to be a big nerf (since it means I can no longer apply damage to, say, a nightblade while staying out of Incap/Surprise Attack range without sacrificing all of my weave damage), and (b) going to make templar feel pretty clunky, since Jabs/Sweeps will now effectively be neither a ranged attack nor a melee attack (if our index for melee attacks is melee light attack weave range).

I don’t know what to do about this, but I’m fairly certain it’s going to be a big nerf.

@casparian
melee weapon attacks match now the range of some weapon skills like dizzying swing or flurry, which is 7 meters. meanwhile some of the weapon skills like rending slashes or reverse slice and also all sword and shield skills have only a range of 5 meters. also incap has a range of 5 meters (also suprise attack and assasins blade), meanwhile jabs has 8 meters range. so you should still be able to heavy attack enemies, when they are not yet in range for their skills.

I was just wrong, my mistake! For some reason ever since the first patch notes I've been remembering the change as a decrease to 4 meters. This is just fine.

dodgehopper_ESO

How is it you can ambush with impunity but you can't Toppling charge without getting knockbacked mid charge EVERY time? Fix it ffs ZoS. This is what is wrong with Templar abilities. Literally every analogous version of what we have is better, which is why so much of us deep six our class ultimates for ultimates that actually work.

The healing ultimate is infuriating. It is HORRIBLE. The Aedric spear ultimate is one of the worst ultimates in the game, neither defensive or damaging it is a steaming pile of garbage. Nova Tickles enemies unless someone synergizes, and even then its pretty weak and easily avoided. I dissuade new players from playing Templar. I actively dissuade them. They should go play Warden or DK. They'll be much happier. The high scoring Templars in the game in my view are the best players in the game, period, because its like they're beating Jesse Owens in a race with sandbags tied around their head.

In Pvp we have no mobility and no cc, the two most important elements of combat in pvp. Sure Templar can have burst but what Stamina build can't? Forget dodge rolling. Even with plenty stars in it, well fitted, and bone pirate/camoran you still don't have sufficient stamina. CC is the death knell of Templar. They cc you for days and you just stand there dying. Templar is the worst class in the game bar none. I find I'm comfortable playing my Magplar, but when I go stamina I feel like I'm a squishy Nightblade with no cool mitigation skills like a Nightblade.

anadandy

I made a concerted effort to play my Templar with actual Templar abilities last week. I won't mention the stuff that's already being addressed but I can absolutely concur with the dreadful reliability of jabs. It was really funny too - watching the ESO Live of Devs vs whoever in BGS - and even a Dev had that classic Jabs Whiff.

Mobility - and the Templar curse of not being able to mount your horse for several seconds after combat end or Arkay forbid you heal/buff someone.

And pretty much everything @Darkmage1337 said. Especially Backlash not aggoing. Elemental drain does't aggro either.

maxjapank

Checkmath wrote: »

Guys is this all feedback you got? Everything covered with the last meeting notes? I hardly can believe that.
Anyway once again, give me your feedback, just maybe for a while ignore jesus beam (gets buffed), rune focus (gets somehow buffed), solar barrage (buff and nerf), magplar dps capablities (comes with update 20) and stamplar sustain/support (also comes with update 20). I really want to hear about every other concern/problem you have with the class.

There is one thing that has been bugging me, and that's the Spear Wall passive - increase the amount of dmg you can block against melee attacks by 15%. If you ask most Magplars, I think their defensive bar is pretty much set with Rushed Ceremony, Cleansing Ritual, and Channeled Focus. The other two slots will likely be Mist, Entropy, Sun Fire, etc. But what they won't be is a skill from the Aedric Spear line. So we are often missing out on that passive because the defensive bar is where we are more likely to block.

There was a time when Templars would slot Spear Shards or Sun Shield, thus benefiting from that passive. But with the stun removal from Spear Shards, that skill has lost its luster. And Sun Shield isn't really potent being tied to health.

It just feels strange to me that we have a "block passive" that's pretty much tied to an offensive spell tree. If you moved that passive to the Restoring Light tree, I think just about every Templar would benefit from the passive. Just my thoughts.

Welcome for anyone else to jump in with their thoughts, too

dodgehopper_ESO

maxjapank wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

Guys is this all feedback you got? Everything covered with the last meeting notes? I hardly can believe that.
Anyway once again, give me your feedback, just maybe for a while ignore jesus beam (gets buffed), rune focus (gets somehow buffed), solar barrage (buff and nerf), magplar dps capablities (comes with update 20) and stamplar sustain/support (also comes with update 20). I really want to hear about every other concern/problem you have with the class.

There is one thing that has been bugging me, and that's the Spear Wall passive - increase the amount of dmg you can block against melee attacks by 15%. If you ask most Magplars, I think their defensive bar is pretty much set with Rushed Ceremony, Cleansing Ritual, and Channeled Focus. The other two slots will likely be Mist, Entropy, Sun Fire, etc. But what they won't be is a skill from the Aedric Spear line. So we are often missing out on that passive because the defensive bar is where we are more likely to block.

There was a time when Templars would slot Spear Shards or Sun Shield, thus benefiting from that passive. But with the stun removal from Spear Shards, that skill has lost its luster. And Sun Shield isn't really potent being tied to health.

It just feels strange to me that we have a "block passive" that's pretty much tied to an offensive spell tree. If you moved that passive to the Restoring Light tree, I think just about every Templar would benefit from the passive. Just my thoughts.

Welcome for anyone else to jump in with their thoughts, too

The problem with Sun Shield is -not- related to it being based on Health. In my view all shields should be based on health. The block passive should be a straight up passive, but like most Templar passives its horseshit garbage and I'm doing my very best to speak more vehemently nasty about it. After 4 years I think I have a reason to be angry. Its a seething level of anger that has built for years. Get your *** together ZOS and fix this piece of *** class.

By the way Aedric spear is more the Tank Tree. Because of this the passive makes sense they just need to get their head out of their backside and fix the passives so they're useful, and maybe make the skills functional too.

maxjapank

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

Guys is this all feedback you got? Everything covered with the last meeting notes? I hardly can believe that.
Anyway once again, give me your feedback, just maybe for a while ignore jesus beam (gets buffed), rune focus (gets somehow buffed), solar barrage (buff and nerf), magplar dps capablities (comes with update 20) and stamplar sustain/support (also comes with update 20). I really want to hear about every other concern/problem you have with the class.

There is one thing that has been bugging me, and that's the Spear Wall passive - increase the amount of dmg you can block against melee attacks by 15%. If you ask most Magplars, I think their defensive bar is pretty much set with Rushed Ceremony, Cleansing Ritual, and Channeled Focus. The other two slots will likely be Mist, Entropy, Sun Fire, etc. But what they won't be is a skill from the Aedric Spear line. So we are often missing out on that passive because the defensive bar is where we are more likely to block.

There was a time when Templars would slot Spear Shards or Sun Shield, thus benefiting from that passive. But with the stun removal from Spear Shards, that skill has lost its luster. And Sun Shield isn't really potent being tied to health.

It just feels strange to me that we have a "block passive" that's pretty much tied to an offensive spell tree. If you moved that passive to the Restoring Light tree, I think just about every Templar would benefit from the passive. Just my thoughts.

Welcome for anyone else to jump in with their thoughts, too

The problem with Sun Shield is -not- related to it being based on Health. In my view all shields should be based on health. The block passive should be a straight up passive, but like most Templar passives its horseshit garbage and I'm doing my very best to speak more vehemently nasty about it. After 4 years I think I have a reason to be angry. Its a seething level of anger that has built for years. Get your *** together ZOS and fix this piece of *** class.

By the way Aedric spear is more the Tank Tree. Because of this the passive makes sense they just need to get their head out of their backside and fix the passives so they're useful, and maybe make the skills functional too.

But it’s not really a tank tree apart from Sun Shield and one Ulti morph, even if tank tree is what they had in mind at the beginning.

dodgehopper_ESO

maxjapank wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

Guys is this all feedback you got? Everything covered with the last meeting notes? I hardly can believe that.
Anyway once again, give me your feedback, just maybe for a while ignore jesus beam (gets buffed), rune focus (gets somehow buffed), solar barrage (buff and nerf), magplar dps capablities (comes with update 20) and stamplar sustain/support (also comes with update 20). I really want to hear about every other concern/problem you have with the class.

There is one thing that has been bugging me, and that's the Spear Wall passive - increase the amount of dmg you can block against melee attacks by 15%. If you ask most Magplars, I think their defensive bar is pretty much set with Rushed Ceremony, Cleansing Ritual, and Channeled Focus. The other two slots will likely be Mist, Entropy, Sun Fire, etc. But what they won't be is a skill from the Aedric Spear line. So we are often missing out on that passive because the defensive bar is where we are more likely to block.

There was a time when Templars would slot Spear Shards or Sun Shield, thus benefiting from that passive. But with the stun removal from Spear Shards, that skill has lost its luster. And Sun Shield isn't really potent being tied to health.

It just feels strange to me that we have a "block passive" that's pretty much tied to an offensive spell tree. If you moved that passive to the Restoring Light tree, I think just about every Templar would benefit from the passive. Just my thoughts.

Welcome for anyone else to jump in with their thoughts, too

The problem with Sun Shield is -not- related to it being based on Health. In my view all shields should be based on health. The block passive should be a straight up passive, but like most Templar passives its horseshit garbage and I'm doing my very best to speak more vehemently nasty about it. After 4 years I think I have a reason to be angry. Its a seething level of anger that has built for years. Get your *** together ZOS and fix this piece of *** class.

By the way Aedric spear is more the Tank Tree. Because of this the passive makes sense they just need to get their head out of their backside and fix the passives so they're useful, and maybe make the skills functional too.

But it’s not really a tank tree apart from Sun Shield and one Ulti morph, even if tank tree is what they had in mind at the beginning.

Which tells me they are doing something wrong...

Consider a moment that Blazing/Lumi spears was once a cc on that bar. It was part of the tanker toolkit. Where did it go?

Sun Shield (more like squishy shield)

Javelin (our only cc)

Jabs (Melee range damage + once a crappy cc)

Damage REsist Ulti.

Need I go on? They just need to go back to the drawing board and fix our class man. Its that simple.

Solariken

Thanks for keeping it going @Checkmath. It's hard for me to state vague pain points without offering an appropriate suggestion. So instead I'll just give a taste of what the next patch notes would look like if I were the guy making the decisions and hopefully the thought behind these are obvious:

Sun Shield
All morphs now scale on max magicka or max heatlh, whichever is greater. Damage radius increased from 5 meters to 6 meters.

Radiant Ward
Current morph effects moved into the base morph. This morph's added effect now grants Major Evasion ONLY while the shield is active.

Piercing Spear (passive)
Now also increases damage done by 10% to enemies with a damage shield while an Aedric Spear ability is slotted.

Spear Wall (passive)
No longer requires an Aedric Spear skill to be slotted (always active)

Eclipse (all morphs)
Reduced the proc damage (and healing) by 50% for all morphs but this skill no longer interacts with CC immunity, meaning that it stays active for its entire duration. Slightly toned down the visual effects to compensate.

Backlash (all morphs)
Increased the caster’s stored damage to 33% and reduced the stored value from all non-caster damage sources to 10%.

Radiant Destruction (all morphs)
Changed the cost of this ability to channel with the damage. The current cost is divided over the current number of damage ticks.

Ritual of Retribution
No longer purges any generic debuffs, but now provides complete root/snare immunity while standing in the circle and for 2 seconds after leaving. Damage and healing components now occur every 1 second (same values as live but twice as often). [Whose house? MY HOUSE!!1]

turlisley

Checkmath wrote: »

Guys is this all feedback you got? Everything covered with the last meeting notes? I hardly can believe that.
Anyway once again, give me your feedback, just maybe for a while ignore jesus beam (gets buffed), rune focus (gets somehow buffed), solar barrage (buff and nerf), magplar dps capablities (comes with update 20) and stamplar sustain/support (also comes with update 20). I really want to hear about every other concern/problem you have with the class.

Maybe read and take note of the long, gigantic post above this one? There was quite a lot of stuff discussed there that didn't include Jesus Beam or Rune Focus..

JinMori

iv'e thought about it, but what about a stamplar execute? stamplar has a lack of skills anyway, so much so that this is the only class where i have basically 3 free slots, where i can put stuff to provide buffs, instead of abilityes to actually use

Minno

It's hard to give more feedback if we haven't had a chance to digest the PTS changes in a LIVE setting.

Here are still my 2 pain points:
- sustain, outside of sustain sets is "eh"
- defense, outside of defense sets is "eh"

I usually have to find a set to handle both of these at once, whereas a NB can afford to select or or the other.

maxjapank

Minno wrote: »

It's hard to give more feedback if we haven't had a chance to digest the PTS changes in a LIVE setting.

Here are still my 2 pain points:
- sustain, outside of sustain sets is "eh"
- defense, outside of defense sets is "eh"

I usually have to find a set to handle both of these at once, whereas a NB can afford to select or or the other.

I’d have to second this. I wear Wiz, Lich, and Pirate. I used to wear Kag or Spinners instead of Lich, but felt when I almost had the enemy dead, so was my Magicka. Lich was the biggest help in getting kills cause when it procs I can just keep attacking. And that little bit has always been enough.

technohic

JinMori wrote: »

iv'e thought about it, but what about a stamplar execute? stamplar has a lack of skills anyway, so much so that this is the only class where i have basically 3 free slots, where i can put stuff to provide buffs, instead of abilityes to actually use

Really not needed. All but 1 stam weapon has an execute. And TBH; I’d be a bit nervous after they took an OP defensive ability to give us a magicka execute, and eventually added to us not really having a defensive staple at all

CyrusArya

Solariken wrote: »

Thanks for keeping it going @Checkmath. It's hard for me to state vague pain points without offering an appropriate suggestion. So instead I'll just give a taste of what the next patch notes would look like if I were the guy making the decisions and hopefully the thought behind these are obvious:

Sun Shield
All morphs now scale on max magicka or max heatlh, whichever is greater. Damage radius increased from 5 meters to 6 meters.

Radiant Ward
Current morph effects moved into the base morph. This morph's added effect now grants Major Evasion ONLY while the shield is active.

Piercing Spear (passive)
Now also increases damage done by 10% to enemies with a damage shield while an Aedric Spear ability is slotted.

Spear Wall (passive)
No longer requires an Aedric Spear skill to be slotted (always active)

Eclipse (all morphs)
Reduced the proc damage (and healing) by 50% for all morphs but this skill no longer interacts with CC immunity, meaning that it stays active for its entire duration. Slightly toned down the visual effects to compensate.

Backlash (all morphs)
Increased the caster’s stored damage to 33% and reduced the stored value from all non-caster damage sources to 10%.

Radiant Destruction (all morphs)
Changed the cost of this ability to channel with the damage. The current cost is divided over the current number of damage ticks.

Ritual of Retribution
No longer purges any generic debuffs, but now provides complete root/snare immunity while standing in the circle and for 2 seconds after leaving. Damage and healing components now occur every 1 second (same values as live but twice as often). [Whose house? MY HOUSE!!1]

So if you were in charge, Templar would be disgustingly overpowered. Got it lol.

Solariken

CyrusArya wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

Thanks for keeping it going @Checkmath. It's hard for me to state vague pain points without offering an appropriate suggestion. So instead I'll just give a taste of what the next patch notes would look like if I were the guy making the decisions and hopefully the thought behind these are obvious:

Sun Shield
All morphs now scale on max magicka or max heatlh, whichever is greater. Damage radius increased from 5 meters to 6 meters.

Radiant Ward
Current morph effects moved into the base morph. This morph's added effect now grants Major Evasion ONLY while the shield is active.

Piercing Spear (passive)
Now also increases damage done by 10% to enemies with a damage shield while an Aedric Spear ability is slotted.

Spear Wall (passive)
No longer requires an Aedric Spear skill to be slotted (always active)

Eclipse (all morphs)
Reduced the proc damage (and healing) by 50% for all morphs but this skill no longer interacts with CC immunity, meaning that it stays active for its entire duration. Slightly toned down the visual effects to compensate.

Backlash (all morphs)
Increased the caster’s stored damage to 33% and reduced the stored value from all non-caster damage sources to 10%.

Radiant Destruction (all morphs)
Changed the cost of this ability to channel with the damage. The current cost is divided over the current number of damage ticks.

Ritual of Retribution
No longer purges any generic debuffs, but now provides complete root/snare immunity while standing in the circle and for 2 seconds after leaving. Damage and healing components now occur every 1 second (same values as live but twice as often). [Whose house? MY HOUSE!!1]

So if you were in charge, Templar would be disgustingly overpowered. Got it lol.

Does that list sound OP? I thought those were really modest and more QoL oriented : /

Gnortranermara

@Checkmath I hate to simply copy/paste my previous post, but since you're asking for a new round of feedback I'll do so with some edits.

Aedric Spear
Empowering Sweep: needs a buff to compete with superior options like Dawnbreaker, Soul Assault, and Meteor
Spear Shards: consolidate both current effects into one and create a new AOE root morph for tanks
Aurora Javelin: magicka morph should pull instead of knock back (leave it unmorphed if you prefer the knockback)
Sun Shield: needs a magicka-scaling morph with Major Expedition!!! (Also, why tf is this in the spear-themed skill line and not the sun/fire themed skill line? Swap it with Eclipse and change Eclipse as described below!)
Burning Light: the randomness and cooldown limit the usefulness of this passive. Possible fixes: (1) switch to a per-target cooldown once per second, trading single target damage for more AOE damage, (2) remove the randomness, making it proc 100% of the time with a one second cooldown. This would directly buff underperforming abilities like Aurora Javelin. (3) change the passive to +4/8% Magic Damage
Balanced Warrior: is not "balanced". Should give +2/4% damage done and +2/4% damage taken mitigation for both stamina and magicka characters to earn the name

Dawn's Wrath
Sun Fire: replace Major Prophecy with Minor Force. Increase duration by 1 sec to fit a full DPS rotation. The single target morph should deal more damage (instead of lasting longer) because most of the extra duration is wasted in a proper 8 sec DPS rotation.
Eclipse: too many problems with this ability. Switch it with Sun Shield and completely rework it into a new spear-themed thorns ability.
Solar Barrage: un-nerf the damage! Seriously, Templars are already severely underperforming in DPS. Nerfing the damage by 40% was excessive

Restoring Light
Breath of Life: still waaay over-nerfed from last patch. The Sorc Twilight is a superior heal and there is absolutely no justification for BoL to be so over-nerfed. Honor the Dead should remain single-target and give a cost discount, while BoL should be redesigned to heal for 33% less, but always hit self and up to two allies (healing all 3 targets for the same reduced amount).
Healing Ritual: reduce the cost and make Hasty Prayer an AOE healing aura HOT

Solariken

Oh don't forget the removal of the minimum range for Focused Charge. I think many stamplars would even use Toppling which would improve stamina sustain and provide more jabs synergy.

casparian

Okay since I was confused before, here's another round of feedback.

Other than magplar's insufficient damage and stamplar's insufficient sustain (which are getting addressed in U20), I have one main gripe with the class: we have purely reactive defenses that don't reset the fight.

Reactive defenses only work well when they allow you to start over. Don't like that someone just Dawnbreakered you into execute range? A nightblade can react by shade-porting away and cloaking until they heal back up. DKs can turn the fight 180 degrees by casting a hard-hitting ult that also heals them and grants them a powerful damage shield. Etc. Magplar's only defenses -- healing and purging -- don't do anything at all to prevent exactly the same problems that forced us to heal and purge from being reapplied immediately. Another way to put this is that good reactive defenses open up a window for you to do something other than keep reacting (i.e., go back on the offensive, escape, etc.).

On the other hand, we don't have any proactive defenses. If I know I'm about to be Rune Caged and Meteored, I can't cast Extended Ritual in order to protect myself from what's coming. Sun Shield used to play this role, but it's now ineffective. Empowering Sweep is technically a proactive defense, since it grants a nice damage reduction buff. But it only works against opponents who are stationary and whose character model is very nearly touching yours. Its hitbox or something is just awful, making this skill super unreliable against moving targets, i.e. everyone whom you actually need to defend yourself from.

The exception to all this is Total Dark -- you can cast this proactively if you expect some burst is about to happen, and you can cast it reactively in a way that allows you go back on the offensive immediately, knowing that you're going to be healed back up even though you're not casting your heal. The problem is that this skill (a) is unreliable, and (b) grants CC immunity without CCing. Imagine if every time sorcs applied a damage shield their opponent got free CC immunity, or if Nightblades couldn't use Summon Shade if their opponent was CC immune. It's not acceptable that our one sort-of proactive defense that sort-of allows you to reset the fight is limited by the CC immunity timer.

I like Total Dark as-is and think it would be fine for ZOS to leave it. It's a nice risk-and-reward option. But the problem is that that is the closest thing we have to proactive defense. That can't be our only option. We either need a morph of Sun Shield that isn't balanced around the existence of Plague Doctor, a strong HOT, or a new defensive buff attached to an existing skill.

Drdeath20

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

@Checkmath I hate to simply copy/paste my previous post, but since you're asking for a new round of feedback I'll do so with some edits.

Aedric Spear
Empowering Sweep: needs a buff to compete with superior options like Dawnbreaker, Soul Assault, and Meteor
Spear Shards: consolidate both current effects into one and create a new AOE root morph for tanks
Aurora Javelin: magicka morph should pull instead of knock back (leave it unmorphed if you prefer the knockback)
Sun Shield: needs a magicka-scaling morph with Major Expedition!!! (Also, why tf is this in the spear-themed skill line and not the sun/fire themed skill line? Swap it with Eclipse and change Eclipse as described below!)
Burning Light: the randomness and cooldown limit the usefulness of this passive. Possible fixes: (1) switch to a per-target cooldown once per second, trading single target damage for more AOE damage, (2) remove the randomness, making it proc 100% of the time with a one second cooldown. This would directly buff underperforming abilities like Aurora Javelin. (3) change the passive to +4/8% Magic Damage
Balanced Warrior: is not "balanced". Should give +2/4% damage done and +2/4% damage taken mitigation for both stamina and magicka characters to earn the name

Dawn's Wrath
Sun Fire: replace Major Prophecy with Minor Force. Increase duration by 1 sec to fit a full DPS rotation. The single target morph should deal more damage (instead of lasting longer) because most of the extra duration is wasted in a proper 8 sec DPS rotation.
Eclipse: too many problems with this ability. Switch it with Sun Shield and completely rework it into a new spear-themed thorns ability.
Solar Barrage: un-nerf the damage! Seriously, Templars are already severely underperforming in DPS. Nerfing the damage by 40% was excessive

Restoring Light
Breath of Life: still waaay over-nerfed from last patch. The Sorc Twilight is a superior heal and there is absolutely no justification for BoL to be so over-nerfed. Honor the Dead should remain single-target and give a cost discount, while BoL should be redesigned to heal for 33% less, but always hit self and up to two allies (healing all 3 targets for the same reduced amount).
Healing Ritual: reduce the cost and make Hasty Prayer an AOE healing aura HOT

This would be a dream.

maxjapank

Also, if Templars are never going to get a source of Major Sorcery, then ask the Devs to include more variations in pots. A Magicka regen, immovable, spell power pot would be great. Even a mag regen, speed, spell power would be great. I hate that Templars would be dependent on pots for Major Sorcery, but we already kind of are. We just don’t need the spell crit that we commonly get from mag regen, spell crit, spell power.

Drdeath20

Just my opinion.

Ultimates need to get checked

Meteor is cheaper and does more damage both versions of nova, it doesnt require a synergy plus it has better passive reasons to slot it. I believe that solar disturbance either should have its cost significantly reduced or it should no longer have a synergy but have its dps boosted up to compensate.

Remembrance should allow for a templar to move for those 4 seconds.

Radial sweep needs to have 2 stages of ultimate and its radius increased to 10 meters. Empowering sweep needs to do physical damage and crescent sweeps needs to do magicka damage. Stamina already has better versions of damage ultimates but tanks could use the damage reduction version. 2nd stage of ultimate costs more but stuns.

Darkflare needs to do more damage considering it has a cast time, travel time and both its secondary effects took a huge nerf. its pretty comparable to snipe and snipe does more damage.

Solar barrage should be comparable to channeled acceleration. So its needs a buff where one would have to make a tough choice between the 2 spells.

Templar passives are outdated, overly narrow, we have the most passives the simply boost subpar skills to at best average skills, theres is nothing stackable and there really is little reason to choose templars skills over other world skills.

An example is choosing meteor over nova because not only does it do more single target dps but a templar also gets their max magicka and magicka recovery increased. using ele weapons over force pulse because its slightly cheaper but also you get a 5k damage shield when blocking. Etc... templars need something like that.

Minno

casparian wrote: »

Okay since I was confused before, here's another round of feedback.

Other than magplar's insufficient damage and stamplar's insufficient sustain (which are getting addressed in U20), I have one main gripe with the class: we have purely reactive defenses that don't reset the fight.

Reactive defenses only work well when they allow you to start over. Don't like that someone just Dawnbreakered you into execute range? A nightblade can react by shade-porting away and cloaking until they heal back up. DKs can turn the fight 180 degrees by casting a hard-hitting ult that also heals them and grants them a powerful damage shield. Etc. Magplar's only defenses -- healing and purging -- don't do anything at all to prevent exactly the same problems that forced us to heal and purge from being reapplied immediately. Another way to put this is that good reactive defenses open up a window for you to do something other than keep reacting (i.e., go back on the offensive, escape, etc.).

On the other hand, we don't have any proactive defenses. If I know I'm about to be Rune Caged and Meteored, I can't cast Extended Ritual in order to protect myself from what's coming. Sun Shield used to play this role, but it's now ineffective. Empowering Sweep is technically a proactive defense, since it grants a nice damage reduction buff. But it only works against opponents who are stationary and whose character model is very nearly touching yours. Its hitbox or something is just awful, making this skill super unreliable against moving targets, i.e. everyone whom you actually need to defend yourself from.

The exception to all this is Total Dark -- you can cast this proactively if you expect some burst is about to happen, and you can cast it reactively in a way that allows you go back on the offensive immediately, knowing that you're going to be healed back up even though you're not casting your heal. The problem is that this skill (a) is unreliable, and (b) grants CC immunity without CCing. Imagine if every time sorcs applied a damage shield their opponent got free CC immunity, or if Nightblades couldn't use Summon Shade if their opponent was CC immune. It's not acceptable that our one sort-of proactive defense that sort-of allows you to reset the fight is limited by the CC immunity timer.

I like Total Dark as-is and think it would be fine for ZOS to leave it. It's a nice risk-and-reward option. But the problem is that that is the closest thing we have to proactive defense. That can't be our only option. We either need a morph of Sun Shield that isn't balanced around the existence of Plague Doctor, a strong HOT, or a new defensive buff attached to an existing skill.

Another argument is that total dark only helps alleviate magplars issues with no proactive defense. Stamplar has to gain these from weapons but doesn't really have an answer in their class kit like NB, Sorc, warden or DK.

Cage_Lizardman

Solariken wrote: »

Piercing Spear (passive)
Now also increases damage done by 10% to enemies with a damage shield while an Aedric Spear ability is slotted.

I like this but it's still quite weak. I'd love for templars to be made just as op against sorcs and nb's as they are towards the rest right now. Make 50% of Aedric Spear damage go straight through shields. Make nb's unable to cloak inside ritual and for a few seconds after leaving it. Also make Backlash prevent cloaking while active.

Give us warriors of the light some actual weapons against the plague of daedra summoners and shady assassins in cyrodiil.

Mr_Nobody

zos confirmed to put templars on par with every class in pvp...


in a major balance patch...


in 2022

Checkmath

Mr_Nobody wrote: »

zos confirmed to put templars on par with every class in pvp...


in a major balance patch...


in 2022

very constructive mate....not even funny.

Edelner

What do you think about Stamplar DPS 2h + bow?