[Class Rep] Sorcerer Feedback Thread

bardx86 · August 2018

ZOS_MikaS wrote: »

We have recently removed several unnecessary/bashing comments from this thread. Please keep the discussion civil. Thank you for your understanding.

You talk about civil? How about a civil way of fixing the dam class first. Then the forums would be more civil.

SickleCider · August 2018

I came back to read some more of this thread. I'm going to echo a couple things that I thought were insightful:

Having to have two passive abilities slotted (for me, mage light and bound armor) is criminally limiting. My L1/R1 triggers are functionally useless on both bars. The active abilities aren't useful or inspiring for a PVE sorcerer.
Sorcerers are severely gimped for survivability/mobility, due to not having access to stamina, medium armor, or heavy armor. Having overall survivability/mobility and damage scale off one stat is insane and gives an inherent advantage to stamina builds in that arena.* We have access to damage mitigation through shields, but this is also criminally limiting. You must run light armor, you must dump all into magicka, and you must run shields, or you will be ineffective and vulnerable. Forget roll-dodging or blocking, ever.

*Before anyone jumps on this, I'm not claiming that stamina builds are superior to magicka builds. I just don't think they have to make as many stat-oriented sacrifices.

zeroIndex · August 2018

The lack of a balanced rotation has to be my biggest annoyance. The timing for the skills makes for a bad experience. You have wall of elements, liquid lighting and curse and their timing causes too many extra bar swaps and creates a feeling like you don't have any control of the timing of the skills. On top of that, you toss a random proc chance for the crystal frag, it just makes the whole rotation seem like a mess. I would really like to see the skills line up a lot better to match rotations similar to other classes. It would also help sorcs with a higher ping

pdblake · August 2018

I'm playing a magicka sorceror at the moment. I'm quite happy with the build really and my two complaints are really just cosmetic.

1: After streaking through enemies (sounds odd I know), could it be possible to turn around and face them again, only I find that (In first person anyway) that I'm suddenly a good distance from where I was a second ago and facing the wrong way and being shot in the back, so to speak. I can see this a problematic to implement though as not everyone wants to turn back around, but might just want to keep going.

2: Agree with posts above about pets in town. But can we also remove them when in UIs, the sight of twilight wings flapping around behind whatever UI I'm trying to interact with is very distracting, as is the sound from all the buzzing insects (I suffer from terrible blue-bottle rage and always keep a newspaper handy) and clicking dwarven things. All general things which are not needed while just trying to make a new staff and, in some cases, cause some lag if there's enough of it in one place. Also not being able to see the crafting writ drop off chests because a horses backside is in the way too. Perhaps an automatic dismount after being still for a few seconds?

Heymexa · August 2018

1. STOP nerfs! You discourage the desire to play ..
2. Make the rotation more stable!
3. Recall that Magsors is an electric magician. Make electricity again relevant!
4. For pet-builds: pets in pvoes should not cause problems for other players. Correct the mechanics associated with pets!
5. More sustain for sorcerers!

oxygen_thief · August 2018

there is no sense to write here anything. i bet they dont even bother to read your ideas

Creepy47 · August 2018

Solution :

Remove Sorcerer from the game

Beardimus · August 2018

Creepy47 wrote: »

Solution :

Remove Sorcerer from the game

The NerfSorc brigade would still moan, and want them nerfed. It's a constant here.

I'm embarrassed for anyone posting threads after U19 moaning about sorcs

Ozazz · August 2018

_Salty_ wrote: »

Ozazz wrote: »

its really depressing how this class has been regressing for years now while people still have the miss conception of being the best and truly undermine the player skill it takes to have success in pvp! Any stam class in pvp will treat you better in outnumbered situations modernly speaking. its pretty evident that zos had no regard for the skillful game play frag cc implemented in the game, so much of open world success and dueling revolved around it, not to mention if you were on a magic sorcerer vs another, the entire fight revolved around the cc. the skill has taken a 30% damage reduction, with might of the guild and they still deny us our cc mean while they debuff our only other reliable cc. there's a reason more people play stam sorc then magic lets be honest here . my 2 points would have to be frag cc and some type of snare removal thank you for your time.

More people play stamsorc over magsorc? Are you mad? All i see in pvp is magsorcs.

buddy stam sorc is way more popular then mgk

Ozazz · August 2018

IAVITNI wrote: »

_Salty_ wrote: »

Ozazz wrote: »

its really depressing how this class has been regressing for years now while people still have the miss conception of being the best and truly undermine the player skill it takes to have success in pvp! Any stam class in pvp will treat you better in outnumbered situations modernly speaking. its pretty evident that zos had no regard for the skillful game play frag cc implemented in the game, so much of open world success and dueling revolved around it, not to mention if you were on a magic sorcerer vs another, the entire fight revolved around the cc. the skill has taken a 30% damage reduction, with might of the guild and they still deny us our cc mean while they debuff our only other reliable cc. there's a reason more people play stam sorc then magic lets be honest here . my 2 points would have to be frag cc and some type of snare removal thank you for your time.

More people play stamsorc over magsorc? Are you mad? All i see in pvp is magsorcs.

Pretty sure this is coming from a solo/small scale perspective. More and more of these players have been switching from mag to stam. Even towards the end of SS as everyone knew a nerf was coming.

Solo/small scale is the best indicator of individual class health relative to other classes because players are almost entirely relying on their own character to play. Even in small scale. To clarify, small scale is really groups of 4 or less where MAYBE 1 skill/set is changed but for the most part, those players can detach from the group and perform nearly as well as if they were built for solo.

Zerg and co-ordinated play is a weaker indicator of overall class health and is better at highlighting overperforming mechanics of the class since those players are usually specialized to optimize the use of said broken mechanics.

Dueling hightlights the best cheese in the game.

see the zerglings don't understand this and never will yet they have the most influence in the game and can shift the weather. its ironic isn't it?

Ozazz · August 2018

cpuScientist wrote: »

StamSorc Pain Points:
1. Hurricane is tickle damage even at max capacity.
2. Utter lack of useful passives.
3. Utter lack of useful skills.
4. Utter lack of class identity.

Ideas for stamSorc:
1. Buff hurricane damage, remove the defense component. Give a snare removal 2 second immunity. Now because we want the damage to build we have to give that up to remove snares balanced I'd say...
2. Crystal Blast melee proc slam the ground for smallish AOE or just whallop somebody with a fist of diamonds.
3. Bound armament, the active is useless throw the defense buff here let our eyes glow like the mag one.
4. Redo passives puhlease.
5. Stam wind based overload
6. Stam wind based atronach
7. THIS IS NOT SORC SPECIFIC, Make wrecking blow morph instant cast, reduce the damage to be more in line with other Stam instant abilities of course. Leave dizzy with the cast time whatever.

Thank you. MAKE SORCS GREAT AGAIN!

buddy get that stamina sorc nonsense out of here. The Class is better off the magic 100% for pvp. Do you want to know why stamina sorcerer lacks identity? because whenever and whoever plays a new mmo in general, who in their right mind wants to play a mage class, in eso being the sorcerer, being stamina based when generically in any other mmo is magic based.
this is zos's fault for the way character customization is in this game and the ability to hybrid any class or choose stamina vs magic when traditionally speaking its not conventional. Which typically leads to people crying for needs and buffs subsequently leading to what we call flavor of the month. its my belief that if you steer away from the intended path of a class that class should not perform well.

Ozazz · August 2018

Aedaryl wrote: »

@Tasear @Joy_Division @NightbladeMechanics @everyone and their mother.

ZoS doesn't care about pets, and even more about pets in a PvP content.

I'm playing pet sorc in PvP (openworld, duels and battleground).

Here is my precious feedback, precious because I'm one of the few sorc existing playing with pets seriously in PvP.

First, I want to clarify why pets are not used and hated. If you look at the picture made for the first meeting, pets is the main sorc concern but it's also the main warden concern. It's not something useless or PvE only.

Pets are not used/hated because they are unreliable.

Here is some PvP exemple :
You jump from upstair to downstair => Pets are stuck or lost or very far away

You want to kite with rocks/landscape => Pets are stuck or lost

You need to kite ennemies with streak => Pets are lost or far away

You want to chase someone => Pets don't follow so they are stuck or far away

You drop atronach => People go out of range, youhou you spent 170 ultimate for nothing.

You survive an ultimate impact => Pets are dead, Your main heal and damage are locked behind 3s cast time

You avoid the destro zerg => Pets are dead, Your main heal and damage are locked behind 3s cast time

Ennemi take advantage of landscape => Pets can't go there and are useless/

There is too much people fightning you => Pets are dead, Your main heal and damage are locked behind 3s cast time

There is some nasty lag => Pets refuse to move and are useless

Pets have their max HP pool increased by battle spirit but they are summoned with the 5k health missing, and it's everywhere battle spirit is.

To be continued...

Let's see why all thezes bug make PvP pet sorc not wanted and stated as non viable by most people :

- Sorc openworld playstyle is divided into 2 parts :

1) Spreading & Kitting : Sorc will streak away and kite people until they are out of ennemy attack range (kitting with rocks/landscape) or until ennemies are in a reasonable number to kill them.

Problem : When you streak away, pets don't follow => Unreliable
When you kite into rocks/landscape, pets will not follow => Unreliable

2) Fighting : You are in a good position to kill ennemies and actually truely fight.

Problem : You can't take adventage of landscape cuz pet will be stuck and you will need 3s to recast your main damage skill and your main heal. => Unreliable.
SOLUTIONS:

To make pet attractive and usefull, ZoS need to make them reliable :

Something need to happen :

- Give to console player the command already existing on PC, it would add to the main sorc concern a sign of hope.

The only off meta build avaible for magsorc is behind PC barrier, this is a shame. Console player can't play pets in PvP because they don't have a way to make them passive and follow. It also include combat proc pets and warden bear ultimate.

- Make the "come back" command (Y + right click) PORTING pets to you, it will solve 90% of problems.

- Make pets less quishy by enabling DEFENSIVE CPs (only).

If you need more information why thezes solutions would work, feel free to ask.

Take away pets and give them to a necromancer class for all i care. then buff sorc abilities

Ozazz · August 2018

bardx86 wrote: »

ZOS_MikaS wrote: »

We have recently removed several unnecessary/bashing comments from this thread. Please keep the discussion civil. Thank you for your understanding.

You talk about civil? How about a civil way of fixing the dam class first. Then the forums would be more civil.

they want to talk about us being civil when they have consistently butchered the class and debuffed it more than any other class direct and indirect!
I could loose my mind on these clueless devs! Don't take that as a insult its just being realistic. Facts dont care about feelings.

josh.lackey_ESO · August 2018

1) Oblivion damage shouldn't go through shields. Shields have been nerfed, and shield damage CP added, as well as other balance changes since Shield Breaker was implemented back in IC. Now there is Knight Slayer and Sloads. Along with infused enchants. It should also obey Battle Spirit and be halved from tooltip damage in PvP, but for some reason, no one even thinks about this. It's really not possible to counter bow light spam with shield breaker and infused oblivion enchant. You just have to LoS and run away. You could fix Shield Breaker to have a few seconds of reasonable cooldown like every other proc set, or make shields absorb oblivion damage (even if they take double or something).

2) Pets are too dumb. They take two three bar slots. Others have pointed out they go off passive everytime you heavy attack. It's annoying to constantly Y+right-click. I don't even want a pet, I just want the pet ability. I mostly use the twilight so I have a burst heal. I would rather just have a heal and no twilight than to have a dumb twilight that stands under every oil and AoE she can find. (I should note, the main reason I run the twilight in the first place is to heal oblivion damage.)

I could add snares and roots as a problem, but I have given up entirely on being able to play with two staves, and use a 2h sword with Forward Momentum because otherwise, PvP is unplayable.

JobooAGS · August 2018

Ozazz wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

StamSorc Pain Points:
1. Hurricane is tickle damage even at max capacity.
2. Utter lack of useful passives.
3. Utter lack of useful skills.
4. Utter lack of class identity.

Ideas for stamSorc:
1. Buff hurricane damage, remove the defense component. Give a snare removal 2 second immunity. Now because we want the damage to build we have to give that up to remove snares balanced I'd say...
2. Crystal Blast melee proc slam the ground for smallish AOE or just whallop somebody with a fist of diamonds.
3. Bound armament, the active is useless throw the defense buff here let our eyes glow like the mag one.
4. Redo passives puhlease.
5. Stam wind based overload
6. Stam wind based atronach
7. THIS IS NOT SORC SPECIFIC, Make wrecking blow morph instant cast, reduce the damage to be more in line with other Stam instant abilities of course. Leave dizzy with the cast time whatever.

Thank you. MAKE SORCS GREAT AGAIN!

buddy get that stamina sorc nonsense out of here. The Class is better off the magic 100% for pvp. Do you want to know why stamina sorcerer lacks identity? because whenever and whoever plays a new mmo in general, who in their right mind wants to play a mage class, in eso being the sorcerer, being stamina based when generically in any other mmo is magic based.
this is zos's fault for the way character customization is in this game and the ability to hybrid any class or choose stamina vs magic when traditionally speaking its not conventional. Which typically leads to people crying for needs and buffs subsequently leading to what we call flavor of the month. its my belief that if you steer away from the intended path of a class that class should not perform well.

Spellsword

RebornV3x · August 2018

This thread is a waste of time did should just close it why bother

rafaelcsmaia · August 2018

Long story short:

-ZoS has a limited staff, not enough devs/gms/whatever to handle the multitude of players - flashing news, they dont care.

-Having low staff to handle, they create this magic class representative program, which they dont listen (Got feedback from the discord from a few saying they suggest, ZoS Listens and make their own decisions)- another flashing news, the program seems flawed and ZoS still doesnt care

But fear not fellow zookeepers, the next crown crate season is right around the corner, we can suck while riding an awesome remade origami camel, all while watching NBs faceroll pve and pvp.

usmguy1234 · August 2018

rafaelcsmaia wrote: »

Long story short:

-ZoS has a limited staff, not enough devs/gms/whatever to handle the multitude of players - flashing news, they dont care.

-Having low staff to handle, they create this magic class representative program, which they dont listen (Got feedback from the discord from a few saying they suggest, ZoS Listens and make their own decisions)- another flashing news, the program seems flawed and ZoS still doesnt care

But fear not fellow zookeepers, the next crown crate season is right around the corner, we can suck while riding an awesome remade origami camel, all while watching NBs faceroll pve and pvp.

Facts

BuddyAces · August 2018

rafaelcsmaia wrote: »

Long story short:

-ZoS has a limited staff, not enough devs/gms/whatever to handle the multitude of players - flashing news, they dont care.

-Having low staff to handle, they create this magic class representative program, which they dont listen (Got feedback from the discord from a few saying they suggest, ZoS Listens and make their own decisions)- another flashing news, the program seems flawed and ZoS still doesnt care

But fear not fellow zookeepers, the next crown crate season is right around the corner, we can suck while riding an awesome remade origami camel, all while watching NBs faceroll pve and pvp.

As long as whomever is calling the shots about not separating pve and pvp the balance for this game is going to suck. Whether that's a dev or marketing guy or whoever.

Frankly you could toss out more than half the suggestions in this thread. When people give their opinions on class change they are basing it off of their aspect of gameplay.

A PvP person is only going to think about that and not a "filthy casual" rp person just wanting to story quest.

Your casual story quester isn't going to give good feedback on endgame raiding.

Endgame raider is only going to give feedback to make things harder.

When you give feedback you need to think of every aspect of gameplay there is. So thank God the devs aren't listening to every piece of advice given here. Btw, I'm not white knighting here, I main a stam sorc so that should tell where I stand on balance issues.

mateosalvaje · August 2018

I've been playing magsorc since day 1, and have my Vermilion Scuttler to prove it. My main gripe is the delay when casting "instant" skills. I know the headline says to mention 2 grievances, but if that were fixed, I think everything else would be fine.

rafaelcsmaia · August 2018

BuddyAces wrote: »

rafaelcsmaia wrote: »

Long story short:

-ZoS has a limited staff, not enough devs/gms/whatever to handle the multitude of players - flashing news, they dont care.

-Having low staff to handle, they create this magic class representative program, which they dont listen (Got feedback from the discord from a few saying they suggest, ZoS Listens and make their own decisions)- another flashing news, the program seems flawed and ZoS still doesnt care

But fear not fellow zookeepers, the next crown crate season is right around the corner, we can suck while riding an awesome remade origami camel, all while watching NBs faceroll pve and pvp.

As long as whomever is calling the shots about not separating pve and pvp the balance for this game is going to suck. Whether that's a dev or marketing guy or whoever.

Frankly you could toss out more than half the suggestions in this thread. When people give their opinions on class change they are basing it off of their aspect of gameplay.

A PvP person is only going to think about that and not a "filthy casual" rp person just wanting to story quest.

Your casual story quester isn't going to give good feedback on endgame raiding.

Endgame raider is only going to give feedback to make things harder.

When you give feedback you need to think of every aspect of gameplay there is. So thank God the devs aren't listening to every piece of advice given here. Btw, I'm not white knighting here, I main a stam sorc so that should tell where I stand on balance issues.

I agree with you, the "sheet" storm in the forums is insane when it comes to changes.

I play all aspects in the game (aside from the filthy RP lol) and it is indeed crazy to think they can balance everything.

My shot would be to abuse battle spirit to make skill specific tweaks on it, it can be a long shot i know, but it is a start.

However, im just another one in the sea of tears here rofl

BeefyMrTips · August 2018

Sustain Please, that is all

Wizunas · August 2018

So Rune was reduced to 2 seconds and Incap Strike left to 4.5 seconds??? WHY? Idk what some players do but Incap Strike put u down for even 6 seconds and by the time u break it you're dead

/

Please Restore Rune cc back to 3.5 - 4.5 sec at least. This change is not good for both pve and pvp.

WreckfulAbandon · August 2018

I see the recent CC duration reduction as a buff to sorcs using it in high level play.

No good player is gonna fail to CC break in 3.5 sec unless OOS or glitchy/laggy response.

The 2 sec stun allows sorcs to get the extra damage from Cage more often, providing more burst. As a sorc you don't need a long stun, you just need a stun to land your burst. The stun being 2 seconds makes it more likely they will take damage from Cage. I see this as a buff to sorcs playing smartly. Although the best CC for sorcs is still have your NB/DK buddy CC them.

BuddyAces · August 2018

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

I see the recent CC duration reduction as a buff to sorcs using it in high level play.

No good player is gonna fail to CC break in 3.5 sec unless OOS or glitchy/laggy response.

The 2 sec stun allows sorcs to get the extra damage from Cage more often, providing more burst. As a sorc you don't need a long stun, you just need a stun to land your burst. The stun being 2 seconds makes it more likely they will take damage from Cage. I see this as a buff to sorcs playing smartly. Although the best CC for sorcs is still have your NB/DK buddy CC them.

You ever been hit by it?????? The stun duration wasn't the problem. The problem is CC break in general with that skill. You could have full stam and sometimes never break free from it.

Apherius · August 2018

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

I see the recent CC duration reduction as a buff to sorcs using it in high level play.

No good player is gonna fail to CC break in 3.5 sec unless OOS or glitchy/laggy response.

The 2 sec stun allows sorcs to get the extra damage from Cage more often, providing more burst. As a sorc you don't need a long stun, you just need a stun to land your burst. The stun being 2 seconds makes it more likely they will take damage from Cage. I see this as a buff to sorcs playing smartly. Although the best CC for sorcs is still have your NB/DK buddy CC them.

the Cage deal 6K damage ... not that much, half the damage of a frag, and less damage than a force pulse.

[Master's Destro] Clench ~ 2092 magicka ~ 28 meters : Devastate an enemy with an enhanced charge from your staff, dealing 8338 fire damage and 6940 fire damage more over 8 seconds.
Also knocks back the enemy.

Rune cage ~ 2984 magicka ~ 28 meters : Imprison an enemy in a sphere of dark magic, stunning them for 2 seconds. Deals 5442 Magic Damage if the stun lasts the full duration.
This stun cannot be blocked.

Clench cost 1K less magicka than rune cage, deal more damage AND damage over time, can be used instead force pulse and free a bar slot.

Rune cage ... is unblockable and maybe deal damage and they said they would " improve the messaging of when the stun will apply."

What is the point of using rune cage instead of clench ? who is this skil for ? Bad PVE players and those who don't have the time to run Vdsa. ( Though, even without master destro, clench is still better than rune cage and free a bar slot)

WreckfulAbandon · August 2018

BuddyAces wrote: »

You ever been hit by it?????? The stun duration wasn't the problem. The problem is CC break in general with that skill. You could have full stam and sometimes never break free from it.

Reading comprehension. Try it out.

Apherius wrote: »

the Cage deal 6K damage ... not that much, half the damage of a frag, and less damage than a force pulse.

[Master's Destro] Clench ~ 2092 magicka ~ 28 meters : Devastate an enemy with an enhanced charge from your staff, dealing 8338 fire damage and 6940 fire damage more over 8 seconds.
Also knocks back the enemy.

Rune cage ~ 2984 magicka ~ 28 meters : Imprison an enemy in a sphere of dark magic, stunning them for 2 seconds. Deals 5442 Magic Damage if the stun lasts the full duration.
This stun cannot be blocked.

Clench cost 1K less magicka than rune cage, deal more damage AND damage over time, can be used instead force pulse and free a bar slot.

Rune cage ... is unblockable and maybe deal damage and they said they would " improve the messaging of when the stun will apply."

What is the point of using rune cage instead of clench ? who is this skil for ? Bad PVE players and those who don't have the time to run Vdsa. ( Though, even without master destro, clench is still better than rune cage and free a bar slot)

Did I say it was the best thing since sliced bread? No, I called it for what it is, a minor buff in the face of overwhelming nerfs. No way I'm gonna use clench which is blockable, dodgeable, reflectable, and super easy to avoid the CC.

Crushing shock will always have a place on my bar.

ruikkarikun · August 2018

STOP NERFING SORC. DON't EVEN TOUCH WARDS.

oxygen_thief · August 2018

BuddyAces wrote: »

You ever been hit by it?????? The stun duration wasn't the problem. The problem is CC break in general with that skill. You could have full stam and sometimes never break free from it.

cc system is broken. you can have same problem with any cc ability in the game even with destructive reach

Jsmalls · August 2018

6 nerfs to Rune Cage, that seriously has to be some kind of record. Wasn't a big fan of the ability myself but damn.

The patch doesn't hit till the 28th for me, so I must ask the MagSorc mains (not the meta jumpers), how's MagSorc performing in competitive PvP? My guess is subpar like we were two patches ago with not enough damage to burst players, and not enough sustained damage to threaten players?