[Class Rep] Sorcerer Feedback Thread

MalagenR

@Joy_Division @Minno & Other Class Reps

The only feedback I would give about the Sorc Class is that due to the fact that gap closers do not have an increased cost while they are spammed Streak should not have an increased cost and should have it's stun duration increased to 2 seconds so that sitting in the stun is actually dangerous.

This would give us a reliable Lightning Direct Attack, that CC's, and provides mobility in small group, large group, and 1v1 scenarios with counter play.

Yes, Sorc would become much more mobile as people could streak away. But, I don't see this as being any different from the fact that NB's can cloak away. A ranged damage dealer should have significant mobility in a game where gap closers can be spammed and many of them come with a built in snare. The counterplay to me is obvious, if you're a stamDD or tankDD you'll need to have a snare on your bar or a poison on your weapon that will slow down streaking Sorc's in the same fashion that we need to bring either Magelight or Detect Pots when fighting NB's, etc.

Also, the damage is actually perfect where it's at and is one of our only lightning specific direct damage attacks. This is in line with the Sorcerer class - the Streak morph could have it's multiplicative cost removed when you take the morph while Bolt Escape could have it added so that Bolt Escape users cannot abuse the 2 second invuln window against other mag classes.

Streak has a cost of 3.2k which is reasonable and in-line with the Destructive Clench CC that we use now, meaning that using it as a Direct DD spammable in conjunction with Frags + Curse + Fury would be a legitimate combo that has real counterplay in the same way using Clench is. This would take out our necessity to rely on Destro/Resto as our survivability due to an increase in mobility would increase - the sorc community might actually shift to 2x Destro - and so we wouldn't be shield stacking as much because our kill power / mobility goes up but our defense goes down.

Minno

MalagenR wrote: »

@Joy_Division @Minno & Other Class Reps

The only feedback I would give about the Sorc Class is that due to the fact that gap closers do not have an increased cost while they are spammed Streak should not have an increased cost and should have it's stun duration increased to 2 seconds so that sitting in the stun is actually dangerous.

This would give us a reliable Lightning Direct Attack, that CC's, and provides mobility in small group, large group, and 1v1 scenarios with counter play.

Yes, Sorc would become much more mobile as people could streak away. But, I don't see this as being any different from the fact that NB's can cloak away. A ranged damage dealer should have significant mobility in a game where gap closers can be spammed and many of them come with a built in snare. The counterplay to me is obvious, if you're a stamDD or tankDD you'll need to have a snare on your bar or a poison on your weapon that will slow down streaking Sorc's in the same fashion that we need to bring either Magelight or Detect Pots when fighting NB's, etc.

Also, the damage is actually perfect where it's at and is one of our only lightning specific direct damage attacks. This is in line with the Sorcerer class - the Streak morph could have it's multiplicative cost removed when you take the morph while Bolt Escape could have it added so that Bolt Escape users cannot abuse the 2 second invuln window against other mag classes.

Streak has a cost of 3.2k which is reasonable and in-line with the Destructive Clench CC that we use now, meaning that using it as a Direct DD spammable in conjunction with Frags + Curse + Fury would be a legitimate combo that has real counterplay in the same way using Clench is. This would take out our necessity to rely on Destro/Resto as our survivability due to an increase in mobility would increase - the sorc community might actually shift to 2x Destro - and so we wouldn't be shield stacking as much because our kill power / mobility goes up but our defense goes down.

FYI, I am not a class rep :P.

I do think sorc suffers from it's reliance on hardened ward but doesn't have a defense that stam sorc can take advantage of (which impacts sorc tanks as a role in a way and doesnt fit in with the "play as you want" mentality ZOS wants to foster). The class needs a defense that can work pro-actively and pets need to be removed so they can properly adjust the class to make it a little flexible in the gear selection. I do love how crits dictate their healing as a unique function of the class, and definitely feel like ZOS can explore this further (maybe an AOE control mechanic that procs off crits, extra healing off crits, etc).

And while they have a better regen passive than templars (both cost reduction and regen while templars only have a small cost reduction), dark deal is harder to manage than siphoning strikes or DK's sustain via burning/poison/ultimate use in combat. But idk what do here because my salty templar butt is sad we only have cost reduction and a slottable resource skill that uses dead bodies or a skill that provide the same minor mag steal as a free cost ranged ability yet ours costs over 3k after cost reduction and is AOE cast around us lol.

Beardimus

Streak would be a cool alternative CC but its just not quite there. Maybe a tad more damage, or remove stacking cost if used offensivly. Just stack if running away.

Minno

Beardimus wrote: »

Streak would be a cool alternative CC but its just not quite there. Maybe a tad more damage, or remove stacking cost if used offensivly. Just stack if running away.

Honestly, just remove the stacking cost if zos isn't going to give sorcs some gear/skill use freedom or keep giving them buffs on pets.

MalagenR

Yeah, if the stacking cost was removed on the offensive choice it would be used as a spammable of sorts. Maybe make Ball a stamina option?

ku5h

Beardimus wrote: »

Streak would be a cool alternative CC but its just not quite there. Maybe a tad more damage, or remove stacking cost if used offensivly. Just stack if running away.

Problem of Streak as CCs is that it's to short (1.5sec) when you take in account the nature of Streak as CC. When you fire it off you go trough your enemy and need to turn around, retarget and then continue your combo. To much of a delay for my taste.
Streak as a spammable is just lol, even though it actually does decent dmg.

Vahrokh

Apherius wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

I see the recent CC duration reduction as a buff to sorcs using it in high level play.

No good player is gonna fail to CC break in 3.5 sec unless OOS or glitchy/laggy response.

The 2 sec stun allows sorcs to get the extra damage from Cage more often, providing more burst. As a sorc you don't need a long stun, you just need a stun to land your burst. The stun being 2 seconds makes it more likely they will take damage from Cage. I see this as a buff to sorcs playing smartly. Although the best CC for sorcs is still have your NB/DK buddy CC them.

the Cage deal 6K damage ... not that much, half the damage of a frag, and less damage than a force pulse.

[Master's Destro] Clench ~ 2092 magicka ~ 28 meters : Devastate an enemy with an enhanced charge from your staff, dealing 8338 fire damage and 6940 fire damage more over 8 seconds.
Also knocks back the enemy.

Rune cage ~ 2984 magicka ~ 28 meters : Imprison an enemy in a sphere of dark magic, stunning them for 2 seconds. Deals 5442 Magic Damage if the stun lasts the full duration.
This stun cannot be blocked.

Clench cost 1K less magicka than rune cage, deal more damage AND damage over time, can be used instead force pulse and free a bar slot.

Rune cage ... is unblockable and maybe deal damage and they said they would " improve the messaging of when the stun will apply."

What is the point of using rune cage instead of clench ? who is this skil for ? Bad PVE players and those who don't have the time to run Vdsa. ( Though, even without master destro, clench is still better than rune cage and free a bar slot)

Beware, this is the quickest way to get Clench nerfed!

"Oh, magsorcs still breath? KILL'EM, kill'em with fire!"

Joy_Division

MalagenR wrote: »

@Joy_Division @Minno & Other Class Reps

The only feedback I would give about the Sorc Class is that due to the fact that gap closers do not have an increased cost while they are spammed Streak should not have an increased cost and should have it's stun duration increased to 2 seconds so that sitting in the stun is actually dangerous.

This would give us a reliable Lightning Direct Attack, that CC's, and provides mobility in small group, large group, and 1v1 scenarios with counter play.

Yes, Sorc would become much more mobile as people could streak away. But, I don't see this as being any different from the fact that NB's can cloak away. A ranged damage dealer should have significant mobility in a game where gap closers can be spammed and many of them come with a built in snare. The counterplay to me is obvious, if you're a stamDD or tankDD you'll need to have a snare on your bar or a poison on your weapon that will slow down streaking Sorc's in the same fashion that we need to bring either Magelight or Detect Pots when fighting NB's, etc.

Also, the damage is actually perfect where it's at and is one of our only lightning specific direct damage attacks. This is in line with the Sorcerer class - the Streak morph could have it's multiplicative cost removed when you take the morph while Bolt Escape could have it added so that Bolt Escape users cannot abuse the 2 second invuln window against other mag classes.

Streak has a cost of 3.2k which is reasonable and in-line with the Destructive Clench CC that we use now, meaning that using it as a Direct DD spammable in conjunction with Frags + Curse + Fury would be a legitimate combo that has real counterplay in the same way using Clench is. This would take out our necessity to rely on Destro/Resto as our survivability due to an increase in mobility would increase - the sorc community might actually shift to 2x Destro - and so we wouldn't be shield stacking as much because our kill power / mobility goes up but our defense goes down.

A lot of sorcs have been proposing for years that streak should not incur a cost increase if it hits a target (i.e. used as an offensive skill rather than just a get-out-of-dodge skill). I don't know why ZOS has resisted this as it matches the mobile theme of the sorcerer and make it a more appealing CC option.

I also would prefer the direction to what you indicate, less reliance on shield stacking, more on offense/mobility.

Will pass it on.

Aedaryl

Minno wrote: »

MalagenR wrote: »

@Joy_Division @Minno & Other Class Reps

The only feedback I would give about the Sorc Class is that due to the fact that gap closers do not have an increased cost while they are spammed Streak should not have an increased cost and should have it's stun duration increased to 2 seconds so that sitting in the stun is actually dangerous.

This would give us a reliable Lightning Direct Attack, that CC's, and provides mobility in small group, large group, and 1v1 scenarios with counter play.

Yes, Sorc would become much more mobile as people could streak away. But, I don't see this as being any different from the fact that NB's can cloak away. A ranged damage dealer should have significant mobility in a game where gap closers can be spammed and many of them come with a built in snare. The counterplay to me is obvious, if you're a stamDD or tankDD you'll need to have a snare on your bar or a poison on your weapon that will slow down streaking Sorc's in the same fashion that we need to bring either Magelight or Detect Pots when fighting NB's, etc.

Also, the damage is actually perfect where it's at and is one of our only lightning specific direct damage attacks. This is in line with the Sorcerer class - the Streak morph could have it's multiplicative cost removed when you take the morph while Bolt Escape could have it added so that Bolt Escape users cannot abuse the 2 second invuln window against other mag classes.

Streak has a cost of 3.2k which is reasonable and in-line with the Destructive Clench CC that we use now, meaning that using it as a Direct DD spammable in conjunction with Frags + Curse + Fury would be a legitimate combo that has real counterplay in the same way using Clench is. This would take out our necessity to rely on Destro/Resto as our survivability due to an increase in mobility would increase - the sorc community might actually shift to 2x Destro - and so we wouldn't be shield stacking as much because our kill power / mobility goes up but our defense goes down.

FYI, I am not a class rep :P.

I do think sorc suffers from it's reliance on hardened ward but doesn't have a defense that stam sorc can take advantage of (which impacts sorc tanks as a role in a way and doesnt fit in with the "play as you want" mentality ZOS wants to foster). The class needs a defense that can work pro-actively and pets need to be removed so they can properly adjust the class to make it a little flexible in the gear selection. I do love how crits dictate their healing as a unique function of the class, and definitely feel like ZOS can explore this further (maybe an AOE control mechanic that procs off crits, extra healing off crits, etc).

And while they have a better regen passive than templars (both cost reduction and regen while templars only have a small cost reduction), dark deal is harder to manage than siphoning strikes or DK's sustain via burning/poison/ultimate use in combat. But idk what do here because my salty templar butt is sad we only have cost reduction and a slottable resource skill that uses dead bodies or a skill that provide the same minor mag steal as a free cost ranged ability yet ours costs over 3k after cost reduction and is AOE cast around us lol.

Pets are strong and a lot of people play with it and like it.

ZoS need to intruce a dark magic dot that would make the proc the 10% health passive every 2s. Make it with the useless crystal blast morph or the garbage rune cage.

Aedaryl

@Joy_Division

Streak and shield stacking need to be adressed, as well as the lack of pressure.

Every PvP sorc build look the same cuz streak have a cost increase and because Sorc need to shield stack for survivability.

Here how to build a sorc :

- For defense, healing ward is the best option for healing, hardened alone is too weak cuz it doesn't last enough to set up the burst and so you need harness to gain enough safe GCD for setting the curse/frag/stun/fury combo.

-You need mobility cuz you can't stop shielding while under heavy pressure, so you take streak. Streak insn't sustainable without dark exchange, so you take it.

You already have 5 slots you are forced to take.

Now add the offense : You need curse, because it's the strongest sorc skill. You need frag because it's the highest damage skill you got. Then you need a stun and the best stun is reach. Then you take the execute because it fits really well with the toolkit.

You end up with 1 flex skill.

90% of sorc builds are the same : destro/resto light armor with 90% of the exact same skills.

If harness wasn't needed to be able to set up the burst (50k magicka sorc got hardened destroy in 2 gcd by a tanky la/spammable/bash build) theb sorc could be more deverse. For that you need to buff hardened ward (add minor main for 6s to ennemies).

If you make sorc not being forced to slot dark exchange for sustaining streak, you would free an other skill.

If you would make the useless frag morph having a good dot and make rune cage a good dot so it's not a useless skill, you would give sorc pressure aka the ability to kill someone on competitive level, and you would give sorc choice.

Actually sorc is forced to take skill and have no choice.

The only viable class defense is too spend 2 global cooldown for setting up the 4 other to land a 100% telegraphed burst that will not kill people because you are not able to put pressure on them.

Minno

Aedaryl wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

MalagenR wrote: »

@Joy_Division @Minno & Other Class Reps

The only feedback I would give about the Sorc Class is that due to the fact that gap closers do not have an increased cost while they are spammed Streak should not have an increased cost and should have it's stun duration increased to 2 seconds so that sitting in the stun is actually dangerous.

This would give us a reliable Lightning Direct Attack, that CC's, and provides mobility in small group, large group, and 1v1 scenarios with counter play.

Yes, Sorc would become much more mobile as people could streak away. But, I don't see this as being any different from the fact that NB's can cloak away. A ranged damage dealer should have significant mobility in a game where gap closers can be spammed and many of them come with a built in snare. The counterplay to me is obvious, if you're a stamDD or tankDD you'll need to have a snare on your bar or a poison on your weapon that will slow down streaking Sorc's in the same fashion that we need to bring either Magelight or Detect Pots when fighting NB's, etc.

Also, the damage is actually perfect where it's at and is one of our only lightning specific direct damage attacks. This is in line with the Sorcerer class - the Streak morph could have it's multiplicative cost removed when you take the morph while Bolt Escape could have it added so that Bolt Escape users cannot abuse the 2 second invuln window against other mag classes.

Streak has a cost of 3.2k which is reasonable and in-line with the Destructive Clench CC that we use now, meaning that using it as a Direct DD spammable in conjunction with Frags + Curse + Fury would be a legitimate combo that has real counterplay in the same way using Clench is. This would take out our necessity to rely on Destro/Resto as our survivability due to an increase in mobility would increase - the sorc community might actually shift to 2x Destro - and so we wouldn't be shield stacking as much because our kill power / mobility goes up but our defense goes down.

FYI, I am not a class rep :P.

I do think sorc suffers from it's reliance on hardened ward but doesn't have a defense that stam sorc can take advantage of (which impacts sorc tanks as a role in a way and doesnt fit in with the "play as you want" mentality ZOS wants to foster). The class needs a defense that can work pro-actively and pets need to be removed so they can properly adjust the class to make it a little flexible in the gear selection. I do love how crits dictate their healing as a unique function of the class, and definitely feel like ZOS can explore this further (maybe an AOE control mechanic that procs off crits, extra healing off crits, etc).

And while they have a better regen passive than templars (both cost reduction and regen while templars only have a small cost reduction), dark deal is harder to manage than siphoning strikes or DK's sustain via burning/poison/ultimate use in combat. But idk what do here because my salty templar butt is sad we only have cost reduction and a slottable resource skill that uses dead bodies or a skill that provide the same minor mag steal as a free cost ranged ability yet ours costs over 3k after cost reduction and is AOE cast around us lol.

Pets are strong and a lot of people play with it and like it.

ZoS need to intruce a dark magic dot that would make the proc the 10% health passive every 2s. Make it with the useless crystal blast morph or the garbage rune cage.

yea. Though in a way, id rather they remove all the pets from sorc, make a conjuration skilline and then add different types of utility/buffs for classes that want that RP value

Aedaryl

Minno wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

MalagenR wrote: »

@Joy_Division @Minno & Other Class Reps

The only feedback I would give about the Sorc Class is that due to the fact that gap closers do not have an increased cost while they are spammed Streak should not have an increased cost and should have it's stun duration increased to 2 seconds so that sitting in the stun is actually dangerous.

This would give us a reliable Lightning Direct Attack, that CC's, and provides mobility in small group, large group, and 1v1 scenarios with counter play.

Yes, Sorc would become much more mobile as people could streak away. But, I don't see this as being any different from the fact that NB's can cloak away. A ranged damage dealer should have significant mobility in a game where gap closers can be spammed and many of them come with a built in snare. The counterplay to me is obvious, if you're a stamDD or tankDD you'll need to have a snare on your bar or a poison on your weapon that will slow down streaking Sorc's in the same fashion that we need to bring either Magelight or Detect Pots when fighting NB's, etc.

Also, the damage is actually perfect where it's at and is one of our only lightning specific direct damage attacks. This is in line with the Sorcerer class - the Streak morph could have it's multiplicative cost removed when you take the morph while Bolt Escape could have it added so that Bolt Escape users cannot abuse the 2 second invuln window against other mag classes.

Streak has a cost of 3.2k which is reasonable and in-line with the Destructive Clench CC that we use now, meaning that using it as a Direct DD spammable in conjunction with Frags + Curse + Fury would be a legitimate combo that has real counterplay in the same way using Clench is. This would take out our necessity to rely on Destro/Resto as our survivability due to an increase in mobility would increase - the sorc community might actually shift to 2x Destro - and so we wouldn't be shield stacking as much because our kill power / mobility goes up but our defense goes down.

FYI, I am not a class rep :P.

I do think sorc suffers from it's reliance on hardened ward but doesn't have a defense that stam sorc can take advantage of (which impacts sorc tanks as a role in a way and doesnt fit in with the "play as you want" mentality ZOS wants to foster). The class needs a defense that can work pro-actively and pets need to be removed so they can properly adjust the class to make it a little flexible in the gear selection. I do love how crits dictate their healing as a unique function of the class, and definitely feel like ZOS can explore this further (maybe an AOE control mechanic that procs off crits, extra healing off crits, etc).

And while they have a better regen passive than templars (both cost reduction and regen while templars only have a small cost reduction), dark deal is harder to manage than siphoning strikes or DK's sustain via burning/poison/ultimate use in combat. But idk what do here because my salty templar butt is sad we only have cost reduction and a slottable resource skill that uses dead bodies or a skill that provide the same minor mag steal as a free cost ranged ability yet ours costs over 3k after cost reduction and is AOE cast around us lol.

Pets are strong and a lot of people play with it and like it.

ZoS need to intruce a dark magic dot that would make the proc the 10% health passive every 2s. Make it with the useless crystal blast morph or the garbage rune cage.

yea. Though in a way, id rather they remove all the pets from sorc, make a conjuration skilline and then add different types of utility/buffs for classes that want that RP value

What's ur platform ? Wanna show you my "RP value"

Chilly-McFreeze

Minno wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

MalagenR wrote: »

@Joy_Division @Minno & Other Class Reps

The only feedback I would give about the Sorc Class is that due to the fact that gap closers do not have an increased cost while they are spammed Streak should not have an increased cost and should have it's stun duration increased to 2 seconds so that sitting in the stun is actually dangerous.

This would give us a reliable Lightning Direct Attack, that CC's, and provides mobility in small group, large group, and 1v1 scenarios with counter play.

Yes, Sorc would become much more mobile as people could streak away. But, I don't see this as being any different from the fact that NB's can cloak away. A ranged damage dealer should have significant mobility in a game where gap closers can be spammed and many of them come with a built in snare. The counterplay to me is obvious, if you're a stamDD or tankDD you'll need to have a snare on your bar or a poison on your weapon that will slow down streaking Sorc's in the same fashion that we need to bring either Magelight or Detect Pots when fighting NB's, etc.

Also, the damage is actually perfect where it's at and is one of our only lightning specific direct damage attacks. This is in line with the Sorcerer class - the Streak morph could have it's multiplicative cost removed when you take the morph while Bolt Escape could have it added so that Bolt Escape users cannot abuse the 2 second invuln window against other mag classes.

Streak has a cost of 3.2k which is reasonable and in-line with the Destructive Clench CC that we use now, meaning that using it as a Direct DD spammable in conjunction with Frags + Curse + Fury would be a legitimate combo that has real counterplay in the same way using Clench is. This would take out our necessity to rely on Destro/Resto as our survivability due to an increase in mobility would increase - the sorc community might actually shift to 2x Destro - and so we wouldn't be shield stacking as much because our kill power / mobility goes up but our defense goes down.

FYI, I am not a class rep :P.

I do think sorc suffers from it's reliance on hardened ward but doesn't have a defense that stam sorc can take advantage of (which impacts sorc tanks as a role in a way and doesnt fit in with the "play as you want" mentality ZOS wants to foster). The class needs a defense that can work pro-actively and pets need to be removed so they can properly adjust the class to make it a little flexible in the gear selection. I do love how crits dictate their healing as a unique function of the class, and definitely feel like ZOS can explore this further (maybe an AOE control mechanic that procs off crits, extra healing off crits, etc).

And while they have a better regen passive than templars (both cost reduction and regen while templars only have a small cost reduction), dark deal is harder to manage than siphoning strikes or DK's sustain via burning/poison/ultimate use in combat. But idk what do here because my salty templar butt is sad we only have cost reduction and a slottable resource skill that uses dead bodies or a skill that provide the same minor mag steal as a free cost ranged ability yet ours costs over 3k after cost reduction and is AOE cast around us lol.

Pets are strong and a lot of people play with it and like it.

ZoS need to intruce a dark magic dot that would make the proc the 10% health passive every 2s. Make it with the useless crystal blast morph or the garbage rune cage.

yea. Though in a way, id rather they remove all the pets from sorc, make a conjuration skilline and then add different types of utility/buffs for classes that want that RP value

If you take away something so distinctive you better prepare for outrage. Or would you disagree that e.g. cloak is the reason people invested in nightblades? Take it away and see how that goes.

Emma_Overload

Jsmalls wrote: »

6 nerfs to Rune Cage, that seriously has to be some kind of record. Wasn't a big fan of the ability myself but damn.

The patch doesn't hit till the 28th for me, so I must ask the MagSorc mains (not the meta jumpers), how's MagSorc performing in competitive PvP? My guess is subpar like we were two patches ago with not enough damage to burst players, and not enough sustained damage to threaten players?

Crappy. I spend all my time testing weird, non-meta builds in a futile effort to make Sorc fun again. It doesn't help that everyone else is either a Nightblade who pops up out of nowhere and kills you in 2 seconds or some unkillable DK/Templar/Warden with 50K health.

Minno

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

MalagenR wrote: »

@Joy_Division @Minno & Other Class Reps

The only feedback I would give about the Sorc Class is that due to the fact that gap closers do not have an increased cost while they are spammed Streak should not have an increased cost and should have it's stun duration increased to 2 seconds so that sitting in the stun is actually dangerous.

This would give us a reliable Lightning Direct Attack, that CC's, and provides mobility in small group, large group, and 1v1 scenarios with counter play.

Yes, Sorc would become much more mobile as people could streak away. But, I don't see this as being any different from the fact that NB's can cloak away. A ranged damage dealer should have significant mobility in a game where gap closers can be spammed and many of them come with a built in snare. The counterplay to me is obvious, if you're a stamDD or tankDD you'll need to have a snare on your bar or a poison on your weapon that will slow down streaking Sorc's in the same fashion that we need to bring either Magelight or Detect Pots when fighting NB's, etc.

Also, the damage is actually perfect where it's at and is one of our only lightning specific direct damage attacks. This is in line with the Sorcerer class - the Streak morph could have it's multiplicative cost removed when you take the morph while Bolt Escape could have it added so that Bolt Escape users cannot abuse the 2 second invuln window against other mag classes.

Streak has a cost of 3.2k which is reasonable and in-line with the Destructive Clench CC that we use now, meaning that using it as a Direct DD spammable in conjunction with Frags + Curse + Fury would be a legitimate combo that has real counterplay in the same way using Clench is. This would take out our necessity to rely on Destro/Resto as our survivability due to an increase in mobility would increase - the sorc community might actually shift to 2x Destro - and so we wouldn't be shield stacking as much because our kill power / mobility goes up but our defense goes down.

FYI, I am not a class rep :P.

I do think sorc suffers from it's reliance on hardened ward but doesn't have a defense that stam sorc can take advantage of (which impacts sorc tanks as a role in a way and doesnt fit in with the "play as you want" mentality ZOS wants to foster). The class needs a defense that can work pro-actively and pets need to be removed so they can properly adjust the class to make it a little flexible in the gear selection. I do love how crits dictate their healing as a unique function of the class, and definitely feel like ZOS can explore this further (maybe an AOE control mechanic that procs off crits, extra healing off crits, etc).

And while they have a better regen passive than templars (both cost reduction and regen while templars only have a small cost reduction), dark deal is harder to manage than siphoning strikes or DK's sustain via burning/poison/ultimate use in combat. But idk what do here because my salty templar butt is sad we only have cost reduction and a slottable resource skill that uses dead bodies or a skill that provide the same minor mag steal as a free cost ranged ability yet ours costs over 3k after cost reduction and is AOE cast around us lol.

Pets are strong and a lot of people play with it and like it.

ZoS need to intruce a dark magic dot that would make the proc the 10% health passive every 2s. Make it with the useless crystal blast morph or the garbage rune cage.

yea. Though in a way, id rather they remove all the pets from sorc, make a conjuration skilline and then add different types of utility/buffs for classes that want that RP value

If you take away something so distinctive you better prepare for outrage. Or would you disagree that e.g. cloak is the reason people invested in nightblades? Take it away and see how that goes.

the world burns bright sometimes

Biro123

Some of the talk on streak, I think now doesn't go far enough.
The proposals are all around old meta's, where streak was barely enough to compete with stam gap-closing/sprint.

Now with the growing g popularity of swift jewellery, streak is quickly becoming all but useless as an escape tool.
I'm starting to think that it either needs a huge buff to mobility, and I mean huge (along the lines of combining the buffs from boundless into it, giving snare removal/immunity and losing the momentum loss at the end of it), or it needs to be focussed on something else entirely.

I can't see any buffs coming on the scale that's needed. Not with this community. All I can imagine is keeping bol as is and changing streak to something more offensive. In which case, bol will quickly become unused.

rafaelcsmaia

Imo these stupid nerfs pigeonhole everyone into cancer builds that carry themselves.

I am already farming my master axes to play as stamsorc next patch, plus viper, sloads (which was pathetically nerfed) and skoria, gotta jump on the salty tears bandwagon.

magsorc aint fun no more in pvp

Jsmalls

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

6 nerfs to Rune Cage, that seriously has to be some kind of record. Wasn't a big fan of the ability myself but damn.

The patch doesn't hit till the 28th for me, so I must ask the MagSorc mains (not the meta jumpers), how's MagSorc performing in competitive PvP? My guess is subpar like we were two patches ago with not enough damage to burst players, and not enough sustained damage to threaten players?

Crappy. I spend all my time testing weird, non-meta builds in a futile effort to make Sorc fun again. It doesn't help that everyone else is either a Nightblade who pops up out of nowhere and kills you in 2 seconds or some unkillable DK/Templar/Warden with 50K health.

@Emma_Overload

LoL! You're telling me.

I made a "dual wield" (actually 2 hander but the same concept as the old dual wield builds) MagSorc build with imbue weapons as the spammable, and using forward momentum on and off (I prefer Magelight, but sometimes the roots and snares get bad). It's average, it catches people off guard (like 5k crits from elemental weapon light attacks + enchant + status effect proc). But it certainly isn't Stronk. A curse, imbue, light attack frag, streak hits decently, but it's not really a good solo build because the damage isn't as high as I would like. But it is unique, and viable at a medium tier level haha. My big harp on it is there is no instant damage, when you use imbue you have to wait for the next gcd to use it when using melee weapons but it can hit in the same gcd as frags.

RebornV3x

Jsmalls wrote: »

6 nerfs to Rune Cage, that seriously has to be some kind of record. Wasn't a big fan of the ability myself but damn.

The patch doesn't hit till the 28th for me, so I must ask the MagSorc mains (not the meta jumpers), how's MagSorc performing in competitive PvP? My guess is subpar like we were two patches ago with not enough damage to burst players, and not enough sustained damage to threaten players?

I played a bit on PC just to see and once again sorc is mediocre at best not a bad as pre Summerset but compared to other classes like stam and mag blades its not good. The only reason to slot Rune Cage is if your in a zerg for small scale PvP and duels you'll probably want destructive reach instead. Once I get grand overload on my sorc soon I'm probably shelfing my sorc or becoming a PvP healer

Vixenator

gnarlyvandal wrote: »

1) Sorcerer pets are the ugliest things in this game (excluding the atronach). So much so that I HATE using them yet feel like I need to for the dps. Why so much effort for the warden bear but giving the Sorc pets design job to a 5 year old....

2) Where are the rest of the schools of magic?
(Edit: Real (2) Actually would rather a way to heal the Sorc without having to slot inner light and surge, all the other classes have a single slot ability. NB’s even help with their magicka sustain (siphoning strikes))

Pretty happy with how the rest of the Sorc kit is performing tbh. Number one would have been a new spammable but you guys gave us that in the psijic skill line

I also cant stand the way the pets look. The dumb dino (Barney) the demon monkey, the flying creature that looks like something out of WoW... really they all kinda look like something out of WoW. They look very childish and cartooney to me.

IlCanis_LupuslI

Jsmalls wrote: »

PvP

1. Mobility, Sorcs are known for their mobility, or at least are supposed to be. Roots and snares have been running rampant in PvP. Having a snare/root removal tied to a class ability would be a significant push towards giving Sorcs their mobility back. Boundless storm would probably be the most common target as the name fits and it currently offers little too synchronize with a MagSorc. It gives resistances that don't apply to our main defense, and damage that is laughable, only reason I slot it is to defensively proc Power Surge.
2. Shield Stacking. I'm a huge offender of this. I have 55k magicka on my bar and use hardened and harness as my only defense. I see a lot of complaints against this defense mechanism, but it is the worst scaling defense ability for multiple enemies. The damage creep and increased proc set usage is annihilating this as a defense mechanism. I enjoy having a unique defense mechanism, but I also understand the frustration. Damage shields also work VERY well with LOS. Which I fear will make them OP given more mobility. A rework of this defense mechanism is needed in my opinion, unfortunately I have no immediate answers as to how.


NON-Sorc related.

The tank meta in PvP needs to be dealt with. PvP is currently stack defensive mechanics (aka Health, Resistances, Impen, defensive sets) and running in a large group. And there is no counter short of doing the same. Ever run into a 5-8 man group of 27k+ Health Templars/DKs. You'll bash your head against a wall trying to pick that group apart.

Well with all the stun+high burst combos what do you expect? That people say "thank you" when they get triple dawnyd in medium armor and 20k health. With the constant power reel and the current meta of simultaneously dumping ults at the same time on 1-2 people. To even have a remote chance of surviving these cc+burst combos you need 27+k hp since the ccs are usually undodgable and even then it's a 30% survival chance at best. The "tank meta" is a exists because of the "ukti dump meta". It is remove the ulti dumps and the other will stop. Remove the tanking meta and people will just run bigger zergs for protection. @Jsmalls

Galarthor

People will always run big zergs unless running big zergs increases the likelihood of dying.

And the Tank meta is was started and is still caused by the stam NBs which can delivery insanely high burst from stealth. Since, unlike the sorc burst which announces itself in advance, this does not give you any advance warning time people will have to stack in high resis to survive the inial burst in order to even stand a chance of fighting back.

The second main reason for the heavy armor emta are ofc the zergs as heavy armor increases you chance of surviving the zerg ball. But the swarms won't go away unless the repercussions are greatly increased. It is basic swarm and/or pack mentallity that can also be found in nature.

Faint_One

For PVE
Both stam and Mag Sorc Lack a Class based Spammable skill like
Funnel(NBs)，Jabs(Temps)，Whip(DKs)，Racer(Wardens)

Better change Crystals？As we dont want a channeled stun because we have an undodgeable rune cage，and Fragments，no one use it without be proced，so a way to make this skill better，is change it base effect to be a passive，such as While you launch a fragment，gain empower etc.

and Curse，Dedric Prey 's needs to be 8s to combine well with scamp，and little bit damage increase while it explode delay.
I also hope its base skill add a effect before it explode，just because it is CURSE！！
That can be a way to resolve sustain problem or just get more support

Mage's Fury just too wake than other excute，but in PVP，that debuff makes a terrible excute line burst and always stole kill

Sustain problem might because dark deal hard to use in PVE
I have an interesting thought
make it cast instant，but it becomes summon a Crystal which restore your magicka/stamina after [X] second，the crystal can be destroy by players(makes it like interrupt as before)

Im not a pvp player so I could just talk some about pve，and consider a little of pvp balance

TY

Beardimus

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

6 nerfs to Rune Cage, that seriously has to be some kind of record. Wasn't a big fan of the ability myself but damn.

The patch doesn't hit till the 28th for me, so I must ask the MagSorc mains (not the meta jumpers), how's MagSorc performing in competitive PvP? My guess is subpar like we were two patches ago with not enough damage to burst players, and not enough sustained damage to threaten players?

Crappy. I spend all my time testing weird, non-meta builds in a futile effort to make Sorc fun again. It doesn't help that everyone else is either a Nightblade who pops up out of nowhere and kills you in 2 seconds or some unkillable DK/Templar/Warden with 50K health.

Amen sister

swirve

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

1. Sorcerer cannot sustain a light attack build. Even with orbs + ele drain + witchmothers, it's very, very difficult to not run out of magicka. Compare this to a magblade. They basically have infinite sustain with orbs + ele drain + witchmothers.

What a load of crap.

I can sustain a LA build with ele drain, witchmothers and trash pots all done by myself..

With orbs and some1else ele drain its a walk in the park.

Feanor

swirve wrote: »

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

1. Sorcerer cannot sustain a light attack build. Even with orbs + ele drain + witchmothers, it's very, very difficult to not run out of magicka. Compare this to a magblade. They basically have infinite sustain with orbs + ele drain + witchmothers.

What a load of crap.

I can sustain a LA build with ele drain, witchmothers and trash pots all done by myself..

With orbs and some1else ele drain its a walk in the park.

And you’re hitting 45k+ with that?

swirve

.

Kikke

swirve wrote: »

.

I say this dude is most likely a pet build heavy attack sorc, lol xD

Facefister

Stamsorc needs a spammable with a minor breach/fracture

Jsmalls

@Mangeli200194

Idk what to tell you about that honestly. Most high burst builds give up survivability (due to lower defense and sustain) on their character to get that kind of damage. While yes ulti dumping on 1-2 players should be frowned on in my opinion players can't be controlled in that manner. What can be done is giving better counters to ultimates. Which I believe a lot of ultimates already have good counters. For example... Soul assault you LoS/Block, Leap you are given a split second for the animation and you can block it, meteor you are given a huge opportunity to counter by CC opponent or blocking the meteor, destruction ultimate you are given 2 seconds and can manuver away from, just to name a few. Dawnbreaker being one of the ultimates that don't (instant high Aoe damage tied to a stun with no warning and passive weapon damage increase is pretty OP).

But by creating clear counters to ultimates it becomes, I react this way to survive versus I stack this much health and use no part of my own skill to survive. That's my harp on the matter.