ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Sorcerers:
- Sorcs want frag to stun. What about a new Crystal Blast proc which ccs but doesn’t deal bonus damage? Could reduce the damage of the base ability and increase the damage of Crystal Frag’s proc to avoid the “high damage ability having a stun” issue
[...]- One example was Crystal Frags need to be brought up to level of Assassin’s Will
cpuScientist wrote: »I've seen alot of quick fixes to tide people over.
Right now the glaring issue in PvP is sloads and cage, both have been looked at and that is great.
In PvE however the glaring issue is complete and total Nightblade DPS dominance. They have the best sustain, the highest damage, and the best self heals. Access to beserk meaning they barely need healers. They are simultaneously the safest class with their self heals, the strongest class with DPS, and easiest to sustain on. Now the rotation to get the maximum amount of DPS is somewhat difficult. But a static rotation is about 2k less and completely trashes other classes difficult rotations, so honestly magBlade is very easy to DPS on and very easy to survive on and sustain on.
I do not want to see nighrBlades get nerfed. But sorcs DK Warden and Templar be brought up to par.
This has been started with Templar and gee whiz that's great, they can be an alternative to stamBlades. Not as good but in the park perhaps, after the testing is done.
The biggest issue right now with sorc DPS however is not getting touched. Sustain sustain SUSTAIN. A Sorc cannot do a 3 million without near drying up. Or actually drying up. Forget a 6 million. A Sorc has no real good damage ulti outside atro, which is really not liked in many trials and just any mobile fight in general. Because it us stationary stunnable gets in the way of tanks.
Pet Sorcs are dead, and even when they were sub meta they were dead. Just no way to use them in so many fights that it became a meh, look at my parse more than a practical use. Further they were boring.
Lightning damage is back to being useless vs fire.
Many things make the Sorc just very bad in PvE. At the very least can we get a touch of sustain. Perhaps when a Sorc concusses enimies it gets back X Magicka. Or something that won't transfer over well to PvP.
And please free us from bound armor. It's active skill is tank based. But it is stuck on dps bars. Get it off of our bars or makw it's active skill useful in pve. I vote for just making the 8% broken out and put in some passive. Like Nightblade TBH. For Pete's sake we don't have room for our execute.
DO SOMETHING SMALL NOW SO THAT WHEN YOU DO ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING ITS NOT DRASTIC. TEST FROM NOW WITH SUSTAIN AND SMALL PERCENTAGE CHANGES SO LATER ITS NOT JUST THROW EVERYTHING AND SEE WHAT WORKS. THANK YOU!!!
My latest pain point?
Getting asked to please log in my meh geared magblade for progression runs instead of my totally golded and BiS magsorc I did trials with, for years.
cpuScientist wrote: »I've seen alot of quick fixes to tide people over.
Right now the glaring issue in PvP is sloads and cage, both have been looked at and that is great.
In PvE however the glaring issue is complete and total Nightblade DPS dominance. They have the best sustain, the highest damage, and the best self heals. Access to beserk meaning they barely need healers. They are simultaneously the safest class with their self heals, the strongest class with DPS, and easiest to sustain on. Now the rotation to get the maximum amount of DPS is somewhat difficult. But a static rotation is about 2k less and completely trashes other classes difficult rotations, so honestly magBlade is very easy to DPS on and very easy to survive on and sustain on.
I do not want to see nighrBlades get nerfed. But sorcs DK Warden and Templar be brought up to par.
This has been started with Templar and gee whiz that's great, they can be an alternative to stamBlades. Not as good but in the park perhaps, after the testing is done.
The biggest issue right now with sorc DPS however is not getting touched. Sustain sustain SUSTAIN. A Sorc cannot do a 3 million without near drying up. Or actually drying up. Forget a 6 million. A Sorc has no real good damage ulti outside atro, which is really not liked in many trials and just any mobile fight in general. Because it us stationary stunnable gets in the way of tanks.
Pet Sorcs are dead, and even when they were sub meta they were dead. Just no way to use them in so many fights that it became a meh, look at my parse more than a practical use. Further they were boring.
Lightning damage is back to being useless vs fire.
Many things make the Sorc just very bad in PvE. At the very least can we get a touch of sustain. Perhaps when a Sorc concusses enimies it gets back X Magicka. Or something that won't transfer over well to PvP.
And please free us from bound armor. It's active skill is tank based. But it is stuck on dps bars. Get it off of our bars or makw it's active skill useful in pve. I vote for just making the 8% broken out and put in some passive. Like Nightblade TBH. For Pete's sake we don't have room for our execute.
DO SOMETHING SMALL NOW SO THAT WHEN YOU DO ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING ITS NOT DRASTIC. TEST FROM NOW WITH SUSTAIN AND SMALL PERCENTAGE CHANGES SO LATER ITS NOT JUST THROW EVERYTHING AND SEE WHAT WORKS. THANK YOU!!!
ChiknAriseMcFro wrote: »All of you complaining that sorcs need this or that are doing it wrong. Pay attention in BGs. Sorcs have the highest kills and lowest deaths. From my perspective the class needs balanced out. Being able to pin someone down and blow them up before said person can pull both triggers is ludacris and broken. But yeah, lets buff the class because it clearly needs it.
ChiknAriseMcFro wrote: »All of you complaining that sorcs need this or that are doing it wrong. Pay attention in BGs. Sorcs have the highest kills and lowest deaths. From my perspective the class needs balanced out. Being able to pin someone down and blow them up before said person can pull both triggers is ludacris and broken. But yeah, lets buff the class because it clearly needs it.
Illuvatarr wrote: »Played a Mag sorc four years ago. Literally just got back into this game.
The class has an overpowered ability in rune cage. Its stupid. Its unfair. This does not compensate for its severe shortcomings relative to stamina builds. It is a horrible bandaid attempt at making the class viable in open field pvp without addressing the core superiority of stamina over magicka. This is the only game I know where a dps statistic also functions as the primary survival statistic. Surely, the developers must have noted this and how it would imbalance the game after giving more upfront burst damage to the survival statistic over the dps statistic. To compound matters, medium armor delivers higher survivability than light.
The rest of the sorcerer class doesn't stack up in pvp. No survivability, delayed burst and inability to sustain versus stamina builds.
That being said, it shines in zerg battles when no one is paying attention to you (melt people from far away when they arent paying attention) and it performs well on keep battles where melee classes cannot get to you. (the inability of the class to build distance even with speed potions is comical).
The irony is that it used to be the other way around. I am building a stamina set now for my sorcerer as the game mechanics have changed . The performance and ease of killing people with a stamina build (I am in full yellow cp 160 gear and I regularly get killed by nightblades/bow users from stealth before I can even react) is comical.
I am not sure what the developers of this game are thinking other than wanting magicka to be a support stat for stamina builds (or they don't know how to balance the two stats as stamina has an inherent advantage (as stated earlier) as it is attached to higher protective gear and cross functions as the primary dodge/block stat so you just need to stack it on your stamina build). Game is completely different than it used to be.
cpuScientist wrote: »
Yeah that constant yo-yo of hey Stam is good. Nahhhhhh psyche it's bad. JK it's good. NOPE HAHA you suck again. Nah but seriously it's good. NOOOOOOPE it sucks.
Relying on sets sooo hard to do all it's damage. From VMA daggers the maelsteom bow staple, relyquen all the penetration sets necessary. It is fake it is just so BAAAD.
IMO stamMelee should be highest dps follwed by magMelee then mag ranged. But keep them close enough for an all ranged to be fine and dandy the safest route. But fastedt clears possible be with melee. Because no matter what always need range. Melee can almost only ever be so many slots. Then rank the interDPS like the melee by easiest to sustain and survive on have slightly worst to hardest rotation and difficulty sustain has slightly better.
But this is SORC THREAD SO SORRY.
BUFF SORC SUSTAIN. DELETE RUNE CAGE.
Ya are we not gonna address that magicka sorcs are being excluded from end game content,?
Yeah. Most progression guilds demand absurd DPS parses nowadays (minimum 40-45k), which can be achieved by magblades and... that's it. Yes, there's the odd youtuber using 3M dummy, Lover stone, Zaan (!!!) and other cheese tricks that can achieve that damage, but that's an exercise of futility, no real guild lets you use cheese tricks in real content.
Stamina DPS? No, because in trials they are gimped.
Magicka? Only NBs because they set the standard.
Magsorcs? Used 1 out of 8 DPS for progression content. YAY!
Well, looking at the half full glass, in progression trials:
- 7 NBs
- 1 Magsorc
- 0 (DPS) Templar
- 0 (DPS) DK
So we should be "happier" than the last two...
cpuScientist wrote: »
Yeah that constant yo-yo of hey Stam is good. Nahhhhhh psyche it's bad. JK it's good. NOPE HAHA you suck again. Nah but seriously it's good. NOOOOOOPE it sucks.
Relying on sets sooo hard to do all it's damage. From VMA daggers the maelsteom bow staple, relyquen all the penetration sets necessary. It is fake it is just so BAAAD.
IMO stamMelee should be highest dps follwed by magMelee then mag ranged. But keep them close enough for an all ranged to be fine and dandy the safest route. But fastedt clears possible be with melee. Because no matter what always need range. Melee can almost only ever be so many slots. Then rank the interDPS like the melee by easiest to sustain and survive on have slightly worst to hardest rotation and difficulty sustain has slightly better.
But this is SORC THREAD SO SORRY.
BUFF SORC SUSTAIN. DELETE RUNE CAGE.
cpuScientist wrote: »
Yeah that constant yo-yo of hey Stam is good. Nahhhhhh psyche it's bad. JK it's good. NOPE HAHA you suck again. Nah but seriously it's good. NOOOOOOPE it sucks.
Relying on sets sooo hard to do all it's damage. From VMA daggers the maelsteom bow staple, relyquen all the penetration sets necessary. It is fake it is just so BAAAD.
IMO stamMelee should be highest dps follwed by magMelee then mag ranged. But keep them close enough for an all ranged to be fine and dandy the safest route. But fastedt clears possible be with melee. Because no matter what always need range. Melee can almost only ever be so many slots. Then rank the interDPS like the melee by easiest to sustain and survive on have slightly worst to hardest rotation and difficulty sustain has slightly better.
But this is SORC THREAD SO SORRY.
BUFF SORC SUSTAIN. DELETE RUNE CAGE.
What about ranged stam? Should they be in been melee mag and ranged mag?
cpuScientist wrote: »
Yeah that constant yo-yo of hey Stam is good. Nahhhhhh psyche it's bad. JK it's good. NOPE HAHA you suck again. Nah but seriously it's good. NOOOOOOPE it sucks.
Relying on sets sooo hard to do all it's damage. From VMA daggers the maelsteom bow staple, relyquen all the penetration sets necessary. It is fake it is just so BAAAD.
IMO stamMelee should be highest dps follwed by magMelee then mag ranged. But keep them close enough for an all ranged to be fine and dandy the safest route. But fastedt clears possible be with melee. Because no matter what always need range. Melee can almost only ever be so many slots. Then rank the interDPS like the melee by easiest to sustain and survive on have slightly worst to hardest rotation and difficulty sustain has slightly better.
But this is SORC THREAD SO SORRY.
BUFF SORC SUSTAIN. DELETE RUNE CAGE.
In balanced games like WoW, mages have insane amount of CC's slows and roots infinite mobility the best kiting abilities the best defensive cooldown ingame and great burst dps potential while melee's have bigger sustained dps output.
Now in ESO when i streak i spend 2500 magica, when i streak again i spend 50% more. My 8th streak costs 18k or something? Well let me tell you that i have no ability to slow a stamina enemy that whines on forums and keeps gapclosing me with 2k stam cost + slow and no cost increase.
Rune cage is fine, i dont use it and i have 0 issues on countering it. Perhaps you should L2P and get some information about other stuns like fear+ fossilize that is the best of all.
PS
Before you talk about range, fear has a ranged morph and fossilize dont need to be ranged since dk's are melee class.
I am mostly a PvPer. I don't play sorcs, so these will be my two pain points playing against them:
(1) Overtuned pet sorcs. Playing solo against a pet sorc using Shackle or Imperial Physique + Necropotence is next to impossible. Their shields are too strong and they do too much damage. With Daedric Prey, Force Pulse and Soul Assault, you cannot even counter them as a flappy DK. They don't depend on Frags.
I tried a pet sorc in PvE with a non-optimized build and being completely uncoordinated / having no proper rotation. The damage output was ridiculously high compared to my other classes (see my sig). Of course, I am not speaking from a trials perspective, but from the perspective of someone running PvP builds.
(2) The inability to judge how much damage you do against them. Their health does not move, since they are shielded, and since they are shield stacking, their shields typically hold at all times. This could be mitigated by showing an extended health bar that includes shields or other UI enhancements.
cpuScientist wrote: »cpuScientist wrote: »
Yeah that constant yo-yo of hey Stam is good. Nahhhhhh psyche it's bad. JK it's good. NOPE HAHA you suck again. Nah but seriously it's good. NOOOOOOPE it sucks.
Relying on sets sooo hard to do all it's damage. From VMA daggers the maelsteom bow staple, relyquen all the penetration sets necessary. It is fake it is just so BAAAD.
IMO stamMelee should be highest dps follwed by magMelee then mag ranged. But keep them close enough for an all ranged to be fine and dandy the safest route. But fastedt clears possible be with melee. Because no matter what always need range. Melee can almost only ever be so many slots. Then rank the interDPS like the melee by easiest to sustain and survive on have slightly worst to hardest rotation and difficulty sustain has slightly better.
But this is SORC THREAD SO SORRY.
BUFF SORC SUSTAIN. DELETE RUNE CAGE.
What about ranged stam? Should they be in been melee mag and ranged mag?
Yeah I purposely left them out cause. They are in a precarious position now aren't they. Obviously higher risk than mag range and difficult to sustain on. But they are niche and not the best build for said classes, as those classes have a way to get higher DPS by going melee. Like a range magDK, doable but they were meant for melee so should they pull magSorc numbers from range? Its that kind of thing IMO. So I don't know. I want them to be a thing. I think a ranges stamBlade could be really good and I've seen good numbers out of them. But they are stigma bound lol.
I don't know that would have to be a discussion. My current answer would probably be less, except for certain classes that could pull equal. But not more than mag sorcs/blades.
Septimus_Magna wrote: »I am mostly a PvPer. I don't play sorcs, so these will be my two pain points playing against them:
(1) Overtuned pet sorcs. Playing solo against a pet sorc using Shackle or Imperial Physique + Necropotence is next to impossible. Their shields are too strong and they do too much damage. With Daedric Prey, Force Pulse and Soul Assault, you cannot even counter them as a flappy DK. They don't depend on Frags.
I tried a pet sorc in PvE with a non-optimized build and being completely uncoordinated / having no proper rotation. The damage output was ridiculously high compared to my other classes (see my sig). Of course, I am not speaking from a trials perspective, but from the perspective of someone running PvP builds.
(2) The inability to judge how much damage you do against them. Their health does not move, since they are shielded, and since they are shield stacking, their shields typically hold at all times. This could be mitigated by showing an extended health bar that includes shields or other UI enhancements.
1) pet sorcs only work in small scale fights, I agree they are annoying to fight but thats mainly because the sorc can hide behind his pets which makes it hard to hit him. I think pets would be easier to balance if they were medium-long duration summons that could not be targetted or killed (like NB shade). That would also make pet sorc build more viable in trails.
I dont understand how you do ridiculous high dmg with a pet sorc in PVE if you're used to a stam DK or magicka NB, both classes should deal a lot more dps. Magicka NB is top of the food chain for magicka DDs and pet sorc is probably bottom with magicka Warden.
2) You can turn on out-going dmg (settings>combat) so you see how much dmg you do against the target, if the dmg is shielded you'll see the number between brackets. Some add-ons also give a more clear indication of how much shield is left.
So its been 10 pages of feedback and what did we get in 4.1 patch ? Mage's Fury fixed to be dodgeable, Rune Cage damage reverted (which wasnt even the main issue with this skill) oh and Overload heavy attacks proc enchantments now (who even uses this outside of roleplaying as Sidius?)
Is it really necessary to have a Sorcerer representative to fix 2 bugs and revert 1 change every 4 months?
Two “bug fixes” and a nerf. This program is a pathetic joke.
Meanwhile, if you’re a nightblade:
- You can dodge sloads
- You can cloak sloads
- You can dodge wrath
- Cage won’t damage you
- You can see people with detect pots and mage light. So you know exactly when to leap to your shade.
- You have to drink a pot and wait an extra second for incap to stun. But it still does everything on the menu. And we’re still working on reducing that cost Nerf further...
Dear ZOS. You can’t possibly be serious about this patch. That is all.
So its been 10 pages of feedback and what did we get in 4.1 patch ? Mage's Fury fixed to be dodgeable, Rune Cage damage reverted (which wasnt even the main issue with this skill) oh and Overload heavy attacks proc enchantments now (who even uses this outside of roleplaying as Sidius?)
Is it really necessary to have a Sorcerer representative to fix 2 bugs and revert 1 change every 4 months?
There is so much truth this about this garbage program here.
The hilarious alternative is going back to the devs NOT listening to any of us, how has *that* worked so far?