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More transparency about dmg in dungeon?
LeagueTroll
✭✭✭✭✭
We all know combat metric exist. But as a trial tank player who legit do no dmg. Combat metric only tell me the group dps, and my own dps which is like 2k. I would really appreciate more transparency, i’d like to see dmg % of everyone, including the healer, with rolling windows of a minute or something like it. I don’t think this would be a lot of work for the devs. What you guys think?
More transparency about dmg in dungeon? 460 votes
Yes, add dps % meter
34%
159 votes
No, don’t add meter
56%
258 votes
Don’t know / care
9%
43 votes
4
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disintegr8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No, don’t add meterThe only issue in a group is whether the group can get the job done and you do not need to know what damage everyone else is doing.
I would see this as given people another excuse to harass and kick people who don;t live up to your expectations. I'd also suggest that there would be people who will question your ability - only because they think you could/should do more.Australian on PS4 NA server.
Everyone's entitled to an opinion.67 -
ResTandRespeC✭✭✭✭Yes, add dps % meterdisintegr8 wrote: »The only issue in a group is whether the group can get the job done and you do not need to know what damage everyone else is doing.
I would see this as given people another excuse to harass and kick people who don;t live up to your expectations. I'd also suggest that there would be people who will question your ability - only because they think you could/should do more.
People will do that with or without it. Some people can just be lame. Nature of the world unfortunately.Edited by ResTandRespeC on July 12, 2018 10:32PM7 -
essi2✭✭✭✭✭
✭No, don’t add meterThe ability for addons to do this was removed for a reason."The Heritance are racists yes? Idiots. But dangerous, destabilizing racist idiots." - Razum-dar
"Wood Elves aren't made of wood, Sea Elves aren't made of water. M'aiq still wonders about High Elves" - M'aiq the Liar
** Leyawiin Layabouts (PC-EU) - Leyawiin Layabouts (PC-NA) **
*** https://www.youtube.com/@essi2 - https://www.twitch.tv/essi2 ***36 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, don’t add meterThere used to be add-ons that did this. That ability got removed because it was abused by people to be jerks to other players perceived as not pulling their weight. ZOS isn't going to re-enable something that was used for griefing in the past.
People. We're why we cant have nice things.Edited by VaranisArano on July 12, 2018 10:58PM52 -
Tyrobag✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No, don’t add meterThis used to be possible, but the functionality was blocked by ZoS because its invasive as heck. If somebody wants to tell you their dps they'll post it. The only thing that something like that does is breed extra toxicity that we don't need.26 -
generalmyrick✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes, add dps % meterI've always wondered how my dps was compared to my partner...
It would encourage me to work harder."The red pill and its opposite, the blue pill, are a popular cultural meme, a metaphor representing the choice between:
Knowledge, freedom, uncertainty and the brutal truths of reality (red pill)
Security, happiness, beauty, and the blissful ignorance of illusion (blue pill)"
Insight to Agree to Awesome Ratio = 1:6.04:2.76 as of 1/25/2019
Compared to people that I've ignored = I am 18% more insightful, 20% less agreeable, and 88% more awesome.3 -
redspecter23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I would like a dps meter added, though ZOS has no intention of doing that. It can be helpful to see that you're doing 2500 dps and the other guy is doing 45k. You might think you're doing fine as the mobs are all melting, but actually seeing the numbers is a great wake up call.
An opt in system might work best but would still pose problems with those that feel pressured to opt in. It's not like we don't have dps benchmarks for vet trials anyway. The transparency this would provide could be a benefit.7 -
Judas Helviaryn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭No, don’t add metergeneralmyrick wrote: »I've always wondered how my dps was compared to my partner...
It would encourage me to work harder.
So ask..
The system was used to grief and harass other players, it's not needed.17 -
Ananoriel✭✭✭No, don’t add meterI think it is only fun to see your own dps/percentage as in Combat Metrics, because you can learn that for yourself on how to improve if you want to. And you can still tell others about your dps if you want to. But seeing from other people in your group, when they maybe don't want to share it? Nah. I am afraid that people will kick each other from dungeons because their dps is not high enough or even harass them for it.13 -
crjs1✭✭✭✭✭No, don’t add meterPlease god no... there is already too much griefing in dungeons and trials this would lead to just more abuse and turn off newer players and learners.13 -
bareheiny✭✭✭✭✭No, don’t add meterThe scorecard is one of the primary things I don't miss.
On the other hand, I wouldn't mind being able to see my own DPS against the group average. Assuming there wasn't a way for others to weaponise the information against those they percieve to be underperforming.Edited by bareheiny on July 12, 2018 11:44PM5 -
logarifmik✭✭✭✭✭
✭No, don’t add meterSome players are too obsessed with numbers.EU PC: @logarifmik | Languages: Русский, English
Dimitri Frernis | Breton Sorcerer | Damage Dealer | Daggerfall Covenant
Scales-of-Ice | Argonian Warden | Tank / Healer | Daggerfall Covenant15 -
Facefister✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes, add dps % meter
Those numbers decide whether you're able to complete or fail the ecounter. Witchcraft!logarifmik wrote: »Some players are too obsessed with numbers.5 -
Merlin13KAGL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭- Group DPS is the only DPS that matters.
- You already have a pretty good idea who's doing alright and who needs a bit of help.
- Every single individual can look at their own Combat Metrics and see the % of the DPS they're doing. 1/8th is a little over 12%. Anything above that is bonus.
- Place the focus on this and you can forget about people stopping to rez, moving out of the red, interrupts, call outs, or doing much of anything but their rotation.
But you're already aware of all these things.Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...
Earn it.
IRL'ing for a while for assorted reasons, in forum, and in game.I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS17 -
logarifmik✭✭✭✭✭
✭No, don’t add meter
I don't discard the numbers completely. I just say that there are also other things to consider, like knowledge about boss mechanics and overall DD survability. Dead DD deals 0 DPS. It's not that simple, you see.Facefister wrote: »
Those numbers decide whether you're able to complete or fail the ecounter. Witchcraft!logarifmik wrote: »Some players are too obsessed with numbers.EU PC: @logarifmik | Languages: Русский, English
Dimitri Frernis | Breton Sorcerer | Damage Dealer | Daggerfall Covenant
Scales-of-Ice | Argonian Warden | Tank / Healer | Daggerfall Covenant13 -
SakuraRush✭✭✭Only if we can find a way to measure people being out of position. Or standing in red. Or ignoring the direction the tank has the boss facing.
And when it's all over a giant neon sign pops up over the heads of folks to inform everyone that they are the sole reason the raid was a success, or failure.
Obvious hyperbole aside it's this type of thing that leads people to take a game way too serious and treat other people like crap over said game.7 -
OmniDo✭✭✭✭✭Yes, add dps % meterThe fact is, many players dont want their own mediocrity on display, or their sub-optimal efforts criticized.
DPS meters are irrelevant in normal dungeons, with the exception perhaps of a few DLC dungeons.
But in Veteran dungeons, a DPS meter could quickly identify incompetence and/or ineptitude, which would allow segregation.
To be blunt, if someone lacks the skill to meet a challenge and I have a choice of not participating with them, then I'd like to be aware of those circumstances so that I can make that choice accurately and promptly.
Theres nothing improper about a measuring stick.
Participation Trophies are NOT a good idea, nor have they ever been.
Knowledge without effort is laziness, and effort without knowledge is waste.8 -
logarifmik✭✭✭✭✭
✭No, don’t add meter
In the middle of XX century there were people in Europe who reasoned in a very similar way. Just kidding, but this joke is partially truth. Also, comrade @Merlin13KAGL already put it briefly and clearly.The fact is, many players dont want their own mediocrity on display, or their sub-optimal efforts criticized.
DPS meters are irrelevant in normal dungeons, with the exception perhaps of a few DLC dungeons.
But in Veteran dungeons, a DPS meter could quickly identify incompetence and/or ineptitude, which would allow segregation.
To be blunt, if someone lacks the skill to meet a challenge and I have a choice of not participating with them, then I'd like to be aware of those circumstances so that I can make that choice accurately and promptly.
Theres nothing improper about a measuring stick.
Participation Trophies are NOT a good idea, nor have they ever been.
Knowledge without effort is laziness, and effort without knowledge is waste.Merlin13KAGL wrote: »- Group DPS is the only DPS that matters.
- You already have a pretty good idea who's doing alright and who needs a bit of help.
- Every single individual can look at their own Combat Metrics and see the % of the DPS they're doing. 1/8th is a little over 12%. Anything above that is bonus.
- Place the focus on this and you can forget about people stopping to rez, moving out of the red, interrupts, call outs, or doing much of anything but their rotation.
Edited by logarifmik on July 13, 2018 2:29AMEU PC: @logarifmik | Languages: Русский, English
Dimitri Frernis | Breton Sorcerer | Damage Dealer | Daggerfall Covenant
Scales-of-Ice | Argonian Warden | Tank / Healer | Daggerfall Covenant2 -
Kuwhar✭✭✭✭No, don’t add meterThe fact is, many players dont want their own mediocrity on display, or their sub-optimal efforts criticized.
DPS meters are irrelevant in normal dungeons, with the exception perhaps of a few DLC dungeons.
But in Veteran dungeons, a DPS meter could quickly identify incompetence and/or ineptitude, which would allow segregation.
To be blunt, if someone lacks the skill to meet a challenge and I have a choice of not participating with them, then I'd like to be aware of those circumstances so that I can make that choice accurately and promptly.
Theres nothing improper about a measuring stick.
Participation Trophies are NOT a good idea, nor have they ever been.
Knowledge without effort is laziness, and effort without knowledge is waste.
Your premise seems logical, however i think you portray it as a clear cut issue.
This tool wont only be used to determine whether a run can be successful, that is the best case.
Worst case is: "someone is 5k below some arbitrary dps benchmark, kick him because its going to take 5 extra minutes for the entire dungeon"
Its simply not going to be a benefit overall.10 -
PlagueSD✭✭✭✭✭
✭No, don’t add meterThe fact is, many players dont want their own mediocrity on display, or their sub-optimal efforts criticized.
DPS meters are irrelevant in normal dungeons, with the exception perhaps of a few DLC dungeons.
But in Veteran dungeons, a DPS meter could quickly identify incompetence and/or ineptitude, which would allow segregation.
To be blunt, if someone lacks the skill to meet a challenge and I have a choice of not participating with them, then I'd like to be aware of those circumstances so that I can make that choice accurately and promptly.
Theres nothing improper about a measuring stick.
Participation Trophies are NOT a good idea, nor have they ever been.
Knowledge without effort is laziness, and effort without knowledge is waste.
Don't know about you, but I'd much rather have a DPS that can only pull 15K dps, but survive the whole fight over someone that can do 50K dps but dies in 30 seconds.
public DPS meters just bring out all the elitists. It's bad enough already without giving them even more ammo.24 -
Kel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, don’t add meterGames that have this functionality are toxic as anything.
No way it needs to be a part of this game again.
It didn't work out well when this was possible. Why do you think it will be any different now?
No thanks.7 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes, add dps % meterYou can calculate team DPS pretty easily.
Just figure out what your DPS% is as part of an optimised group. If it's higher than that, it means your teammates are potatoes.
I had a vet pledge once where I was dealing 86% of team damage. Suffice it to say, we didn't have a good time. The other DD thought it was sufficient to just light attack (this was before Summerset).Edited by MLGProPlayer on July 13, 2018 2:44AM2 -
kylewwefan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes, add dps % meterI dont know to the level you’re getting at, but on console, you got no clue how much doing. I could see it being used to grieve, and that’s not cool.
When playing with other high DPS players and everything just flipping melts so fast you can’t tell what the heck is going on....well even then it probably turns into bragging rights n wat not.
On second thaught maybe they shouldn’t add that in.1 -
Conduit0✭✭✭✭✭
✭I find it odd how other games manage to have DPS meters that everyone can see and not cause the kind of rampant griefing everyone is talking about. Of course I've also never run into players that were so blatantly not ready for the content they queued for or people marked as damage dealers who couldn't DPS their way out of a paper bag in other games either. I can't help but think these things may be related.4 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭iirc FTC did have a method to see the damage of others in the party that also used FTC and opted to share their information. In the end idk if Zos closed off the ability to share that information. It was not accessible without it being volunteered.
Many of us started using combat metrics partially because we got more information that was worthy and important information.
Regardless, it is not need. CM provides easy means for someone to link they damage in chat and few will just automatically provide that information to anyone and everyone regardless of how good they do. In other games my parsing was only shared with guild raid groups.Edited by idk on July 13, 2018 3:00AM0 -
LeagueTroll✭✭✭✭✭Yes, add dps % meterMLGProPlayer wrote: »You can calculate team DPS pretty easily.
Just figure out what your DPS% is as part of an optimised group. If it's higher than that, it means your teammates are potatoes.
I had a vet pledge once where I was dealing 86% of team damage. Suffice it to say, we didn't have a good time. The other DD thought it was sufficient to just light attack (this was before Summerset).
Only if you are a dd though. I play tank most.
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