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More transparency about dmg in dungeon?

  • Grabmoore
    Grabmoore
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    No, don’t add meter
    Grabmoore wrote: »
    Facefister wrote: »
    logarifmik wrote: »
    Some players are too obsessed with numbers.
    Those numbers decide whether you're able to complete or fail the ecounter. Witchcraft!

    No they are not. There are next to no damage checks in this game. The only I could think of are trial bosses.

    Implementing percentages only adds toxicity. People already can share their numbers via add ons (console doesn't matter anyways). I do 45k+ on magicka and still don't want this added. It's just bad and we should be happy to live without it.

    You are supporting denying information to the tank and healer. And yes there are lots of dps checks, just most can be done with a 40k group dps. You know who is doing what dmg don’t mean tank and healer have a clue. Keep tank and healer in the dark is not fair. If tank and healer are getting judged on, so should all the dd.

    Uhm, that's what I meant. Why judge people at all, if content is easy enough anyways?
    I don't support blaming tanks nor healers. This should not happen either. If it actually happens, no dps meter would change this.

    You are free to ask the DDs to post dps, but I don't get what this could achieve besides throwing more weapons in the mosh pit.
    EU - PC - Ebonheart Pact
    Iggy Grabmoore - Argonian Magicka Templar | Nyctasha - Redguard Stamina Nightblade
    Do-Ra'Zhar - Khajiit Stamina DK | Ashmedi - Dunmer Magicka DK
    Vanya Darchow - AD Altmer Magicka Sorc | Malek gro'Kash - Orc Stam Sorc
    GM of "Handelshaus von Riften" - Trading & PvX Community
  • LeagueTroll
    LeagueTroll
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    Yes, add dps % meter
    Grabmoore wrote: »
    Grabmoore wrote: »
    Facefister wrote: »
    logarifmik wrote: »
    Some players are too obsessed with numbers.
    Those numbers decide whether you're able to complete or fail the ecounter. Witchcraft!

    No they are not. There are next to no damage checks in this game. The only I could think of are trial bosses.

    Implementing percentages only adds toxicity. People already can share their numbers via add ons (console doesn't matter anyways). I do 45k+ on magicka and still don't want this added. It's just bad and we should be happy to live without it.

    You are supporting denying information to the tank and healer. And yes there are lots of dps checks, just most can be done with a 40k group dps. You know who is doing what dmg don’t mean tank and healer have a clue. Keep tank and healer in the dark is not fair. If tank and healer are getting judged on, so should all the dd.

    Uhm, that's what I meant. Why judge people at all, if content is easy enough anyways?
    I don't support blaming tanks nor healers. This should not happen either. If it actually happens, no dps meter would change this.

    You are free to ask the DDs to post dps, but I don't get what this could achieve besides throwing more weapons in the mosh pit.

    Right, do nothing about tank and healer being judged, and say ‘why judge at all’.
  • Bobby_V_Rockit
    Bobby_V_Rockit
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    Yes, add dps % meter
    Grabmoore wrote: »
    Grabmoore wrote: »
    Facefister wrote: »
    logarifmik wrote: »
    Some players are too obsessed with numbers.
    Those numbers decide whether you're able to complete or fail the ecounter. Witchcraft!

    No they are not. There are next to no damage checks in this game. The only I could think of are trial bosses.

    Implementing percentages only adds toxicity. People already can share their numbers via add ons (console doesn't matter anyways). I do 45k+ on magicka and still don't want this added. It's just bad and we should be happy to live without it.

    You are supporting denying information to the tank and healer. And yes there are lots of dps checks, just most can be done with a 40k group dps. You know who is doing what dmg don’t mean tank and healer have a clue. Keep tank and healer in the dark is not fair. If tank and healer are getting judged on, so should all the dd.

    Uhm, that's what I meant. Why judge people at all, if content is easy enough anyways?
    I don't support blaming tanks nor healers. This should not happen either. If it actually happens, no dps meter would change this.

    You are free to ask the DDs to post dps, but I don't get what this could achieve besides throwing more weapons in the mosh pit.

    Right, do nothing about tank and healer being judged, and say ‘why judge at all’.

    Why do the tank and healer NEED to know dps? Is the boss/mob dying? Y/N
  • kargen27
    kargen27
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    I was originally going to post this type of tool would be fine with me so long as players could opt out and not have their DPS shown. Opting out though would cause players accusing other players of having something to hide, otherwise they would post their DPS. So I changed my mind while typing my message and started over. Decided probably this is a very bad idea.

    Then halfway through typing the above I changed my mind again and decided this could be a good tool to have but should only be available in preformed groups. The tool would be disabled with random groups.
    and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."
  • EvilAutoTech
    EvilAutoTech
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    No, don’t add meter
    As someone who mains a tank and is learning to heal, I don't really need to know how high the dps is. My review is something like this:

    Did we clear the dungeon/trial?

    Could I have prevented deaths or made the run easier if I had done a better job?

    Did I learn anything that could make the next run smoother?

    Did I make any new friends?

    If we cleared the dungeon/trial, the dps was adequate. It doesn't matter to me if one dd did 45k and another did 5k or if they both did 25k.
  • LeagueTroll
    LeagueTroll
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    Yes, add dps % meter
    Grabmoore wrote: »
    Grabmoore wrote: »
    Facefister wrote: »
    logarifmik wrote: »
    Some players are too obsessed with numbers.
    Those numbers decide whether you're able to complete or fail the ecounter. Witchcraft!

    No they are not. There are next to no damage checks in this game. The only I could think of are trial bosses.

    Implementing percentages only adds toxicity. People already can share their numbers via add ons (console doesn't matter anyways). I do 45k+ on magicka and still don't want this added. It's just bad and we should be happy to live without it.

    You are supporting denying information to the tank and healer. And yes there are lots of dps checks, just most can be done with a 40k group dps. You know who is doing what dmg don’t mean tank and healer have a clue. Keep tank and healer in the dark is not fair. If tank and healer are getting judged on, so should all the dd.

    Uhm, that's what I meant. Why judge people at all, if content is easy enough anyways?
    I don't support blaming tanks nor healers. This should not happen either. If it actually happens, no dps meter would change this.

    You are free to ask the DDs to post dps, but I don't get what this could achieve besides throwing more weapons in the mosh pit.

    Right, do nothing about tank and healer being judged, and say ‘why judge at all’.

    Why do the tank and healer NEED to know dps? Is the boss/mob dying? Y/N

    Because dd can see if tank and healer are bad. Tank and healer should have the right to see if dd are bad too.
  • Breelyn
    Breelyn
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    No, don’t add meter
    No, no, no. My days of having my gear, weapon and DPS checked are over. I played that MMO...or rather several MMO's for years and I want no part of that scene anymore.

    If you want that much transparency join a guild that focuses on trial runs. I hear some of them are pretty hardcore and expect screen shots of your damage output on test dummies.
  • adeptusminor
    adeptusminor
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    Yes, add dps % meter
    Bad dps costs me literal money because I'm required to click more on my mouse (lifetime of 20 million clicks), so I'm going to start sending invoices to all the bad dps I meet in pug vet dungeons tyvm.
  • DocFrost72
    DocFrost72
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    Don’t know / care
    DocFrost72 wrote: »
    Chrysa1is wrote: »
    Adding this would introduce more toxicity. If you are in a group with elitists, they will kick you for not doing what they deem as enough damage.

    So what is the correct threshold of not enough damage? Should you not kick a person who is 10k just because another guy is carrying by doing 50k? Is that fair?

    If the requirement to finish the dungeon is 20k dps (group) and you pull 10.1k dps, it is my belief that you are pulling your weight. You may well disagree.

    What if the requirement is 60k, would you kick 10k player when someone is doing 50k?

    Yes and it has nothing to do with being compared to someone at 50k. That is exactly the wrong reason to do so.

    Which dungeon has a 60k group dps check?
  • Bobby_V_Rockit
    Bobby_V_Rockit
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    Yes, add dps % meter
    Grabmoore wrote: »
    Grabmoore wrote: »
    Facefister wrote: »
    logarifmik wrote: »
    Some players are too obsessed with numbers.
    Those numbers decide whether you're able to complete or fail the ecounter. Witchcraft!

    No they are not. There are next to no damage checks in this game. The only I could think of are trial bosses.

    Implementing percentages only adds toxicity. People already can share their numbers via add ons (console doesn't matter anyways). I do 45k+ on magicka and still don't want this added. It's just bad and we should be happy to live without it.

    You are supporting denying information to the tank and healer. And yes there are lots of dps checks, just most can be done with a 40k group dps. You know who is doing what dmg don’t mean tank and healer have a clue. Keep tank and healer in the dark is not fair. If tank and healer are getting judged on, so should all the dd.

    Uhm, that's what I meant. Why judge people at all, if content is easy enough anyways?
    I don't support blaming tanks nor healers. This should not happen either. If it actually happens, no dps meter would change this.

    You are free to ask the DDs to post dps, but I don't get what this could achieve besides throwing more weapons in the mosh pit.

    Right, do nothing about tank and healer being judged, and say ‘why judge at all’.

    Why do the tank and healer NEED to know dps? Is the boss/mob dying? Y/N

    Because dd can see if tank and healer are bad. Tank and healer should have the right to see if dd are bad too.

    If mobs or bosses arent dying, DPS are bad
  • jcm2606
    jcm2606
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    Don’t know / care
    I'm on the fence about something like this. On the one hand, something like this could help tremendously, both in pinpointing where the group is lacking in terms of damage, and giving the player who's falling behind a push to better themselves. On the other hand, I can see how something like this could be abused, and would further worsen players' opinions on PUG runs.

    In a perfect world, I would absolutely agree. Something like this should be added, particularly in veteran content where your performance as an individual does matter; normal dungeons are so easy you can clear them with 15k group DPS, I've done it before when running random normals on a level 15 PVP character, and normal trials dilute the group's DPS so much that if you're only pulling 5k DPS, the other guys pulling 20-30k DPS or above can carry you.

    Alas, we don't live in a perfect world, so I'm voting "don't know".
    Edited by jcm2606 on July 14, 2018 4:32AM
  • Milvan
    Milvan
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    Yes, add dps % meter
    It would be great feature because for newplayers because they would be able to see and compare if they are hitting reasonable numbers or not.

    Tho casual-solo-elder-scrolls-offline-forum-warriors would never support this idea.
    “Kings of the land and the sky we are; proud gryphons.” Stalker stands, the epitome of pride. Naked and muscular, his wings widen and his feet dig in as if he alone holds down the earth and supports the heavens, keeping the two ever separate.”
    Gryphons guild - @Milvan,
  • Varana
    Varana
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    No, don’t add meter
    Milvan wrote: »
    It would be great feature because for newplayers because they would be able to see and compare if they are hitting reasonable numbers or not.

    But if it's about your results, you can already do that with Combat Metrics or similar addons. If you're a DD and get 10% of damage done in a 4-man group, chances are that you're somewhat underperforming. So for that, calling for such a functionality is only really useful on console.

    This topic is about something different.
  • VaranisArano
    VaranisArano
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    No, don’t add meter
    Milvan wrote: »
    It would be great feature because for newplayers because they would be able to see and compare if they are hitting reasonable numbers or not.

    Tho casual-solo-elder-scrolls-offline-forum-warriors would never support this idea.

    Thats more what target dummies are for and why many guilds provide them in their guild houses as a place where you can privately practice and see your DPS.

    Its not like ZOS is preventing newbies from learning their own DPS.

    ZOS is preventing other people from learning the newbie's exact DPS without their consent and using that knowledge to help them or grief them. Sure, it prevent some people from helping than, but ZOS is rightfully concerned with the griefing potential ( which already happened when we had the ability with add-ons).
  • Agenericname
    Agenericname
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    No, don’t add meter
    ArchMikem wrote: »
    If the base game had a feature to tell the group the exact DPS of every member during a fight, players would stop kicking others based on a rough perception of how the fight is going, and instead use the numbers to do it, and they'd pick a base number for convenience. If any player that doesn't pull 25k+ will get kicked, no buts. Even if the player did 23k, they'll still get kicked cause they're still technically not good enough for the others.

    At least now, if the fight isn't burned but the DPS still does consistent damage and stays alive/does mechanics, their actual parse doesn't matter and the group will continue. But if you give players a way to know exact numbers, there will be much more kicking and then Dungeon Pledges will never get done cause not everyone is pulling god tier deeps.

    Much more kicking is good
    . The current system, tank who lose taunt often, who miss block 1shot heavy attack get kicked. Healer who can’t keep tank alive get kicked (this can be due to newbie tank). And you tell me dd should not be judged at all? This is only making tank and healer underprivileged.

    Don’t say short que, if healer and tank need to reque rather than kick and finish. Short que give tank and healer little benefit.
    sdtlc wrote: »
    If you are running with someone considered friend/partner, they mostly will share their number, if not ...¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    Don't use this argument for you're cause, you simply want to either brag about your performance or blame the other dd for failing.

    Yes, i do want to blame at least 1 of the dd for failing when dps checks were not met. The meter can help me pin point which one. So i do not mistakenly kick the better player.

    That's why we don't have one.
  • Juju_beans
    Juju_beans
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    Sounds like a tool to be used for exclusion.
  • Grabmoore
    Grabmoore
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    No, don’t add meter
    Grabmoore wrote: »
    Grabmoore wrote: »
    Facefister wrote: »
    logarifmik wrote: »
    Some players are too obsessed with numbers.
    Those numbers decide whether you're able to complete or fail the ecounter. Witchcraft!

    No they are not. There are next to no damage checks in this game. The only I could think of are trial bosses.

    Implementing percentages only adds toxicity. People already can share their numbers via add ons (console doesn't matter anyways). I do 45k+ on magicka and still don't want this added. It's just bad and we should be happy to live without it.

    You are supporting denying information to the tank and healer. And yes there are lots of dps checks, just most can be done with a 40k group dps. You know who is doing what dmg don’t mean tank and healer have a clue. Keep tank and healer in the dark is not fair. If tank and healer are getting judged on, so should all the dd.

    Uhm, that's what I meant. Why judge people at all, if content is easy enough anyways?
    I don't support blaming tanks nor healers. This should not happen either. If it actually happens, no dps meter would change this.

    You are free to ask the DDs to post dps, but I don't get what this could achieve besides throwing more weapons in the mosh pit.

    Right, do nothing about tank and healer being judged, and say ‘why judge at all’.

    Why do the tank and healer NEED to know dps? Is the boss/mob dying? Y/N

    Because dd can see if tank and healer are bad. Tank and healer should have the right to see if dd are bad too.

    You just want a tool to blame others. That's just wrong. You don't fight toxicity with toxicity.

    Equip 5 pieces of "Don't care" and finish the dungeon. Kicking and shaming are NEVER an option.
    EU - PC - Ebonheart Pact
    Iggy Grabmoore - Argonian Magicka Templar | Nyctasha - Redguard Stamina Nightblade
    Do-Ra'Zhar - Khajiit Stamina DK | Ashmedi - Dunmer Magicka DK
    Vanya Darchow - AD Altmer Magicka Sorc | Malek gro'Kash - Orc Stam Sorc
    GM of "Handelshaus von Riften" - Trading & PvX Community
  • JJBoomer
    JJBoomer
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    No, don’t add meter
    This. Is. A. Game. Still right? Or did ESO form a professional league im not aware of. If you want to know you have the numbers, form your own private group.

    Don't punish peolle who pug because you're too lazy to find people that can guarentee you a completion. Jfc its not rocket science.
  • zaria
    zaria
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    No, don’t add meter
    Grabmoore wrote: »
    Grabmoore wrote: »
    Facefister wrote: »
    logarifmik wrote: »
    Some players are too obsessed with numbers.
    Those numbers decide whether you're able to complete or fail the ecounter. Witchcraft!

    No they are not. There are next to no damage checks in this game. The only I could think of are trial bosses.

    Implementing percentages only adds toxicity. People already can share their numbers via add ons (console doesn't matter anyways). I do 45k+ on magicka and still don't want this added. It's just bad and we should be happy to live without it.

    You are supporting denying information to the tank and healer. And yes there are lots of dps checks, just most can be done with a 40k group dps. You know who is doing what dmg don’t mean tank and healer have a clue. Keep tank and healer in the dark is not fair. If tank and healer are getting judged on, so should all the dd.

    Uhm, that's what I meant. Why judge people at all, if content is easy enough anyways?
    I don't support blaming tanks nor healers. This should not happen either. If it actually happens, no dps meter would change this.

    You are free to ask the DDs to post dps, but I don't get what this could achieve besides throwing more weapons in the mosh pit.

    Right, do nothing about tank and healer being judged, and say ‘why judge at all’.

    Why do the tank and healer NEED to know dps? Is the boss/mob dying? Y/N

    Because dd can see if tank and healer are bad. Tank and healer should have the right to see if dd are bad too.
    Yes its easy to see if healer and tank is bad, however its tempting to focus more on dps as healer if smooth run.
    Now as healer it can be hard to see who is the weak dps if both has an decent rotation and far to often its the junk dd who initiate kick especially if high cp.
    Still its an pretty marginal issue,
    Grinding just make you go in circles.
    Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.
  • MakoFore
    MakoFore
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    u can get addo ons for u and ur team to share
  • Sevn
    Sevn
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    No, don’t add meter
    No we dont need elitists critiquing everyone anymore than they already do...in fact its done way to much now. People should just play the game and stop worrying about being the best at it. You want to be the best at something be the best at something important, not a video game.

    In my younger years I was so gunho about bragging about my epeen. Now? I just can't be bothered to put so much effort into something so utterly meaningless for me. Having said that, I don't begrudge anyone that does and don't participate in content I can't pull my own weight in.
    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man, true nobility is being superior to your former self
    -Hemingway
  • Trinity_Is_My_Name
    Trinity_Is_My_Name
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    No, don’t add meter
    No, don't want to see anyone's DPS and don't want others to be able to see my DPS.

    If people want to know each others DPS there are a few addons that do this but all in group must have it and it must be turned on by each member. One such addon is Group Damage IIRC. I think FTC has this as well but not certain since I haven't used FTC in a very long time.
  • Nifty2g
    Nifty2g
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    Yes, add dps % meter
    Casuals will call it elitist regardless cause their low performance will be seen and they can’t cruise by or fake parses

    But we all know for progression reasons in an end game group why this would be a fantastic addon
    Edited by Nifty2g on July 14, 2018 6:54PM
    #MOREORBS
  • coop500
    coop500
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    No, don’t add meter
    disintegr8 wrote: »
    The only issue in a group is whether the group can get the job done and you do not need to know what damage everyone else is doing.

    I would see this as given people another excuse to harass and kick people who don;t live up to your expectations. I'd also suggest that there would be people who will question your ability - only because they think you could/should do more.

    Pretty much this.
    Wishing for Lilmothiit race still! Or maybe Lilmothiit companion?
  • LeagueTroll
    LeagueTroll
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    Yes, add dps % meter
    ArchMikem wrote: »
    If the base game had a feature to tell the group the exact DPS of every member during a fight, players would stop kicking others based on a rough perception of how the fight is going, and instead use the numbers to do it, and they'd pick a base number for convenience. If any player that doesn't pull 25k+ will get kicked, no buts. Even if the player did 23k, they'll still get kicked cause they're still technically not good enough for the others.

    At least now, if the fight isn't burned but the DPS still does consistent damage and stays alive/does mechanics, their actual parse doesn't matter and the group will continue. But if you give players a way to know exact numbers, there will be much more kicking and then Dungeon Pledges will never get done cause not everyone is pulling god tier deeps.

    Much more kicking is good
    . The current system, tank who lose taunt often, who miss block 1shot heavy attack get kicked. Healer who can’t keep tank alive get kicked (this can be due to newbie tank). And you tell me dd should not be judged at all? This is only making tank and healer underprivileged.

    Don’t say short que, if healer and tank need to reque rather than kick and finish. Short que give tank and healer little benefit.
    sdtlc wrote: »
    If you are running with someone considered friend/partner, they mostly will share their number, if not ...¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    Don't use this argument for you're cause, you simply want to either brag about your performance or blame the other dd for failing.

    Yes, i do want to blame at least 1 of the dd for failing when dps checks were not met. The meter can help me pin point which one. So i do not mistakenly kick the better player.

    That's why we don't have one.

    To protect the feelings of free loaders who judge tank and healer yet don’t want to be judged, sure.
  • LeagueTroll
    LeagueTroll
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    Yes, add dps % meter
    Grabmoore wrote: »
    Grabmoore wrote: »
    Grabmoore wrote: »
    Facefister wrote: »
    logarifmik wrote: »
    Some players are too obsessed with numbers.
    Those numbers decide whether you're able to complete or fail the ecounter. Witchcraft!

    No they are not. There are next to no damage checks in this game. The only I could think of are trial bosses.

    Implementing percentages only adds toxicity. People already can share their numbers via add ons (console doesn't matter anyways). I do 45k+ on magicka and still don't want this added. It's just bad and we should be happy to live without it.

    You are supporting denying information to the tank and healer. And yes there are lots of dps checks, just most can be done with a 40k group dps. You know who is doing what dmg don’t mean tank and healer have a clue. Keep tank and healer in the dark is not fair. If tank and healer are getting judged on, so should all the dd.

    Uhm, that's what I meant. Why judge people at all, if content is easy enough anyways?
    I don't support blaming tanks nor healers. This should not happen either. If it actually happens, no dps meter would change this.

    You are free to ask the DDs to post dps, but I don't get what this could achieve besides throwing more weapons in the mosh pit.

    Right, do nothing about tank and healer being judged, and say ‘why judge at all’.

    Why do the tank and healer NEED to know dps? Is the boss/mob dying? Y/N

    Because dd can see if tank and healer are bad. Tank and healer should have the right to see if dd are bad too.

    You just want a tool to blame others. That's just wrong. You don't fight toxicity with toxicity.

    Equip 5 pieces of "Don't care" and finish the dungeon. Kicking and shaming are NEVER an option.

    There is still a fundamental difference with ‘other can’t accurately judge me’ and ‘I don’t care how others judge me’. If you have no suggestions protest newbie tank, i say it’s only fair all dd get judged too.

  • DuskMarine
    DuskMarine
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    No, don’t add meter
    no
  • LadyNalcarya
    LadyNalcarya
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    Yes, add dps % meter
    Varana wrote: »
    Milvan wrote: »
    It would be great feature because for newplayers because they would be able to see and compare if they are hitting reasonable numbers or not.

    But if it's about your results, you can already do that with Combat Metrics or similar addons. If you're a DD and get 10% of damage done in a 4-man group, chances are that you're somewhat underperforming. So for that, calling for such a functionality is only really useful on console.

    This topic is about something different.

    Addons are irrelevant, they arent available on 2 of 3 platforms.
    Dro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason

    PC/EU
  • ZeroXFF
    ZeroXFF
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    Yes, add dps % meter
    As someone who mains a tank I would love to see that to know who to ress in vCoS when I'm the last one alive and the boss is at 10%. I can only use my ulti so often to keep blocking while ressing, and I don't want to waste my time on a 15k DD when I can get up the 30k one.
  • Facefister
    Facefister
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    ✭✭
    Yes, add dps % meter
    What's the legit reason for not having a tool which further helps group composition and gameplay? "Toxicity" and "elitism" are no proper reasons. I want to hear proper reasons why we shouldn't have that.
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