More transparency about dmg in dungeon?

LeagueTroll

Yes, add dps % meter

Grabmoore wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

It would be a great way to figure out who's the fake DPS.

Do you realize that "fake dps" depends on who the other dps is. For some the guy pulling less than 50k dps might be the fake dps. For others it might be that guy pulling less than 60k dps.

It is all in the eye of the beholder.

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Transparency is always a good thing. If the L33Ts want to use it as the end all be all thats fine. Atleast people without add ons can finally have a true way to figure out their dps

Based on your comment I am assuming you are on console since it would not make sense to not want to use combat metrix to see your damage on PC but want Zos to add something to the base UI to share your DPS with everyone in the group.

Zos has already chosen to not share damage between players. They have confirmed this since and have only allowed it in the very specific situation I already stated. It seems players are ignoring this which means no one in this thread really has an interest in making this happen.

How many 60k dps people are using group finder? And why a pug healer and tank would kick a 50k dps dd? Let's not forget that a group kick requires 3 votes.
Also, why are you guys trying to exagerrate it harder and harder every page? First 50k, then 60k. It's gonna be 100k when we reach 10th page I guess. I wonder why healers and tanks don't wanna queue in group finder if there's so many awesome dds.
No one in their right mind would kick a 50k dps dd if he's not a complete idiot. If anything, that dd will probably get a ton of friend requests after using group finder.

Yeah, thats kinda ridiculous. I'm more concerned about people kicking the DDs because they are doing 10-15k DPS instead of 20k+ DPS on content that doesn't require 20k+ DPS. Or the DD doing 20k DPS when the group wants 25k or 30k DPS even though that's not required to complete the content. I think those are far more likely scenarios.

Or as the ZOS commentary I linked above indicated, they were concerned that a bad parse might lead to someone being kicked who could otherwise perform up to snuff for the content.

Yes, content also don’t require healer for healing ppl in red or use any orbs. And ofc you get ppl complain about those.

Healer often get kicked by garb dd (most likely the ones do 10k dps) even when perform up to standard. This system make healer underprivileged.

If healers are underprivileged it's because of their role, not because they don't have access to the damage information of other players.

If people are blaming the healer for not healing them through this, a meter wouldn't change that. That meter isn't going to magically move them.

Simply reject the vote.

A meter will clearly give dd less privilege. It gives group more reasons to kick bad dd who claims healer is bad. Instead of “healer’s fault”, it becomes clear “10k dd’s fault adds got out of hand”.

This is just wrong. Noone should get kicked. At this point I'd rather support the removal of the votekick feature.

Seriously, what's wrong with your groups? Maybe, get friends?

Non should get kicked. Time to see a lot more fake healer and fale tank.

Merlin13KAGL

It takes three votes to kick.

it takes one to leave and requeue.

What is your time worth to you if you feel the group is ill equipped?

Merlin13KAGL

The trick to passing any group content is to figure out what needs to happen differently as a group. It's rarely just one thing or just one individual.

Even when it is, there are usually multiple ways the rest of the group can assist. Not carry, but assist. (Different method, location, which mechanics overview, skills recommendations, etc)

LeagueTroll

Yes, add dps % meter

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

The trick to passing any group content is to figure out what needs to happen differently as a group. It's rarely just one thing or just one individual.

Even when it is, there are usually multiple ways the rest of the group can assist. Not carry, but assist. (Different method, location, which mechanics overview, skills recommendations, etc)

Why should I spend extra effort on them when they would not spend 5 min learn a proper rotation? I am not against playing with inexperienced dd / healer or even tank partner for vmol vhof. Every one gotta learn mechanics somewhere. Teach ppl how to do a rotation is just way too much.

Vanthras79

No, don’t add meter

This could be avoided if you just run with guildies *wink wink*

josiahva

No, don’t add meter

No thanks, we have enough elitism in this game already...trial groups are already as elitist as they come...we dont need to encourage that type of behavior further.

idk

LeagueTroll wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

Chrysa1is wrote: »

Adding this would introduce more toxicity. If you are in a group with elitists, they will kick you for not doing what they deem as enough damage.

So what is the correct threshold of not enough damage? Should you not kick a person who is 10k just because another guy is carrying by doing 50k? Is that fair?

If the requirement to finish the dungeon is 20k dps (group) and you pull 10.1k dps, it is my belief that you are pulling your weight. You may well disagree.

What if the requirement is 60k, would you kick 10k player when someone is doing 50k?

Which dungeon has a 60k group dps check?

Falkreath hold, bloodroot forge

They do not have a 60k dps check even on HM. High DPS obviously helps but a group that does it right and can handle mechanics trumps great DPS.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Yes, add dps % meter

Sure it's been said, but at one point we had addons that would let you spy on other's DPS. The forums exploded with cry babies who felt it was an invasion of privacy or some nonsense. In their defense, i suppose, it did result in a lot of group kicks. There are a few addons that do allow for DPS sharing, but they need to be installed by everyone.

exeeter702

Grabmoore wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

It would be a great way to figure out who's the fake DPS.

Do you realize that "fake dps" depends on who the other dps is. For some the guy pulling less than 50k dps might be the fake dps. For others it might be that guy pulling less than 60k dps.

It is all in the eye of the beholder.

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Transparency is always a good thing. If the L33Ts want to use it as the end all be all thats fine. Atleast people without add ons can finally have a true way to figure out their dps

Based on your comment I am assuming you are on console since it would not make sense to not want to use combat metrix to see your damage on PC but want Zos to add something to the base UI to share your DPS with everyone in the group.

Zos has already chosen to not share damage between players. They have confirmed this since and have only allowed it in the very specific situation I already stated. It seems players are ignoring this which means no one in this thread really has an interest in making this happen.

How many 60k dps people are using group finder? And why a pug healer and tank would kick a 50k dps dd? Let's not forget that a group kick requires 3 votes.
Also, why are you guys trying to exagerrate it harder and harder every page? First 50k, then 60k. It's gonna be 100k when we reach 10th page I guess. I wonder why healers and tanks don't wanna queue in group finder if there's so many awesome dds.
No one in their right mind would kick a 50k dps dd if he's not a complete idiot. If anything, that dd will probably get a ton of friend requests after using group finder.

Yeah, thats kinda ridiculous. I'm more concerned about people kicking the DDs because they are doing 10-15k DPS instead of 20k+ DPS on content that doesn't require 20k+ DPS. Or the DD doing 20k DPS when the group wants 25k or 30k DPS even though that's not required to complete the content. I think those are far more likely scenarios.

Or as the ZOS commentary I linked above indicated, they were concerned that a bad parse might lead to someone being kicked who could otherwise perform up to snuff for the content.

Yes, content also don’t require healer for healing ppl in red or use any orbs. And ofc you get ppl complain about those.

Healer often get kicked by garb dd (most likely the ones do 10k dps) even when perform up to standard. This system make healer underprivileged.

If healers are underprivileged it's because of their role, not because they don't have access to the damage information of other players.

If people are blaming the healer for not healing them through this, a meter wouldn't change that. That meter isn't going to magically move them.

Simply reject the vote.

A meter will clearly give dd less privilege. It gives group more reasons to kick bad dd who claims healer is bad. Instead of “healer’s fault”, it becomes clear “10k dd’s fault adds got out of hand”.

This is just wrong. Noone should get kicked.

LeagueTroll

Yes, add dps % meter

idk wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

Chrysa1is wrote: »

Adding this would introduce more toxicity. If you are in a group with elitists, they will kick you for not doing what they deem as enough damage.

So what is the correct threshold of not enough damage? Should you not kick a person who is 10k just because another guy is carrying by doing 50k? Is that fair?

If the requirement to finish the dungeon is 20k dps (group) and you pull 10.1k dps, it is my belief that you are pulling your weight. You may well disagree.

What if the requirement is 60k, would you kick 10k player when someone is doing 50k?

Which dungeon has a 60k group dps check?

Falkreath hold, bloodroot forge

They do not have a 60k dps check even on HM. High DPS obviously helps but a group that does it right and can handle mechanics trumps great DPS.

Post cmx screenshot that you finished vbrf with sub 60k group dps then.

Edit: hm btw

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Yes, add dps % meter

LeagueTroll wrote: »

idk wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

Chrysa1is wrote: »

Adding this would introduce more toxicity. If you are in a group with elitists, they will kick you for not doing what they deem as enough damage.

So what is the correct threshold of not enough damage? Should you not kick a person who is 10k just because another guy is carrying by doing 50k? Is that fair?

If the requirement to finish the dungeon is 20k dps (group) and you pull 10.1k dps, it is my belief that you are pulling your weight. You may well disagree.

What if the requirement is 60k, would you kick 10k player when someone is doing 50k?

Which dungeon has a 60k group dps check?

Falkreath hold, bloodroot forge

They do not have a 60k dps check even on HM. High DPS obviously helps but a group that does it right and can handle mechanics trumps great DPS.

Post cmx screenshot that you finished vbrf with sub 60k group dps then.

Edit: hm btw

VBRF HM with less than 60k group DPS would definitely be a rough go, and would frankly take a little RNG for good placement of the lava pools, but I do think it would be technically possible.

That said, a fight with basically 3 enemies stacked on top of one another shouldn’t be that hard to achieve group DPS of 60k. And if you cant you probably shouldn’t be attempting one of the harder 4 man fights in the game.

alainjbrennanb16_ESO

No, don’t add meter

what u all are forgetting is the new law about personal data, it could result in law suits, i know there is still add ons like loot spy there and soon there will be a test case about them, zos will probs not risk it

Bodži

Yes, add dps % meter

I don't like meter but some checks should be in place for some dungeons.

So in order for you to join certain dungeon you need to have certain CP level for all roles and then:
DPS - certain damage achievements on previous/easier dungeons.
Healer - certain healing achievements on previous/easier dungeons.
Tank - certain taunt/survivability achievements on previous/easier dungeons.

Guppet

Yes, add dps % meter

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

what u all are forgetting is the new law about personal data, it could result in law suits, i know there is still add ons like loot spy there and soon there will be a test case about them, zos will probs not risk it

lol this is in no way related to GDPR. nice try though.

essi2

No, don’t add meter

@alainjbrennanb16_ESO

GDPR only applies to things that are legally defined as personal information.

Loot and DPS are not personal information in the RL definition of personal information.

alainjbrennanb16_ESO

No, don’t add meter

essi2 wrote: »

@alainjbrennanb16_ESO

GDPR only applies to things that are legally defined as personal information.

Loot and DPS are not personal information in the RL definition of personal information.

thats at the mo, like i said there will be a test case, when some decides since they pay sub they class it as personal data since they are paying for a sub, i never said it was, i said it could result in law suits if someone decides that it is personal data, and since the world is becoming a law suit for anything, its not a question if, but when someone tries this,

Doctordarkspawn

Yes, add dps % meter

Simply put: Add it for vet dungeons.

If you cannot pull your weight, do not queue for vet. This is not elitism, this is basic courtasey.

Whatever insane logic you think gives you the right to be carried reguardless of circumstance, and makes a feature designed for this purpose to be 'immortal' is wrong, and you are immoral for demanding you be carried.

Guppet

Yes, add dps % meter

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

essi2 wrote: »

@alainjbrennanb16_ESO

GDPR only applies to things that are legally defined as personal information.

Loot and DPS are not personal information in the RL definition of personal information.

thats at the mo, like i said there will be a test case, when some decides since they pay sub they class it as personal data since they are paying for a sub, i never said it was, i said it could result in law suits if someone decides that it is personal data, and since the world is becoming a law suit for anything, its not a question if, but when someone tries this,

There could be a lawsuit for anything. You can’t build a game around random possibilities.

There could just as easily be a lawsuit for people who post with no capital letters. Best stay safe ey

Guppet

Yes, add dps % meter

I think a tracker that says your and overall along with a guide. Something like.

Your dps is 19,500, group is 44,000. Recommended for this dungeon is 30,000.

No more than that. No blaming individuals. But gives you what you need while saying what the dungeon should need.

Then no one can say this dungeon needs 30k each. It says why you need. If your doing 20k as a group but it needs 40 you all know it’s not going to happen.

Console needs this badly. We have nothing like this now, we just have to watch players and that can get far more personal.

Mr_Walker

People should have to pass a written exam before they can do Vet dungeons.

Taonnor

Yes, add dps % meter

If you need a "Damage done" / "Healing done" shared between group members, lurk here -> https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/425816/taos-group-tools

idk

LeagueTroll wrote: »

idk wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

Chrysa1is wrote: »

Adding this would introduce more toxicity. If you are in a group with elitists, they will kick you for not doing what they deem as enough damage.

So what is the correct threshold of not enough damage? Should you not kick a person who is 10k just because another guy is carrying by doing 50k? Is that fair?

If the requirement to finish the dungeon is 20k dps (group) and you pull 10.1k dps, it is my belief that you are pulling your weight. You may well disagree.

What if the requirement is 60k, would you kick 10k player when someone is doing 50k?

Which dungeon has a 60k group dps check?

Falkreath hold, bloodroot forge

They do not have a 60k dps check even on HM. High DPS obviously helps but a group that does it right and can handle mechanics trumps great DPS.

Post cmx screenshot that you finished vbrf with sub 60k group dps then.

Edit: hm btw

???? Does not make sense, but ok. I guess I must take into account the @name since that probably puts comments into perspective.

zaria

No, don’t add meter

Mr_Walker wrote: »

People should have to pass a written exam before they can do Vet dungeons.

Vet coa1, fungal1, wayrest 1 is easier than newer normal dlc. Yes part is also be that quality of players in vet is higher.

Still bring back my old idea of the undaunted academy. This would be an very practical exam, think short dragonstar arena with you and 3 npc facing various enemies and standard boss tactics. Normal gives an skill point, vet is required for solo queue for vet pledges. Have healer and tank qualification to. have an HM for achievement and for tank or healer training.

Jeremy

No, don’t add meter

Facefister wrote: »

logarifmik wrote: »

Some players are too obsessed with numbers.

Those numbers decide whether you're able to complete or fail the ecounter. Witchcraft!

You don't need a "DPS meter" to figure out if you'are able to complete or fail the encounter. You can figure that out on your own when you engage the encounter and either complete or fail it.

DPS meters actually increase the chances you are going to fail at an encounter. It will encourage players to ignore "mechanics" or raising other players to inflate their numbers as much as possible so as to avoid being shamed. And don't tell me that doesn't happen. Because it does.

All one has to do is look at how people use CP levels on this game to shame and kick other players. They would use DPS meters to do the same. It would also be detrimental to gameplay. This is a game supposedly built on the idea of build diversity and allowing players to create their own unique character. DPS meters would encourage everyone who plays a DPS character to copy-paste what ever build does the most damage.

Ultimately this is a video game and is meant to be fun and enjoyable. It's not a test to see who can score the highest on a DPS score. Players who crave that sort of competitive testing should really think about channeling that energy into something more productive instead of ridiculously bothering role players on a video game who play primarily to have fun.

efster

No, don’t add meter

Having standards for other players' performance is 1000% on the standards-haver, not the other players. If you can't relax and enjoy the PUG experience in all its "you never know what you're gonna get" glory, maybe just don't PUG. I wouldn't queue for a vBRF if you paid me, HM or no.

aetherial_heavenn

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

idk wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

Chrysa1is wrote: »

Adding this would introduce more toxicity. If you are in a group with elitists, they will kick you for not doing what they deem as enough damage.

So what is the correct threshold of not enough damage? Should you not kick a person who is 10k just because another guy is carrying by doing 50k? Is that fair?

If the requirement to finish the dungeon is 20k dps (group) and you pull 10.1k dps, it is my belief that you are pulling your weight. You may well disagree.

What if the requirement is 60k, would you kick 10k player when someone is doing 50k?

Which dungeon has a 60k group dps check?

Falkreath hold, bloodroot forge

They do not have a 60k dps check even on HM. High DPS obviously helps but a group that does it right and can handle mechanics trumps great DPS.

Post cmx screenshot that you finished vbrf with sub 60k group dps then.

Edit: hm btw

VBRF HM with less than 60k group DPS would definitely be a rough go, and would frankly take a little RNG for good placement of the lava pools, but I do think it would be technically possible.

That said, a fight with basically 3 enemies stacked on top of one another shouldn’t be that hard to achieve group DPS of 60k. And if you cant you probably shouldn’t be attempting one of the harder 4 man fights in the game.

This is the problem behind the question. People queue for vet with low dps. A high dps and dpsing healer and tank carry the low dps and it is assumed everyone is doing their bit. Then the the healer has to only heal and buff and the tank has to focus on being a tank and total dps needed for boss fight is suddenly subpar by 20 to 30 k. And no one knew.

I would implement a dps metre for vet only.

Tilleroeshi

Yes, add dps % meter

I’d like to see who is and isn’t contributing to finishing the dungeon. Low DPS players are easy to spot most of the time because they are just light attacking or standing around with their thumb their butts being one shotted in the red.

maboleth

Don’t know / care

Oh the DPS. Guys doing dungeons are the most elitist and frustrating crowd in this game. They are obnoxious, they moan in the chat, look at sub-CP level guys with a laugh or even quit the group that was a PUG after all. No sane PVP player would ever do that.

Wherever I have to go there, my stomach starts aching. A shame since dungeons in this game are beautiful.

Dubhliam

Yes, add dps % meter

Although I am all for it, let's get real.
It will never happen.

The only reason it should be implemented is for a 'reality check', and let's face it: people worth their salt already an approximation via Combat metrics and skeleton parses.

The only thing that would be actually feasible for ZOS to implement it the little Combat Metrics bar with realtime DPS an HPS and other stuff so that console players don't miss out.

srfrogg23

No, don’t add meter

Ugh. No. Like, hell no. You want WoW levels of toxicity? Because that’s how you get WoW levels of toxicity.