More transparency about dmg in dungeon?

VaranisArano · July 2018

No, don’t add meter

DanteYoda wrote: »

DPS meters are toxic cancer and so are the customers that use them..

The vast majority aren't. It can be a really useful tool for learning how to improve your own DPS. Those few players who are nasty about it ruined it for everyone.

LeagueTroll · July 2018

Yes, add dps % meter

sudaki_eso wrote: »

As a console Player, lol...

Obv i am saying build in

LeagueTroll · July 2018

Yes, add dps % meter

PelinalWhitestrake wrote: »

"Transparency."

Ofc it is. Especially for the tank, the only time i can tell someone is complete garb is when i see snipe spam or crystal frag spam.

generalmyrick · July 2018

Yes, add dps % meter

DanteYoda wrote: »

DPS meters are toxic cancer and so are the customers that use them..

i am toxic...

LeagueTroll · July 2018

Yes, add dps % meter

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Group DPS is the only DPS that matters.

You already have a pretty good idea who's doing alright and who needs a bit of help.

Every single individual can look at their own Combat Metrics and see the % of the DPS they're doing. 1/8th is a little over 12%. Anything above that is bonus.

Place the focus on this and you can forget about people stopping to rez, moving out of the red, interrupts, call outs, or doing much of anything but their rotation.

But you're already aware of all these things.

If you are the tank, most the time you have little clue.

VaranisArano · July 2018

No, don’t add meter

LeagueTroll wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

You can calculate team DPS pretty easily.

Just figure out what your DPS% is as part of an optimised group. If it's higher than that, it means your teammates are potatoes.

I had a vet pledge once where I was dealing 86% of team damage. Suffice it to say, we didn't have a good time. The other DD thought it was sufficient to just light attack (this was before Summerset).

Only if you are a dd though. I play tank most.

With a tank, my damage is pretty constant. So I tend to look at the percentage I'm getting with my constant slow but steady DPS. If Im getting a low percentage, cool. My DDs have got this. If I'm getting a higher percentage, we''ve got a DPS problem.

Thing is, I dont need the add on to tell me that, since we've already been slow on the boss and adds if the DPS is low, or fast on the boss/adds if the DPS is good, by then, which is very noticeable to a tank. The more I do dungeons, the more I get a feel for how fast certain fights are at an average level of DPS, so its easy to "feel" how good a group is without needing an add on. Its useful, but not essential.

LeagueTroll · July 2018

Yes, add dps % meter

Kuwhar wrote: »

OmniDo wrote: »

The fact is, many players dont want their own mediocrity on display, or their sub-optimal efforts criticized.

DPS meters are irrelevant in normal dungeons, with the exception perhaps of a few DLC dungeons.
But in Veteran dungeons, a DPS meter could quickly identify incompetence and/or ineptitude, which would allow segregation.

To be blunt, if someone lacks the skill to meet a challenge and I have a choice of not participating with them, then I'd like to be aware of those circumstances so that I can make that choice accurately and promptly.

Theres nothing improper about a measuring stick.
Participation Trophies are NOT a good idea, nor have they ever been.
Knowledge without effort is laziness, and effort without knowledge is waste.

Your premise seems logical, however i think you portray it as a clear cut issue.

This tool wont only be used to determine whether a run can be successful, that is the best case.

Worst case is: "someone is 5k below some arbitrary dps benchmark, kick him because its going to take 5 extra minutes for the entire dungeon"

Its simply not going to be a benefit overall.

It’s a very much transparency issue. Combat metrics allow dd to tell their dps, and guess the other guy. But tank and healer don’t get the info. Such information asymmetry is unfair for tank and healer. It’s disencouraging ppl playing tank or healer.

Corpier · July 2018

Yes, add dps % meter

Group Damage Share (enable libgroupsocket).

Problem solved.

If they don't have it, they can post their parse from Combat Metrics.

If they don't have that, don't know what that is, or are unwilling to show it... you probably have your answer on if they are doing enough dps to clear content or expect to be carried.

Anotherone773 · July 2018

No, don’t add meter

No we dont need elitists critiquing everyone anymore than they already do...in fact its done way to much now. People should just play the game and stop worrying about being the best at it. You want to be the best at something be the best at something important, not a video game.

DaveMoeDee · July 2018

disintegr8 wrote: »

The only issue in a group is whether the group can get the job done and you do not need to know what damage everyone else is doing.

I would see this as given people another excuse to harass and kick people who don;t live up to your expectations. I'd also suggest that there would be people who will question your ability - only because they think you could/should do more.

Nah. It will give people the ability to know who to kick when a group can't progress on a boss due to low dps. It happens, but the low DDs often don't realize how horrible their dps.

Unfotunately, the game puts people who aren't DDs as DDs. There are plenty of people who are not tank, healer, or dd. They can't really perform any of those roles. For some reason, we slot those people as DDs. Then people complain about tanks that aren't actually tanking and healers that aren't healing, yet they get offended when people complain about DDs that aren't dealing damage.

LeagueTroll · July 2018

Yes, add dps % meter

VaranisArano wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

You can calculate team DPS pretty easily.

Just figure out what your DPS% is as part of an optimised group. If it's higher than that, it means your teammates are potatoes.

I had a vet pledge once where I was dealing 86% of team damage. Suffice it to say, we didn't have a good time. The other DD thought it was sufficient to just light attack (this was before Summerset).

Only if you are a dd though. I play tank most.

With a tank, my damage is pretty constant. So I tend to look at the percentage I'm getting with my constant slow but steady DPS. If Im getting a low percentage, cool. My DDs have got this. If I'm getting a higher percentage, we''ve got a DPS problem.

Thing is, I dont need the add on to tell me that, since we've already been slow on the boss and adds if the DPS is low, or fast on the boss/adds if the DPS is good, by then, which is very noticeable to a tank. The more I do dungeons, the more I get a feel for how fast certain fights are at an average level of DPS, so its easy to "feel" how good a group is without needing an add on. Its useful, but not essential.

Ofc you can tell group total dps, but when it is not enough and time to get a better player, it is not all that easy to see which one is worse. I don’t want to mistakenly kick a better player.

Waffennacht · July 2018

As a console player, any information on anything would be welcome

DamenAJ · July 2018

Sooooo on the fence about this, because I loved Recount on WoW... But WoW had much easier combat...

I'd love to see what others are doing, and it would indeed help in rank 2 and vet DLCs, I imagine trials(but I haven't done any yet) to find people who really aren't ready yet... But. At the same time, it would totally be abused by elitist jerks...

/frown

I abstain from voting.

DanteYoda · July 2018

No, don’t add meter

VaranisArano wrote: »

DanteYoda wrote: »

DPS meters are toxic cancer and so are the customers that use them..

The vast majority aren't. It can be a really useful tool for learning how to improve your own DPS. Those few players who are nasty about it ruined it for everyone.

They only use them to exclude others.. their whole reason for existence is to be used as an attack on other customers..

generalmyrick wrote: »

DanteYoda wrote: »

DPS meters are toxic cancer and so are the customers that use them..

i am toxic...

Yes you are.. Honesty is commendable though.

Narvuntien · July 2018

No, don’t add meter

I guess it would help show what you need to improve that can otherwise be hard to tell...

but i'd personally have a medals system similar to battlegrounds.

hamsterontherocksb16_ESO · July 2018

No, don’t add meter

This is a terrible idea. Noone once to be the worst dps. Everyone will try to do more dps when it is metered. This means people will:
1) stop rezzing (dps loss)
2) take more risks in mechanics (stay just a seeeeeeeeeecond longer on boss even though you gotta move out)
3) people will refuse off duties (vMOL kiters, runners)

Bad idea!

LadyNalcarya · July 2018

Yes, add dps % meter

Narvuntien wrote: »

but i'd personally have a medals system similar to battlegrounds.

Agreed. Bgs show total damage and heals at the end of the match, would be interesting to see something like this in dungeons.

It's funny how many people want to hide their damage, though. As if another dd can't see if they are pulling their weight or not. Even without group damage meter you know your own dps and boss hp. The rest is just a simple math problem.

hamsterontherocksb16_ESO wrote: »

3) people will refuse off duties (vMOL kiters, runners)

Bad idea!

This is the silliest argument against it I've ever heard. In competitive guilds you are expected to post anyway, and people are doing whatever is needed to get a good score.

hamsterontherocksb16_ESO · July 2018

No, don’t add meter

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Narvuntien wrote: »

but i'd personally have a medals system similar to battlegrounds.

Agreed. Bgs show total damage and heals at the end of the match, would be interesting to see something like this in dungeons.

It's funny how many people want to hide their damage, though. As if another dd can't see if they are pulling their weight or not. Even without group damage meter you know your own dps and boss hp. The rest is just a simple math problem.

hamsterontherocksb16_ESO wrote: »

3) people will refuse off duties (vMOL kiters, runners)

Bad idea!

This is the silliest argument against it I've ever heard. In competitive guilds you are expected to post anyway, and people are doing whatever is needed to get a good score.

In a COMPETETIVE guild. You´re talking from your standpoint. Now include every other guild out there doing any form of dungeon trial. Also, of people report anyways, there is no need for your guild to have a built in meter (apart from it being way more comfortable obviously).

WrathOfInnos · July 2018

Yes, add dps % meter

So as of right now it looks like 35% of people want you to know they are doing DPS, and 55% of people don’t want you to know they are not doing any DPS. That’s actually not a bad ratio compared to a typical group finder group.

TheGr8David · July 2018

No, don’t add meter

The last thing I think ESO needs is a built in method to inflate the ego of those DPS number chasers. <--- These people don't need any encouragement.

jaschacasadiob16_ESO · July 2018

It would be great to have this kind of data available. As a matter of fact, it is there already, it is simply not shown to people. In fact, this would allow people to test builds without having to spend hours at the dummy (respeccing, cheating). It would also allow people to see what's their trend, how they are improving through time. Content could be locked/unlocked based on it, automatically.

But hey, the game is meant for casual gamers who spend cash to get it all. So this is not going to happen.

LadyNalcarya · July 2018

Yes, add dps % meter

hamsterontherocksb16_ESO wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Narvuntien wrote: »

but i'd personally have a medals system similar to battlegrounds.

Agreed. Bgs show total damage and heals at the end of the match, would be interesting to see something like this in dungeons.

It's funny how many people want to hide their damage, though. As if another dd can't see if they are pulling their weight or not. Even without group damage meter you know your own dps and boss hp. The rest is just a simple math problem.

hamsterontherocksb16_ESO wrote: »

3) people will refuse off duties (vMOL kiters, runners)

Bad idea!

This is the silliest argument against it I've ever heard. In competitive guilds you are expected to post anyway, and people are doing whatever is needed to get a good score.

In a COMPETETIVE guild. You´re talking from your standpoint. Now include every other guild out there doing any form of dungeon trial. Also, of people report anyways, there is no need for your guild to have a built in meter (apart from it being way more comfortable obviously).

Well, it's not about my guild, or any guild for that matter.
My point is, even if people know that everyone will see their dps, they still perform the mechanics just fine.
Besides, a group of dps-horny people who dont care about mechanics is not going to reach Rakkhat. Twins are usually good at preventing this kind of behaviour.

MattT1988 · July 2018

No, don’t add meter

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

So as of right now it looks like 35% of people want you to know they are doing DPS, and 55% of people don’t want you to know they are not doing any DPS. That’s actually not a bad ratio compared to a typical group finder group.

That’s a very unfair and *** poor assumption to make. I do fine in the DPS department and I don’t think this feature is needed. I’m sure I’m not the only one.

ecru · July 2018

Yes, add dps % meter

just get group damage share and encourage other people to do so also

Liofa · July 2018

You can understand how much damage they do by simply watching them and the lenght of combat. It is really easy to understand who is good or bad while killing the first trash pack so I don't see a reason to not implement it. There are addons for this already but would be better to have it ingame as addons severely reduce game performance, at least in my experience.

Same when you play as a DD. If I am doing 60% of group DPS, that means the other DD is not good. I take around 3-5k from tank and 4-6k from healer and extract from group DPS to learn how much the other DD is pulling. So yeah, everyones DPS is already out there, very easy to figure out a clear and precise result.

phillyproduct · July 2018

Yes, add dps % meter

If only zos cared about console players...

Took console 2years just to get actual combat numbers over head then another 6months 4 chat..

Console still has no way to price check or see if items are for sale besides walking up to every guild trader smh...

Seriously playing this game on console is damn near impossible to efficiently use your time, i wish people on pc really played this game on console 4 a month the ui is so lacking

Maura_Neysa · July 2018

Don’t know / care

This sounds a whole lot like an Ad-On question? Nothing you listed is something I can see on console. All I know is damage ticks and where they are placed DoTs or applied and if its Blocked/Shielded/Crit.

So if its an Ad-On, then make it, not sure what a Poll about it accomplishes 0_o

MLGProPlayer · July 2018

Yes, add dps % meter

DPS meters would actually help reduce toxicity as they would keep people honest. A lot of times, the biggest complainers about group performance are those that aren't pulling their own weight.

It's the same reason I wish Overwatch medals were made public. I just love it when someone types "this team sucks" and rage quits, while I have 4/5 gold medals. If you're so good, you would pick up some of the slack. It's the hidden team stats that enable bad players to run their mouths.

Kel · July 2018

No, don’t add meter

I think everyone here is missing the overall point ...
This info was available once upon a time.
Zos gave us the ball....and we fumbled it.
It was used to exclude and shame. It led to toxicity.
I also find the pro argument funny. "We can already tell"...ok, why is this needed then?
I'll ask again, if this didn't work before, and Zos had to remove it because it led to toxic behavior, why would they allow it again?

logarifmik · July 2018

No, don’t add meter

jabrone77 wrote: »

I think everyone here is missing the overall point ...
This info was available once upon a time.
Zos gave us the ball....and we fumbled it.
It was used to exclude and shame. It led to toxicity.
I also find the pro argument funny. "We can already tell"...ok, why is this needed then?
I'll ask again, if this didn't work before, and Zos had to remove it because it led to toxic behavior, why would they allow it again?

As one man wrote here, because "segregation". But why someone want to find an Untermensch, when overall group is doing fine? Well, I suppose just to say him, that he is an Untermensch. I fail to see any other logical reasons.