Lexxypwns wrote: »

Sorc is strong, but there’s a lot of misinformation in this thread about 1 shot combos that actually only work if you’re fighting someone running glass.

The lie that the only counter is to pop an immovable also needs to be addressed, because there is also the option to CC the sorc and break up his combo that way OR use a defensive ult which has higher availability than meteor anyway. You should be able to survive curse+meteor+cage as long as you break up the rest of the combo. Stop CCing on cooldown when the sorc has a meteor ready and you can stop the combo

jaws343 wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

White wabbit wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

mb10 wrote: »

This class is ridiculously easy to play and do damage especially with the rune cage change. Its such a ridiculously OP hard CC in PVP that also does damage when it ends.
Wtf happened to "we cant hard CCs to not have much damage" Ive seen rune prisons with over 9k tooltip damage!

You used to be able to block the Dark Curse ability but of course not anymore.

They practically have unlimited sustain with Dark Deal.

The class as a whole atm has become a joke again and almost every other person is running this along with stamina warden in PVP but thats a different topic.

NERF (yes NERF) that idioticly designed rune prison skill and have a look at the way overperforming Dark Curse.


I hate to make this thread but the next patch will be out in 2-3 months and I just hope something gets done about this mess.

I always laugh when I read these points. It is definitely not easy to play. For the most part, getting CC'd on a sorc is death. So positioning and stamina management is the hardest in the game on this class.

And Dark Deal is interruptible and a channel. Casting Dark Deal during combat is risking losing shields and being one shot by most abilities.

Kill enemy Sorcs still takes a long time to complete. Not because they are hard to kill but because no one is playing them. I see far more Stam Sorcs running around using streak than Mag Sorcs.

Lol and I love reading these posts saying not many people playing them , you must be hiding under a rock

To be fair, depending on your platform and campaign, class population can differ. I must say that on Xbox NA sorc is an extremely popular class. I mainly play in Vivec and Battlegrounds.

Also Xbox NA, Sorcs are everywhere in BGs. But Vivec is pretty barren. It is usually just the same 5-10 sorcs causing most of the trouble. They seem like a lot because they are good and show up at most fights. But there are far more DKs and Nightblades than any other class, especially sorcs.

IAVITNI wrote: »

The most balanced sorcs ever were was when Frags was overloaded. The entire combo revolved around landing that skill. If it didn't land, the rotation was wasted. Wins came from setting up frags, which required skill vs a non-idiot.

ZoS decided to change this without understanding how the classes offensive rotation actually worked. Take out Rune Cage damage and the class won't kill anything. Add Rune Cage damage, class kills everything. This was the only real change from DB to SS. So that's what...9k more tooltip damage and around 2k more magicka from running willpower?

Sorc power creep was substantially less than most other classes set wise. The only big change was rune cage--which every good sorc argued against. Rune Cage is the issues, the sorc class itself is actually very weak compared to top performing classes. Only thing sorc has is ability to reset fights, which (good) stamblades can do better.

Funny how nobody complained about sorcs in DB but come SS it's "sorcs OP" when the only real change was Rune Cage. Shouldn't the argument than be "Rune Cage op"? Or is logic something that escapes full divines medium night blades completely?

Apherius wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Nerf Rune Cage, stun is causing lot of problems in BG

They can nerf the damage ( even remove it ) and reduce the stun to 2,5/3 sec , but they CAN NOT make it dodgeable and blockable ...

Even if they keep the current damage and keep the 5 sec stun, but remove the " dodgeable and blockable " part ... there would be no reason to slot that over destructive reach.

Cause destructive reach deal more damage, can be spammed, cost 600 less magicka than rune cage with master destro ( 250 more magicka without the master destro ) deal additional damage over time, and proc the burn effect. we are obliged to play with a destro staff unfortunaly because of the lack of build diversity on mag sorc ... so i don't really see how rune cage could be worth to slot over destructive reach.

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Apherius wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Nerf Rune Cage, stun is causing lot of problems in BG

They can nerf the damage ( even remove it ) and reduce the stun to 2,5/3 sec , but they CAN NOT make it dodgeable and blockable ...

Even if they keep the current damage and keep the 5 sec stun, but remove the " dodgeable and blockable " part ... there would be no reason to slot that over destructive reach.

Cause destructive reach deal more damage, can be spammed, cost 600 less magicka than rune cage with master destro ( 250 more magicka without the master destro ) deal additional damage over time, and proc the burn effect. we are obliged to play with a destro staff unfortunaly because of the lack of build diversity on mag sorc ... so i don't really see how rune cage could be worth to slot over destructive reach.

One shot combo need to go, Sorc are pretty much doing this in BG. mages Wrath + Implosion also need some tweaking in PVP

Rune cage needs a bigger nerf may be with increase cost + shorter range

Killset wrote: »

IAVITNI wrote: »

The most balanced sorcs ever were was when Frags was overloaded. The entire combo revolved around landing that skill. If it didn't land, the rotation was wasted. Wins came from setting up frags, which required skill vs a non-idiot.

ZoS decided to change this without understanding how the classes offensive rotation actually worked. Take out Rune Cage damage and the class won't kill anything. Add Rune Cage damage, class kills everything. This was the only real change from DB to SS. So that's what...9k more tooltip damage and around 2k more magicka from running willpower?

Sorc power creep was substantially less than most other classes set wise. The only big change was rune cage--which every good sorc argued against. Rune Cage is the issues, the sorc class itself is actually very weak compared to top performing classes. Only thing sorc has is ability to reset fights, which (good) stamblades can do better.

Funny how nobody complained about sorcs in DB but come SS it's "sorcs OP" when the only real change was Rune Cage. Shouldn't the argument than be "Rune Cage op"? Or is logic something that escapes full divines medium night blades completely?

Destro staff counting as 2 set pieces and the buff to Destro light/heavy attack damage. Those are two more massive buffs, that arguably, Sorc benefits the most from. Don’t forget those little changes.

mb10 wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

I don't know why people are proposing to nerf the RANGE of Rune Cage when it's the CC and the damage that's killing them!

Sorcs are supposed to be ranged casters... it would be nuts to make one of our spells have a shorter range than the others.

Well obviously the range is killing them too. If you can cast a hard cc along with all your attacks from 41 meters it is devastating.

Nerf it to oblivion

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Apherius wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Nerf Rune Cage, stun is causing lot of problems in BG

They can nerf the damage ( even remove it ) and reduce the stun to 2,5/3 sec , but they CAN NOT make it dodgeable and blockable ...

Even if they keep the current damage and keep the 5 sec stun, but remove the " dodgeable and blockable " part ... there would be no reason to slot that over destructive reach.

Cause destructive reach deal more damage, can be spammed, cost 600 less magicka than rune cage with master destro ( 250 more magicka without the master destro ) deal additional damage over time, and proc the burn effect. we are obliged to play with a destro staff unfortunaly because of the lack of build diversity on mag sorc ... so i don't really see how rune cage could be worth to slot over destructive reach.

One shot combo need to go, Sorc are pretty much doing this in BG. mages Wrath + Implosion also need some tweaking in PVP

Rune cage needs a bigger nerf may be with increase cost + shorter range

Lord-Otto wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Liam,
Sorcs MUST wear two sustain sets, because their class resource management (even with Conversion) is crap. It's a burden, not a luxury. Throwing in a damage set means you need to sacrifice something to make up.

Ragna,
Debatable. Continued burst is dangerous, but so are DoTs, roots, snares and raw dps.

Thankyou,
Running tristat food on the Necro/Lich/Shadow/Willpower combo means you're missing magicka regen from your food. What you ignore is that 50k mag builds usually sacrifice spellpower glyphs for sustain, having as low spell damage as 1800. A stat that gets buffed by Minor/Major Sorcery and Continuous Attack, which max mag doesn't benefit from.

With shadowrend and lich you have 3 lines of Magicka regen not counting the lich proc which boost regen even further. you don't need more regen than this. With this you already have close to 4000 regen when lich proc as well as tri pots for emergency situations. If this isn't enough regen you are playing badly. You can also get around 3k spell damage buffed with a damage glyph on your weapon. using 3 sustain sets is just overkill.

Two. Two lines. Lich four-piece mag regen is exclusive to backbar. You have 1200 regen on front, where you're most of the time.

But you have 3 total lines of regen on your build also 2 lines of regen on the front bar is more than 1200 it's a little over 1700 and around 1900 on the back bar if you are a high elf that's without the 10% from potions and without being a vampire. With your potion you will be close to 1900 on the front bar. This is plenty enough regen in between lich and potion procs while fighting stamina characters, and you will actually over sustain while fighting Magicka characters because of harness Magicka.

It's 1268 on front and 1458 on back for my vampire High Elf, with 75 points in Arcanist. 1422/1637 with Major Intellect up.
NOT. ENOUGH.

I'm a little confused why our numbers are so different I just put that gear on my sorc and have 1644 regen on the front bar (1865 with pot) and 1848 on the back bar. What mundus stone are you using? With you being vamp your regen should be even higher than mine. Either way arguing over regen is pointless some players need more than others based on playstyle. All sustain sets is in no way a must for sorc though, and adding a damage set will make your burst much more potent. If you can find away to need less sustain which is 100% manageable you will open up your build to being able to actually win a fight and not just sustain forever.

Mage mundus for 2k mag. Without it, I should have like 48k mag, not the desired 50. And that's with big pieces infused.

Yes, you need a lot of sustain on sorc. 1800 mag regen is not enough. And if you think Dark Conversion covers your needs, during the channel you'll take so much damage that you'll have to re-shield right after, immediately spending that gained magicka.
And you'll want additional stamina to dodge and maybe block in a while, or the first Talon DK or Cripple NB that comes your way completely incapacitates you.
Not to mention the occassional poison...

There's a good reason Shackle/Lich became the meta after Morrowind dropped. That is the amount of sustain needed, and if you forego one set, you have to make up. Purpale Slushii, for example, has a YT video on that Necro/Lich/Shadow/WP build, and he has 1500 spell damage unbuffed. That's the sacrifice he makes.

Lord-Otto wrote: »

CaliMade wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Liam,
Sorcs MUST wear two sustain sets, because their class resource management (even with Conversion) is crap. It's a burden, not a luxury. Throwing in a damage set means you need to sacrifice something to make up.

Ragna,
Debatable. Continued burst is dangerous, but so are DoTs, roots, snares and raw dps.

Thankyou,
Running tristat food on the Necro/Lich/Shadow/Willpower combo means you're missing magicka regen from your food. What you ignore is that 50k mag builds usually sacrifice spellpower glyphs for sustain, having as low spell damage as 1800. A stat that gets buffed by Minor/Major Sorcery and Continuous Attack, which max mag doesn't benefit from.

With shadowrend and lich you have 3 lines of Magicka regen not counting the lich proc which boost regen even further. you don't need more regen than this. With this you already have close to 4000 regen when lich proc as well as tri pots for emergency situations. If this isn't enough regen you are playing badly. You can also get around 3k spell damage buffed with a damage glyph on your weapon. using 3 sustain sets is just overkill.

Two. Two lines. Lich four-piece mag regen is exclusive to backbar. You have 1200 regen on front, where you're most of the time.

But you have 3 total lines of regen on your build also 2 lines of regen on the front bar is more than 1200 it's a little over 1700 and around 1900 on the back bar if you are a high elf that's without the 10% from potions and without being a vampire. With your potion you will be close to 1900 on the front bar. This is plenty enough regen in between lich and potion procs while fighting stamina characters, and you will actually over sustain while fighting Magicka characters because of harness Magicka.

It's 1268 on front and 1458 on back for my vampire High Elf, with 75 points in Arcanist. 1422/1637 with Major Intellect up.
NOT. ENOUGH.

I'm a little confused why our numbers are so different I just put that gear on my sorc and have 1644 regen on the front bar (1865 with pot) and 1848 on the back bar. What mundus stone are you using? With you being vamp your regen should be even higher than mine. Either way arguing over regen is pointless some players need more than others based on playstyle. All sustain sets is in no way a must for sorc though, and adding a damage set will make your burst much more potent. If you can find away to need less sustain which is 100% manageable you will open up your build to being able to actually win a fight and not just sustain forever.

Mage mundus for 2k mag. Without it, I should have like 48k mag, not the desired 50. And that's with big pieces infused.

Yes, you need a lot of sustain on sorc. 1800 mag regen is not enough. And if you think Dark Conversion covers your needs, during the channel you'll take so much damage that you'll have to re-shield right after, immediately spending that gained magicka.
And you'll want additional stamina to dodge and maybe block in a while, or the first Talon DK or Cripple NB that comes your way completely incapacitates you.
Not to mention the occassional poison...

There's a good reason Shackle/Lich became the meta after Morrowind dropped. That is the amount of sustain needed, and if you forego one set, you have to make up. Purpale Slushii, for example, has a YT video on that Necro/Lich/Shadow/WP build, and he has 1500 spell damage unbuffed. That's the sacrifice he makes.

i think one bit your missing is the varrying skill levels, to say all sorcs cant sustain off 1800 regen is assuming every sorc is you.I run 1600 regen max on all but my mag warden(1900) and thats because i haven't gotten a grip of the class just yet.

On mag sorc specifically i run Exactly 1600 on my backbar. I also use dampen magic instead of harness. Everyone has varrying levels of resource management.

I share that opinion with some of the very best sorc players. Maybe it's you?
And I promise you someone like me could just run you out of resources and then kill you easily, no matter the skill level. And don't forget about poisons!

Brrrofski wrote: »

Rune cage and mages wrath are the issues.

Revert rune cage to a non damaging disorient on taking damage and give e frag back the stun.

Reduce the mages wrath window to 2 seconds from 4.

Mag sorc would still be strong but not broken.