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Mag Sorc in PVP is riduclous atm
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ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Sorc is strong, but there’s a lot of misinformation in this thread about 1 shot combos that actually only work if you’re fighting someone running glass.
The lie that the only counter is to pop an immovable also needs to be addressed, because there is also the option to CC the sorc and break up his combo that way OR use a defensive ult which has higher availability than meteor anyway. You should be able to survive curse+meteor+cage as long as you break up the rest of the combo. Stop CCing on cooldown when the sorc has a meteor ready and you can stop the combo
The combos work on more than glass cannon builds. An OL/cage combo took down my 5 heavy 7 impen DK from like 90% health whilst I was on my 2h bar. And a 20k normal curse/frags/fury/cage combo. That's a lotta damage. I pretty much have to run wings or I will be gibbed as soon as I am caged. A meteor combo can instakill me.
The best counter is generally keep attacking and CCing so that the sorc can't line up the full combo, root and go around, so they either have to LA and turn or break out, general CCs and pressures.MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.0 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Pretty much what I see open world small man groups these days are mag sorcs and NBs. Sorc kites around to lure someone in, then the NB opens from stealth with their front loaded damage, to lead to the sorcs backend damage. Maybe they bring a DK or Warden to draw fire or do some dragon leaps to take on bigger groups but not all that necessary. Sorc can spam shields until the NB creates the opening
Yet here we are. Usually NBs calling sorcs OP or sorcs calling NBs OP. Meanwhile magplar are rarely seeen outside of healbot, stamdk and magwarden all but extinct, Stamplar largely relies on DBOS once they build enough sustain, and even stam Warden seem to have faded since they pretty much were reliant on the one trick pony combo.
Basically; only Sorc and NB can excel in either stam or magicka. Need to really address these other classes. Not saying they are fine but I’d rather have the focus on that.Edited by technohic on June 30, 2018 1:47PM3 -
Killset✭✭✭✭
What are you talking about lol. There are a ton of Sorcs in both Shor and Vivec.Apache_Kid wrote: »White wabbit wrote: »This class is ridiculously easy to play and do damage especially with the rune cage change. Its such a ridiculously OP hard CC in PVP that also does damage when it ends.
Wtf happened to "we cant hard CCs to not have much damage" Ive seen rune prisons with over 9k tooltip damage!
You used to be able to block the Dark Curse ability but of course not anymore.
They practically have unlimited sustain with Dark Deal.
The class as a whole atm has become a joke again and almost every other person is running this along with stamina warden in PVP but thats a different topic.
NERF (yes NERF) that idioticly designed rune prison skill and have a look at the way overperforming Dark Curse.
I hate to make this thread but the next patch will be out in 2-3 months and I just hope something gets done about this mess.
I always laugh when I read these points. It is definitely not easy to play. For the most part, getting CC'd on a sorc is death. So positioning and stamina management is the hardest in the game on this class.
And Dark Deal is interruptible and a channel. Casting Dark Deal during combat is risking losing shields and being one shot by most abilities.
Kill enemy Sorcs still takes a long time to complete. Not because they are hard to kill but because no one is playing them. I see far more Stam Sorcs running around using streak than Mag Sorcs.
Lol and I love reading these posts saying not many people playing them , you must be hiding under a rock
To be fair, depending on your platform and campaign, class population can differ. I must say that on Xbox NA sorc is an extremely popular class. I mainly play in Vivec and Battlegrounds.
Also Xbox NA, Sorcs are everywhere in BGs. But Vivec is pretty barren. It is usually just the same 5-10 sorcs causing most of the trouble. They seem like a lot because they are good and show up at most fights. But there are far more DKs and Nightblades than any other class, especially sorcs.
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Killset✭✭✭✭
A better way to put this is. Sorc is the class that artificially inflates your skill level, allowing you to kill people you probably couldn’t kill on another class. And definitely not as fast or from the back of your group/Zerg.grannas211 wrote: »Sorc is class that kills bad players really easily, hence alot of this section here on the forums crying. It is also a very good class in a ball group. Yes it steals kills in BGs as.
But to kill better players its not the easiest class to play. If you get focused, youre also dead af.
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Killset✭✭✭✭
Destro staff counting as 2 set pieces and the buff to Destro light/heavy attack damage. Those are two more massive buffs, that arguably, Sorc benefits the most from. Don’t forget those little changes.The most balanced sorcs ever were was when Frags was overloaded. The entire combo revolved around landing that skill. If it didn't land, the rotation was wasted. Wins came from setting up frags, which required skill vs a non-idiot.
ZoS decided to change this without understanding how the classes offensive rotation actually worked. Take out Rune Cage damage and the class won't kill anything. Add Rune Cage damage, class kills everything. This was the only real change from DB to SS. So that's what...9k more tooltip damage and around 2k more magicka from running willpower?
Sorc power creep was substantially less than most other classes set wise. The only big change was rune cage--which every good sorc argued against. Rune Cage is the issues, the sorc class itself is actually very weak compared to top performing classes. Only thing sorc has is ability to reset fights, which (good) stamblades can do better.
Funny how nobody complained about sorcs in DB but come SS it's "sorcs OP" when the only real change was Rune Cage. Shouldn't the argument than be "Rune Cage op"? Or is logic something that escapes full divines medium night blades completely?
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Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
A better way to put this is. Sorc is the class that artificially inflates your skill level, allowing you to kill people you probably couldn’t kill on another class. And definitely not as fast or from the back of your group/Zerg.grannas211 wrote: »Sorc is class that kills bad players really easily, hence alot of this section here on the forums crying. It is also a very good class in a ball group. Yes it steals kills in BGs as.
But to kill better players its not the easiest class to play. If you get focused, youre also dead af.
This is quite accurate. People I can kill on my stamblade I can also kill on my magDK and magsorc, and depending on my opponent even easier.
I have guild mates that couldn't win duels until they played a magsorc. Now that rarely lose. They didn't get better, they're getting carried and they know it.Edited by Strider__Roshin on June 30, 2018 3:08PM2 -
Lord_Eomer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Nerf Rune Cage, stun is causing lot of problems in BG
What an unfair one shot combo, ZOS should fire one ruining PVP!Edited by Lord_Eomer on June 30, 2018 3:22PM2 -
Apherius✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Lord_Dexter wrote: »Nerf Rune Cage, stun is causing lot of problems in BG
They can nerf the damage ( even remove it ) and reduce the stun to 2,5/3 sec , but they CAN NOT make it dodgeable and blockable ...
Even if they keep the current damage and keep the 5 sec stun, but remove the " dodgeable and blockable " part ... there would be no reason to slot that over destructive reach.
Cause destructive reach deal more damage, can be spammed, cost 600 less magicka than rune cage with master destro ( 250 more magicka without the master destro ) deal additional damage over time, and proc the burn effect. we are obliged to play with a destro staff unfortunaly because of the lack of build diversity on mag sorc ... so i don't really see how rune cage could be worth to slot over destructive reach. both have 28 meters range.Edited by Apherius on June 30, 2018 3:26PM1 -
Lord_Eomer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Lord_Dexter wrote: »Nerf Rune Cage, stun is causing lot of problems in BG
They can nerf the damage ( even remove it ) and reduce the stun to 2,5/3 sec , but they CAN NOT make it dodgeable and blockable ...
Even if they keep the current damage and keep the 5 sec stun, but remove the " dodgeable and blockable " part ... there would be no reason to slot that over destructive reach.
Cause destructive reach deal more damage, can be spammed, cost 600 less magicka than rune cage with master destro ( 250 more magicka without the master destro ) deal additional damage over time, and proc the burn effect. we are obliged to play with a destro staff unfortunaly because of the lack of build diversity on mag sorc ... so i don't really see how rune cage could be worth to slot over destructive reach.
One shot combo need to go, Sorc are pretty much doing this in BG. mages Wrath + Implosion also need some tweaking in PVP
Rune cage needs a bigger nerf may be with increase cost + shorter rangeEdited by Lord_Eomer on June 30, 2018 3:26PM1 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't know why people are proposing to nerf the RANGE of Rune Cage when it's the CC and the damage that's killing them!
Sorcs are supposed to be ranged casters... it would be nuts to make one of our spells have a shorter range than the others.#CAREBEARMASTERRACE3 -
Apherius✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Lord_Dexter wrote: »Lord_Dexter wrote: »Nerf Rune Cage, stun is causing lot of problems in BG
They can nerf the damage ( even remove it ) and reduce the stun to 2,5/3 sec , but they CAN NOT make it dodgeable and blockable ...
Even if they keep the current damage and keep the 5 sec stun, but remove the " dodgeable and blockable " part ... there would be no reason to slot that over destructive reach.
Cause destructive reach deal more damage, can be spammed, cost 600 less magicka than rune cage with master destro ( 250 more magicka without the master destro ) deal additional damage over time, and proc the burn effect. we are obliged to play with a destro staff unfortunaly because of the lack of build diversity on mag sorc ... so i don't really see how rune cage could be worth to slot over destructive reach.
One shot combo need to go, Sorc are pretty much doing this in BG. mages Wrath + Implosion also need some tweaking in PVP
Rune cage needs a bigger nerf may be with increase cost + shorter range
Remove the damage, reduce the stun to 3 sec, increase the cost to 3443 magicka from 2984. all our damage skill have 28 meters range, i don't see why this should be different with this skill.2 -
mb10✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »I don't know why people are proposing to nerf the RANGE of Rune Cage when it's the CC and the damage that's killing them!
Sorcs are supposed to be ranged casters... it would be nuts to make one of our spells have a shorter range than the others.
Well obviously the range is killing them too. If you can cast a hard cc along with all your attacks from 41 meters it is devastating.
Nerf it to oblivion2 -
Vahrokh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Destro staff counting as 2 set pieces and the buff to Destro light/heavy attack damage. Those are two more massive buffs, that arguably, Sorc benefits the most from. Don’t forget those little changes.The most balanced sorcs ever were was when Frags was overloaded. The entire combo revolved around landing that skill. If it didn't land, the rotation was wasted. Wins came from setting up frags, which required skill vs a non-idiot.
ZoS decided to change this without understanding how the classes offensive rotation actually worked. Take out Rune Cage damage and the class won't kill anything. Add Rune Cage damage, class kills everything. This was the only real change from DB to SS. So that's what...9k more tooltip damage and around 2k more magicka from running willpower?
Sorc power creep was substantially less than most other classes set wise. The only big change was rune cage--which every good sorc argued against. Rune Cage is the issues, the sorc class itself is actually very weak compared to top performing classes. Only thing sorc has is ability to reset fights, which (good) stamblades can do better.
Funny how nobody complained about sorcs in DB but come SS it's "sorcs OP" when the only real change was Rune Cage. Shouldn't the argument than be "Rune Cage op"? Or is logic something that escapes full divines medium night blades completely?
If only other classes could play Destro staff. If only other classes could get that elusive 2 set pieces and the buff to light/heavy damage.
Oh, wait. Everyone got that.Edited by Vahrokh on July 1, 2018 12:35AMVaerah, Dark Elf Magicka Sorceress
Trials addict, soloer extraordinaire!
Here are my Elder Scrolls Online videos
Here is the Sorcerer Helper addon I have updated to work on current ESO2 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »I don't know why people are proposing to nerf the RANGE of Rune Cage when it's the CC and the damage that's killing them!
Sorcs are supposed to be ranged casters... it would be nuts to make one of our spells have a shorter range than the others.
Well obviously the range is killing them too. If you can cast a hard cc along with all your attacks from 41 meters it is devastating.
Nerf it to oblivion
What was that? Change it to oblivion damage?
Minalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.3 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »I don't know why people are proposing to nerf the RANGE of Rune Cage when it's the CC and the damage that's killing them!
Sorcs are supposed to be ranged casters... it would be nuts to make one of our spells have a shorter range than the others.
Well obviously the range is killing them too. If you can cast a hard cc along with all your attacks from 41 meters it is devastating.
Nerf it to oblivion
LOL, what? So if you keep getting killed with Lethal Arrow from a mile away, it would make sense to you to nerf the range to 17 meters or something?#CAREBEARMASTERRACE0 -
Brrrofski✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Rune cage and mages wrath are the issues.
Revert rune cage to a non damaging disorient on taking damage and give e frag back the stun.
Reduce the mages wrath window to 2 seconds from 4.
Mag sorc would still be strong but not broken.3 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Lord_Dexter wrote: »Lord_Dexter wrote: »Nerf Rune Cage, stun is causing lot of problems in BG
They can nerf the damage ( even remove it ) and reduce the stun to 2,5/3 sec , but they CAN NOT make it dodgeable and blockable ...
Even if they keep the current damage and keep the 5 sec stun, but remove the " dodgeable and blockable " part ... there would be no reason to slot that over destructive reach.
Cause destructive reach deal more damage, can be spammed, cost 600 less magicka than rune cage with master destro ( 250 more magicka without the master destro ) deal additional damage over time, and proc the burn effect. we are obliged to play with a destro staff unfortunaly because of the lack of build diversity on mag sorc ... so i don't really see how rune cage could be worth to slot over destructive reach.
One shot combo need to go, Sorc are pretty much doing this in BG. mages Wrath + Implosion also need some tweaking in PVP
Rune cage needs a bigger nerf may be with increase cost + shorter range
Could you please list which skills actually proc implosion on a mag sorc? And in addition, could you tell which ones of that wouldn't kill you anyway if you're under the implosion health threshold on an ordinary build (not some 50k health tank)? Thanks.0 -
Eejit1331✭✭✭If sorcs are so easy to play then try escape this kind of bs spammed by 10iq zerglings or by someone who just spams gapclosers and occasional light attacks to proc the enchant while wearing heavy and 40k health. Op just git gut and stop the qq about sorcs being overpowered while 90% of Cyrodiil is wearing cancer sets like Sloads Shielbreaker and Oblivion dmg glyphs that do the job for them.
Besides rune being like the old fossilize theres nothing that makes them really overpowered.
This looks like an attempt to escape from the battle by streaking away. Sload did it's job.Edited by Eejit1331 on July 1, 2018 1:58PM2 -
CaliMade✭✭✭✭thankyourat wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »Liam,
Sorcs MUST wear two sustain sets, because their class resource management (even with Conversion) is crap. It's a burden, not a luxury. Throwing in a damage set means you need to sacrifice something to make up.
Ragna,
Debatable. Continued burst is dangerous, but so are DoTs, roots, snares and raw dps.
Thankyou,
Running tristat food on the Necro/Lich/Shadow/Willpower combo means you're missing magicka regen from your food. What you ignore is that 50k mag builds usually sacrifice spellpower glyphs for sustain, having as low spell damage as 1800. A stat that gets buffed by Minor/Major Sorcery and Continuous Attack, which max mag doesn't benefit from.
With shadowrend and lich you have 3 lines of Magicka regen not counting the lich proc which boost regen even further. you don't need more regen than this. With this you already have close to 4000 regen when lich proc as well as tri pots for emergency situations. If this isn't enough regen you are playing badly. You can also get around 3k spell damage buffed with a damage glyph on your weapon. using 3 sustain sets is just overkill.
Two. Two lines. Lich four-piece mag regen is exclusive to backbar. You have 1200 regen on front, where you're most of the time.
But you have 3 total lines of regen on your build also 2 lines of regen on the front bar is more than 1200 it's a little over 1700 and around 1900 on the back bar if you are a high elf that's without the 10% from potions and without being a vampire. With your potion you will be close to 1900 on the front bar. This is plenty enough regen in between lich and potion procs while fighting stamina characters, and you will actually over sustain while fighting Magicka characters because of harness Magicka.
It's 1268 on front and 1458 on back for my vampire High Elf, with 75 points in Arcanist. 1422/1637 with Major Intellect up.
NOT. ENOUGH.
I'm a little confused why our numbers are so different I just put that gear on my sorc and have 1644 regen on the front bar (1865 with pot) and 1848 on the back bar. What mundus stone are you using? With you being vamp your regen should be even higher than mine. Either way arguing over regen is pointless some players need more than others based on playstyle. All sustain sets is in no way a must for sorc though, and adding a damage set will make your burst much more potent. If you can find away to need less sustain which is 100% manageable you will open up your build to being able to actually win a fight and not just sustain forever.
Mage mundus for 2k mag. Without it, I should have like 48k mag, not the desired 50. And that's with big pieces infused.
Yes, you need a lot of sustain on sorc. 1800 mag regen is not enough. And if you think Dark Conversion covers your needs, during the channel you'll take so much damage that you'll have to re-shield right after, immediately spending that gained magicka.
And you'll want additional stamina to dodge and maybe block in a while, or the first Talon DK or Cripple NB that comes your way completely incapacitates you.
Not to mention the occassional poison...
There's a good reason Shackle/Lich became the meta after Morrowind dropped. That is the amount of sustain needed, and if you forego one set, you have to make up. Purpale Slushii, for example, has a YT video on that Necro/Lich/Shadow/WP build, and he has 1500 spell damage unbuffed. That's the sacrifice he makes.
i think one bit your missing is the varrying skill levels, to say all sorcs cant sustain off 1800 regen is assuming every sorc is you.I run 1600 regen max on all but my mag warden(1900) and thats because i haven't gotten a grip of the class just yet.
On mag sorc specifically i run Exactly 1600 on my backbar. I also use dampen magic instead of harness. Everyone has varrying levels of resource management.
Edited by CaliMade on July 1, 2018 2:21PMXB1 GT- Cali Made
Praetorian Stam DK Redguard
Brigadier Stam/magblade (whatever i feel like running) Redguard
Major Mag DK Dark Elf
lieutenant Mag/stamplar (whatever i feel like running) Redguard2 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭thankyourat wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »Liam,
Sorcs MUST wear two sustain sets, because their class resource management (even with Conversion) is crap. It's a burden, not a luxury. Throwing in a damage set means you need to sacrifice something to make up.
Ragna,
Debatable. Continued burst is dangerous, but so are DoTs, roots, snares and raw dps.
Thankyou,
Running tristat food on the Necro/Lich/Shadow/Willpower combo means you're missing magicka regen from your food. What you ignore is that 50k mag builds usually sacrifice spellpower glyphs for sustain, having as low spell damage as 1800. A stat that gets buffed by Minor/Major Sorcery and Continuous Attack, which max mag doesn't benefit from.
With shadowrend and lich you have 3 lines of Magicka regen not counting the lich proc which boost regen even further. you don't need more regen than this. With this you already have close to 4000 regen when lich proc as well as tri pots for emergency situations. If this isn't enough regen you are playing badly. You can also get around 3k spell damage buffed with a damage glyph on your weapon. using 3 sustain sets is just overkill.
Two. Two lines. Lich four-piece mag regen is exclusive to backbar. You have 1200 regen on front, where you're most of the time.
But you have 3 total lines of regen on your build also 2 lines of regen on the front bar is more than 1200 it's a little over 1700 and around 1900 on the back bar if you are a high elf that's without the 10% from potions and without being a vampire. With your potion you will be close to 1900 on the front bar. This is plenty enough regen in between lich and potion procs while fighting stamina characters, and you will actually over sustain while fighting Magicka characters because of harness Magicka.
It's 1268 on front and 1458 on back for my vampire High Elf, with 75 points in Arcanist. 1422/1637 with Major Intellect up.
NOT. ENOUGH.
I'm a little confused why our numbers are so different I just put that gear on my sorc and have 1644 regen on the front bar (1865 with pot) and 1848 on the back bar. What mundus stone are you using? With you being vamp your regen should be even higher than mine. Either way arguing over regen is pointless some players need more than others based on playstyle. All sustain sets is in no way a must for sorc though, and adding a damage set will make your burst much more potent. If you can find away to need less sustain which is 100% manageable you will open up your build to being able to actually win a fight and not just sustain forever.
Mage mundus for 2k mag. Without it, I should have like 48k mag, not the desired 50. And that's with big pieces infused.
Yes, you need a lot of sustain on sorc. 1800 mag regen is not enough. And if you think Dark Conversion covers your needs, during the channel you'll take so much damage that you'll have to re-shield right after, immediately spending that gained magicka.
And you'll want additional stamina to dodge and maybe block in a while, or the first Talon DK or Cripple NB that comes your way completely incapacitates you.
Not to mention the occassional poison...
There's a good reason Shackle/Lich became the meta after Morrowind dropped. That is the amount of sustain needed, and if you forego one set, you have to make up. Purpale Slushii, for example, has a YT video on that Necro/Lich/Shadow/WP build, and he has 1500 spell damage unbuffed. That's the sacrifice he makes.
i think one bit your missing is the varrying skill levels, to say all sorcs cant sustain off 1800 regen is assuming every sorc is you.I run 1600 regen max on all but my mag warden(1900) and thats because i haven't gotten a grip of the class just yet.
On mag sorc specifically i run Exactly 1600 on my backbar. I also use dampen magic instead of harness. Everyone has varrying levels of resource management.
I share that opinion with some of the very best sorc players. Maybe it's you?
And I promise you someone like me could just run you out of resources and then kill you easily, no matter the skill level. And don't forget about poisons!0 -
CaliMade✭✭✭✭thankyourat wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »Liam,
Sorcs MUST wear two sustain sets, because their class resource management (even with Conversion) is crap. It's a burden, not a luxury. Throwing in a damage set means you need to sacrifice something to make up.
Ragna,
Debatable. Continued burst is dangerous, but so are DoTs, roots, snares and raw dps.
Thankyou,
Running tristat food on the Necro/Lich/Shadow/Willpower combo means you're missing magicka regen from your food. What you ignore is that 50k mag builds usually sacrifice spellpower glyphs for sustain, having as low spell damage as 1800. A stat that gets buffed by Minor/Major Sorcery and Continuous Attack, which max mag doesn't benefit from.
With shadowrend and lich you have 3 lines of Magicka regen not counting the lich proc which boost regen even further. you don't need more regen than this. With this you already have close to 4000 regen when lich proc as well as tri pots for emergency situations. If this isn't enough regen you are playing badly. You can also get around 3k spell damage buffed with a damage glyph on your weapon. using 3 sustain sets is just overkill.
Two. Two lines. Lich four-piece mag regen is exclusive to backbar. You have 1200 regen on front, where you're most of the time.
But you have 3 total lines of regen on your build also 2 lines of regen on the front bar is more than 1200 it's a little over 1700 and around 1900 on the back bar if you are a high elf that's without the 10% from potions and without being a vampire. With your potion you will be close to 1900 on the front bar. This is plenty enough regen in between lich and potion procs while fighting stamina characters, and you will actually over sustain while fighting Magicka characters because of harness Magicka.
It's 1268 on front and 1458 on back for my vampire High Elf, with 75 points in Arcanist. 1422/1637 with Major Intellect up.
NOT. ENOUGH.
I'm a little confused why our numbers are so different I just put that gear on my sorc and have 1644 regen on the front bar (1865 with pot) and 1848 on the back bar. What mundus stone are you using? With you being vamp your regen should be even higher than mine. Either way arguing over regen is pointless some players need more than others based on playstyle. All sustain sets is in no way a must for sorc though, and adding a damage set will make your burst much more potent. If you can find away to need less sustain which is 100% manageable you will open up your build to being able to actually win a fight and not just sustain forever.
Mage mundus for 2k mag. Without it, I should have like 48k mag, not the desired 50. And that's with big pieces infused.
Yes, you need a lot of sustain on sorc. 1800 mag regen is not enough. And if you think Dark Conversion covers your needs, during the channel you'll take so much damage that you'll have to re-shield right after, immediately spending that gained magicka.
And you'll want additional stamina to dodge and maybe block in a while, or the first Talon DK or Cripple NB that comes your way completely incapacitates you.
Not to mention the occassional poison...
There's a good reason Shackle/Lich became the meta after Morrowind dropped. That is the amount of sustain needed, and if you forego one set, you have to make up. Purpale Slushii, for example, has a YT video on that Necro/Lich/Shadow/WP build, and he has 1500 spell damage unbuffed. That's the sacrifice he makes.
i think one bit your missing is the varrying skill levels, to say all sorcs cant sustain off 1800 regen is assuming every sorc is you.I run 1600 regen max on all but my mag warden(1900) and thats because i haven't gotten a grip of the class just yet.
On mag sorc specifically i run Exactly 1600 on my backbar. I also use dampen magic instead of harness. Everyone has varrying levels of resource management.
I share that opinion with some of the very best sorc players. Maybe it's you?
And I promise you someone like me could just run you out of resources and then kill you easily, no matter the skill level. And don't forget about poisons!
just because a sorc is "good" doesn't mean that they have particularly great resource management. Good DKs say burning embers is a must have.I Dont run it and im very strong on my magdk. Please don't make assumptions. It diminishes your argument greatly. people are more likely to respond negativley to your suggestions/statements if you assume something so circumstantial.Also i didnt forget about poisons, especially the magic drain ones.XB1 GT- Cali Made
Praetorian Stam DK Redguard
Brigadier Stam/magblade (whatever i feel like running) Redguard
Major Mag DK Dark Elf
lieutenant Mag/stamplar (whatever i feel like running) Redguard0 -
GawdSB✭✭✭✭✭Rune Cage needs to be fixed and all will be fine. To me Stamblades in PVP are the strongest and most exhausting class.3
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Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭thankyourat wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »Liam,
Sorcs MUST wear two sustain sets, because their class resource management (even with Conversion) is crap. It's a burden, not a luxury. Throwing in a damage set means you need to sacrifice something to make up.
Ragna,
Debatable. Continued burst is dangerous, but so are DoTs, roots, snares and raw dps.
Thankyou,
Running tristat food on the Necro/Lich/Shadow/Willpower combo means you're missing magicka regen from your food. What you ignore is that 50k mag builds usually sacrifice spellpower glyphs for sustain, having as low spell damage as 1800. A stat that gets buffed by Minor/Major Sorcery and Continuous Attack, which max mag doesn't benefit from.
With shadowrend and lich you have 3 lines of Magicka regen not counting the lich proc which boost regen even further. you don't need more regen than this. With this you already have close to 4000 regen when lich proc as well as tri pots for emergency situations. If this isn't enough regen you are playing badly. You can also get around 3k spell damage buffed with a damage glyph on your weapon. using 3 sustain sets is just overkill.
Two. Two lines. Lich four-piece mag regen is exclusive to backbar. You have 1200 regen on front, where you're most of the time.
But you have 3 total lines of regen on your build also 2 lines of regen on the front bar is more than 1200 it's a little over 1700 and around 1900 on the back bar if you are a high elf that's without the 10% from potions and without being a vampire. With your potion you will be close to 1900 on the front bar. This is plenty enough regen in between lich and potion procs while fighting stamina characters, and you will actually over sustain while fighting Magicka characters because of harness Magicka.
It's 1268 on front and 1458 on back for my vampire High Elf, with 75 points in Arcanist. 1422/1637 with Major Intellect up.
NOT. ENOUGH.
I'm a little confused why our numbers are so different I just put that gear on my sorc and have 1644 regen on the front bar (1865 with pot) and 1848 on the back bar. What mundus stone are you using? With you being vamp your regen should be even higher than mine. Either way arguing over regen is pointless some players need more than others based on playstyle. All sustain sets is in no way a must for sorc though, and adding a damage set will make your burst much more potent. If you can find away to need less sustain which is 100% manageable you will open up your build to being able to actually win a fight and not just sustain forever.
Mage mundus for 2k mag. Without it, I should have like 48k mag, not the desired 50. And that's with big pieces infused.
Yes, you need a lot of sustain on sorc. 1800 mag regen is not enough. And if you think Dark Conversion covers your needs, during the channel you'll take so much damage that you'll have to re-shield right after, immediately spending that gained magicka.
And you'll want additional stamina to dodge and maybe block in a while, or the first Talon DK or Cripple NB that comes your way completely incapacitates you.
Not to mention the occassional poison...
There's a good reason Shackle/Lich became the meta after Morrowind dropped. That is the amount of sustain needed, and if you forego one set, you have to make up. Purpale Slushii, for example, has a YT video on that Necro/Lich/Shadow/WP build, and he has 1500 spell damage unbuffed. That's the sacrifice he makes.
i think one bit your missing is the varrying skill levels, to say all sorcs cant sustain off 1800 regen is assuming every sorc is you.I run 1600 regen max on all but my mag warden(1900) and thats because i haven't gotten a grip of the class just yet.
On mag sorc specifically i run Exactly 1600 on my backbar. I also use dampen magic instead of harness. Everyone has varrying levels of resource management.
I share that opinion with some of the very best sorc players. Maybe it's you?
And I promise you someone like me could just run you out of resources and then kill you easily, no matter the skill level. And don't forget about poisons!
just because a sorc is "good" doesn't mean that they have particularly great resource management. Good DKs say burning embers is a must have.I Dont run it and im very strong on my magdk. Please don't make assumptions. It diminishes your argument greatly. people are more likely to respond negativley to your suggestions/statements if you assume something so circumstantial.Also i didnt forget about poisons, especially the magic drain ones.
Bold statement you have there. And very questionable.
What if I said now I could work fine with 900 mag regen?0 -
Killset✭✭✭✭
And that’s why I said Sorc arguably benefits the most from it. Not exclusively.
Destro staff counting as 2 set pieces and the buff to Destro light/heavy attack damage. Those are two more massive buffs, that arguably, Sorc benefits the most from. Don’t forget those little changes.The most balanced sorcs ever were was when Frags was overloaded. The entire combo revolved around landing that skill. If it didn't land, the rotation was wasted. Wins came from setting up frags, which required skill vs a non-idiot.
ZoS decided to change this without understanding how the classes offensive rotation actually worked. Take out Rune Cage damage and the class won't kill anything. Add Rune Cage damage, class kills everything. This was the only real change from DB to SS. So that's what...9k more tooltip damage and around 2k more magicka from running willpower?
Sorc power creep was substantially less than most other classes set wise. The only big change was rune cage--which every good sorc argued against. Rune Cage is the issues, the sorc class itself is actually very weak compared to top performing classes. Only thing sorc has is ability to reset fights, which (good) stamblades can do better.
Funny how nobody complained about sorcs in DB but come SS it's "sorcs OP" when the only real change was Rune Cage. Shouldn't the argument than be "Rune Cage op"? Or is logic something that escapes full divines medium night blades completely?
If only other classes could play Destro staff. If only other classes could get that elusive 2 set pieces and the buff to light/heavy damage.
Oh, wait. Everyone got that.
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Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
And that’s why I said Sorc arguably benefits the most from it. Not exclusively.
Destro staff counting as 2 set pieces and the buff to Destro light/heavy attack damage. Those are two more massive buffs, that arguably, Sorc benefits the most from. Don’t forget those little changes.The most balanced sorcs ever were was when Frags was overloaded. The entire combo revolved around landing that skill. If it didn't land, the rotation was wasted. Wins came from setting up frags, which required skill vs a non-idiot.
ZoS decided to change this without understanding how the classes offensive rotation actually worked. Take out Rune Cage damage and the class won't kill anything. Add Rune Cage damage, class kills everything. This was the only real change from DB to SS. So that's what...9k more tooltip damage and around 2k more magicka from running willpower?
Sorc power creep was substantially less than most other classes set wise. The only big change was rune cage--which every good sorc argued against. Rune Cage is the issues, the sorc class itself is actually very weak compared to top performing classes. Only thing sorc has is ability to reset fights, which (good) stamblades can do better.
Funny how nobody complained about sorcs in DB but come SS it's "sorcs OP" when the only real change was Rune Cage. Shouldn't the argument than be "Rune Cage op"? Or is logic something that escapes full divines medium night blades completely?
If only other classes could play Destro staff. If only other classes could get that elusive 2 set pieces and the buff to light/heavy damage.
Oh, wait. Everyone got that.
Ranged magblade says ‘hi, you forgot about me’
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Killset✭✭✭✭
Nope... I didn’t.
And that’s why I said Sorc arguably benefits the most from it. Not exclusively.
Destro staff counting as 2 set pieces and the buff to Destro light/heavy attack damage. Those are two more massive buffs, that arguably, Sorc benefits the most from. Don’t forget those little changes.The most balanced sorcs ever were was when Frags was overloaded. The entire combo revolved around landing that skill. If it didn't land, the rotation was wasted. Wins came from setting up frags, which required skill vs a non-idiot.
ZoS decided to change this without understanding how the classes offensive rotation actually worked. Take out Rune Cage damage and the class won't kill anything. Add Rune Cage damage, class kills everything. This was the only real change from DB to SS. So that's what...9k more tooltip damage and around 2k more magicka from running willpower?
Sorc power creep was substantially less than most other classes set wise. The only big change was rune cage--which every good sorc argued against. Rune Cage is the issues, the sorc class itself is actually very weak compared to top performing classes. Only thing sorc has is ability to reset fights, which (good) stamblades can do better.
Funny how nobody complained about sorcs in DB but come SS it's "sorcs OP" when the only real change was Rune Cage. Shouldn't the argument than be "Rune Cage op"? Or is logic something that escapes full divines medium night blades completely?
If only other classes could play Destro staff. If only other classes could get that elusive 2 set pieces and the buff to light/heavy damage.
Oh, wait. Everyone got that.
Ranged magblade says ‘hi, you forgot about me’
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Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Rune cage and mages wrath are the issues.
Revert rune cage to a non damaging disorient on taking damage and give e frag back the stun.
Reduce the mages wrath window to 2 seconds from 4.
Mag sorc would still be strong but not broken.
2 seconds is too short. That's not enough time to throw a Cage and a Frag... The Frag will land too late because it has around a 500 ms travel time.#CAREBEARMASTERRACE0 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »Rune cage and mages wrath are the issues.
Revert rune cage to a non damaging disorient on taking damage and give e frag back the stun.
Reduce the mages wrath window to 2 seconds from 4.
Mag sorc would still be strong but not broken.
2 seconds is too short. That's not enough time to throw a Cage and a Frag... The Frag will land too late because it has around a 500 ms travel time.
Umm this math is not adding up.1 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Overload and rune cage do need some nerfs, other than that mag sorcs in general are fine.0 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »Rune cage and mages wrath are the issues.
Revert rune cage to a non damaging disorient on taking damage and give e frag back the stun.
Reduce the mages wrath window to 2 seconds from 4.
Mag sorc would still be strong but not broken.
2 seconds is too short. That's not enough time to throw a Cage and a Frag... The Frag will land too late because it has around a 500 ms travel time.
Too bad. Some people like the ability to defend themselves.2