ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Hey everyone,
We understand you're frustrated and disappointed there won't be any additional changes to class balance. No, really. That isn't a canned response - the frustration today has been noticed. While we did implement several changes to class balance in the first PTS patch, there's still more to be done. Unfortunately, there simply aren't enough hours in the day to do everything and we don't want to implement changes sloppily (which will introduce loads of risk to other abilities and systems). In these cases, we need to prioritize. As mentioned earlier this morning, the current priority is making sure the new item sets are balanced and fixing outstanding bugs, among a few other things.
It's worth noting we are still moving forward with the Class Representative Program mentioned a few weeks back, and are still in the process of narrowing down the nominations to a group of about 10-12 players. To give you some insight, we've gotten it down to about 30 players as of today. This program will help give us additional insight to the current class pain points and, if everything works as planned, open up the dialogue between everyone to give some more transparency which we know could use some improvement. We hope to have this spun up by time Summerset launches, so it will be soon.
As far as the PTS class feedback threads, these do prove to be useful to have everything centralized in a single thread. In the future, though, we're talking about limiting these threads to the updates where we plan to actively make changes to class abilities to better set expectations.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Hey everyone,
We understand you're frustrated and disappointed there won't be any additional changes to class balance. No, really. That isn't a canned response - the frustration today has been noticed. While we did implement several changes to class balance in the first PTS patch, there's still more to be done. Unfortunately, there simply aren't enough hours in the day to do everything and we don't want to implement changes sloppily (which will introduce loads of risk to other abilities and systems). In these cases, we need to prioritize. As mentioned earlier this morning, the current priority is making sure the new item sets are balanced and fixing outstanding bugs, among a few other things.
It's worth noting we are still moving forward with the Class Representative Program mentioned a few weeks back, and are still in the process of narrowing down the nominations to a group of about 10-12 players. To give you some insight, we've gotten it down to about 30 players as of today. This program will help give us additional insight to the current class pain points and, if everything works as planned, open up the dialogue between everyone to give some more transparency which we know could use some improvement. We hope to have this spun up by time Summerset launches, so it will be soon.
As far as the PTS class feedback threads, these do prove to be useful to have everything centralized in a single thread. In the future, though, we're talking about limiting these threads to the updates where we plan to actively make changes to class abilities to better set expectations.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Hey everyone,
We understand you're frustrated and disappointed there won't be any additional changes to class balance. No, really. That isn't a canned response - the frustration today has been noticed. While we did implement several changes to class balance in the first PTS patch, there's still more to be done. Unfortunately, there simply aren't enough hours in the day to do everything and we don't want to implement changes sloppily (which will introduce loads of risk to other abilities and systems). In these cases, we need to prioritize. As mentioned earlier this morning, the current priority is making sure the new item sets are balanced and fixing outstanding bugs, among a few other things.
It's worth noting we are still moving forward with the Class Representative Program mentioned a few weeks back, and are still in the process of narrowing down the nominations to a group of about 10-12 players. To give you some insight, we've gotten it down to about 30 players as of today. This program will help give us additional insight to the current class pain points and, if everything works as planned, open up the dialogue between everyone to give some more transparency which we know could use some improvement. We hope to have this spun up by time Summerset launches, so it will be soon.
As far as the PTS class feedback threads, these do prove to be useful to have everything centralized in a single thread. In the future, though, we're talking about limiting these threads to the updates where we plan to actively make changes to class abilities to better set expectations.
jediprime74 wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Hey everyone,
We understand you're frustrated and disappointed there won't be any additional changes to class balance. No, really. That isn't a canned response - the frustration today has been noticed. While we did implement several changes to class balance in the first PTS patch, there's still more to be done. Unfortunately, there simply aren't enough hours in the day to do everything and we don't want to implement changes sloppily (which will introduce loads of risk to other abilities and systems). In these cases, we need to prioritize. As mentioned earlier this morning, the current priority is making sure the new item sets are balanced and fixing outstanding bugs, among a few other things.
It's worth noting we are still moving forward with the Class Representative Program mentioned a few weeks back, and are still in the process of narrowing down the nominations to a group of about 10-12 players. To give you some insight, we've gotten it down to about 30 players as of today. This program will help give us additional insight to the current class pain points and, if everything works as planned, open up the dialogue between everyone to give some more transparency which we know could use some improvement. We hope to have this spun up by time Summerset launches, so it will be soon.
As far as the PTS class feedback threads, these do prove to be useful to have everything centralized in a single thread. In the future, though, we're talking about limiting these threads to the updates where we plan to actively make changes to class abilities to better set expectations.
@ZOS_GinaBruno
Would you be so kind as to give us an update on the issue of werewolf light attack damage? It received a 40% nerf, which was not indicated in any of the Patch Notes, and the thread dedicated to discussing that issue has received no response from any ZOS employee, so we are unsure if the issue is a bug or if it was intentional. If the former, it would be nice to see an acknowledgment and some idea of whether it is being fixed. If it is the latter, we would very much like for it to be included in Patch Notes along with an explanation of why the bread and butter damage mechanic for Werewolves is being nerfed to the point that most of those running WW builds will drop that skill line entirely.
We understand you're frustrated and disappointed there won't be any additional changes to class balance.
b.bredfeldtub17_ESO wrote: »The worst thing zos can do is end up homogenizing all the classes to appease a few peoples misguided quest for "balance".
Implying homogenization is the only way to get good balance. Just because it's the method most devs turn to doesn't mean it's the only method. It's the easiest/laziest and most devs are both bad at it and uninterested, as they're almost all corporate shills who just want to do whatever their bosses tell them to do to keep their job.
I always idolized game programmers as some kind of cool people. If normal programmers were mail delivery drivers or schoolbus drivers, game devs were the racecar drivers. In it for the passion with full latitude to do what they want so long as they won in the end (winning meaning sell enough to justify the dev costs).
Come to realize they're just semi-truck drivers who are still just doing the job to get paid like any normal person who tolerates their work life.
We understand you're frustrated and disappointed there won't be any additional changes to class balance.
@ZOS_GinaBruno
To me it’s not about that there are still balancing issues that need to be addressed, it’s about the changes that have been done and that have been absolutely baffling. Even if you take the developer comments into account there isn’t a thorough design vision that I can perceive.
Some examples from the feedback threads:
- You take the stun off the Deep Fissure, the reason being a high damage ability shouldn’t provide a CC. While that’s reasonable, it’s also inconsistent because there are high damage abilities that provide a CC still in the game (Incapacitating Strike for example). Also magWarden has no class CC now.
- Rune Cage. You adjusted the damage of Crystal Fragments downwards twice because it was hitting too hard apparently and had a CC (which you removed), and then you go and add unblockable and unavoidable damage to the class hard CC. Why, oh why?
- Overload light attacks. Including these into the new damage power light attacks wield is a big mistake. Empowered Overload light attacks that you can force with Rune Cage shouldn’t be a thing.
- Incapacitating Strike. Still one of the most overloaded abilities in the game. Yet it remains untouched despite being a hard CC, having high damage, applying major defile, and boosting damage by 20% for six seconds (which is even stronger now because everyone else lost Empower on skills).
- Major Defile. No changes to it, and especially no changes to the befoul CP star. It remains one of the most accessible and strongest debuffs in the game (hello Durok‘s Bane). The feedback about it was totally ignored.
- New proc sets sporting Oblivion damage. I so hoped to never see a set again that provides oblivion damage. Yet here we are. I don’t understand why oblivion damage is not a pve exclusive mechanic.
There is many more, but the above would have been easy changes. And what’s so disturbing to me is that these things show a serious issue with the underlying game design vision. Or is it the intent to go back to unavoidable damage and players one shotting each other with close to no counterplay? I’d really love to know what the devs want this game to be, especially in PvP.
Thanks for your kind consideration.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Hey everyone,
We understand you're frustrated and disappointed there won't be any additional changes to class balance. No, really. That isn't a canned response - the frustration today has been noticed. While we did implement several changes to class balance in the first PTS patch, there's still more to be done. Unfortunately, there simply aren't enough hours in the day to do everything and we don't want to implement changes sloppily (which will introduce loads of risk to other abilities and systems). In these cases, we need to prioritize. As mentioned earlier this morning, the current priority is making sure the new item sets are balanced and fixing outstanding bugs, among a few other things.
It's worth noting we are still moving forward with the Class Representative Program mentioned a few weeks back, and are still in the process of narrowing down the nominations to a group of about 10-12 players. To give you some insight, we've gotten it down to about 30 players as of today. This program will help give us additional insight to the current class pain points and, if everything works as planned, open up the dialogue between everyone to give some more transparency which we know could use some improvement. We hope to have this spun up by time Summerset launches, so it will be soon.
As far as the PTS class feedback threads, these do prove to be useful to have everything centralized in a single thread. In the future, though, we're talking about limiting these threads to the updates where we plan to actively make changes to class abilities to better set expectations.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »jediprime74 wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Hey everyone,
We understand you're frustrated and disappointed there won't be any additional changes to class balance. No, really. That isn't a canned response - the frustration today has been noticed. While we did implement several changes to class balance in the first PTS patch, there's still more to be done. Unfortunately, there simply aren't enough hours in the day to do everything and we don't want to implement changes sloppily (which will introduce loads of risk to other abilities and systems). In these cases, we need to prioritize. As mentioned earlier this morning, the current priority is making sure the new item sets are balanced and fixing outstanding bugs, among a few other things.
It's worth noting we are still moving forward with the Class Representative Program mentioned a few weeks back, and are still in the process of narrowing down the nominations to a group of about 10-12 players. To give you some insight, we've gotten it down to about 30 players as of today. This program will help give us additional insight to the current class pain points and, if everything works as planned, open up the dialogue between everyone to give some more transparency which we know could use some improvement. We hope to have this spun up by time Summerset launches, so it will be soon.
As far as the PTS class feedback threads, these do prove to be useful to have everything centralized in a single thread. In the future, though, we're talking about limiting these threads to the updates where we plan to actively make changes to class abilities to better set expectations.
@ZOS_GinaBruno
Would you be so kind as to give us an update on the issue of werewolf light attack damage? It received a 40% nerf, which was not indicated in any of the Patch Notes, and the thread dedicated to discussing that issue has received no response from any ZOS employee, so we are unsure if the issue is a bug or if it was intentional. If the former, it would be nice to see an acknowledgment and some idea of whether it is being fixed. If it is the latter, we would very much like for it to be included in Patch Notes along with an explanation of why the bread and butter damage mechanic for Werewolves is being nerfed to the point that most of those running WW builds will drop that skill line entirely.
Just replied to that thread, but we've seen it and are digging in to see what's going on.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Hey everyone,
We understand you're frustrated and disappointed there won't be any additional changes to class balance. No, really. That isn't a canned response - the frustration today has been noticed. While we did implement several changes to class balance in the first PTS patch, there's still more to be done. Unfortunately, there simply aren't enough hours in the day to do everything and we don't want to implement changes sloppily (which will introduce loads of risk to other abilities and systems). In these cases, we need to prioritize. As mentioned earlier this morning, the current priority is making sure the new item sets are balanced and fixing outstanding bugs, among a few other things.
It's worth noting we are still moving forward with the Class Representative Program mentioned a few weeks back, and are still in the process of narrowing down the nominations to a group of about 10-12 players. To give you some insight, we've gotten it down to about 30 players as of today. This program will help give us additional insight to the current class pain points and, if everything works as planned, open up the dialogue between everyone to give some more transparency which we know could use some improvement. We hope to have this spun up by time Summerset launches, so it will be soon.
As far as the PTS class feedback threads, these do prove to be useful to have everything centralized in a single thread. In the future, though, we're talking about limiting these threads to the updates where we plan to actively make changes to class abilities to better set expectations.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »jediprime74 wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Hey everyone,
We understand you're frustrated and disappointed there won't be any additional changes to class balance. No, really. That isn't a canned response - the frustration today has been noticed. While we did implement several changes to class balance in the first PTS patch, there's still more to be done. Unfortunately, there simply aren't enough hours in the day to do everything and we don't want to implement changes sloppily (which will introduce loads of risk to other abilities and systems). In these cases, we need to prioritize. As mentioned earlier this morning, the current priority is making sure the new item sets are balanced and fixing outstanding bugs, among a few other things.
It's worth noting we are still moving forward with the Class Representative Program mentioned a few weeks back, and are still in the process of narrowing down the nominations to a group of about 10-12 players. To give you some insight, we've gotten it down to about 30 players as of today. This program will help give us additional insight to the current class pain points and, if everything works as planned, open up the dialogue between everyone to give some more transparency which we know could use some improvement. We hope to have this spun up by time Summerset launches, so it will be soon.
As far as the PTS class feedback threads, these do prove to be useful to have everything centralized in a single thread. In the future, though, we're talking about limiting these threads to the updates where we plan to actively make changes to class abilities to better set expectations.
@ZOS_GinaBruno
Would you be so kind as to give us an update on the issue of werewolf light attack damage? It received a 40% nerf, which was not indicated in any of the Patch Notes, and the thread dedicated to discussing that issue has received no response from any ZOS employee, so we are unsure if the issue is a bug or if it was intentional. If the former, it would be nice to see an acknowledgment and some idea of whether it is being fixed. If it is the latter, we would very much like for it to be included in Patch Notes along with an explanation of why the bread and butter damage mechanic for Werewolves is being nerfed to the point that most of those running WW builds will drop that skill line entirely.
Just replied to that thread, but we've seen it and are digging in to see what's going on.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Hey everyone,
We understand you're frustrated and disappointed there won't be any additional changes to class balance. No, really. That isn't a canned response - the frustration today has been noticed. While we did implement several changes to class balance in the first PTS patch, there's still more to be done. Unfortunately, there simply aren't enough hours in the day to do everything and we don't want to implement changes sloppily (which will introduce loads of risk to other abilities and systems). In these cases, we need to prioritize. As mentioned earlier this morning, the current priority is making sure the new item sets are balanced and fixing outstanding bugs, among a few other things.
It's worth noting we are still moving forward with the Class Representative Program mentioned a few weeks back, and are still in the process of narrowing down the nominations to a group of about 10-12 players. To give you some insight, we've gotten it down to about 30 players as of today. This program will help give us additional insight to the current class pain points and, if everything works as planned, open up the dialogue between everyone to give some more transparency which we know could use some improvement. We hope to have this spun up by time Summerset launches, so it will be soon.
As far as the PTS class feedback threads, these do prove to be useful to have everything centralized in a single thread. In the future, though, we're talking about limiting these threads to the updates where we plan to actively make changes to class abilities to better set expectations.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
We understand you're frustrated and disappointed there won't be any additional changes to class balance.
@ZOS_GinaBruno
To me it’s not about that there are still balancing issues that need to be addressed, it’s about the changes that have been done and that have been absolutely baffling. Even if you take the developer comments into account there isn’t a thorough design vision that I can perceive.
Some examples from the feedback threads:
- You take the stun off the Deep Fissure, the reason being a high damage ability shouldn’t provide a CC. While that’s reasonable, it’s also inconsistent because there are high damage abilities that provide a CC still in the game (Incapacitating Strike for example). Also magWarden has no class CC now.
- Rune Cage. You adjusted the damage of Crystal Fragments downwards twice because it was hitting too hard apparently and had a CC (which you removed), and then you go and add unblockable and unavoidable damage to the class hard CC. Why, oh why?
- Overload light attacks. Including these into the new damage power light attacks wield is a big mistake. Empowered Overload light attacks that you can force with Rune Cage shouldn’t be a thing.
- Incapacitating Strike. Still one of the most overloaded abilities in the game. Yet it remains untouched despite being a hard CC, having high damage, applying major defile, and boosting damage by 20% for six seconds (which is even stronger now because everyone else lost Empower on skills).
- Major Defile. No changes to it, and especially no changes to the befoul CP star. It remains one of the most accessible and strongest debuffs in the game (hello Durok‘s Bane). The feedback about it was totally ignored.
- New proc sets sporting Oblivion damage. I so hoped to never see a set again that provides oblivion damage. Yet here we are. I don’t understand why oblivion damage is not a pve exclusive mechanic.
There is many more, but the above would have been easy changes. And what’s so disturbing to me is that these things show a serious issue with the underlying game design vision. Or is it the intent to go back to unavoidable damage and players one shotting each other with close to no counterplay? I’d really love to know what the devs want this game to be, especially in PvP.
Thanks for your kind consideration.
Joy_Division wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Hey everyone,
We understand you're frustrated and disappointed there won't be any additional changes to class balance. No, really. That isn't a canned response - the frustration today has been noticed. While we did implement several changes to class balance in the first PTS patch, there's still more to be done. Unfortunately, there simply aren't enough hours in the day to do everything and we don't want to implement changes sloppily (which will introduce loads of risk to other abilities and systems). In these cases, we need to prioritize. As mentioned earlier this morning, the current priority is making sure the new item sets are balanced and fixing outstanding bugs, among a few other things.
It's worth noting we are still moving forward with the Class Representative Program mentioned a few weeks back, and are still in the process of narrowing down the nominations to a group of about 10-12 players. To give you some insight, we've gotten it down to about 30 players as of today. This program will help give us additional insight to the current class pain points and, if everything works as planned, open up the dialogue between everyone to give some more transparency which we know could use some improvement. We hope to have this spun up by time Summerset launches, so it will be soon.
As far as the PTS class feedback threads, these do prove to be useful to have everything centralized in a single thread. In the future, though, we're talking about limiting these threads to the updates where we plan to actively make changes to class abilities to better set expectations.
The last thing I want are sloppy changes that aren't thought out or broken item/systems coming in an update in an effort to placate the masses.
I'm fine with the focus being on the new content, jewelry crafting, on the new skillline, and the new sets. I did not expect a major (or even minor) class balance changes regardless of what was written before.
It's not even about this update. For the past year, the combat changes have been focused on stuff that I can't say is very exciting for me: light attacks (Summerset), Off-balance and heavy attacks (I forget, Dragon bones or Clockwork City or both), and the big resource-sustain "adjustments" (Morrowind). While I am sure someone can write an essay of how these changes make for more tactical combat, I don't log on every night to play getting fired up knowing my light attack is going to do x% more damage or here's a 5 second window where the boss is immune and I can get a few more resources if I heavy attack (which I can't because the boss is invulnerable or there's some mechanic I have to avoid). I fell in love with this game before all that stuff was added. Every fantasy or RPG game I played that was any fun at all involved building a character that could do interesting and intellectual stimulating things that were outside the "normal" basic attack/defense routine (i.e. in this game light/heavy attacks and passive defense) and were things I have to devote choices we get from leveling up to do (i.e. character progression). We're getting a little of this in the psijic line, but that's the problem: we're only getting a little of this in something that's outside my class, available to everyone else, and it's not nearly enough to make up for all the nerfs and adjustments since Homestead.
Classes are important. They represent the core of the building blocks we use to create our hero and should receive priority over things like light attacks and off-balance mechanics. To me, it's not enough that my class can finish difficult content if in my mind I could have done better on something else. That's the problem that people who claim "the class can complete X, it's fine" does not understand. If the class *feels* weak while playing it, that's precisely the opposite of why I play these sorts of games. I don't want to feel weak. These games try to make you the hero who saves the world for a reason. We want THAT feeling.
If I mained a magicka warden, and I'm glad I don't, I'd be disappointed regardless if some people can post a respectable target dummy parse (using a specific setup with a bear). I don't play this game for target dummy parses. I want to be able to CC an opposing player and perhaps follow that up with a killing blow without the safety of a zerg to protect me. The past year's worth of changes have made it exceptionally more difficult to do just that so we're at probably the one the worst feeling people can have in playing an fantasy/RPG games: frustration playing the game because the character I want to play feels gimped, feels handicapped, feels weak, feels if they made the "wrong" choice.
and they made plenty of changes to all the classes, that was their class balancing attempt. We may not like all the changes but PTS was to test the changes they already made, not to make a bunch of new changes.
As always, they will continue to tweak things and make more changes in the future and players will continue to complain about any changes made. If they did take note of any of the feedback from this PTS, you probably won't see those changes until the next big update.
They listen to our feedback, but that doesn't mean they have to implement it. If they implemented everything the community whined about Incap would heal its target, cloak would cause the user to spontaneously combust, dodge rolling would double the damage from undodgeable attacks (which btw all attacks would be undodgeable), and Oblivion damage would heal users with damage shields. Did I mention that all stam proc sets would be deleted, and only the magicka ones would remain?
Even though I don't agree with every change they make, I'm glad they don't balanced based on who QQs the most.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Hey everyone,
We understand you're frustrated and disappointed there won't be any additional changes to class balance. No, really. That isn't a canned response - the frustration today has been noticed. While we did implement several changes to class balance in the first PTS patch, there's still more to be done. Unfortunately, there simply aren't enough hours in the day to do everything and we don't want to implement changes sloppily (which will introduce loads of risk to other abilities and systems). In these cases, we need to prioritize. As mentioned earlier this morning, the current priority is making sure the new item sets are balanced and fixing outstanding bugs, among a few other things.
It's worth noting we are still moving forward with the Class Representative Program mentioned a few weeks back, and are still in the process of narrowing down the nominations to a group of about 10-12 players. To give you some insight, we've gotten it down to about 30 players as of today. This program will help give us additional insight to the current class pain points and, if everything works as planned, open up the dialogue between everyone to give some more transparency which we know could use some improvement. We hope to have this spun up by time Summerset launches, so it will be soon.
As far as the PTS class feedback threads, these do prove to be useful to have everything centralized in a single thread. In the future, though, we're talking about limiting these threads to the updates where we plan to actively make changes to class abilities to better set expectations.
Can you link a thread regarding this? Was it posted by Wrobel himself? Is there actual proof the Dev team said this? Gina Doesn't count, she's community relations lol. What she says and what the Dev's actually do... can be totally different.
I also want to make sure if there was any mention, that it wasn't mistaken as "Balance changes this Summer" Not Summerset. It's still spring where I live. Saying this summer could mean up to August. I'm not defending ZoS here, I just want to be sure we're all not crazy, or mislead by reading things differently.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Hey everyone,
We understand you're frustrated and disappointed there won't be any additional changes to class balance. No, really. That isn't a canned response - the frustration today has been noticed. While we did implement several changes to class balance in the first PTS patch, there's still more to be done. Unfortunately, there simply aren't enough hours in the day to do everything and we don't want to implement changes sloppily (which will introduce loads of risk to other abilities and systems). In these cases, we need to prioritize. As mentioned earlier this morning, the current priority is making sure the new item sets are balanced and fixing outstanding bugs, among a few other things.
It's worth noting we are still moving forward with the Class Representative Program mentioned a few weeks back, and are still in the process of narrowing down the nominations to a group of about 10-12 players. To give you some insight, we've gotten it down to about 30 players as of today. This program will help give us additional insight to the current class pain points and, if everything works as planned, open up the dialogue between everyone to give some more transparency which we know could use some improvement. We hope to have this spun up by time Summerset launches, so it will be soon.
As far as the PTS class feedback threads, these do prove to be useful to have everything centralized in a single thread. In the future, though, we're talking about limiting these threads to the updates where we plan to actively make changes to class abilities to better set expectations.
Thanks for the dialogue, Gina.
I guess the main disconnect here is that players' priorities and devs' priorities are in very different places. Of course there aren't enough hours in a day to create a new crafting system, quest content, and skill line while also revamping all five classes. We get that. Which is why we're frustrated that the devs, patch after patch, keep devoting their (understandably limited) time and energy to making new stuff instead of fixing our classes. "We didn't have enough time" misses the point -- to a lot of us, that sounds like a reason to not put out new content, not a reason to neglect existing content.
I understand that fixing existing issues is much harder to monetize than pumping out a new land to explore, but at some point in order to retain players you're going to need to make us feel like the time we're putting into the classes we play is time well spent.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Hey everyone,
We understand you're frustrated and disappointed there won't be any additional changes to class balance. No, really. That isn't a canned response - the frustration today has been noticed. While we did implement several changes to class balance in the first PTS patch, there's still more to be done. Unfortunately, there simply aren't enough hours in the day to do everything and we don't want to implement changes sloppily (which will introduce loads of risk to other abilities and systems). In these cases, we need to prioritize. As mentioned earlier this morning, the current priority is making sure the new item sets are balanced and fixing outstanding bugs, among a few other things.
It's worth noting we are still moving forward with the Class Representative Program mentioned a few weeks back, and are still in the process of narrowing down the nominations to a group of about 10-12 players. To give you some insight, we've gotten it down to about 30 players as of today. This program will help give us additional insight to the current class pain points and, if everything works as planned, open up the dialogue between everyone to give some more transparency which we know could use some improvement. We hope to have this spun up by time Summerset launches, so it will be soon.
As far as the PTS class feedback threads, these do prove to be useful to have everything centralized in a single thread. In the future, though, we're talking about limiting these threads to the updates where we plan to actively make changes to class abilities to better set expectations.
To be fair, every patch you guys peddle the same line that class-balance changes are coming with the next successive patch. I could go through the posts you've made, but I think you already know you've used that line pretty much every patch for the last couple of years.
Why should anyone believe that the Class Representative Program will be anymore successful than the hugely unsuccessful Monthly (now Quarterly? now finished? It's all very unclear) Combat Discussion program. Or why should anyone believe that the Class Representative Program will be anymore successful than the once quasi-informational Developer Insights included beneath patch notes that as of Summerset have withered up into banal commentary like, "We added a heal on this ability so that players now have access to an additional heal." (Thanks, it wasn't totally clear that an ability now had a healing component after reading that you added a healing component.)
If we're being absolutely honest, ZOS's follow-through with any of the formats designed to improve Developer-Player communication has been remarkably terrible. So why bother? It's clear you guys don't really care about player feedback. No, really, we're being honest: You don't actually care all that much. If you did, those failed programs would likely have been more successful. If you did, you wouldn't be threatening to limit class feedback threads in future update cycles (lol at that one btw - "we do care about feedback" and one paragraph later "we don't really want your feedback").
At a certain point you or your bosses need to accept that you're wasting more time than necessary trying to sell something your playerbase isn't buying anymore. Why not just try being honest, even if you think it isn't what we want to hear. It's clear your Development priorities aren't in step with the marketing line you're trying to tow. So just tell us how balancing is going to work from now on so we can all be on the same page for once.
Joy_Division wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Hey everyone,
We understand you're frustrated and disappointed there won't be any additional changes to class balance. No, really. That isn't a canned response - the frustration today has been noticed. While we did implement several changes to class balance in the first PTS patch, there's still more to be done. Unfortunately, there simply aren't enough hours in the day to do everything and we don't want to implement changes sloppily (which will introduce loads of risk to other abilities and systems). In these cases, we need to prioritize. As mentioned earlier this morning, the current priority is making sure the new item sets are balanced and fixing outstanding bugs, among a few other things.
It's worth noting we are still moving forward with the Class Representative Program mentioned a few weeks back, and are still in the process of narrowing down the nominations to a group of about 10-12 players. To give you some insight, we've gotten it down to about 30 players as of today. This program will help give us additional insight to the current class pain points and, if everything works as planned, open up the dialogue between everyone to give some more transparency which we know could use some improvement. We hope to have this spun up by time Summerset launches, so it will be soon.
As far as the PTS class feedback threads, these do prove to be useful to have everything centralized in a single thread. In the future, though, we're talking about limiting these threads to the updates where we plan to actively make changes to class abilities to better set expectations.
The last thing I want are sloppy changes that aren't thought out or broken item/systems coming in an update in an effort to placate the masses.
I'm fine with the focus being on the new content, jewelry crafting, on the new skillline, and the new sets. I did not expect a major (or even minor) class balance changes regardless of what was written before.
It's not even about this update. For the past year, the combat changes have been focused on stuff that I can't say is very exciting for me: light attacks (Summerset), Off-balance and heavy attacks (I forget, Dragon bones or Clockwork City or both), and the big resource-sustain "adjustments" (Morrowind). While I am sure someone can write an essay of how these changes make for more tactical combat, I don't log on every night to play getting fired up knowing my light attack is going to do x% more damage or here's a 5 second window where the boss is immune and I can get a few more resources if I heavy attack (which I can't because the boss is invulnerable or there's some mechanic I have to avoid). I fell in love with this game before all that stuff was added. Every fantasy or RPG game I played that was any fun at all involved building a character that could do interesting and intellectual stimulating things that were outside the "normal" basic attack/defense routine (i.e. in this game light/heavy attacks and passive defense) and were things I have to devote choices we get from leveling up to do (i.e. character progression). We're getting a little of this in the psijic line, but that's the problem: we're only getting a little of this in something that's outside my class, available to everyone else, and it's not nearly enough to make up for all the nerfs and adjustments since Homestead.
Classes are important. They represent the core of the building blocks we use to create our hero and should receive priority over things like light attacks and off-balance mechanics. To me, it's not enough that my class can finish difficult content if in my mind I could have done better on something else. That's the problem that people who claim "the class can complete X, it's fine" does not understand. If the class *feels* weak while playing it, that's precisely the opposite of why I play these sorts of games. I don't want to feel weak. These games try to make you the hero who saves the world for a reason. We want THAT feeling.
If I mained a magicka warden, and I'm glad I don't, I'd be disappointed regardless if some people can post a respectable target dummy parse (using a specific setup with a bear). I don't play this game for target dummy parses. I want to be able to CC an opposing player and perhaps follow that up with a killing blow without the safety of a zerg to protect me. The past year's worth of changes have made it exceptionally more difficult to do just that so we're at probably the one the worst feeling people can have in playing an fantasy/RPG games: frustration playing the game because the character I want to play feels gimped, feels handicapped, feels weak, feels if they made the "wrong" choice.
As someone who has mained a magden for over 33 days /played time I would say that this is most definitely the case... the class has suffered greatly... I have to completely change builds and playstyles each patch to try and stay relevant... but it just gets worse and worse relative to other classes... Now together with Templar, Magden is receiving several harsh nerfs... the removal of the stun from fissure in exchange for mag penetration really hurts it’s playstyle. While it does increase the damage magdens have against non shielded opponents it exacerbates magdens current issues by making it even harder to secure kills in PvP because it takes away our undodgeable cc and forced us to slot flame reach which is dodgeable and reflectable or borrow time which is way too slow of a channel at 2s or vamp drain which will cause ferocious leap and dawn breaker of smiting to hit way too hard... Furthermore this change kills off the already weak ice mage builds because ice staff has no on demand hard ccs and stuns are absolutely necessary for pvp. Next the increased cliff racer speed causes the ability to be extraordinarily difficult to time with fissure... so that’s a double harsh nerf to a class that was already really bad in pvp and the buffs to natures grasp and icy gate are not even close to rectifying the balance problems this will bring... what magden needs for pvp most is an easier to use stun in exchange for the one lost from fissure, some sort of spammable or dot execute so our better opponents don’t stay relaxed at 15% health with dodge vigor, healing ward, or that rediculous shimmering shield, and a class root or snare or ability to allow us to kite a play at range like the secondary effect of screaming cliff racer suggests
TLDR: balance doesn’t mean nerfing weak classes into extinction... it means the exact opposite really, we need an execute and a stun... not more nerfs