What is the point of PTS class feedback?

Hutch679 · May 2018

@ZOS_GinaBruno just mentioned there will be no further class changes in the Summersey update, thus confirming the initial PTS notes for class changes are final.

What's the point of giving class feedback for changes made in the initial PTS release if those are going to be the final changes? Why can't information be relayed to the player base? Seems to be too much focus on the crown store and not enough into combat balance.

PS. RIP Mag warden.

_Ahala_ · May 2018

They just want to get all classes to ~45k dps this patch it seems or allow buff some unpopular tank/healer setups... It doesn’t seem like pvp balance is even on the radar... and yes RIP Magden

Kilandros · May 2018

Obviously there is no point

Ley · May 2018

To make sure that none of the changes that were made in Summerset or new skills that were added were game breaking. I feel like people have a misconception of what PTS is intended for.

Hutch679 · May 2018

It just sucks getting responses like "we appreciate your feedback on class balance, but we will not make any changes this update even though we said we were going to". But the crown store is available for purchases should you chopse to turn your mag warden into a wardrobe mannequin.

Hutch679 · May 2018

Ley wrote: »

To make sure that none of the changes that were made in Summerset or new skills that were added were game breaking. I feel like people have a misconception of what PTS is intended for.

Except they specifically mentioned class balance was being implemented in summerset.

Waffennacht · May 2018

I'm at the point of

"Where the @#_& do you get your balancing from?"

Clearly it's not the PTS nor player base. It's always as if something snuck up on them.

Where, where did you get the idea to Remove the Stun from Deep Fissure but add damage to Rune Cage?

Seriously, who thought of this? Wasn't us

I doubt it's just one guy (wrobel) it's gotta be a group effort.

Did someone actually say these ideas out loud and the rest of you go, "Yes!"?

Seems...so... uninformed decision making

Ley · May 2018

Hutch679 wrote: »

Ley wrote: »

To make sure that none of the changes that were made in Summerset or new skills that were added were game breaking. I feel like people have a misconception of what PTS is intended for.

Except they specifically mentioned class balance was being implemented in summerset.

and they made plenty of changes to all the classes, that was their class balancing attempt. We may not like all the changes but PTS was to test the changes they already made, not to make a bunch of new changes.

As always, they will continue to tweak things and make more changes in the future and players will continue to complain about any changes made. If they did take note of any of the feedback from this PTS, you probably won't see those changes until the next big update.

Waffennacht · May 2018

Ley wrote: »

Hutch679 wrote: »

Ley wrote: »

To make sure that none of the changes that were made in Summerset or new skills that were added were game breaking. I feel like people have a misconception of what PTS is intended for.

Except they specifically mentioned class balance was being implemented in summerset.

and they made plenty of changes to all the classes, that was their class balancing attempt. We may not like all the changes but PTS was to test the changes they already made, not to make a bunch of new changes.

As always, they will continue to tweak things and make more changes in the future and players will continue to complain about any changes made. If they did take note of any of the feedback from this PTS, you probably won't see those changes until the next big update.

If what they said makes sense.

Did Incap get nerfed?
Did Leap get nerfed?
Did DS get nerfed?
Did rune cage get buffed or nerfed?

Then apply that logic to deep fissure....

Wtf?

Ludof · May 2018

Hutch679 wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno just mentioned there will be no further class changes in the Summersey update, thus confirming the initial PTS notes for class changes are final.

What's the point of giving class feedback for changes made in the initial PTS release if those are going to be the final changes? Why can't information be relayed to the player base? Seems to be too much focus on the crown store and not enough into combat balance.

PS. RIP Mag warden.

There's actually no point in testing for balance.
I tried anything and I couldn't find any viable build for magden PvP, which is the weakest class atm.

templesus · May 2018

It’s pretty clear, they make it seem like they will look at feedback and do further balance changes so people will actually test on the pts when in all actuality they aren’t going to pay any mind to the balance stuff only the bugs discovered.

booksmcread · May 2018

Hutch679 wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno just mentioned there will be no further class changes in the Summersey update, thus confirming the initial PTS notes for class changes are final.

What's the point of giving class feedback for changes made in the initial PTS release if those are going to be the final changes? Why can't information be relayed to the player base? Seems to be too much focus on the crown store and not enough into combat balance.

PS. RIP Mag warden.

I've yet to see any class balance changes as a result of PTS feedback threads, at least in reference to Warden and Templar. Those are the two classes I play the most. Dozens of threads, thousands of comments, many of which provided good feedback, players spending countless hours on the PTS and Live providing thorough breakdowns of bugs, skills not working as advertised, pain points in playing certain classes, etc....and nothing.

"Thanks for your feedback. tl'dr." - ZOS

Marabornwingrion · May 2018

Over 20 pages of feedback about strife cost increase, still no response from combat developers, it's just disrespectful.

Why the heck are you making threads for class balance if no ones from combat team reads them? Because if combat developers were reading them then we would get some responses from them.

I feel completely ignored by @ZOS_Wrobel and as well as many other players who put a lot of time and dedication into testing and providing feedback about upcoming changes.

If nobody is gonna read what we are writing, then you @ZOS_GinaBruno can save your time and stop creating these threads with every PTS.

I'm done.

Sandman929 · May 2018

Waffennacht wrote: »

I'm at the point of

"Where the @#_& do you get your balancing from?"

Clearly it's not the PTS nor player base. It's always as if something snuck up on them.

Where, where did you get the idea to Remove the Stun from Deep Fissure but add damage to Rune Cage?

Seriously, who thought of this? Wasn't us

I doubt it's just one guy (wrobel) it's gotta be a group effort.

Did someone actually say these ideas out loud and the rest of you go, "Yes!"?

Seems...so... uninformed decision making

I'm guessing there's some sort of board with ideas on note cards...then comes the blindfold and the dart throwing.

Ludof · May 2018

All I saw in these months it's nerf on Magden and Templar.

At the same time you have buffed already good classes.

My questions are:

Do look at provided feedbacks?
Have you ever played this game?

Morgul667 · May 2018

Last update i did a lot of pts , testing , sharing , feedback

No reply but more importantly most (if not all ) issues were not corrected. Critical bugs go live.

This time i just avoided PTS as i know it is just a waste of time and it will destroy the interest i have in the update, knowing they could have fixed the bugs but chose to ignore players.

Temeraire507 · May 2018

Don't be that pessimistic. They only said that they will 'focus on LA, HA, Psijic Line and Set balance for the TWO UPCOMING PTS PATCHES' They can change literally everything when summerset goes live. I would'nt even think that introducing some new changes with live would be that bad. Please calm down. They did not do anything that looks gamebreaking to me. You will still be able to play the game.

Blackmoon777 · May 2018

Don't be that pessimistic. They only said that they will 'focus on LA, HA, Psijic Line and Set balance for the TWO UPCOMING PTS PATCHES' They can change literally everything when summerset goes live. I would'nt even think that introducing some new changes with live would be that bad. Please calm down. They did not do anything that looks gamebreaking to me. You will still be able to play the game

there was never class changes with live

Marabornwingrion · May 2018

Temeraire507 wrote: »

Don't be that pessimistic. They only said that they will 'focus on LA, HA, Psijic Line and Set balance for the TWO UPCOMING PTS PATCHES' They can change literally everything when summerset goes live. I would'nt even think that introducing some new changes with live would be that bad. Please calm down. They did not do anything that looks gamebreaking to me. You will still be able to play the game.

They won't.

After big update leaves PTS and goes Live, they no longer make big changes into class and combat balance, and they focus only on fixing new bugs that came with new update.

b.bredfeldtub17_ESO · May 2018

I jumped ship from WoW to ESO recently again hoping ESO finally got it's crap together after pre-purchasing the Imperial edition and quickly losing interest.

I've come to understand that ESO devs are much like WoW devs in that balance is never their primary concern (or their philosophies are garbage... one of the two, the result being the same in that I dislike it severely) and that they don't actually collect and action feedback from players.

They just have these forums for players to vent, with no actual plans on changing their minds on anything they decide.

Essentially, most games just treat PTSs as "free QA testing to catch our mistakes" so the game has less bugs when they switch, which is why I rarely engage in PTS participation any more for ANY game. I'm not here to test your damn product. I'm here to tell you what I like and don't like about it and hopefully effect some change.

Tryxus · May 2018

The point? For Magicka Wardens to receive meme status

Strider__Roshin · May 2018

They listen to our feedback, but that doesn't mean they have to implement it. If they implemented everything the community whined about Incap would heal its target, cloak would cause the user to spontaneously combust, dodge rolling would double the damage from undodgeable attacks (which btw all attacks would be undodgeable), and Oblivion damage would heal users with damage shields. Did I mention that all stam proc sets would be deleted, and only the magicka ones would remain?

Even though I don't agree with every change they make, I'm glad they don't balanced based on who QQs the most.

IZZEFlameLash · May 2018

They serve a purpose of putting us in cages we belong to keep us from barking or bocking too much near their "serious" dev studio. So they can safely ignore and say there were no requested feedbacks on main patch threads or some stuff. This is getting too repetitive. It will take more than 10g and crown stuffs per day login to make me play for more than 30 minutes a week. They are clearly uninterested and only say they listen just for the sake of PR. It is not like they balance it from their own gameplay experience either because they don't play their own games and are probably much more concerned about getting 100% achievements on other studio games.

Lynx7386 · May 2018

It's quite clear ZOS just doesn't give a *** about it's customers anymore.

Cancelling my sub today, I can only take so much of this bull.

Universe · May 2018

I have kind of foreseen this so I posted very limited feedback related to class and combat balance in the last PTS cycle.
I remember there was very little change when I last posted anything related to combat balance if at all.

I hope that ZOS will make a list of all feedback provided and implement some changes when they feel it is the right time(future updates).
I trust ZOS to understand what is right and act according to what is best for the game.

Hutch679 · May 2018

Ley wrote: »

Hutch679 wrote: »

Just using "basic logic and reasoning skills".

Not sure those words mean what you think they mean.

On a side note, I wonder how long before our conversation gets deleted or the thread gets closed.

I'm sure it's already being reviewed, unlike the feedback threads for class changes on the PTS haha. Its all good man, I'm jk'ing with ya

TimeDazzler · May 2018

Stop buying crowns and move on to other MMO's

Like 75% of the hardcore pvpers already have.

Ley · May 2018

Hutch679 wrote: »

Ley wrote: »

Hutch679 wrote: »

Just using "basic logic and reasoning skills".

Not sure those words mean what you think they mean.

On a side note, I wonder how long before our conversation gets deleted or the thread gets closed.

I'm sure it's already being reviewed, unlike the feedback threads for class changes on the PTS haha. Its all good man, I'm jk'ing with ya

No hard feelings.

On topic though. All I've been trying to say is that ZOS said they were going to makes some balance changes and they did. I think we can agree that we didn't like all of the changes. However, the feedback provided during PTS isn't intended as much for short term changes, it may be beneficial in the long term. It's unrealistic to expect them to make any significant changes this late before releasing the new content that the changes are intended for. PTS is mostly to tweak minor things and make sure that the new content and changes didn't break the game in ways they didn't anticipate.

I like to remind myself that changes like this happen periodically and we all adapt (except those who rage quit).

Dreyloch · May 2018

Hutch679 wrote: »

Ley wrote: »

To make sure that none of the changes that were made in Summerset or new skills that were added were game breaking. I feel like people have a misconception of what PTS is intended for.

Except they specifically mentioned class balance was being implemented in summerset.

Can you link a thread regarding this? Was it posted by Wrobel himself? Is there actual proof the Dev team said this? Gina Doesn't count, she's community relations lol. What she says and what the Dev's actually do... can be totally different.

I also want to make sure if there was any mention, that it wasn't mistaken as "Balance changes this Summer" Not Summerset. It's still spring where I live. Saying this summer could mean up to August. I'm not defending ZoS here, I just want to be sure we're all not crazy, or mislead by reading things differently.

IZZEFlameLash · May 2018

Dreyloch wrote: »

Hutch679 wrote: »

Ley wrote: »

To make sure that none of the changes that were made in Summerset or new skills that were added were game breaking. I feel like people have a misconception of what PTS is intended for.

Except they specifically mentioned class balance was being implemented in summerset.

Can you link a thread regarding this? Was it posted by Wrobel himself? Is there actual proof the Dev team said this? Gina Doesn't count, she's community relations lol. What she says and what the Dev's actually do... can be totally different.

I also want to make sure if there was any mention, that it wasn't mistaken as "Balance changes this Summer" Not Summerset. It's still spring where I live. Saying this summer could mean up to August. I'm not defending ZoS here, I just want to be sure we're all not crazy, or mislead by reading things differently.

Unless you are new, you would already know their definition of summer is next huge expansion update and this is the huge expansion update of the summer. And given their history, quarterly DLC "expansion" are the only times they change anything. Yes, even the gamebreaking ones get fixed every 3 months unless it is something like super gamebreaking. In next 3 months, it won't be summer. It will be the start of Fall. So yes, hutch is correct.

NyassaV · May 2018

I just love how they made DK super powerful without buffing other classes. Literally every DK I've talked too (and the times I've played a DK but I'm used to more sustain) says they don't need more sustain and they need wings to work per person.

Welcome back DK meta