What is the point of PTS class feedback?

IZZEFlameLash

NyassaV wrote: »

I just love how they made DK super powerful without buffing other classes. Literally every DK I've talked too (and the times I've played a DK but I'm used to more sustain) says they don't need more sustain and they need wings to work per person.

Welcome back DK meta

I am at loss of words. NBs will still dominate the PvP. Period. Strife cost nerf did not break NB at all. It now just became a choice of more DPS or minor vitality. Other classes lived with 2.3k costs as minimum on their spammables. NBs will survive just fine.

Sandman929

And now the thread locking begins....I'm sure the reason is that the feedback they're ignoring isn't constructive enough.

Jeezye

Lol I was just about to create a rage thread This is so *** up seriously, ZOS' strategy to only balance the game in major updates 2-3 times a year by itself is hilarious, as they don't have the flexibility to react to exploits, broken mechanics and underperforming skills. Now if they at least fixed their game in the major updates, these cycles would last no more than a few months. Now they're telling me the dedicated "updates" arent "updating" the base game. What the hell is this, it feels like a kindergarden could brainstorm a better maintenance strategy.

Adenoma

@NyassaV , small side note - there are a number of posts about the burning embers heal being bugged and unrealistically large. I don't think you should use a 30k burning embers heal on the PTS as indicative of its performance.

There's also a cooldown on roots, so you can't be permanently rooted. I've fought you in Cyrodiil and you predominantly play magicka NB. Use mist to get out of their roots, then keep your range. If it's a DK that's good about keeping wings up, avoid them, otherwise defile them with incap.

NyassaV

Adenoma wrote: »

@NyassaV , small side note - there are a number of posts about the burning embers heal being bugged and unrealistically large. I don't think you should use a 30k burning embers heal on the PTS as indicative of its performance.

There's also a cooldown on roots, so you can't be permanently rooted. I've fought you in Cyrodiil and you predominantly play magicka NB. Use mist to get out of their roots, then keep your range. If it's a DK that's good about keeping wings up, avoid them, otherwise defile them with incap.

I had that on live a few weeks ago, my dear. And it went all the way through I didn't refresh it early, wearing sun DW with Dunmer passives probably helped but most DKs are built similarly. Mist is garbage but yeah

templesus

[edited to remove quotes]

I suggest you go look at every patch note released for summerset and then come back and tell me the changes made solely for stamplar. Here’s a hint: you won’t find any. Your original statement said plenty of changes were made for all the classes, my point is simply they in fact were not, as my class was left in the dust.

ZOS_JesC

Greetings, we've removed comments for baiting and personal insults. Please keep comments constructive and on topic. We understand members won't always agree on a topic, however conversation should remain civil. Thank you for your understanding.

Lucky28

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

I just love how they made DK super powerful without buffing other classes. Literally every DK I've talked too (and the times I've played a DK but I'm used to more sustain) says they don't need more sustain and they need wings to work per person.

Welcome back DK meta

I am at loss of words. NBs will still dominate the PvP. Period. Strife cost nerf did not break NB at all. It now just became a choice of more DPS or minor vitality. Other classes lived with 2.3k costs as minimum on their spammables. NBs will survive just fine.

it didn't break NB in general, no. it broke the skill. i'm going to be running crushing shock on my NB, i don't want to run Crushing shock on my NB i want to run strife (you know, play my *** class) but there is no point, Crushing shock is just flat better. that change doesn't change anything balance wise, just makes people use a skill they don't want to use.

a pointless change.

Subversus

Waffennacht wrote: »

I'm at the point of

"Where the @#_& do you get your balancing from?"

Clearly it's not the PTS nor player base. It's always as if something snuck up on them.

Where, where did you get the idea to Remove the Stun from Deep Fissure but add damage to Rune Cage?

Seriously, who thought of this? Wasn't us

I doubt it's just one guy (wrobel) it's gotta be a group effort.

Did someone actually say these ideas out loud and the rest of you go, "Yes!"?

Seems...so... uninformed decision making

Where do they get the balance ideas from? The forums. Go back a few weeks and look at the sorc threads: all the forum sorcs are crying as if sorc is the absolute worst class to play on. Disagree with them? They jumped on you like jackals on a bleeding antelope.

Fast forward those weeks and we’re back here.

ak_pvp

NyassaV wrote: »

I just love how they made DK super powerful without buffing other classes. Literally every DK I've talked too (and the times I've played a DK but I'm used to more sustain) says they don't need more sustain and they need wings to work per person.

Welcome back DK meta

Yes, they did, and that is why the DK changes were ultimately trash for PvP. They didn't even fix the massive nerf to lash last patch. Nor the useless snare removal.

The sustain was low for PvP, but you could work around it, having the worst class defense in game is unfixable.

KingShocker

Player base feedback: 80% combat, balance, and gameplay

Patch notes : 10% combat, balance, and gameplay

just a rough estimate.

Rohamad_Ali

Thanks for the nerfs ! I guess ? Wow . Brutal PTS year .

ak_pvp

Subversus wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I'm at the point of

"Where the @#_& do you get your balancing from?"

Clearly it's not the PTS nor player base. It's always as if something snuck up on them.

Where, where did you get the idea to Remove the Stun from Deep Fissure but add damage to Rune Cage?

Seriously, who thought of this? Wasn't us

I doubt it's just one guy (wrobel) it's gotta be a group effort.

Did someone actually say these ideas out loud and the rest of you go, "Yes!"?

Seems...so... uninformed decision making

Where do they get the balance ideas from? The forums. Go back a few weeks and look at the sorc threads: all the forum sorcs are crying as if sorc is the absolute worst class to play on. Disagree with them? They jumped on you like jackals on a bleeding antelope.

Fast forward those weeks and we’re back here.

Its not that they are the worst class, its that, like the other mid tier classes, Stamsorc, MagDK, Magden (pre nerf) and stamplar, the players who main it can see the glaring issues which the top classes don't have. Its a pain when things like this go through without any feedback.

Ley

templesus wrote: »

[edited to remove quotes]

I suggest you go look at every patch note released for summerset and then come back and tell me the changes made solely for stamplar. Here’s a hint: you won’t find any. Your original statement said plenty of changes were made for all the classes, my point is simply they in fact were not, as my class was left in the dust.

I see what is happening here.

Classes:

• Sorcerer
• Templar
• Nightblade
• Dragonknight
• Warden

StamPlar is a build/variation but last I checked it was still a Templar. The changes may have not been impactful to your build but the Templar class did receive multiple class changes.

Tanis-Stormbinder

You mean class nerf's

jwellsub17_ESO2

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

In next 3 months, it won't be summer. It will be the start of Fall. So yes, hutch is correct.

Umm. No. We still have over a month of Spring left, in fact it is not even half over yet. So, in 3 more months it will be almost halfway through summer... Not the start of fall.

January, February, March -- Winter
April, May, June -- Spring
July, August, September -- Summer
October, November, December -- Fall.

RebornV3x

There is no reason not like anything really changes between PTS and Live and none of the feedback is considered I guess the threads are good for a laugh or 2 in the ZOS breakroom that's about it.

Xvorg

Kilandros wrote: »

Obviously there is no point

Torbschka

Astrid_V wrote: »

Over 20 pages of feedback about strife cost increase, still no response from combat developers, it's just disrespectful.

Why the heck are you making threads for class balance if no ones from combat team reads them? Because if combat developers were reading them then we would get some responses from them.

I feel completely ignored by @ZOS_Wrobel and as well as many other players who put a lot of time and dedication into testing and providing feedback about upcoming changes.

If nobody is gonna read what we are writing, then you @ZOS_GinaBruno can save your time and stop creating these threads with every PTS.

I'm done.

This 100%

Hymzir

jwellsub17_ESO2 wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

In next 3 months, it won't be summer. It will be the start of Fall. So yes, hutch is correct.

Umm. No. We still have over a month of Spring left, in fact it is not even half over yet. So, in 3 more months it will be almost halfway through summer... Not the start of fall.

January, February, March -- Winter
April, May, June -- Spring
July, August, September -- Summer
October, November, December -- Fall.

Yeah... That's just not right, you know. Winter does not start with January... I mean, are you claiming that Christmas takes place in Autumn?

Winter months are December, January and February.

Summer starts with June. Here where I live it's called Kesäkuu, which literally translates into Summer Month.

Edit: Oh, almost forgot: In the Northern Hemisphere, June contains the summer solstice. In the Southern Hemisphere, it contains the winter solstice. So yeah, there's that too.

Bakkagami

Tbh, 95% of player "balance" feedback is laughable. most of it comes down to "My class needs a buff! I can't kill XX class so it needs a nerf!" so most of it gets ignored ( or 'considered' but rejected) by default, as any sensible company would. Magwarden nerf was a direct result of them listening to the crying from pvp'ers who couldn't figure out how to counter a new class and that put them in the spot they're in now.
Stop complaining so much about XX class not performing as well as another in one aspect while not factoring in the classes other strengths (utility, mobility, support, healing, etc.) The worst thing zos can do is end up homogenizing all the classes to appease a few peoples misguided quest for "balance".

Xvorg

Bakkagami wrote: »

Tbh, 95% of player "balance" feedback is laughable. most of it comes down to "My class needs a buff! I can't kill XX class so it needs a nerf!" so most of it gets ignored ( or 'considered' but rejected) by default, as any sensible company would. Magwarden nerf was a direct result of them listening to the crying from pvp'ers who couldn't figure out how to counter a new class and that put them in the spot they're in now.
Stop complaining so much about XX class not performing as well as another in one aspect while not factoring in the classes other strengths (utility, mobility, support, healing, etc.) The worst thing zos can do is end up homogenizing all the classes to appease a few peoples misguided quest for "balance".

So, because it's "laughable" it has to be ignored?

I think the other way, it must be considered and answered properly, explaining the reasoning behind the decision. Just a couple answeres and then each responsible forum user just need to quote the official answer.

If you don't have a good communication with your clients, they start complaining just like now. So all the "nerf this" or "buff that" threads are at the end ZoS fault.

Users just do what they are supposed to do. That's all.

jwellsub17_ESO2

Hymzir wrote: »

Winter months are December, January and February.

Summer starts with June.

You are kind of right. The first day of winter is indeed in December, but it is December 21 and the first day of Summer is indeed in June, but not until June 21... So while it could be said that December is part of Winter, it is only the last 10 days that are part of Winter. And it remains Winter until March 21. Hence, why I listed the months

MLGProPlayer

Ludof wrote: »

All I saw in these months it's nerf on Magden and Templar.

At the same time you have buffed already good classes.

My questions are:

Do look at provided feedbacks?
Have you ever played this game?

I love how it's just nerf after nerf for the two weakest classes in the game. It's almost as if they derive some sick pleasure from kicking those of us that are already down.

danie1991

since update I cant get into pts somerset instead I am going to my eso game anyone else having this problem

b.bredfeldtub17_ESO

Bakkagami wrote: »

The worst thing zos can do is end up homogenizing all the classes to appease a few peoples misguided quest for "balance".

Implying homogenization is the only way to get good balance. Just because it's the method most devs turn to doesn't mean it's the only method. It's the easiest/laziest and most devs are both bad at it and uninterested, as they're almost all corporate shills who just want to do whatever their bosses tell them to do to keep their job.

I always idolized game programmers as some kind of cool people. If normal programmers were mail delivery drivers or schoolbus drivers, game devs were the racecar drivers. In it for the passion with full latitude to do what they want so long as they won in the end (winning meaning sell enough to justify the dev costs).

Come to realize they're just semi-truck drivers who are still just doing the job to get paid like any normal person who tolerates their work life.

Panomania

Right, wrong or indifferent its just plain bad form to request feedback then do absolutely nothing to even acknowledge anything about that feedback. Communication between ZOS and their player base is EASILY the worst I have seen in any game. You seldom every answer any questions, you ignore valid concerns people have about the game and seem to shut down anyone who dares question this. I fully expect this post will vanish and accusations of "baiting" will appear.

In a perfect world your management are the bad guys, and they take the heat for business decisions. Your devs are gamers at heart and only want whats good for their game. Here, it honestly seems devs dont care. I love this game. I love the TES world. I simply wish ZOS would sell the company off to someone who actually thinks about the game in terms of anything other than maximized profit.

Waffennacht

Panomania wrote: »

Right, wrong or indifferent its just plain bad form to request feedback then do absolutely nothing to even acknowledge anything about that feedback. Communication between ZOS and their player base is EASILY the worst I have seen in any game. You seldom every answer any questions, you ignore valid concerns people have about the game and seem to shut down anyone who dares question this. I fully expect this post will vanish and accusations of "baiting" will appear.

In a perfect world your management are the bad guys, and they take the heat for business decisions. Your devs are gamers at heart and only want whats good for their game. Here, it honestly seems devs dont care. I love this game. I love the TES world. I simply wish ZOS would sell the company off to someone who actually thinks about the game in terms of anything other than maximized profit.

That doesn't exist in today's world.

Maybe when video games were niche, but not now that they are mainstream

Hymzir

jwellsub17_ESO2 wrote: »

Hymzir wrote: »

Winter months are December, January and February.

Summer starts with June.

You are kind of right. The first day of winter is indeed in December, but it is December 21 and the first day of Summer is indeed in June, but not until June 21... So while it could be said that December is part of Winter, it is only the last 10 days that are part of Winter. And it remains Winter until March 21. Hence, why I listed the months

It tells something about the state of the game, and the relevancy of the PTS, that I'd rather spend my time arguing over the appropriate basis for the technical definition for "start of Summer" over here at the forums, than playing the actual game or testing stuff on the PTS.

There, now that this post has been saved from utterly derailing the discussion, and has contributed something meaningful to the topic of PTS relevancy and it's purpose, let's get technical shall we...

The thing is, that I am actually right, not just kind of right, just right. Generally speaking, we have two different basis for defining the "first day of summer", meteorological and astronomical. The latter uses equinoxes and solstices as the demarcation days for the different seasons, where as the prior method uses the first day of the pertinent months. Which is more popular where you live, depends on bunch of factors.

In either case, the start of said season, in our case that of Summer, takes place in the same month - i.e. June. Thus leading to the inevitable conclusion that Summer starts in June, and thus it is declared to be, in both systems, a "summer month." The reason for this is, that the prevailing culture of our times, does not track ending dates, but is much more fixated on the starting points of things as the defining moments.

And thus, in larger scope of things, when people are talking about summer months, or summer as a time period in general, they are talking about June, July and August. And that is the point for having these concepts in the first place. We use them, and their communally agreed upon meanings, to facilitate communication, and that depends on their meanings to be more or less fixed. They can change over time to suit the changing needs of the present, but we can't alter their meaning to suit our individual current needs.

You can, of course, debate your point on the basis for calling a change to this practice. For the division of months into seasons to account where the majority of each months days are located (astronomically speaking that is), but even so... That's just like your opinion, man. And until you manage to convince the majority of the world population otherwise, Summer will still start in June.

And as such, Summerset is the summer release for ZOS, not their late spring release. And what ever is going to come next, will not launch for at least three months after Summerset is released, by which time it will already be fall. And thus the initial premise of your claim, for there still being time for a balance update during summer, is invalid.

But that's me getting technical over a superfluous thing, since I am too bummed out to log on and play ESO today. In fact, I think am gonna go play one of the hidden object games I bought during Steam Winter sale. Sounds much more entertaining way to spend the rest of this evening, than by playing ESO with all it's broken and unbalanced mechanisms.

Panomania

Maybe when video games were niche, but not now that they are mainstream

I have to agree. Thats why I am cautiously anticipating McQuaid's Pantheon.