Cloak is balanced, L2P. This patch I'm using shadow cloak and next patch I'm still using shadow cloak. If you're playing vs a nightblade that solely relies on cloak to survive then im sorry but you're not playing vs a very good stamblade. Next patch we get 33% of max health over 3 seconds, hehe basically like a magicka vigor. People need to start playing stamblades like stamDK's. Woops that was a secret.
#Inbeforenightblademaincomments
Seraphayel wrote: »I find it hilarious that (obviously NB players) some think Stamblade is fine with all their tools (defile, cloak, evasion, roll dodge, executes, guaranteed crit, burst, sustain) in PvP. They're not. They're broken because Cloak and all its surroundings are broken. Cloak needs no change, just increasing cost with each successive cast within 5 seconds so that NBs can't abuse it anymore.
Seraphayel wrote: »I find it hilarious that (obviously NB players) some think Stamblade is fine with all their tools (defile, cloak, evasion, roll dodge, executes, guaranteed crit, burst, sustain) in PvP. They're not. They're broken because Cloak and all its surroundings are broken. Cloak needs no change, just increasing cost with each successive cast within 5 seconds so that NBs can't abuse it anymore.
Serious question @Seraphayel
What steps have you taken to adjust your build to deal with them?
The game offers plenty of counter play to a Nightblade if you're willing to adjust you build or use alternative consumables.
Most of the time when these threads come up the people complaining are upset their build doesn't work vs a Nightblade but are unwilling to actively work on countering one.
Additionally are you doing pre-made or PUG, if you're a pre-made are you watching each others backs or sharing out skills to counter them. Note if you have your own Nightblade you can also get revealing mark in there to mess with enemy Nightblades.
The problem with this approach is: Which other class requires mandatory counterplay measures that are also single purpose and make your build weaker against any target that is not the intended target of the counter?
The answer is none.
The problem is however that NB counterskills (outside of mark which is stupid in itself) are not good enough and as a result make you too vulnerable against other targets to warrant a permanent slot.
The problem is not that NBs are too strong - their intended counters just aren´t used bc they´re useless against everything else and you can´t afford to slot them.
Ragnarock41 wrote: »The problem with this approach is: Which other class requires mandatory counterplay measures that are also single purpose and make your build weaker against any target that is not the intended target of the counter?
The answer is none.
I'm camping here till we see @Turelus come up with a response to this. I'm sure he'll come up with some funny statement and completely avoid giving an actual answer
That said I personally think NBs are generally fine as it. If there's anything I would change is probably add some counter-play against Cloak into existing skills of other classes. So you don't have to slot useless skills like Revealing Flare but have some innate ability to deal with invis to a certain level. Might even need to buff Cloak in that case by giving it some benefit that works even if you get pulled out of Cloak, like Snare Purge for example.
Camo hunter/evil hunter could use a massive buff to the actual use of it too. Something like : ''return %50 of cost when you successfully detect a stealthed enemy with it'', would be a good start, as this ability has insane stamina cost.
Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »The problem with this approach is: Which other class requires mandatory counterplay measures that are also single purpose and make your build weaker against any target that is not the intended target of the counter?
The answer is none.
I'm camping here till we see @Turelus come up with a response to this. I'm sure he'll come up with some funny statement and completely avoid giving an actual answer
That said I personally think NBs are generally fine as it. If there's anything I would change is probably add some counter-play against Cloak into existing skills of other classes. So you don't have to slot useless skills like Revealing Flare but have some innate ability to deal with invis to a certain level. Might even need to buff Cloak in that case by giving it some benefit that works even if you get pulled out of Cloak, like Snare Purge for example.
Camo hunter/evil hunter could use a massive buff to the actual use of it too. Something like : ''return %50 of cost when you successfully detect a stealthed enemy with it'', would be a good start, as this ability has insane stamina cost.
Why should people break their build being forced to use special abilities to counter a single class ?
You don't need to sacrifise your build for countering damage shields, block or dodge. You can choose to specialize into coutering one of those, but you are not forced to use it for having the kill.
NB : what about detect poisons guys ? Have u try it ?
This skill is used more in balance arguments than actual gameplay is my issue.
I find this skill active really garbage. People use it for the major savagery more than the actual cloak counter thing.
thankyourat wrote: »
The same could be said about nightblade as well you can kill a nightblade without detect pots as long as he isn't running away.
Zzz... another of these threads.
Anyone thinking cloak is the issue: try playing a high damage build with limited sustain and say that again after you run out of magicka with just 3 consecutive cloaks.
The only thing making cloak sustain more difficult does is it makes the actual fotm meta 3k+ stam regen 1k mag regen builds stack more mag regen while high damage builds that are already more difficult to play become entirely unplayable.
thankyourat wrote: »I will say though 1v1 there is no way to kill a nightblade who doesn't want to fight i could potentially run away from every 1v1 I didn't think I could win. I think this is where some people consider cloak broken. I don't think running away is broken because you didn't kill anyone. If anything it's just annoying to have a nightblade know they are about to lose and just run away. 1v1
thankyourat wrote: »I will say though 1v1 there is no way to kill a nightblade who doesn't want to fight i could potentially run away from every 1v1 I didn't think I could win. I think this is where some people consider cloak broken. I don't think running away is broken because you didn't kill anyone. If anything it's just annoying to have a nightblade know they are about to lose and just run away. 1v1
Where were you when they nerfed Streak into the ground with the self-root, no momentum, and stacking cost?
Hey, anyone who thinks cloak is fine, can I please have infinite reflects back. Its only projectiles, and a limited number too, whereas cloak is any ST not already on before, dots, and makes you invisible. I would even take an absorb/deflect, so no one can argue about the reflect portion.
Zzz... another of these threads.
Anyone thinking cloak is the issue: try playing a high damage build with limited sustain and say that again after you run out of magicka with just 3 consecutive cloaks.
The only thing making cloak sustain more difficult does is it makes the actual fotm meta 3k+ stam regen 1k mag regen builds stack more mag regen while high damage builds that are already more difficult to play become entirely unplayable.
You definitely hit the nail on the head. The builds people are raging about are the seeming "impossible" builds which cloak way more than the NB forum warriors would have you believe is possible.
Regen-build NBs shouldn't be hitting as hard as they do currently. However the only change I think to be fair would be reducing the Major Defile duration to match the Incap stun at 3 secs instead of 6 secs.
I don't think Cloak needs a nerf in stacking cost/reduced regen/no healing. Detect potions allowing single target abilities to hit would be the first and most important change. Right now, I will use waste a Detect potion and still all my abilities MISS MISS MISS as they only have to cloak to force miss, kite from their Shade and use it to escape.
Some of the other counters could be slightly buffed: range of Evil Hunter increased slightly or cost reduced, pulling NB from stealth with AOE should prevent re-cloaking for 1 sec (enough time for one skill cast), Detect potions with more variety of effects but only provide Detect to person using potion.
Joy_Division wrote: »Nope. I don't think ZoS needs to do anything about Cloak or Stamblades.
What ZOS needs to do is stop nerfing my class so I have decent and capable tools to use against Cloak and Stamblades.
Joy_Division wrote: »Nope. I don't think ZoS needs to do anything about Cloak or Stamblades.
What ZOS needs to do is stop nerfing my class so I have decent and capable tools to use against Cloak and Stamblades.
thankyourat wrote: »
The same could be said about nightblade as well you can kill a nightblade without detect pots as long as he isn't running away.
That´s one of the point heavily critizised by many people (including me) about nbs.
As long as they´re not running away - bc the running away will be a 99% escape if you´re somewhat competent.
Why is this a problem? Because NBs work around strong alphastrikes from sneak and afterwards running away.
Now you can argue that a nb does not have to run away after failing their initial burst - but that´s not the argument. The nb loosing the fight is entirely within the NBs responsibility here - not the victims (unless the victim runs mark and the nb has no shade).
And this is exactly where the critique to bad cloak counters (and mark is a bad cloak counter aswell bc it´s a stupid hardcounter that´s not fun) sets in.
I also definitely agree about AoEs - they should prevent stealthing for 1-2 seconds.
brandonv516 wrote: »