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Sorcerer Summerset Changes Discussion
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Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭@Ragnaroek93
Not asking for nerfs. Just something to actually help sorc get back in place.
And
1. Most sorcs shouldn’t be running 3 wards outside of a duel, nor do you need to. Harness is 7-9k size for 4k mag and can be stripped by Stam without providing return.
2. All Stam can use ults as a part of their kill combo but theirs is cheaper and on the flip side also don’t need an ult to push a kill because they have plenty of other dmg sources that are instant.
3. Shuffle can’t even be an excuse for sorc since only amber dark deal builds copying Faso + eu sorc were able to run it and that was patches ago. It has since been reworked and light armor can’t use it.
4. Pirate skel no longer procs on wards and most sorcs are unable to slot it due to master inferno + lich + 5x leaves 1x monster. And it’s not impossible to work around anyways.
Wow, look at all of the *mostly* targeted Sorc nerfs that nobody ever talks about!
forgot the spell symetry nerf to shields!
There was that, AND another pirate skeleton nerf because @Irylia figured out that you could use equilibrium to proc the set bonus with damage shields up. The spell health cost counted as health damage.
I think they nerfed that one in like.. 1 day flat. It had to be some kind of ‘nerf sorc!’ f***@%# world record.
PS: fix meteor. Buff the damage to replace the missing empower, or this next patch is going to be all Dawnbreaker, ALL of the time. There’s no reason to use any other Magicka ultimate, because nothing we will have access to HITS that hard!
PPS: I also *really* don’t want this patch to be one big sorcerer empowered overload free for all. And it will be if you empower the next two overload light attacks by 40%. Get some common sense ZOS, and act like you have a fourth grade math education! That’s going to hit upwards of 20K per shot after battle spirit with just a couple of the new buffs active. Minor force, empower, bound arms...
I’m pretty sure the removal of meteor empower does jack *** in regular scenarios, where you’d already use a stun right after meteor and therefore consuming the empower. Meteor itself would never actually get empowered unless you castes the skill and then started jumping around for 2 seconds waiting for it to land.
Skaffa even made a video of this where he showed meteor damage when it landed alone and then meteor damage after he did a whip.
Assuming you’re playing against good players, they will start blocking as soon as meteor comes making the following empowered attack useless anyway.
If we are talking about meteor > rune cage and nothing else, then yes, the empower change is a nerf as rune cage didn’t do damage (unless enemy didn’t break, which comes way after meteor lands). But now that rune cage does damage you can look at it this way: the empowered damage from meteor got shifted over to rune cage, which is a much better deal imo.
All in all, the empower loss on meteor is arguably irrelevant.
Yeah we’re talking about caged people
Stunned players with no stamina, happens more than you think, especially 10-12K stamina magsorcs and magdens.
Nightblades near death that cloak spam out of meteor
Nailing those streaking sorcs that end up stuck in midair for that crucial 1-2 seconds because they streaked down an incline or staircase.
Hitting someone in a tight ball group that can’t see the circle and fails to block it (the first target gets the empowered fun, the healer if you’re good)
Hitting a dodge roll spammer you can’t hit with anything else, then following up with a combo when CC’ed
Nailing someone busy on a siege weapon.
Killing some Templar mid channel because they think that their CC immunity will let them do whatever they want.
Killing someone your good buddy mDK already has fossilized and rooted.
The list goes on. I’d say better than half of my meteors actually strike empowered. In a chaotic open world battle there are ALWAYS chances to use it. If you’re smart anyways.
This nerf sucks. I’m not okay with it.3 -
Irylia✭✭✭✭✭
✭PhoenixGrey wrote: »I’m not happy with the changes at all. We asked for damage, and didn’t get it. Meanwhile every other class has had their heals buffed.
We have two class attacks. Two. Curse and frags. Wrath is an execute. Rune cage is a CC. Frags needs the full 20% back on a proc because we can’t empower it. Meteor is going to suck without the self empower.
* Rune cage is nice, but I use the defensive rune morph. It lasts for two minutes, and it’s an instant “F*** you” to bow gankers. It’s necessary given the number of these idiots out there, it FEELS like about half of the PVP population sometimes.
Last night Defensive rune caught a gank spec stam nightblade who jumped me, so I turned a soul assaulted him to death. I got angry tells for ten straight minutes. It was pure joy.
* I’ll probably be slotting ‘Acceleration’ instead of boundless storm for the 12 second burst window with minor force. I don’t think anyone here yet realizes how good that is.
* Bound Aegis change is nice, but it won’t take the place of mage light on my bar. There are just too many damn nightblades out there. You really need it for the reveal, mage light plus streak, light up in the direction where you last saw the nightblade and usually you can catch them.
I’m currently built to ‘L2P’ survive in elder stamblades online, given the cool buffs they just received I don’t see my setup changing. I don’t see the stamblade meta changing.
What I DONT want to do, but might need to just to keep up with the crappy meta Eric just built: slot rune cage, curse, and degeneration on the overload bar. Curse, degeneration cancel rune cage cancel overload light attack. Boom: 3K Rune Cage, 6K Curse, 18K overload. Maybe a quick wrath if they’re still alive by some miracle. It’s crap and everyone out there is going to do it to you too.
Holy rant, batman.
Every change we've seen so far, is a buff. It's the first update for I don't know how long...since before Morrowing for sure, that Sorcs are getting buffs without getting nerfs too. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. I just hope they don't nerf it in PTS
Sorc burst damage is currently very decent. Light attacks scaling from Max Magicka as well, is a huge buff to Sorc pressure. 5-5-2 with staves is amazing, you can slot Slimecraw and buff your damage considerably if you want. Rune Cage getting damage on break is also increasing the burst in the curse-meteor-cage-frag combo.
This is good for Sorcs.
No it isn’t. The changes do nothing for sorcs current issues in Cyro outside of mine cost reduction.
You want to talk about burst go look at nb. They roll/cloak/shuffle the majority of your attacks while your burst is on a timer. Miss one piece of that combo and you need to reset. Meanwhile these nb’s are incapping for half my hp into surprise attack/bow and instant executes killing through ward stacks.
Hundings spriggan bs build and able to out sustain and reliably use cloak and roll
(Zendran)
*** bonkers how much more damage stamina (templar, warden, dk) are able to put out while mitigating a sorcs measly 3 sec burst set up.
Sorc is good with killing bad players but my god it’s so annoying how hard you bash your head into stamina players with very little result.
Shimmering shield
Frost armor (minor protection)
Wings
Sb reflect
Purify
Cloak
Shuffle
Roll dodge
And these Stam toons in medium armor are laughing while they roll through 8k tooltip mines.
Having frag stun was extremely important for sorcs rotation and enabling damage to get through. Flame reach and prison actually lower your pressure.
I find your statements contradictory and exaggerated.
Exaggerated, because medium armour builds find Mines very problematic to fight against. I know, I have 2 PvP stam chars (StamSorc and StamBlade) in medium. No one rolls though mines like they're not there. It more often than not results in your death.
Contradictory, because first you list all the ways that stam toons "break" the Sorc combo mainly by avoiding/reflecting/absorbing/cloaking projectiles. Then you proceed to tell me that Crystal Frag stun (which suffers from all the problems you listed) is extremely important, while an undodgeable/unblockable CC and damage skill somehow makes things worse.
It obviously doesn't. Curse->Meteor->Cage (new version) will basically kill or drop into execute range the vast majority of medium builds out there. As for how you worked out that Flame Reach lowers pressure, that I don't know.
Anyhow, I just fail to see how these changes make Sorcs less capable at dishing burst and dealing with a wider variety of builds than before. I see those as changes in the right direction with the exception perhaps of the Empower changes.
The major major point you are missing in the nerf to frags is bar space. It affects burst damage, survivability and mobility badly !
In a dual wield sorc you cannot slot bound aegis or entropy. In a destro sorc u can't slot mage light. Smaller shields, smaller burst. Reduces your options for pots. Cannot front bar shields.
Some sorc s have even dropped streak!
Not sure how you fail to see this point.
Think I mentioned those alternatives for destro sorc earlier in this thread to ragnoraek. Between the bar space issue and the clunky animation to toss in mid combo for the sole purpose of stunning, it’s pretty bad.
Although you are able to swap shock for clench and keep your bars but what I dislike about this is your spammable is your cc. This ruins burst while fishing for frag procs1 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭PhoenixGrey wrote: »I’m not happy with the changes at all. We asked for damage, and didn’t get it. Meanwhile every other class has had their heals buffed.
We have two class attacks. Two. Curse and frags. Wrath is an execute. Rune cage is a CC. Frags needs the full 20% back on a proc because we can’t empower it. Meteor is going to suck without the self empower.
* Rune cage is nice, but I use the defensive rune morph. It lasts for two minutes, and it’s an instant “F*** you” to bow gankers. It’s necessary given the number of these idiots out there, it FEELS like about half of the PVP population sometimes.
Last night Defensive rune caught a gank spec stam nightblade who jumped me, so I turned a soul assaulted him to death. I got angry tells for ten straight minutes. It was pure joy.
* I’ll probably be slotting ‘Acceleration’ instead of boundless storm for the 12 second burst window with minor force. I don’t think anyone here yet realizes how good that is.
* Bound Aegis change is nice, but it won’t take the place of mage light on my bar. There are just too many damn nightblades out there. You really need it for the reveal, mage light plus streak, light up in the direction where you last saw the nightblade and usually you can catch them.
I’m currently built to ‘L2P’ survive in elder stamblades online, given the cool buffs they just received I don’t see my setup changing. I don’t see the stamblade meta changing.
What I DONT want to do, but might need to just to keep up with the crappy meta Eric just built: slot rune cage, curse, and degeneration on the overload bar. Curse, degeneration cancel rune cage cancel overload light attack. Boom: 3K Rune Cage, 6K Curse, 18K overload. Maybe a quick wrath if they’re still alive by some miracle. It’s crap and everyone out there is going to do it to you too.
Holy rant, batman.
Every change we've seen so far, is a buff. It's the first update for I don't know how long...since before Morrowing for sure, that Sorcs are getting buffs without getting nerfs too. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. I just hope they don't nerf it in PTS
Sorc burst damage is currently very decent. Light attacks scaling from Max Magicka as well, is a huge buff to Sorc pressure. 5-5-2 with staves is amazing, you can slot Slimecraw and buff your damage considerably if you want. Rune Cage getting damage on break is also increasing the burst in the curse-meteor-cage-frag combo.
This is good for Sorcs.
No it isn’t. The changes do nothing for sorcs current issues in Cyro outside of mine cost reduction.
You want to talk about burst go look at nb. They roll/cloak/shuffle the majority of your attacks while your burst is on a timer. Miss one piece of that combo and you need to reset. Meanwhile these nb’s are incapping for half my hp into surprise attack/bow and instant executes killing through ward stacks.
Hundings spriggan bs build and able to out sustain and reliably use cloak and roll
(Zendran)
*** bonkers how much more damage stamina (templar, warden, dk) are able to put out while mitigating a sorcs measly 3 sec burst set up.
Sorc is good with killing bad players but my god it’s so annoying how hard you bash your head into stamina players with very little result.
Shimmering shield
Frost armor (minor protection)
Wings
Sb reflect
Purify
Cloak
Shuffle
Roll dodge
And these Stam toons in medium armor are laughing while they roll through 8k tooltip mines.
Having frag stun was extremely important for sorcs rotation and enabling damage to get through. Flame reach and prison actually lower your pressure.
I find your statements contradictory and exaggerated.
Exaggerated, because medium armour builds find Mines very problematic to fight against. I know, I have 2 PvP stam chars (StamSorc and StamBlade) in medium. No one rolls though mines like they're not there. It more often than not results in your death.
Contradictory, because first you list all the ways that stam toons "break" the Sorc combo mainly by avoiding/reflecting/absorbing/cloaking projectiles. Then you proceed to tell me that Crystal Frag stun (which suffers from all the problems you listed) is extremely important, while an undodgeable/unblockable CC and damage skill somehow makes things worse.
It obviously doesn't. Curse->Meteor->Cage (new version) will basically kill or drop into execute range the vast majority of medium builds out there. As for how you worked out that Flame Reach lowers pressure, that I don't know.
Anyhow, I just fail to see how these changes make Sorcs less capable at dishing burst and dealing with a wider variety of builds than before. I see those as changes in the right direction with the exception perhaps of the Empower changes.
The major major point you are missing in the nerf to frags is bar space. It affects burst damage, survivability and mobility badly !
In a dual wield sorc you cannot slot bound aegis or entropy. In a destro sorc u can't slot mage light. Smaller shields, smaller burst. Reduces your options for pots. Cannot front bar shields.
Some sorc s have even dropped streak!
Not sure how you fail to see this point.
It's not even a point, how am I supposed to (not) miss it? Frag stun removal came with CWC. It's not a recent thing to comment on. The discussions, considerations and adaptations to the frag nerf have already happened.
This is how this discussion is going so far...
Me: These changes are mostly very good!
Other Sorc: But Frag nerf though.
Me: I'm talking about these changes. You know? Not the ones from 5 months ago.
Other Sorc: bUt fRaG nErF!EU | PC | AD3 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭PhoenixGrey wrote: »I’m not happy with the changes at all. We asked for damage, and didn’t get it. Meanwhile every other class has had their heals buffed.
We have two class attacks. Two. Curse and frags. Wrath is an execute. Rune cage is a CC. Frags needs the full 20% back on a proc because we can’t empower it. Meteor is going to suck without the self empower.
* Rune cage is nice, but I use the defensive rune morph. It lasts for two minutes, and it’s an instant “F*** you” to bow gankers. It’s necessary given the number of these idiots out there, it FEELS like about half of the PVP population sometimes.
Last night Defensive rune caught a gank spec stam nightblade who jumped me, so I turned a soul assaulted him to death. I got angry tells for ten straight minutes. It was pure joy.
* I’ll probably be slotting ‘Acceleration’ instead of boundless storm for the 12 second burst window with minor force. I don’t think anyone here yet realizes how good that is.
* Bound Aegis change is nice, but it won’t take the place of mage light on my bar. There are just too many damn nightblades out there. You really need it for the reveal, mage light plus streak, light up in the direction where you last saw the nightblade and usually you can catch them.
I’m currently built to ‘L2P’ survive in elder stamblades online, given the cool buffs they just received I don’t see my setup changing. I don’t see the stamblade meta changing.
What I DONT want to do, but might need to just to keep up with the crappy meta Eric just built: slot rune cage, curse, and degeneration on the overload bar. Curse, degeneration cancel rune cage cancel overload light attack. Boom: 3K Rune Cage, 6K Curse, 18K overload. Maybe a quick wrath if they’re still alive by some miracle. It’s crap and everyone out there is going to do it to you too.
Holy rant, batman.
Every change we've seen so far, is a buff. It's the first update for I don't know how long...since before Morrowing for sure, that Sorcs are getting buffs without getting nerfs too. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. I just hope they don't nerf it in PTS
Sorc burst damage is currently very decent. Light attacks scaling from Max Magicka as well, is a huge buff to Sorc pressure. 5-5-2 with staves is amazing, you can slot Slimecraw and buff your damage considerably if you want. Rune Cage getting damage on break is also increasing the burst in the curse-meteor-cage-frag combo.
This is good for Sorcs.
No it isn’t. The changes do nothing for sorcs current issues in Cyro outside of mine cost reduction.
You want to talk about burst go look at nb. They roll/cloak/shuffle the majority of your attacks while your burst is on a timer. Miss one piece of that combo and you need to reset. Meanwhile these nb’s are incapping for half my hp into surprise attack/bow and instant executes killing through ward stacks.
Hundings spriggan bs build and able to out sustain and reliably use cloak and roll
(Zendran)
*** bonkers how much more damage stamina (templar, warden, dk) are able to put out while mitigating a sorcs measly 3 sec burst set up.
Sorc is good with killing bad players but my god it’s so annoying how hard you bash your head into stamina players with very little result.
Shimmering shield
Frost armor (minor protection)
Wings
Sb reflect
Purify
Cloak
Shuffle
Roll dodge
And these Stam toons in medium armor are laughing while they roll through 8k tooltip mines.
Having frag stun was extremely important for sorcs rotation and enabling damage to get through. Flame reach and prison actually lower your pressure.
I find your statements contradictory and exaggerated.
Exaggerated, because medium armour builds find Mines very problematic to fight against. I know, I have 2 PvP stam chars (StamSorc and StamBlade) in medium. No one rolls though mines like they're not there. It more often than not results in your death.
Contradictory, because first you list all the ways that stam toons "break" the Sorc combo mainly by avoiding/reflecting/absorbing/cloaking projectiles. Then you proceed to tell me that Crystal Frag stun (which suffers from all the problems you listed) is extremely important, while an undodgeable/unblockable CC and damage skill somehow makes things worse.
It obviously doesn't. Curse->Meteor->Cage (new version) will basically kill or drop into execute range the vast majority of medium builds out there. As for how you worked out that Flame Reach lowers pressure, that I don't know.
Anyhow, I just fail to see how these changes make Sorcs less capable at dishing burst and dealing with a wider variety of builds than before. I see those as changes in the right direction with the exception perhaps of the Empower changes.
The major major point you are missing in the nerf to frags is bar space. It affects burst damage, survivability and mobility badly !
In a dual wield sorc you cannot slot bound aegis or entropy. In a destro sorc u can't slot mage light. Smaller shields, smaller burst. Reduces your options for pots. Cannot front bar shields.
Some sorc s have even dropped streak!
Not sure how you fail to see this point.
Think I mentioned those alternatives for destro sorc earlier in this thread to ragnoraek. Between the bar space issue and the clunky animation to toss in mid combo for the sole purpose of stunning, it’s pretty bad.
Although you are able to swap shock for clench and keep your bars but what I dislike about this is your spammable is your cc. This ruins burst while fishing for frag procs
^^Minalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.1 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Ragnaroek93
Not asking for nerfs. Just something to actually help sorc get back in place.
And
1. Most sorcs shouldn’t be running 3 wards outside of a duel, nor do you need to. Harness is 7-9k size for 4k mag and can be stripped by Stam without providing return.
2. All Stam can use ults as a part of their kill combo but theirs is cheaper and on the flip side also don’t need an ult to push a kill because they have plenty of other dmg sources that are instant.
3. Shuffle can’t even be an excuse for sorc since only amber dark deal builds copying Faso + eu sorc were able to run it and that was patches ago. It has since been reworked and light armor can’t use it.
4. Pirate skel no longer procs on wards and most sorcs are unable to slot it due to master inferno + lich + 5x leaves 1x monster. And it’s not impossible to work around anyways.
Wow, look at all of the *mostly* targeted Sorc nerfs that nobody ever talks about!
forgot the spell symetry nerf to shields!
There was that, AND another pirate skeleton nerf because @Irylia figured out that you could use equilibrium to proc the set bonus with damage shields up. The spell health cost counted as health damage.
I think they nerfed that one in like.. 1 day flat. It had to be some kind of ‘nerf sorc!’ f***@%# world record.
PS: fix meteor. Buff the damage to replace the missing empower, or this next patch is going to be all Dawnbreaker, ALL of the time. There’s no reason to use any other Magicka ultimate, because nothing we will have access to HITS that hard!
PPS: I also *really* don’t want this patch to be one big sorcerer empowered overload free for all. And it will be if you empower the next two overload light attacks by 40%. Get some common sense ZOS, and act like you have a fourth grade math education! That’s going to hit upwards of 20K per shot after battle spirit with just a couple of the new buffs active. Minor force, empower, bound arms...
There's a little secret to the spell symmetry nerf that makes it not really a Nerf. But I'll tell you in a message.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
Capt_Morgan✭✭✭
Lich and Riposte are our main backbar sets. You still need 4pc of either set front bar for the regen, so backbar you'd be wasting a set bonus now.
Actually it is now easier to run a backbar setup with a monster helm and master staff though you will only have 3/5/2/1 on frontbar.
For example, you can have 3 Lich jewelry+Resto backbar, Shacklebreaker 5 body, Monster set (Shadowrend, Valkyn, Slimecraw) and Master staff frontbar.
I'm excited for the potential changes to sorc tanking, Persistence could be very good. I think @Joy_Division raised a good point about Bound Armaments and the block mitigation also boosting max magicka instead of stam. I would like to have that available on stam sorc but we'll see once the PTS is up.
I don't think Rune Prison should get a 5 sec stun. I really don't think there should be stuns longer than 3.5-4 secs.
Imbue Weapons looks like way too short a duration, 2 secs and 2 light attacks? Really probably only going to be useful on Overload ganking.
I'm actually thinking of potential stam options using DW/Resto with Mech Acuity to get Major+Minor Force using Resto ultimate and maybe Acceleration as a magicka dump.
Otherwise, I'm hoping to bring back SnB/DW though it will probably be outclassed by the huge number of 5/5/2 2H/Bow builds that will open up. I hate Dizzying Swing and will continue to hope for another spammable option.
I'm actually really excited for imbue weapons. If it is high enough dmg it could possibly replace dizzy swing on a 2H. Would give you an instant cast spammable akin to Nightblade concealed weapon. We will have to see how it plays out but I think alcast mentioned it was doing 10k dmg additional to the light atk in a pve setting, akin to most instant spammables.1 -
PhoenixGrey✭✭✭✭✭
✭Me: These changes are mostly very good!
Other Sorc: But Frag nerf though.
Me: I'm talking about these changes. You know? Not the ones from 5 months ago.
Other Sorc: bUt fRaG nErF!
How are you quantifying good ?
I keep bringing up the frag nerf because those losses have not been compensated in any shape or form since the last 2 patches. Does not look too encouraging this time as well.
I see burst may have improved by a negligible amount due to rune cage changes. But other than that I dont see anything useful yet. I see a nerf to meteor and forsee a nerf to overload for all the wrong reasons.
No improvements to sustain, survivability and mobility from the pvp perspective.Edited by PhoenixGrey on April 12, 2018 1:30AM4 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭PhoenixGrey wrote: »Me: These changes are mostly very good!
Other Sorc: But Frag nerf though.
Me: I'm talking about these changes. You know? Not the ones from 5 months ago.
Other Sorc: bUt fRaG nErF!
How are you quantifying good ?
I keep bringing up the frag nerf because those losses have not been compensated in any shape or form since the last 2 patches. Does not look too encouraging this time as well.
I see burst may have improved by a negligible amount due to rune cage changes. But other than that I dont see anything useful yet. I see a nerf to meteor and forsee a nerf to overload for all the wrong reasons.
No improvements to sustain, survivability and mobility from the pvp perspective.
First off, ZOS haven’t fully compensated the frag nerf because obviously they don’t feel it needs to be fully compensated. I’m not sure why you expect otherwise. If a patch can only be qualified as good for you if frags nerf is reversed or fully compensated then I’d argue your qualification method is severely myopic.
I’m quantifying the changes as good by the universal method of comparing them to the current status and deeming them to be better.
8k tooltip on Rune Cage is not “negligible amount”. Having a full monster set with the potential for 8% more damage from Slimecraw or a 12k Skoria proc, is not negligible amount. Buffing light attacks for max magicka builds is not negligible for Sorc. MagSorcs, MagWardens and Magblades are basically the main beneficiaries of this change.
Empower change is bad in my opinion but for destro builds that is negligible since they weave light attacks anyway. It only affects DW builds and S&B DKs.
Finally I’m not sure why you are complaining about Sorc sustain, survivability and movement. Not that they didn’t get buffs if you read the notes, but these are practically the strong suits of the class right now.
Goddamit some people with their QQ.Edited by Maulkin on April 12, 2018 7:46AMEU | PC | AD1 -
Svidrir✭✭✭There is a very important problem with bound amor for a stamina sorcerer, is the only intelligent way to take advantage of the 20% regen stam bonus of the passive daedric but in "summer set " you lose it, on 1 bar
You have to add a morph stamina, to the curse then. (the Atronach is useless on pvp exept in rare situation on bg and always will be with even more HP )
Already we will lose the 8% of stamian max if we also lose the 20% regen stamina more .....................................
Ps (sry is a google trad)Edited by Svidrir on April 12, 2018 9:27AMUlaan Baator sorcier bdsm2 -
Thraben✭✭✭✭✭There is a very important problem with bound amor for a stamina sorcerer, is the only intelligent way to take advantage of the 20% regen stam bonus of the passive daedric but in "summer set " you lose it, on 1 bar
You have to add a morph stamina, to the curse then. (the Atronach is useless on pvp exept in rare situation on bg)
Already we will lose the 8% of stamian max if we also lose the 20% regen stamina more .....................................
Ps (sry is a google trad)
As long as there are 3 million stamblades around, the Curse is not the worst thing to equip. You don´t "lose" bound armor on one bar, you win a free slot on your off-bar.Hauptmann der Dolche des Königs
DDK ist die letzte Verteidigungslinie des Dolchsturz- Bündnisses auf der 30-Tage-No-CP- Kampagne(EU) mit dem Anspruch, in kleinen, anfängerfreundlichen Raid-Gruppen möglichst epische Schlachten auszufechten.
DDK is the Daggerfall Covenant´s last line of defense on the 30 days no-cp campaign (EU). We intend to fight epic battles in small, casual player friendly raid groups.0 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »I think I'm going to drop the Master's Destro and go for another 5 piece / Monster set because of the damage is guaranteed from Rune Cage. I still hate Crystal Frags change.
I'm a little fuzzy on the Bound Armaments change. The meta for tanks is Health, Bound Armaments is the "tank" morph and it's increasing magicka by 8% while giving a bonus to something normally associated with stamina (block). One of the invitees (think it was Alcast) said even the devs recognize Forest staff "magicka" tanking isn't where they want to be so this actual skill usage is a waste for DPS (they shield not block) and it's only going to be slotted for the passive. Awkward.
Lightning Flood absolutely needed some love. 6 seconds is *really* hard to maintain so I suspect Liquid Lightning will still get the higher parses.
I don't mind these changes.
Bound armaments isn’t the tank morph, it’s also the stam dps morph and the PvP stam morph. There are so many ways bound armaments could have been changed to increase the viability of stam sorcs in pvp and PvE and they went with the change that makes it a tank skill despite both PvE and PvP dds relying on it. I really can’t beleive ZOS is going to screw stam sorcs on one of our very few useful class skills.Edited by Vapirko on April 12, 2018 10:31AM2 -
Svidrir✭✭✭There is a very important problem with bound amor for a stamina sorcerer, is the only intelligent way to take advantage of the 20% regen stam bonus of the passive daedric but in "summer set " you lose it, on 1 bar
You have to add a morph stamina, to the curse then. (the Atronach is useless on pvp exept in rare situation on bg)
Already we will lose the 8% of stamian max if we also lose the 20% regen stamina more .....................................
Ps (sry is a google trad)
As long as there are 3 million stamblades around, the Curse is not the worst thing to equip. You don´t "lose" bound armor on one bar, you win a free slot on your off-bar.
I would be more than happy if it were possible, finally interesting for a stamina to fit the curse (and yes the idea to annoy the cloud of NB of the game I like too)
But in the state the curse is useless in stam the damage would be ridiculous.
I do not even talk about dadric invocations, I do not like and anyway are useless in pvp.
Like the warden it would take more morph stamina or magika spells useful to a stamina.
I have long dreamed of being able to use more lightning spell too ...(Pelinal is fun but not effective)Edited by Svidrir on April 12, 2018 10:45AMUlaan Baator sorcier bdsm0 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I wonder how stam sorc do as they seem not to be well represented on the forum
They seem to be getting good buffs as far as I'm concerned. @Vapirko came in here to vent that no one talks about them, but as soon as I offered my opinion and asked him to expand on his... he do me a disappear.
Sorry if I don’t see every little notification on the forum. So what buff exactly are we getting? Bound armaments is being made close to useless for dds it seems. Some 2 second block bs? I’m not really a PvEr so I’m coming from a PvP perspective for the most part and this change does not seem good. I’ve suggested that a good change to bound armaments if it’s not going to be a toggle thereby only buffing regen on one bar due to the passives, that it function soemthing like the warden netch and return stam while sprinting since stam sorcs really only have mobility going for them. And the obvious other thing we lack is a class spammable of any kind which stam Templars, wardens and NBs all have. There have been some threads noting that it wouldn’t take much to bring stam sorcs back up to speed and honestly I don’t even think we need much help in the damage department, if we need any at all, and keeping bound armaments useful to dds and opening up that one extra skill slot goes a long way. But if bound armaments goes down the tube, we’re back where we started or worse off than before.2 -
Beardimus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭PhoenixGrey wrote: »Me: These changes are mostly very good!
Other Sorc: But Frag nerf though.
Me: I'm talking about these changes. You know? Not the ones from 5 months ago.
Other Sorc: bUt fRaG nErF!
How are you quantifying good ?
I keep bringing up the frag nerf because those losses have not been compensated in any shape or form since the last 2 patches. Does not look too encouraging this time as well.
I see burst may have improved by a negligible amount due to rune cage changes. But other than that I dont see anything useful yet. I see a nerf to meteor and forsee a nerf to overload for all the wrong reasons.
No improvements to sustain, survivability and mobility from the pvp perspective.
First off, ZOS haven’t fully compensated the frag nerf because obviously they don’t feel it needs to be fully compensated. I’m not sure why you expect otherwise. If a patch can only be qualified as good for you if frags nerf is reversed or fully compensated then I’d argue your qualification method is severely myopic.
I’m quantifying the changes as good by the universal method of comparing them to the current status and deeming them to be better.
8k tooltip on Rune Cage is not “negligible amount”. Having a full monster set with the potential for 8% more damage from Slimecraw or a 12k Skoria proc, is not negligible amount. Buffing light attacks for max magicka builds is not negligible for Sorc. MagSorcs, MagWardens and Magblades are basically the main beneficiaries of this change.
Empower change is bad in my opinion but for destro builds that is negligible since they weave light attacks anyway. It only affects DW builds and S&B DKs.
Finally I’m not sure why you are complaining about Sorc sustain, survivability and movement. Not that they didn’t get buffs if you read the notes, but these are practically the strong suits of the class right now.
Goddamit some people with their QQ.
to be fair I think the person QQing the most here is yourself sir! You are QQing about the QQing, the later of which the majority are agreeing with.
Will the sky fall? No - unless you are DW MagSorc. Has the sky fallen on the class already - yep. Hence the Frag etc gets brought up.Xbox One | EU | EP
Beardimus : VR16 Dunmer MagSorc [RIP MagDW 2015-2018]
Emperor of Sotha Sil 02-2018 & Sheogorath 05-2019
1st Emperor of RavenwatchAlts - - for the Lolz
Archimus : Bosmer Thief / Archer / Werewolf
Orcimus : Fat drunk Orc battlefield 1st aider
Scalimus - Argonian Sorc Healer / Pet master
Fighting small scale with : The SAXON Guild
Fighting with [PvP] : The Undaunted Wolves
Trading Guilds : TradersOfNirn | FourSquareTraders
Xbox One | NA | EP
Bëardimus : L43 Dunmer Magsorc / BG
Heals-With-Pets : VR16 Argonian Sorc PvP / BG Healer
Nordimus : VR16 Stamsorc
Beardimus le 13iem : L30 Dunmer Magsorc Icereach2 -
Svidrir✭✭✭+1 Spamable .
And yes it would be logical that bound armor behaves like nech Warden, the spell is in the way Daedric invocation no
Moreover if all the invocations of the wizard worked as on the guardians would be a big step forward.Ulaan Baator sorcier bdsm0 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭PhoenixGrey wrote: »Me: These changes are mostly very good!
Other Sorc: But Frag nerf though.
Me: I'm talking about these changes. You know? Not the ones from 5 months ago.
Other Sorc: bUt fRaG nErF!
How are you quantifying good ?
I keep bringing up the frag nerf because those losses have not been compensated in any shape or form since the last 2 patches. Does not look too encouraging this time as well.
I see burst may have improved by a negligible amount due to rune cage changes. But other than that I dont see anything useful yet. I see a nerf to meteor and forsee a nerf to overload for all the wrong reasons.
No improvements to sustain, survivability and mobility from the pvp perspective.
First off, ZOS haven’t fully compensated the frag nerf because obviously they don’t feel it needs to be fully compensated. I’m not sure why you expect otherwise. If a patch can only be qualified as good for you if frags nerf is reversed or fully compensated then I’d argue your qualification method is severely myopic.
I’m quantifying the changes as good by the universal method of comparing them to the current status and deeming them to be better.
8k tooltip on Rune Cage is not “negligible amount”. Having a full monster set with the potential for 8% more damage from Slimecraw or a 12k Skoria proc, is not negligible amount. Buffing light attacks for max magicka builds is not negligible for Sorc. MagSorcs, MagWardens and Magblades are basically the main beneficiaries of this change.
Empower change is bad in my opinion but for destro builds that is negligible since they weave light attacks anyway. It only affects DW builds and S&B DKs.
Finally I’m not sure why you are complaining about Sorc sustain, survivability and movement. Not that they didn’t get buffs if you read the notes, but these are practically the strong suits of the class right now.
Goddamit some people with their QQ.
to be fair I think the person QQing the most here is yourself sir! You are QQing about the QQing, the later of which the majority are agreeing with.
Will the sky fall? No - unless you are DW MagSorc. Has the sky fallen on the class already - yep. Hence the Frag etc gets brought up.
No, UEU | PC | AD1 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I wonder how stam sorc do as they seem not to be well represented on the forum
They seem to be getting good buffs as far as I'm concerned. @Vapirko came in here to vent that no one talks about them, but as soon as I offered my opinion and asked him to expand on his... he do me a disappear.
Sorry if I don’t see every little notification on the forum. So what buff exactly are we getting? Bound armaments is being made close to useless for dds it seems. Some 2 second block bs? I’m not really a PvEr so I’m coming from a PvP perspective for the most part and this change does not seem good. I’ve suggested that a good change to bound armaments if it’s not going to be a toggle thereby only buffing regen on one bar due to the passives, that it function soemthing like the warden netch and return stam while sprinting since stam sorcs really only have mobility going for them. And the obvious other thing we lack is a class spammable of any kind which stam Templars, wardens and NBs all have. There have been some threads noting that it wouldn’t take much to bring stam sorcs back up to speed and honestly I don’t even think we need much help in the damage department, if we need any at all, and keeping bound armaments useful to dds and opening up that one extra skill slot goes a long way. But if bound armaments goes down the tube, we’re back where we started or worse off than before.
How is Bound Armaments becoming useless to DDs? Enlighten me.
Edited by Maulkin on April 12, 2018 11:33AMEU | PC | AD0 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I wonder how stam sorc do as they seem not to be well represented on the forum
They seem to be getting good buffs as far as I'm concerned. @Vapirko came in here to vent that no one talks about them, but as soon as I offered my opinion and asked him to expand on his... he do me a disappear.
Sorry if I don’t see every little notification on the forum. So what buff exactly are we getting? Bound armaments is being made close to useless for dds it seems. Some 2 second block bs? I’m not really a PvEr so I’m coming from a PvP perspective for the most part and this change does not seem good. I’ve suggested that a good change to bound armaments if it’s not going to be a toggle thereby only buffing regen on one bar due to the passives, that it function soemthing like the warden netch and return stam while sprinting since stam sorcs really only have mobility going for them. And the obvious other thing we lack is a class spammable of any kind which stam Templars, wardens and NBs all have. There have been some threads noting that it wouldn’t take much to bring stam sorcs back up to speed and honestly I don’t even think we need much help in the damage department, if we need any at all, and keeping bound armaments useful to dds and opening up that one extra skill slot goes a long way. But if bound armaments goes down the tube, we’re back where we started or worse off than before.
How is Bound Armaments becoming useless to DDs? Enlighten me.
It’s just being transformed into a skill that’s supppsed to double as a tank skill and a dd skill instead of being reimagined into something that will truly benefit Stam Sorc dds. I assume it’s part of ZOS trying to give every class the ability to do everything, something I don’t agree with. It might be fine in PvE where things are more controlled but for PvP the 2 second block buff is just too short a time and we don’t really need defensive help we need utility help. It ultimately remains to be seen when the full patch notes come out, but people have been putting forth good suggestions for stam sorcs for a while and this isn’t one of them.1 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I wonder how stam sorc do as they seem not to be well represented on the forum
They seem to be getting good buffs as far as I'm concerned. @Vapirko came in here to vent that no one talks about them, but as soon as I offered my opinion and asked him to expand on his... he do me a disappear.
Sorry if I don’t see every little notification on the forum. So what buff exactly are we getting? Bound armaments is being made close to useless for dds it seems. Some 2 second block bs? I’m not really a PvEr so I’m coming from a PvP perspective for the most part and this change does not seem good. I’ve suggested that a good change to bound armaments if it’s not going to be a toggle thereby only buffing regen on one bar due to the passives, that it function soemthing like the warden netch and return stam while sprinting since stam sorcs really only have mobility going for them. And the obvious other thing we lack is a class spammable of any kind which stam Templars, wardens and NBs all have. There have been some threads noting that it wouldn’t take much to bring stam sorcs back up to speed and honestly I don’t even think we need much help in the damage department, if we need any at all, and keeping bound armaments useful to dds and opening up that one extra skill slot goes a long way. But if bound armaments goes down the tube, we’re back where we started or worse off than before.
How is Bound Armaments becoming useless to DDs? Enlighten me.
It’s just being transformed into a skill that’s supppsed to double as a tank skill and a dd skill instead of being reimagined into something that will truly benefit Stam Sorc dds. I assume it’s part of ZOS trying to give every class the ability to do everything, something I don’t agree with. It might be fine in PvE where things are more controlled but for PvP the 2 second block buff is just too short a time and we don’t really need defensive help we need utility help. It ultimately remains to be seen when the full patch notes come out, but people have been putting forth good suggestions for stam sorcs for a while and this isn’t one of them.
No it's not. Bound Armaments is the damage morph. Bound Aegis is the tank morph.
Again, how is Bound Armaments becoming useless to DDs?EU | PC | AD1 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I wonder how stam sorc do as they seem not to be well represented on the forum
They seem to be getting good buffs as far as I'm concerned. @Vapirko came in here to vent that no one talks about them, but as soon as I offered my opinion and asked him to expand on his... he do me a disappear.
Sorry if I don’t see every little notification on the forum. So what buff exactly are we getting? Bound armaments is being made close to useless for dds it seems. Some 2 second block bs? I’m not really a PvEr so I’m coming from a PvP perspective for the most part and this change does not seem good. I’ve suggested that a good change to bound armaments if it’s not going to be a toggle thereby only buffing regen on one bar due to the passives, that it function soemthing like the warden netch and return stam while sprinting since stam sorcs really only have mobility going for them. And the obvious other thing we lack is a class spammable of any kind which stam Templars, wardens and NBs all have. There have been some threads noting that it wouldn’t take much to bring stam sorcs back up to speed and honestly I don’t even think we need much help in the damage department, if we need any at all, and keeping bound armaments useful to dds and opening up that one extra skill slot goes a long way. But if bound armaments goes down the tube, we’re back where we started or worse off than before.
How is Bound Armaments becoming useless to DDs? Enlighten me.
It’s just being transformed into a skill that’s supppsed to double as a tank skill and a dd skill instead of being reimagined into something that will truly benefit Stam Sorc dds. I assume it’s part of ZOS trying to give every class the ability to do everything, something I don’t agree with. It might be fine in PvE where things are more controlled but for PvP the 2 second block buff is just too short a time and we don’t really need defensive help we need utility help. It ultimately remains to be seen when the full patch notes come out, but people have been putting forth good suggestions for stam sorcs for a while and this isn’t one of them.
No it's not. Bound Armaments is the damage morph. Bound Aegis is the tank morph.
Again, how is Bound Armaments becoming useless to DDs?
It’s being changed to feature a short Increase in block mitigation no?0 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I wonder how stam sorc do as they seem not to be well represented on the forum
They seem to be getting good buffs as far as I'm concerned. @Vapirko came in here to vent that no one talks about them, but as soon as I offered my opinion and asked him to expand on his... he do me a disappear.
Sorry if I don’t see every little notification on the forum. So what buff exactly are we getting? Bound armaments is being made close to useless for dds it seems. Some 2 second block bs? I’m not really a PvEr so I’m coming from a PvP perspective for the most part and this change does not seem good. I’ve suggested that a good change to bound armaments if it’s not going to be a toggle thereby only buffing regen on one bar due to the passives, that it function soemthing like the warden netch and return stam while sprinting since stam sorcs really only have mobility going for them. And the obvious other thing we lack is a class spammable of any kind which stam Templars, wardens and NBs all have. There have been some threads noting that it wouldn’t take much to bring stam sorcs back up to speed and honestly I don’t even think we need much help in the damage department, if we need any at all, and keeping bound armaments useful to dds and opening up that one extra skill slot goes a long way. But if bound armaments goes down the tube, we’re back where we started or worse off than before.
How is Bound Armaments becoming useless to DDs? Enlighten me.
It’s just being transformed into a skill that’s supppsed to double as a tank skill and a dd skill instead of being reimagined into something that will truly benefit Stam Sorc dds. I assume it’s part of ZOS trying to give every class the ability to do everything, something I don’t agree with. It might be fine in PvE where things are more controlled but for PvP the 2 second block buff is just too short a time and we don’t really need defensive help we need utility help. It ultimately remains to be seen when the full patch notes come out, but people have been putting forth good suggestions for stam sorcs for a while and this isn’t one of them.
No it's not. Bound Armaments is the damage morph. Bound Aegis is the tank morph.
Again, how is Bound Armaments becoming useless to DDs?
It’s being changed to feature a short Increase in block mitigation no?
No, that's Bound Aegis the defensive morph.
EU | PC | AD0 -
Apherius✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I wonder how stam sorc do as they seem not to be well represented on the forum
They seem to be getting good buffs as far as I'm concerned. @Vapirko came in here to vent that no one talks about them, but as soon as I offered my opinion and asked him to expand on his... he do me a disappear.
Sorry if I don’t see every little notification on the forum. So what buff exactly are we getting? Bound armaments is being made close to useless for dds it seems. Some 2 second block bs? I’m not really a PvEr so I’m coming from a PvP perspective for the most part and this change does not seem good. I’ve suggested that a good change to bound armaments if it’s not going to be a toggle thereby only buffing regen on one bar due to the passives, that it function soemthing like the warden netch and return stam while sprinting since stam sorcs really only have mobility going for them. And the obvious other thing we lack is a class spammable of any kind which stam Templars, wardens and NBs all have. There have been some threads noting that it wouldn’t take much to bring stam sorcs back up to speed and honestly I don’t even think we need much help in the damage department, if we need any at all, and keeping bound armaments useful to dds and opening up that one extra skill slot goes a long way. But if bound armaments goes down the tube, we’re back where we started or worse off than before.
How is Bound Armaments becoming useless to DDs? Enlighten me.
It’s just being transformed into a skill that’s supppsed to double as a tank skill and a dd skill instead of being reimagined into something that will truly benefit Stam Sorc dds. I assume it’s part of ZOS trying to give every class the ability to do everything, something I don’t agree with. It might be fine in PvE where things are more controlled but for PvP the 2 second block buff is just too short a time and we don’t really need defensive help we need utility help. It ultimately remains to be seen when the full patch notes come out, but people have been putting forth good suggestions for stam sorcs for a while and this isn’t one of them.
No it's not. Bound Armaments is the damage morph. Bound Aegis is the tank morph.
Again, how is Bound Armaments becoming useless to DDs?
It’s being changed to feature a short Increase in block mitigation no?
yes, but they won't remove the 8% magicka increase. ( I'm talking about Bound aegis)Edited by Apherius on April 12, 2018 11:49AM1 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I wonder how stam sorc do as they seem not to be well represented on the forum
They seem to be getting good buffs as far as I'm concerned. @Vapirko came in here to vent that no one talks about them, but as soon as I offered my opinion and asked him to expand on his... he do me a disappear.
Sorry if I don’t see every little notification on the forum. So what buff exactly are we getting? Bound armaments is being made close to useless for dds it seems. Some 2 second block bs? I’m not really a PvEr so I’m coming from a PvP perspective for the most part and this change does not seem good. I’ve suggested that a good change to bound armaments if it’s not going to be a toggle thereby only buffing regen on one bar due to the passives, that it function soemthing like the warden netch and return stam while sprinting since stam sorcs really only have mobility going for them. And the obvious other thing we lack is a class spammable of any kind which stam Templars, wardens and NBs all have. There have been some threads noting that it wouldn’t take much to bring stam sorcs back up to speed and honestly I don’t even think we need much help in the damage department, if we need any at all, and keeping bound armaments useful to dds and opening up that one extra skill slot goes a long way. But if bound armaments goes down the tube, we’re back where we started or worse off than before.
How is Bound Armaments becoming useless to DDs? Enlighten me.
It’s just being transformed into a skill that’s supppsed to double as a tank skill and a dd skill instead of being reimagined into something that will truly benefit Stam Sorc dds. I assume it’s part of ZOS trying to give every class the ability to do everything, something I don’t agree with. It might be fine in PvE where things are more controlled but for PvP the 2 second block buff is just too short a time and we don’t really need defensive help we need utility help. It ultimately remains to be seen when the full patch notes come out, but people have been putting forth good suggestions for stam sorcs for a while and this isn’t one of them.
No it's not. Bound Armaments is the damage morph. Bound Aegis is the tank morph.
Again, how is Bound Armaments becoming useless to DDs?
It’s being changed to feature a short Increase in block mitigation no?
yes, but they won't remove the 8% magicka increase. ( I'm talking about Bound aegis)
I like how my notifications become French when you type
EU | PC | AD2 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I wonder how stam sorc do as they seem not to be well represented on the forum
They seem to be getting good buffs as far as I'm concerned. @Vapirko came in here to vent that no one talks about them, but as soon as I offered my opinion and asked him to expand on his... he do me a disappear.
Sorry if I don’t see every little notification on the forum. So what buff exactly are we getting? Bound armaments is being made close to useless for dds it seems. Some 2 second block bs? I’m not really a PvEr so I’m coming from a PvP perspective for the most part and this change does not seem good. I’ve suggested that a good change to bound armaments if it’s not going to be a toggle thereby only buffing regen on one bar due to the passives, that it function soemthing like the warden netch and return stam while sprinting since stam sorcs really only have mobility going for them. And the obvious other thing we lack is a class spammable of any kind which stam Templars, wardens and NBs all have. There have been some threads noting that it wouldn’t take much to bring stam sorcs back up to speed and honestly I don’t even think we need much help in the damage department, if we need any at all, and keeping bound armaments useful to dds and opening up that one extra skill slot goes a long way. But if bound armaments goes down the tube, we’re back where we started or worse off than before.
How is Bound Armaments becoming useless to DDs? Enlighten me.
It’s just being transformed into a skill that’s supppsed to double as a tank skill and a dd skill instead of being reimagined into something that will truly benefit Stam Sorc dds. I assume it’s part of ZOS trying to give every class the ability to do everything, something I don’t agree with. It might be fine in PvE where things are more controlled but for PvP the 2 second block buff is just too short a time and we don’t really need defensive help we need utility help. It ultimately remains to be seen when the full patch notes come out, but people have been putting forth good suggestions for stam sorcs for a while and this isn’t one of them.
No it's not. Bound Armaments is the damage morph. Bound Aegis is the tank morph.
Again, how is Bound Armaments becoming useless to DDs?
It’s being changed to feature a short Increase in block mitigation no?
No, that's Bound Aegis the defensive morph.
My mistake, someone up above switched the name and the description and I was going off that. However I still wouldn’t call it a buff as you propose, not yet anyway. Though it’s a step in the right direction and opens up possibility of making Stam Sorc a very competitive class.2 -
Apherius✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I wonder how stam sorc do as they seem not to be well represented on the forum
They seem to be getting good buffs as far as I'm concerned. @Vapirko came in here to vent that no one talks about them, but as soon as I offered my opinion and asked him to expand on his... he do me a disappear.
Sorry if I don’t see every little notification on the forum. So what buff exactly are we getting? Bound armaments is being made close to useless for dds it seems. Some 2 second block bs? I’m not really a PvEr so I’m coming from a PvP perspective for the most part and this change does not seem good. I’ve suggested that a good change to bound armaments if it’s not going to be a toggle thereby only buffing regen on one bar due to the passives, that it function soemthing like the warden netch and return stam while sprinting since stam sorcs really only have mobility going for them. And the obvious other thing we lack is a class spammable of any kind which stam Templars, wardens and NBs all have. There have been some threads noting that it wouldn’t take much to bring stam sorcs back up to speed and honestly I don’t even think we need much help in the damage department, if we need any at all, and keeping bound armaments useful to dds and opening up that one extra skill slot goes a long way. But if bound armaments goes down the tube, we’re back where we started or worse off than before.
How is Bound Armaments becoming useless to DDs? Enlighten me.
It’s just being transformed into a skill that’s supppsed to double as a tank skill and a dd skill instead of being reimagined into something that will truly benefit Stam Sorc dds. I assume it’s part of ZOS trying to give every class the ability to do everything, something I don’t agree with. It might be fine in PvE where things are more controlled but for PvP the 2 second block buff is just too short a time and we don’t really need defensive help we need utility help. It ultimately remains to be seen when the full patch notes come out, but people have been putting forth good suggestions for stam sorcs for a while and this isn’t one of them.
No it's not. Bound Armaments is the damage morph. Bound Aegis is the tank morph.
Again, how is Bound Armaments becoming useless to DDs?
It’s being changed to feature a short Increase in block mitigation no?
yes, but they won't remove the 8% magicka increase. ( I'm talking about Bound aegis)
I like how my notifications become French when you type
Ahah, same thing on my side, Mine becomes english :P0 -
Subversus✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Ragnaroek93
Not asking for nerfs. Just something to actually help sorc get back in place.
And
1. Most sorcs shouldn’t be running 3 wards outside of a duel, nor do you need to. Harness is 7-9k size for 4k mag and can be stripped by Stam without providing return.
2. All Stam can use ults as a part of their kill combo but theirs is cheaper and on the flip side also don’t need an ult to push a kill because they have plenty of other dmg sources that are instant.
3. Shuffle can’t even be an excuse for sorc since only amber dark deal builds copying Faso + eu sorc were able to run it and that was patches ago. It has since been reworked and light armor can’t use it.
4. Pirate skel no longer procs on wards and most sorcs are unable to slot it due to master inferno + lich + 5x leaves 1x monster. And it’s not impossible to work around anyways.
Wow, look at all of the *mostly* targeted Sorc nerfs that nobody ever talks about!
forgot the spell symetry nerf to shields!
There was that, AND another pirate skeleton nerf because @Irylia figured out that you could use equilibrium to proc the set bonus with damage shields up. The spell health cost counted as health damage.
I think they nerfed that one in like.. 1 day flat. It had to be some kind of ‘nerf sorc!’ f***@%# world record.
PS: fix meteor. Buff the damage to replace the missing empower, or this next patch is going to be all Dawnbreaker, ALL of the time. There’s no reason to use any other Magicka ultimate, because nothing we will have access to HITS that hard!
PPS: I also *really* don’t want this patch to be one big sorcerer empowered overload free for all. And it will be if you empower the next two overload light attacks by 40%. Get some common sense ZOS, and act like you have a fourth grade math education! That’s going to hit upwards of 20K per shot after battle spirit with just a couple of the new buffs active. Minor force, empower, bound arms...
I’m pretty sure the removal of meteor empower does jack *** in regular scenarios, where you’d already use a stun right after meteor and therefore consuming the empower. Meteor itself would never actually get empowered unless you castes the skill and then started jumping around for 2 seconds waiting for it to land.
Skaffa even made a video of this where he showed meteor damage when it landed alone and then meteor damage after he did a whip.
Assuming you’re playing against good players, they will start blocking as soon as meteor comes making the following empowered attack useless anyway.
If we are talking about meteor > rune cage and nothing else, then yes, the empower change is a nerf as rune cage didn’t do damage (unless enemy didn’t break, which comes way after meteor lands). But now that rune cage does damage you can look at it this way: the empowered damage from meteor got shifted over to rune cage, which is a much better deal imo.
All in all, the empower loss on meteor is arguably irrelevant.
Yeah we’re talking about caged people
Stunned players with no stamina, happens more than you think, especially 10-12K stamina magsorcs and magdens.
if they’re stunned and no stam I don’t see any reason not to follow up with other attacks instead of waiting for the meteor to fall
Nightblades near death that cloak spam out of meteor
fair point, although it doesn’t matter if the meteor is empowered or not if they’re near death...
Nailing those streaking sorcs that end up stuck in midair for that crucial 1-2 seconds because they streaked down an incline or staircase.
Sure, never had that happen to me but it’s a good theoretical example
Hitting someone in a tight ball group that can’t see the circle and fails to block it (the first target gets the empowered fun, the healer if you’re good)
again, I don’t see why you’d drop a meteor in this situation and then just stop attacking at all in order to preserve 20% extra damage on it
Hitting a dodge roll spammer you can’t hit with anything else, then following up with a combo when CC’ed
fair point, I agree with this one
Nailing someone busy on a siege weapon.
again, why would you only cast a meteor and then stop attacking?
Killing some Templar mid channel because they think that their CC immunity will let them do whatever they want.
same thing again, why would you suddenly stop attacking? Just shieldstack through soul assault (assuming that’s what you meant by mid channel), and then go ham on him
Killing someone your good buddy mDK already has fossilized and rooted.
again, it’s a 2v1 and my magdk buddy is already smacking the living hell out of the other dude. Why would I simply cast my meteor then... uhh... start dancing around the enemy?
The list goes on. I’d say better than half of my meteors actually strike empowered. In a chaotic open world battle there are ALWAYS chances to use it. If you’re smart anyways.
This nerf sucks. I’m not okay with it.
I mean yeah sure, I agree. This is indisputably a nerf for DW, as well as against rollerblades as you pointed out in your list.
Any other scenario, I don’t see myself just casting a meteor and then starting a staring contest with the target as the meteor falls. This includes both my magblade and my sorc... it would be foolish to waste an ultimate like that.
The only scenario (besides the one where a rollerblade dodges everything but the meteor) where I wouldn’t spam other abilities during a meteor combo would be if I were to cast meteor on a random pleb on top of a castle that runs behind LOS as soon as I cast it on him. For that scenario it is indeed a huge nerf
Look I’m not arguing this isn’t a nerf - it is, for DW that can’t take advantage of the new light attack empower. For destro specs though, I really believe it remains to be seen whether 20% on an ability after meteor is better than 40% on the already newly buffed light attacks. I mean next patch they will hit haaard, even more so with empower.0 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I wonder how stam sorc do as they seem not to be well represented on the forum
They seem to be getting good buffs as far as I'm concerned. @Vapirko came in here to vent that no one talks about them, but as soon as I offered my opinion and asked him to expand on his... he do me a disappear.
Sorry if I don’t see every little notification on the forum. So what buff exactly are we getting? Bound armaments is being made close to useless for dds it seems. Some 2 second block bs? I’m not really a PvEr so I’m coming from a PvP perspective for the most part and this change does not seem good. I’ve suggested that a good change to bound armaments if it’s not going to be a toggle thereby only buffing regen on one bar due to the passives, that it function soemthing like the warden netch and return stam while sprinting since stam sorcs really only have mobility going for them. And the obvious other thing we lack is a class spammable of any kind which stam Templars, wardens and NBs all have. There have been some threads noting that it wouldn’t take much to bring stam sorcs back up to speed and honestly I don’t even think we need much help in the damage department, if we need any at all, and keeping bound armaments useful to dds and opening up that one extra skill slot goes a long way. But if bound armaments goes down the tube, we’re back where we started or worse off than before.
How is Bound Armaments becoming useless to DDs? Enlighten me.
It’s just being transformed into a skill that’s supppsed to double as a tank skill and a dd skill instead of being reimagined into something that will truly benefit Stam Sorc dds. I assume it’s part of ZOS trying to give every class the ability to do everything, something I don’t agree with. It might be fine in PvE where things are more controlled but for PvP the 2 second block buff is just too short a time and we don’t really need defensive help we need utility help. It ultimately remains to be seen when the full patch notes come out, but people have been putting forth good suggestions for stam sorcs for a while and this isn’t one of them.
No it's not. Bound Armaments is the damage morph. Bound Aegis is the tank morph.
Again, how is Bound Armaments becoming useless to DDs?
It’s being changed to feature a short Increase in block mitigation no?
No, that's Bound Aegis the defensive morph.
My mistake, someone up above switched the name and the description and I was going off that. However I still wouldn’t call it a buff as you propose, not yet anyway. Though it’s a step in the right direction and opens up possibility of making Stam Sorc a very competitive class.
For PvP stamsorcs, it's 100% a buff. In PvP you don't heavy attack anywhere as often as you light attack. You can now have it only on the front bar too.
For PvE, it's a bit meh either way. You'll probably have to both bar it, for the max stam bonus. Heavy attacks are 10% of your DPS and light attacks about 4%. So 11% of that is literally a -0.7% change in the DPS. Kind of irrelevant. But if you only use it on one bar you'll probably have space for Imbue Weapons which might lead to DPS increase. Might, is the keyword here of course; cause it might well not. We'll need to test.
But generally it's a good change. So is the new Persistence passive which helps with Stam sustain.
Would obviously be nice if one day the class gets a spammable instead of having to rely on Flying/Shrouded Daggers.But that's mostly for PvE, since in PvP the class is well suited to take advantage of weapons skills.EU | PC | AD0 -
Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I wonder how stam sorc do as they seem not to be well represented on the forum
They seem to be getting good buffs as far as I'm concerned. @Vapirko came in here to vent that no one talks about them, but as soon as I offered my opinion and asked him to expand on his... he do me a disappear.
Sorry if I don’t see every little notification on the forum. So what buff exactly are we getting? Bound armaments is being made close to useless for dds it seems. Some 2 second block bs? I’m not really a PvEr so I’m coming from a PvP perspective for the most part and this change does not seem good. I’ve suggested that a good change to bound armaments if it’s not going to be a toggle thereby only buffing regen on one bar due to the passives, that it function soemthing like the warden netch and return stam while sprinting since stam sorcs really only have mobility going for them. And the obvious other thing we lack is a class spammable of any kind which stam Templars, wardens and NBs all have. There have been some threads noting that it wouldn’t take much to bring stam sorcs back up to speed and honestly I don’t even think we need much help in the damage department, if we need any at all, and keeping bound armaments useful to dds and opening up that one extra skill slot goes a long way. But if bound armaments goes down the tube, we’re back where we started or worse off than before.
How is Bound Armaments becoming useless to DDs? Enlighten me.
It’s just being transformed into a skill that’s supppsed to double as a tank skill and a dd skill instead of being reimagined into something that will truly benefit Stam Sorc dds. I assume it’s part of ZOS trying to give every class the ability to do everything, something I don’t agree with. It might be fine in PvE where things are more controlled but for PvP the 2 second block buff is just too short a time and we don’t really need defensive help we need utility help. It ultimately remains to be seen when the full patch notes come out, but people have been putting forth good suggestions for stam sorcs for a while and this isn’t one of them.
No it's not. Bound Armaments is the damage morph. Bound Aegis is the tank morph.
Again, how is Bound Armaments becoming useless to DDs?
It’s being changed to feature a short Increase in block mitigation no?
No, that's Bound Aegis the defensive morph.
My mistake, someone up above switched the name and the description and I was going off that. However I still wouldn’t call it a buff as you propose, not yet anyway. Though it’s a step in the right direction and opens up possibility of making Stam Sorc a very competitive class.
According to the testers people were hitting 42k light attack crits during parses. Increased LA damage sounds like it's going to be a pretty massive buff to Bound Armaments. People just can't see beyond their own hysteria.Invictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT1 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I wonder how stam sorc do as they seem not to be well represented on the forum
They seem to be getting good buffs as far as I'm concerned. @Vapirko came in here to vent that no one talks about them, but as soon as I offered my opinion and asked him to expand on his... he do me a disappear.
Sorry if I don’t see every little notification on the forum. So what buff exactly are we getting? Bound armaments is being made close to useless for dds it seems. Some 2 second block bs? I’m not really a PvEr so I’m coming from a PvP perspective for the most part and this change does not seem good. I’ve suggested that a good change to bound armaments if it’s not going to be a toggle thereby only buffing regen on one bar due to the passives, that it function soemthing like the warden netch and return stam while sprinting since stam sorcs really only have mobility going for them. And the obvious other thing we lack is a class spammable of any kind which stam Templars, wardens and NBs all have. There have been some threads noting that it wouldn’t take much to bring stam sorcs back up to speed and honestly I don’t even think we need much help in the damage department, if we need any at all, and keeping bound armaments useful to dds and opening up that one extra skill slot goes a long way. But if bound armaments goes down the tube, we’re back where we started or worse off than before.
How is Bound Armaments becoming useless to DDs? Enlighten me.
It’s just being transformed into a skill that’s supppsed to double as a tank skill and a dd skill instead of being reimagined into something that will truly benefit Stam Sorc dds. I assume it’s part of ZOS trying to give every class the ability to do everything, something I don’t agree with. It might be fine in PvE where things are more controlled but for PvP the 2 second block buff is just too short a time and we don’t really need defensive help we need utility help. It ultimately remains to be seen when the full patch notes come out, but people have been putting forth good suggestions for stam sorcs for a while and this isn’t one of them.
No it's not. Bound Armaments is the damage morph. Bound Aegis is the tank morph.
Again, how is Bound Armaments becoming useless to DDs?
It’s being changed to feature a short Increase in block mitigation no?
No, that's Bound Aegis the defensive morph.
My mistake, someone up above switched the name and the description and I was going off that. However I still wouldn’t call it a buff as you propose, not yet anyway. Though it’s a step in the right direction and opens up possibility of making Stam Sorc a very competitive class.
According to the testers people were hitting 42k light attack crits during parses. Increased LA damage sounds like it's going to be a pretty massive buff to Bound Armaments. People just can't see beyond their own hysteria.
PvE parses really don’t concern me, as I mentioned earlier Im primary coming at this from PvP. I also play DW in PvP which does rely on a fair amount of heavy attacks so either way the damage increase to LA won’t affect me a ton I don’t think. So I standbye what I saiid about not calling it a buff just yet so much as leveling the playing field as no other class has a toggle buff. We will see how it performs in PvP first, i.e. how expensive it is to cast, how long it lasts, and how well ZOS considers its implementation into rotations. But as I said it’s definitely a good step towards building on the Stam Sorc class. Maybe give us a stam morph of curse and then we can really start calling this a buff.
@Maulkin where does it talk about the new persistence passive?Edited by Vapirko on April 12, 2018 1:25PM1 -
BaylorCorvette✭✭✭✭✭I know that ZoS wants all classes to play all roles but it is very clear that each class is steered in a specific section. DK > Tanks, Templars > Healers, Nightblade > Stealth, Sorc > Mobility.
Speaking strictly for PvP, I'd really like to see Streak cleanse snares and grant immunity for like 2 seconds. That would further the classes mobility mindset. As a StamSorc I'd be happy with that move despite a lack of class spammable.
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