Sorcerer Summerset Changes Discussion

Vahrokh

IAVITNI wrote: »

Ok. And how does cc removal affect sorcs in PvE? I’m against the damage nerf but not the cc nerf. I fail to see your issue.

If frags kept its cc, you couldn’t increase curse or fury damage without making the combo ridiculous.

I’m not talking about any class nerf besides the frag cc removal.

Have you ever played a sorc? Because what "cc" frags did, was evident on 99% of the non trial content and in some trial content.

Feanor

332 posts and counting. I already predict these will be for naught. I’ll be happy if the class doesn’t get adjustments because Rune Cage was buffed.

IAVITNI

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

IAVITNI wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

IAVITNI wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

IAVITNI wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

IAVITNI wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

rafaelcsmaia wrote: »

Anyone knows if this new reduction after block applies to ulti cost? It says generic cost just like alteration mastery (which does reduce ult cost), this could be insane for sorc tanks

Dont think so, sorcs already have a 15% ult cost reduction so I dont think they will slap on another 15% after blocking an attack.

For example, it would make meteor cost only 140 ult to cast.

I fail to see the problem xD

Unless you're talking about balance, then ya I guess it's a bad thing.

All in all I think the patch looks good based on what we've seen so far. While I don't think this will bring magsorcs back to where they used to be, ZoS is slowly moving forward, albeit in a 2 steps forward 1 step back fashion.

For instance, I agree with the CC removal to Frag (not the damage change). Yes, it really does ruin fluidity and has messed with itemization/builds quite a bit, but after the CC removal I don't think that there has been such diversity in the class. Before, every mag sorc pretty much built around frags (pet sorcs are a class on their own imo). Now sorcs can build around Clench, Cage or Streak.

100% agree sorc is lacking in a lot of aspects and isn't competitive with top dogs atm, but if Frags remained as overloaded as it did, any positive sorc changes would have made the class too strong. Sorc as an individual class is much healthier than before frag nerf because it has a much more rounded base. Can't build anything good with a crappy foundation, which is what SS looks to be addressing.

Mag sorcs will probably just need some fine-tuning while stam sorcs could use a few more benefits from passives, especially seeing as how they only benefit from 1 (maybe 2) passives from Daedric Summoning. Change those passives to benefit all sorcs (with increased benefit for pet sorcs) and we should see a significantly healthier class.

As OP pointed out we will get more benefit from the persistence passive now at least. If it’s any cast ability and not just those from the Daedric line that’s pretty huge. And will actually be hugely beneficial in solo pvp. It also doesn’t specify stam or mag and again if that’s both it’s pretty huge since this passive didn’t really do anything for stam sorcs before. Though idk f the wording is just vague for now and it’s only going to apply to dark magic still.

Persistence is a Dark magic passive, not Daedric Summonng. Sorcs have the most wasted passives except maybe templars. And by wasted I mean 0 benefit, not bad like Elder Dragon. If you don't run pets, you completely lose out on half of a skill trees passives.

*Edit-To be precise, stam sorcs on live receive absolutely 0 benefit from 6/12 passives, possibly 4/6 if they sacrifice 2 bar slots for Bound Armor and run Rune. Change this and stam sorcs will be in a much better place. And this should really be the first thing they change. 5/12 passives is an improvement, but still incredibly lacking.

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

IAVITNI wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

rafaelcsmaia wrote: »

Anyone knows if this new reduction after block applies to ulti cost? It says generic cost just like alteration mastery (which does reduce ult cost), this could be insane for sorc tanks

Dont think so, sorcs already have a 15% ult cost reduction so I dont think they will slap on another 15% after blocking an attack.

For example, it would make meteor cost only 140 ult to cast.

I fail to see the problem xD

Unless you're talking about balance, then ya I guess it's a bad thing.

All in all I think the patch looks good based on what we've seen so far. While I don't think this will bring magsorcs back to where they used to be, ZoS is slowly moving forward, albeit in a 2 steps forward 1 step back fashion.

For instance, I agree with the CC removal to Frag (not the damage change). Yes, it really does ruin fluidity and has messed with itemization/builds quite a bit, but after the CC removal I don't think that there has been such diversity in the class. Before, every mag sorc pretty much built around frags (pet sorcs are a class on their own imo). Now sorcs can build around Clench, Cage or Streak.

100% agree sorc is lacking in a lot of aspects and isn't competitive with top dogs atm, but if Frags remained as overloaded as it did, any positive sorc changes would have made the class too strong. Sorc as an individual class is much healthier than before frag nerf because it has a much more rounded base. Can't build anything good with a crappy foundation, which is what SS looks to be addressing.

Mag sorcs will probably just need some fine-tuning while stam sorcs could use a few more benefits from passives, especially seeing as how they only benefit from 1 (maybe 2) passives from Daedric Summoning. Change those passives to benefit all sorcs (with increased benefit for pet sorcs) and we should see a significantly healthier class.

I'm sorry, but your take on Frags tastes like word salad. Your premise that the CC component of Frags was 'overloaded' is complete retrospective baloney. Up until CWC there was literally just one thread asking for Frags CC to be removed - in 3+ years. Wrobel literally picked the one thing to nerf about sorc that no one had ever asked for.

Prior to frag cc removal, every sorcs bar pretty much looked the same. There was no wiggle room because nothing could compete with frags. Now you have Flame Clench sorcs, Rune Cage sorcs and Steak Sorcs (mostly 1vx open world). They all play differently and they all have their strengths/weaknesses. Before, the biggest choice sorcs had when it came to their offensive rotation was whether to backbar or front bar curse.

So no, I disagree that it's "word salad". The cc removal opened up build diversity, distinguished bad sorcs from good sorcs and opens up non-balance breaking buffs to the class.

The way the handled the frag nerf was bad for 3 reasons:
1. The real problem with sorcs wasn't their damage, it was Shield Staking+Pirate Skeleton
2. Frags was overloaded as a skill, but the class was not compensated for the nerf
3. Frags was nerfed twice in succession, when again it wasn't the primary issue. And you are correct that nobody, even non-sorcs asked for it

That said, the outcome is actually beneficial for the class if you actually look at how the class has evolved.While it hasn't gained depth, or linear progression, it has gained breadth--translating into a wider class base to build upon as well as increased build diversity.

Diversity is more than just what sets you put on. Skill diversity is just as important.

This is "subtractive diversity", that is, make something so bad, that after the nerf anything looks just as bad and thus, just as good.

Sorcs had pets and frags as distinctive signature. For years, pets have not been usable in PvP, so frags was effectively the one and only signature.

Take that away and now all we have left is a form of heavily diluted and poor version of "blink".

As of today, I could just create a magblade and be a better, more powerful and more unique sorc, than a sorc.

I completely agree that it is "subtractive diversity". But sometimes you can't keep building up if the foundation isn't large enough, which is simply wasn't.
My original post, which I am going to assume you didn't read, stated that while the frag nerf did knock down the overall performance of the class, it allows the possibility for some positive class changes because frags isn't so overloaded anymore. Lining up a +20k burst with a built in stun without ultimate on a potential 6 second cooldown was simply too much to allow for any positive buffs to the class anywhere else.

But apparently, because nobody can see anything except what they want to see:

TL;DR:
Sorc is in a place where they can receive positive buffs to elevate them to a competitive state with greater build diversity than it had before the frag nerf.

And I refer solely to the CC removal. I agree that either the damage or the cc removal was an option, and while the cc removal makes the class a lot more clunky to play successfully, it opens up greater diversity than a damage nerf would have.

I have read your post and... I did not care. Because the nerf does not just affect PvP, where for all what I care you can go and boil in it all life long - but it ruined some PvE situations that made skilled sorc players shine.
As ALWAYS, Wrobel tossed the baby with the PvP washwater.

Plus, the sentence: "while the frag nerf did knock down the overall performance of the class, it allows the possibility for some positive class changes because frags isn't so overloaded anymore" is just inadmissible.

Sure, you can destroy a class enough that anything you do after the nuclear strike, will be perceived as "positive". Hell yeah, this is brilliant! Oh, wait, it's just a bland excuse.

Ok. And how does cc removal affect sorcs in PvE? I’m against the damage nerf but not the cc nerf. I fail to see your issue.

If frags kept its cc, you couldn’t increase curse or fury damage without making the combo ridiculous.

I’m not talking about any class nerf besides the frag cc removal.

1) Neither Curse nor Fury dmg has been increased. Red herring much?
2) How does a CC on one of the most telegraphed, hard counterable, rng dependent projectiles in the game make the combo "ridiculous"?

1) Your response is taken out of context. Whole point is that if frags kept it's cc, you couldn't buff anything else about the class. No other CLASS skill (from a PvP perspective) was really overperforming besides Dark Deal (which is debatable). Without it's cc, sorcs can be buffed in a multitude of ways without becoming overbearing, this includes buffing curse/fury.
2) If it's so telegraphed and hard counterable, wouldn't you need to setup the frag via another cc such as streak/clench against a competent opponent anyways? The only real way to hit a frag is to cc before or bait your opponent into it. Frag is better off with a 20% damage buff w/o cc than w/a cc but only a 10% damage buff.

Vahrokh wrote: »

IAVITNI wrote: »

Ok. And how does cc removal affect sorcs in PvE? I’m against the damage nerf but not the cc nerf. I fail to see your issue.

If frags kept its cc, you couldn’t increase curse or fury damage without making the combo ridiculous.

I’m not talking about any class nerf besides the frag cc removal.

Have you ever played a sorc? Because what "cc" frags did, was evident on 99% of the non trial content and in some trial content.

I have yes. Both Mag and Stam in both PvE and PvP, admittedly PvE to a much lesser extent. Never noticed it on any non trial content (I only run Vets,most runs sub 15 minutes, vet II's can be 25-30) because I have a good team with good DPS and/or a tank that know's what they're doing. In trial content, Crushing Shock is much more reliable for interreupts. If you really need the CC on a proc based skill, get a better tank.

Vahrokh

IAVITNI wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

IAVITNI wrote: »

Ok. And how does cc removal affect sorcs in PvE? I’m against the damage nerf but not the cc nerf. I fail to see your issue.

If frags kept its cc, you couldn’t increase curse or fury damage without making the combo ridiculous.

I’m not talking about any class nerf besides the frag cc removal.

Have you ever played a sorc? Because what "cc" frags did, was evident on 99% of the non trial content and in some trial content.

I have yes. Both Mag and Stam in both PvE and PvP, admittedly PvE to a much lesser extent. Never noticed it on any non trial content (I only run Vets,most runs sub 15 minutes, vet II's can be 25-30) because I have a good team with good DPS and/or a tank that know's what they're doing. In trial content, Crushing Shock is much more reliable for interreupts. If you really need the CC on a proc based skill, get a better tank.

So, you self-restrict a whole class use-case to your own specific, elite case (vet II in 25-30 minutes, maybe 30k+ DPS) and impose it on the generality of everybody else?

You are the exception, not the rule. I run vet II in 25 minutes too, but only because I can setup a run with my vMoL guild mates on Discord and all that neat stuff, not because it's the general rule.

The general rule affecting 90% of the playerbase is: 22k DPS tops, normal trials tops, PUG normal + veteran 4 men. 3 DD + 1 tank or 3DD + 1 healer or 4DD runs, because barely decent tanks and healers are so rare. Outworld content, outworld bosses, PvP zone dailies and so on.
In all of this, the abilty to consistently keep at bay 2 or so dangerous adds thanks to frags was awesome and shown the difference between the average and the "situation aware" player.

I could solo some group content (for example, Shada's Tear) at CP 200, because I could CC the "1 shot-kill" mechanics NPCs.

Sure, now I could act all high and powerful like you, on behalf of my full CPs, vMA + master staff and fully gold-ed gear. Today I can act tall and mighty and just sit there and ignore 80% of the mechanics that once would have been deadly to me.

But unlike you, I stay with the others, the weaker, the majority.
They have the right to enjoy the game, exactly like you do, and no pathetic excuse of PvP they implemented in this game should ruin their gameplay.

IAVITNI

Vahrokh wrote: »

IAVITNI wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

IAVITNI wrote: »

Ok. And how does cc removal affect sorcs in PvE? I’m against the damage nerf but not the cc nerf. I fail to see your issue.

If frags kept its cc, you couldn’t increase curse or fury damage without making the combo ridiculous.

I’m not talking about any class nerf besides the frag cc removal.

Have you ever played a sorc? Because what "cc" frags did, was evident on 99% of the non trial content and in some trial content.

I have yes. Both Mag and Stam in both PvE and PvP, admittedly PvE to a much lesser extent. Never noticed it on any non trial content (I only run Vets,most runs sub 15 minutes, vet II's can be 25-30) because I have a good team with good DPS and/or a tank that know's what they're doing. In trial content, Crushing Shock is much more reliable for interreupts. If you really need the CC on a proc based skill, get a better tank.

So, you self-restrict a whole class use-case to your own specific, elite case (vet II in 25-30 minutes, maybe 30k+ DPS) and impose it on the generality of everybody else?

You are the exception, not the rule. I run vet II in 25 minutes too, but only because I can setup a run with my vMoL guild mates on Discord and all that neat stuff, not because it's the general rule.

The general rule affecting 90% of the playerbase is: 22k DPS tops, normal trials tops, PUG normal + veteran 4 men. 3 DD + 1 tank or 3DD + 1 healer or 4DD runs, because barely decent tanks and healers are so rare. Outworld content, outworld bosses, PvP zone dailies and so on.
In all of this, the abilty to consistently keep at bay 2 or so dangerous adds thanks to frags was awesome and shown the difference between the average and the "situation aware" player.

I could solo some group content (for example, Shada's Tear) at CP 200, because I could CC the "1 shot-kill" mechanics NPCs.

Sure, now I could act all high and powerful like you, on behalf of my full CPs, vMA + master staff and fully gold-ed gear. Today I can act tall and mighty and just sit there and ignore 80% of the mechanics that once would have been deadly to me.

But unlike you, I stay with the others, the weaker, the majority.
They have the right to enjoy the game, exactly like you do, and no pathetic excuse of PvP they implemented in this game should ruin their gameplay.

Ok. I'man officer in a casual guild, and I run with "newbies" frequently. Just stating what is possible.

I wasn't showboating my DPS parse, just stating that the stun on frags is hardly game changing considering that non-trial content besides DLC dungeons is anything but challenging on live. Even the one shot mechanics tend to only kill 1 player at a time, making it really hard for a full wipe. The harder (DLC/Vet IIs) dungeons are intended to be a challenge, so if the average player struggles, then it's exactly as it should be.

You're acting like the CC nerf is akin to the no crit proc nerf. The majority of players won't even notice the lack off cc in PvE content and those with the situational awareness of yourself are also likely to be self aware that they can improve and will do so making the removal of cc largely irelevant. Ironic, that you bring this up considering your opening post.

I'm against PvP changes affecting PvE (and vice versa) but I don't allow it to cloud my judgement regarding balance changes. Either the stun or a bit of damage on frags had to go. The 10% damage nerf was arguably done moreso due to PvE during the Sorc or bust meta. This affected PvP about as much as the CC nerf (disregarding the prior 10% damage nerf) affected PvE. Both PvE and PvP sorcs would benefit more from a 20% damage proc w/o cc than with a 10% damage proc w/ cc(the latter assumes that the power lost is redistributed elsewhere in the sorc kit)

Minalan

Looks like it’s overload ganking season boys!

Queens elegance set with lich and maybe willpower.

Put degeneration, rune cage, curse, harness, wrath on the overload bar.

Curse. Degeneration, rune cage, Overlol light, and wrath if it’s really needed - but probably not. Hue hue hue...

7-8K curse
15-18K or so LOL
4K if they break the cage
Wrath if they survive (lulz)

I really thought that the devs would be smarter than this. But they really aren’t. They won’t fix our class issues, but then they hand us a free unavoidable tactical nuclear weapon. I don’t even...

Chilly-McFreeze

I wouldn't get too exited about this. My magick 8 ball whispered to me that there will be untested last minute changes right before ss hits live, just like last time. Good moment to take something from sorcs

Maulkin

From natch potes:

Deep Fissure (Scorch morph): This morph no longer stuns the closest enemy hit. It now applies Major Breach to all enemies hit for 5 seconds.

Developer Comments:
In the same vein that snare abilities should either be short and powerful or long and weak, abilities should be low damage and CC, or high damage and no CC.

Same vain my arse. Removed the stun yet gave AoE Major Breach.

Meanwhile in Sorc Land, Crystal Fragments which require a proc:
- first had their damage nerfed
- then had the CC removed without reverting the damage nerfs
- still no buff/debuff attached to the skill.

Good troll Wrobel, 10/10, would get trolled again.

HoloYoitsu

@Minalan
The new crafted set.

Sload’s Semblance
2 – 1096 Maximum Magicka
3 – 1096 Maximum Stamina
4 – 129 Spell Damage
4 – 129 Weapon Damage
5 – Damaging an enemy has a 10% chance to put a Leeching Shadow on them, dealing 853 Oblivion Damage every 1 second for 6 seconds. This effect can occur every 6 seconds.

You thought shield breaker was bad? Now everyone can feel the pain, only doubly so for sorcs, who lack a strong instant/dot heal and have to rely on healing ward's delayed crap.

Maulkin

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

@Minalan
The new crafted set.

Sload’s Semblance
2 – 1096 Maximum Magicka
3 – 1096 Maximum Stamina
4 – 129 Spell Damage
4 – 129 Weapon Damage
5 – Damaging an enemy has a 10% chance to put a Leeching Shadow on them, dealing 853 Oblivion Damage every 1 second for 6 seconds. This effect can occur every 6 seconds.

You thought shield breaker was bad? Now everyone can feel the pain, only doubly so for sorcs, who lack a strong instant/dot heal and have to rely on healing ward's delayed crap.

I can already tell that set will be absolute meta in no-CP BGs, especially for DoT builds. It blows Viper and Red Mountain out of the water.

Minalan

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

@Minalan
The new crafted set.

Sload’s Semblance
2 – 1096 Maximum Magicka
3 – 1096 Maximum Stamina
4 – 129 Spell Damage
4 – 129 Weapon Damage
5 – Damaging an enemy has a 10% chance to put a Leeching Shadow on them, dealing 853 Oblivion Damage every 1 second for 6 seconds. This effect can occur every 6 seconds.

You thought shield breaker was bad? Now everyone can feel the pain, only doubly so for sorcs, who lack a strong instant/dot heal and have to rely on healing ward's delayed crap.

It’s about 5K unavoidable on a proc. But it’s a six second DOT luckily - so you can heal ward the whole thing off after the first or second tick.

Plus, remember they buffed blood magic and fixed the ‘lol no heals for you’ proc bug on that passive.

Shieldbreaker is still far worse.

Minalan

Maulkin wrote: »

From natch potes:

Deep Fissure (Scorch morph): This morph no longer stuns the closest enemy hit. It now applies Major Breach to all enemies hit for 5 seconds.

Developer Comments:
In the same vein that snare abilities should either be short and powerful or long and weak, abilities should be low damage and CC, or high damage and no CC.

Same vain my arse. Removed the stun yet gave AoE Major Breach.

Meanwhile in Sorc Land Crystal Fragments which require a proc:
- first had their damage nerfed
- then had the CC removed without reverting the damage nerfs
- still no buff/debuff attached to the skill.

Good troll Wrobel, 10/10, would get trolled again.

@ZOS_Wrobel is completely out of his gourd on this one.

Major breach pretty much kills off spell resistance. I’m okay with that, but they really need to Fix Frags already! FFS!

HoloYoitsu

Minalan wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

@Minalan
The new crafted set.

Sload’s Semblance
2 – 1096 Maximum Magicka
3 – 1096 Maximum Stamina
4 – 129 Spell Damage
4 – 129 Weapon Damage
5 – Damaging an enemy has a 10% chance to put a Leeching Shadow on them, dealing 853 Oblivion Damage every 1 second for 6 seconds. This effect can occur every 6 seconds.

You thought shield breaker was bad? Now everyone can feel the pain, only doubly so for sorcs, who lack a strong instant/dot heal and have to rely on healing ward's delayed crap.

It’s about 5K unavoidable on a proc. But it’s a six second DOT luckily - so you can heal ward the whole thing off after the first or second tick.

Plus, remember they buffed blood magic and fixed the ‘lol no heals for you’ proc bug on that passive.

Shieldbreaker is still far worse.

Ppl will stack it with shieldbreaker and oblivion glyphs. Then just remember that the proc will stack on u if there's multiple ppl running this set. And unlike shieldbreaker, you can't dodge the oblivion dmg.

Priyasekarssk

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Irylia wrote: »

Builds: sorc shackle domi lich master nirn 3x spell glyphs 3.3k spell 40k mag

Now imagine how strong sorc would be on a petbuild or on something with 50-60k max magicka (Shadowrend, Necropotence) if sorc would be good in duels with your build (and shackle, domi, lich is not a duel build, period). It's funny, because I suffer (just as every other open world build) from the same issue, I'm playing a med armor rollerblade in duels and I can't compete with duel cheese builds as well, I accpeted that a year ago when ZOS started to release sets which only work in duels. (To be fair, rollerblade is currently a bit better than your sorc build but on the other hand stamnb can't build such extreme cheese builds anymore as sorc can).

Minalan wrote: »

Irylia wrote: »

If you believe magsorc is better than magblade in duels, you should just leave this thread now.

If you believe streak is fine how it is (cost increase/incapable of use on slopes/delay front/end) and that getting trained down by classes who expend far less resources, once again, leave this thread now.

If you believe that clench/prison are superior to frag stun do not pass go do not collect 200, just leave this thread.

If you don't understand the crippling state of wards in anything except maybe a duel, get off my lawn and leave this thread.

There are sorcs here who understand the pains of this class and aren't zerg surfing while spamming fury in a no regen build.

You can respond to my comment trying to justify yourself and say I'm wrong, but I'm not.

Here's a funny thing to consider. We are given crit and pen with our light armor passives meanwhile a stam class in heavy still has the same pen (weapons/cp considering) and can reach the same crit chance with little to no effort.

45% crit chance on magsorc with iL and light armor bonus.
42% crit on stamden with lotus fury/bs

5k pen from light armor 3k pen cp magsorc
5k pen sub assault and 2-3k pen cp stamden

I don't even have to try and I get the things that light armor classes are so graciously given.
In addition I have
- 26k hp
- 30k resistances.
- 4.5k weapon damage.
- 1.4k base regen/constitution/netch/passive sustain/2h heavy (dps/empower/faster to use/can move while swinging), pot/2h kill/continuous 2.2k regen.
- major heroism + ult gen w/ asylum
- shimmering is a better ward
- 3k impen
- major expedition and snare immunity
-minor protection on my res buff

That's just stamden. Stamblade is another monster.

I am sorry that only have one insightful to give man.

Most of our complaints is that Sorc is ‘ok’ but it is NOT competitive in fights against competent players of many other classes.

It’s not just dueling. It means when you meet someone good in Cyrodiil by yourself, it means that you can’t escape. You can fight back, but in the end you are going to LOSE and it’s not because you need to ‘git gud’. It’s a balance issue that has not been addressed.

There are a lot of “false flag” Sorcs in here saying we don’t need any changes or buffs, that’s because they ENJOY killing you on their nightblades, stamdens, and Wardens without a lot of thought or work on their part.

@Irylia however is one of the best Sorc duelists around. When he says there’s a problem, it’s because there IS a problem. Not because he’s bad at Sorc, because he’d tear up almost anyone here.

But sorc is competitive. It's just not competitive against a duel build while running around with an open world build. And for duels... well... just let me say that petsorc currently is the strongest duel build which you can play.

About what are you complaining if you exclude duels? Do you want to tell me that sorc is bad in open world? You can just avoid fighting every duel build which you encounter in open world simply by streaking away, most of them don't even have a gapcloser.

Edit: I've heard that a dual wield magsorc won a tournament on your server. You clearly can't win against good players on magsorc

Let’s be honest here: Pet Sorcs are great in duels because the game targeting is broken. If you could lock onto the Sorc with tab and hit them consistently, they would go down faster than a sorority girl in Cabo on spring break. The broken targeting gameplay does NOT MAKE THEM A GOOD OR BALANCED CLASS. Pet Sorcs get destroyed anywhere that isn’t a neat empty 10x10 dueling square and you know it.

Was that a Legends tourney? I’m guessing not. They actually had to hold a separate sorcerer tourney because Sorcs haven’t placed in the top five in a year. I wouldn’t be surprised if a SORC won a SORC tourney.

And If you think we’re so competitive, try playing one. I get it, stam DK sucks. Because Sorc is slightly better than the worst PVP class in the game doesn’t make us balanced compared to stamina Wardens and night blades.

It’s not just dueling, it’s just about every 1v1 you get into. Unless you are way ahead of the other guy in the skill gap they are going to win. You can’t escape, streak is far too expensive, your mobility is terrible, and your ONE damage skill is tied to a *** proc and does a whopping 7K.

Seriously, if you’re not a sorc main, then please GTFO. We’ve heard enough nightblade *** in nearly every nerf Sorc thread this year.

Yes, I've mained a magicka sorc during homestead because of how ridiculous the class was during that time You can make sorc strong in duels without pets too, just use Shadowrend and get a high magicka pool. Did you ever fight a magicka sorc with 55k magicka? It's pretty strong.

You're a funny little dude. Compaing magicka sorc to stamina Dk. Let me remind you that magicka gets a lot of direct and indirect buffs while stamdk gets *** hahaha.
If you lose every 1v1 you get into then you are a bad player and you will continue to lose even with buffs. As soon as any class has some form of magicka damage (even stamblades and stamdks have that with Shade/Volatile Armor) you can just jump in circles while pressing two buttons over and over again without ever having to worry about magicka sustain. You can force a draw against pretty much everything but full duel builds (which you can Streak away from), god forbid that you can't kill anything with Frags, Curse and Fury with that much defense. You don't want sorc to be competitive. You want sorc to be a no risk and high reward class like it was once.
I know exactly one single sorc who plays without Harness while still having huge success (on a build that doesn't stack 50k+ magicka) and who wants shieldstacking to be removed from the game. Without Harness I agree that sorc needs some offensive buffs, but we all know that the sorc community would go on rampage if Harness gets touched.

King_Thelon wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

King_Thelon wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

I don't pretend to be an authority on the class

Yet your drivel in this thread is outshined only by the youngling who thinks that MagSorc is better than MagBlade in duels.

I wouldn’t expect you to say otherwise. Judging by your gameplay on YouTube you probably think every single class in this game is better than mag sorc.

When you main a MagBlade and think Sorcs are better in duels, we all know whose gameplay is suspect.

Petsorc (or even a regular high max magicka sorc) can compete with magblade very well, but I'm sure you know that. Every sorc in this thread knows it, it just wouldn't fit their agenda. Let alone ignore the fact that magblade deals magicka damage and sorc doesn't need to worry about sustain at all in this matchup.

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

About what are you complaining if you exclude duels? Do you want to tell me that sorc is bad in open world? You can just avoid fighting every duel build which you encounter in open world simply by streaking away, most of them don't even have a gapcloser.

Edit: I've heard that a dual wield magsorc won a tournament on your server. You clearly can't win against good players on magsorc

So your way of judging a class in open world PVP is the ability to run away from good players? Interesting ...

Yes? A mobility sustain build should lose to a no mobility niche duel build unless you play better than your opponent. This is the case on every open world build, why should magsorc be an exception?

First no one will use pet sorc main in cyrodil. Even to be considered as meta. Second, shadowrend is garbage and written off by many players. I would choose, Zaan to shawdowrend any day. Even Maw of Infernal set is way better choice than shadowrend for pet builds used in PVE. Shadowrend set requires huge buff to considere even viable on par in PVP. Dont mistake.Wizard reposte have more up-time of minor mime than shadowrend and very effective against multiple targets. Your argument doesnt make any sense. A garbage set used by tank build is overpowered in PVP ? Shadowrend not even compete with shadow image used by NB, despite its single slot in an active bar. Wizard reposte is for everyone. You even argue shadorend is overpowered than Wizard reposte. You cant be serious.

All magicka build requires atleast 15K stamina and 1500 recovery and spell damage. Rest is only max magicka. If anyone goes for 60k max magicka that can only be obtained with bound armor & inner light with 1 pet active. 6 slots gone. Lets even pretend that he does , he needs 1 shield and 1 heal for PVP. Literally only 2 slots are available. 10K stamina is not possible to compete against NB. No matter how many magicka you have. 2 CC you are dead. You cannot spam immovable pods either. Please bring relevant argument backed by facts to serious discussion.

Chilly-McFreeze

Minalan wrote: »

Plus, remember they buffed blood magic and fixed the ‘lol no heals for you’ proc bug on that passive.

That blood magic passive acts really wierd. Maybe it's an addon issue, but the float text tells my very often that I got a BM heal ... on my stam sorc with no dark magic abilites slotted. Strange stuff.

Minalan

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Plus, remember they buffed blood magic and fixed the ‘lol no heals for you’ proc bug on that passive.

That blood magic passive acts really wierd. Maybe it's an addon issue, but the float text tells my very often that I got a BM heal ... on my stam sorc with no dark magic abilites slotted. Strange stuff.

You sure That’s not after a dark deal?

PS: PTS Sorc feedback thread is up. Supposedly someone actually reads those, so make sure your voice gets heard:

Happy? Not Happy? Why?

Lord-Otto

Just prepare for the Sload set sickness, guys. I already have a in mind who will defend this set comboed with Shieldbreaker...
(^_-)

Not convinced with Rune Cage. So it really damages upon break free... That is a bit awkward to time and might allow for a HoT tick. I am doubtful about this being a gamechanging buff...

Maulkin

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Just prepare for the Sload set sickness, guys. I already have a in mind who will defend this set comboed with Shieldbreaker...
(^_-)

Not convinced with Rune Cage. So it really damages upon break free... That is a bit awkward to time and might allow for a HoT tick. I am doubtful about this being a gamechanging buff...

It looks nice, but finding bar space for it is where the problem lies. I've been toying with the idea of dropping Frags or Fury, since you have to front bar this fecker.

I've mostly been thinking about those Bloodthirsty jewellery traits that buff damage against low health targets. Maybe if you have one of those, then Fury becomes less necessary outside of BG Deathmatches and KS'ing. A Frag on low health should hit about as hard as Fury currently does. And if I only have to sacrifice 1k Magicka for it, so be it.

Otherwise, maybe do away with Frags and just do Curse->Reach(x3) and repeat until you get a Meteor and the you can do Curse->Fury->Meteor->Rune Cage->Reach.

Could always do nothing and stay as is, ofc.

Lord-Otto

Maulkin wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Just prepare for the Sload set sickness, guys. I already have a in mind who will defend this set comboed with Shieldbreaker...
(^_-)

Not convinced with Rune Cage. So it really damages upon break free... That is a bit awkward to time and might allow for a HoT tick. I am doubtful about this being a gamechanging buff...

It looks nice, but finding bar space for it is where the problem lies. I've been toying with the idea of dropping Frags or Fury, since you have to front bar this fecker.

I've mostly been thinking about those Bloodthirsty jewellery traits that buff damage against low health targets. Maybe if you have one of those, then Fury becomes less necessary outside of BG Deathmatches and KS'ing. A Frag on low health should hit about as hard as Fury currently does. And if I only have to sacrifice 1k Magicka for it, so be it.

Otherwise, maybe do away with Frags and just do Curse->Reach(x3) and repeat until you get a Meteor and the you can do Curse->Fury->Meteor->Rune Cage->Reach.

Could always do nothing and stay as is, ofc.

I have it frontbarred already. Along with Master Reach. That's not my concern. Rather, can it replace Reach consistently to allow me Force Pulse and a Willpower staff?
Only extensive testing can show, atm I'm critical.

Minalan

Maulkin wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Just prepare for the Sload set sickness, guys. I already have a in mind who will defend this set comboed with Shieldbreaker...
(^_-)

Not convinced with Rune Cage. So it really damages upon break free... That is a bit awkward to time and might allow for a HoT tick. I am doubtful about this being a gamechanging buff...

It looks nice, but finding bar space for it is where the problem lies. I've been toying with the idea of dropping Frags or Fury, since you have to front bar this fecker.

I've mostly been thinking about those Bloodthirsty jewellery traits that buff damage against low health targets. Maybe if you have one of those, then Fury becomes less necessary outside of BG Deathmatches and KS'ing. A Frag on low health should hit about as hard as Fury currently does. And if I only have to sacrifice 1k Magicka for it, so be it.

Otherwise, maybe do away with Frags and just do Curse->Reach(x3) and repeat until you get a Meteor and the you can do Curse->Fury->Meteor->Rune Cage->Reach.

Could always do nothing and stay as is, ofc.

Cage on the overload bar. Empower, curse, cage, light attack OL for the cheese. Best part is, you can keep doing it.

I think Makkir fried himself once with a reflected overload

TheTraveler

Vapirko wrote: »

The main point to take away is that stam sorcs got ignored/a small nerf. Hoping to see some love to stam sorcs in the full patch notes.

I've just spent a lot of time and resources leveling my first stam sorc ever, so I'm feeling a bit sad about that, since I was really enjoying the playstyle.

It's wonderful about the 1handed = 2 pieces though. I'm hoping that would include bows?