What exactly do you think top priority for server issues would look like?

Turning off the game until they've completely upgraded the servers and redone their coding?

VaranisArano wrote: »

What exactly do you think top priority for server issues would look like?

Turning off the game until they've completely upgraded the servers and redone their coding?

maybe postpone DLC to work on in game issues?

There is a poll already with plenty of comments and votes. We should consider focusing attention in only one thread and not disolve it into many.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/393101/does-zenimax-needs-to-improve-the-servers#latest

itzTJ wrote: »

@Im_MegaDeath Your post is up there too and actually the last post i read about this.. Then i thought well this is ridiculous, how many threads need to be created about this?

it is! The game is in very poor shape and needs to be fixed. Performance needs a buff!!!!

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Im_MegaDeath wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

What exactly do you think top priority for server issues would look like?

Turning off the game until they've completely upgraded the servers and redone their coding?

maybe postpone DLC to work on in game issues?

Pretty sure that different teams are working on these. The guys who design zones or any art related stuff don't do infrastructure work. Devs are not interchangeable.

Be kind of cool if they could be though. ALL HANDS ON SERVER CODE, NOW!

I hear what you're saying and I actually made the same post in another thread. Think about it another way though, ZOS is a big development studio so they could move the artists/level designers off ESO onto another project, and they could move the architects and staff/principle engineers back onto ESO to do the heavy lifting that the current maintenance team is incapable of. Remember these are "resources" not individuals

Kanar wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Im_MegaDeath wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

What exactly do you think top priority for server issues would look like?

Turning off the game until they've completely upgraded the servers and redone their coding?

maybe postpone DLC to work on in game issues?

Pretty sure that different teams are working on these. The guys who design zones or any art related stuff don't do infrastructure work. Devs are not interchangeable.

Be kind of cool if they could be though. ALL HANDS ON SERVER CODE, NOW!

I hear what you're saying and I actually made the same post in another thread. Think about it another way though, ZOS is a big development studio so they could move the artists/level designers off ESO onto another project, and they could move the architects and staff/principle engineers back onto ESO to do the heavy lifting that the current maintenance team is incapable of. Remember these are "resources" not individuals

Not easily done. With complex code like this, the folk who work on, say, "Project A" might not have any clue on how the folk who have been working on "Project B" went about things. It's just an extension of the "all devs are interchangeable". It takes a fair bit of time to come up to speed on an application of this complexity. Now, the art folk might be able to be used in that manner assuming the same tools are used in both "Project A" and "Project B".

It's just not a feasible method, with some few exceptions. Best to keep teams together due to familiarity (both in the code and each other, thus a good, working team).

itzTJ wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Kanar wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Im_MegaDeath wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

What exactly do you think top priority for server issues would look like?

Turning off the game until they've completely upgraded the servers and redone their coding?

maybe postpone DLC to work on in game issues?

Pretty sure that different teams are working on these. The guys who design zones or any art related stuff don't do infrastructure work. Devs are not interchangeable.

Be kind of cool if they could be though. ALL HANDS ON SERVER CODE, NOW!

I hear what you're saying and I actually made the same post in another thread. Think about it another way though, ZOS is a big development studio so they could move the artists/level designers off ESO onto another project, and they could move the architects and staff/principle engineers back onto ESO to do the heavy lifting that the current maintenance team is incapable of. Remember these are "resources" not individuals

Not easily done. With complex code like this, the folk who work on, say, "Project A" might not have any clue on how the folk who have been working on "Project B" went about things. It's just an extension of the "all devs are interchangeable". It takes a fair bit of time to come up to speed on an application of this complexity. Now, the art folk might be able to be used in that manner assuming the same tools are used in both "Project A" and "Project B".

It's just not a feasible method, with some few exceptions. Best to keep teams together due to familiarity (both in the code and each other, thus a good, working team).

Ya this is probably right. The thing is they should put resources into figuring it out. If that means hiring 10 new people to work on the servers then great. 6 new people for every platform to make sure everything is running good on a weekly basis? Sounds great. But they dont seem to be doing this. The issues persist and get worse. And im happy that sometimes we even get a "we are actively investing the lag" in a comment on a random forum post, but its not enough.. We need results and more information about whats going on. We wont get it, but that is whats right.

Zenimax online studios has zenimax and bethesda behind them. They have an mmo where soooo many people subscribe. They have the crown store where so many players spend money. Dlcs that anyone who wants to play this game seriously need to have (or have eso plus). Chapters that even eso plus members are now paying for. Idk, compared to other mmos that do maintain there servers it just seems to me that they should have more than enough resources to hire even a few people to fix this issue.

And if they dont then thats a problem. But its a zos problem that we shouldn't have to deal with. We bought it and many of us pay for a subscription. It needs to work correctly, thats whats right. And obviousley things go wrong, but a major issue like this going on for so long with such little information, and anything being fixed, is unforgivable.

Having worked for and owned a dev house (not gaming, much much much less complex), I can see this all from another POV which gives me a bit more patience than the average user.

The costs involved are stupendous when everything is taken into consideration from the servers down to the office supplies. It has to be enormous. That said pretty sure they are making a decent profit otherwise well, doors would be closed.

We don't know that they haven't already added more folk to address the problem. Again, there is a learning curve. Each project whether it be tiny or huge takes a newcomer awhile to come up to speed, not only with the code itself but the team, how things are done etc. We also don't know what relationship there is between them and their providers. "Is it our code or is it something on the hardware and its code?"

I'm of a mind that there is something to this that is problematic for them. No company in their right mind is going to just blow off a problem like this. It's their livelihood plus their sense of pride in their product and professionalism. This leads me to believe that a simple fix is not on offer and that it might, just might, have to do with things other than their code.

Most of the time people who code do their damndest to keep it working well but rarely (if ever) is there perfection. I grant there's a way to go between what is happening in Cyro and perfection.

What I'd love to see is more transparency. They're already damned so maybe that approach would help folk understand a bit better especially if it's not something that is under ZMax's direct control. It may be that due to some obscure reason they, ZMax, are having to re-do code to work with what is causing the problem. Yes, speculative on my part but I've seen just this sort of thing too many times to not give it consideration.

Let folk know, ZMax, some will understand and be more patient. Others will rant (but they already are, so no loss there).

Apache_Kid wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

@Apache_Kid & @Kanar , not here to debate this because none of us know the realities. We are all speculating. I simply speculate based on my experience in the field. Unless and until ZMax decides to be completely transparent about their business practices that's all we can do, speculate.

I offered some things to consider based on what I encountered in my career which ran the gamut between "coffee girl" to "dev house owner". FWIW...

I never said that I knew or that I wasn't speculating so we agree there. I have never worked in software development but I do have a few friends that do and have discussed the issues this game has many times with them as it continues to be a mind-blowing topic of conversation.

It's a crazy business and not one for those without pretty damn thick skins and a desire to work hard, do their best which is why I tend to get grouchy when I see "armchair coders" holding forth.

Without knowing all the facts, all we are doing here is guessing and I hate seeing anyone categorised, dismissed, reviled without knowing the entire story. They could be evil incarnate or subject to the whims of someone/thing else. I simply refuse to believe that they are intentionally ignoring the issue (and the other issues) if for no other reason that's cutting off their nose to spite their faces.

Or, to put it au courant; It's complicated

I agree with everything you said here. Like you, I don't think they are actively ignoring the issue while having the ability to make it better. More likely they either can't fix it, or would love to, but don't have the resources and can't get those resources given to them. I'm sure the actual people who work on this game daily would love to have more resources to improve the infrastructure but they might not be able to get them so that could also be what's at play.

With all of that being said, we can't speak or interact with those higher-ups that allocate the resources for the studio and when players get frustrated to the point where they lash out on here, who can blame them? I certainly cannot. Especially when many of them pay $15/month and spend extra money on crowns with nothing to show for it except two new dungeons every 3 months or maybe a small new area with a couple bosses and a delve. Players aren't seeing the money that's being spent in the game being re-invested back into it and that causes players to lose faith with the devs. Look at how expensive the houses and the crates and new costumes are. They must be selling lots of these items, because if they weren't selling, then the prices would be lowered. So where is all this money that is being spent going? It's clearly not going into infrastructure upgrades because performance has gotten worse on my platform overall during the last 12 months so is it just going into the pockets of the parent company of ZoS?

I know you said you didn't really want to discuss this issue as it's all speculation but I just wanted to express those thoughts.

Bah, I have a fresh cup of coffee so...

I can blame them, and here's why. We have a choice in how we interact with people, all people. We can be calm, polite and reasonable or we can behave like toddlers in dire need of a nap. Now, which do you think it more likely to not be dismissed by those who are on the receiving end?

Yes! Frustration abounds in some of these issues but I don't see that EVER as an excuse to behave as I've seen some folk do here (and other forums).

And now...here's my thought on "where is all the money going". Is the company publicly traded? If so...bingo. This is why I dislike it when a dev house gets bought by one of the "bigs", it becomes all about that vaunted bottom line. Milk the cow 'til it's dry, suck out every last bit of marrow and then put the software into "maintenance mode".

My gut tells me there is something going on either with the hardware itself or the way that the software was written to interface with the hardware and something wasn't foreseen.

Meh, now I need another cup to go play the game.