josiahva wrote: »

You can't encourage people to tank. It takes a specific personality to tank. They tend to be grounded and strategic players, whereas ranged DPS tend to be more high-strung tactical players, not sure the personality it takes to be a healer, but certainly closer to a tank than a DPS. Its more a personality type than anything else I have noticed. Yes, I can play a DPS or a healer, but I just don't enjoy either as much as tanking so I will naturally default toward the tank role unless a group specifically needs some other role, and unsurprisingly people will be best at the role the default toward, you cant encourage someone to play a role they don't enjoy.

Defiantly agree with this, especially those who maim a tank. Plenty of solid players CAN tank, the personality makes them want to tank.

For me the big issue is that, as many have said, end game tanking requires builds that are maxed out for survivability, not damage, it’s great in a dungeon or a trial but utterly useless everywhere else

They said on the last eso live that most people only have two charecters, so why would you choose the effectively shut one of them down, nobody wants to pull half a dozen welwa only to find it takes so long to kill them that I have time to go for a walk or make a sandwich

I hate to dps, I can do it but I hate it. I love tanking and healing though. If I can dps and have to do group support at the same time I'd do it in a heartbeat. But unfortunately, meta doesn't allow that. So it's tanking and healing for me.

I thought about this issue a couple of weeks ago and developed an idea that could improve the magycka tank perspective. I proposed a new way of tanking where you use damage shields insead of armor and spell mitigation to reduce and negate incoming attacks:



https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/390397/ice-mage-tanking-proposal

I invite you to read the proposal and add your feedback on the comments. Personally, I think it is a well thought rework.

Zypheran wrote: »

I think the problems are as follows;
- It isn't fun to be a tank
- it isn't necessary to have a tank
- it's a nightmare to solo as a tank

Solutions to make tanking fun
- make it visually awesome. A tank should look the part. Make it look like the orcs from WOW i.e. massive. [color--blue] OMG, WoW graphics are hideous and the hyper stereotype bodies are a shame [/color]
- make the tanks weapon awesome. Two handed weapons are a bit meh. So why not make them tanking weapons. Change the skill line to allow it to block and aoe knockback. And make them look awesome. A tank greataxe should look like something that would break down a wall. I know u might be thinking what would that achieve but visuals are important in making something feel awesome. Maybe introduce a new weapon line called warhammer. It could look awesome and have skills aimed at tanking tanks already have their own weapon tree, and it makes way more sense than a 2H
- allow tanks do damage. The average dps is say 15-20k we'll say. Well then just give 2h a mega heavy attack. Let mauls, greataxes and greatswords hit with a mega punch. A heavy attack from one of these should be delivering 15-20k damage. That would feel awesome as a tank and super fun to play the visually amazing looking tank that can hit you with one super punch. This would also address the issue of it being crappy to solo as a tank. and now PvP blows up, wont die and can still kill?
- perhaps allow tank damage to scale off and consume health
Solutions to make tanks necessary Oh tanks are nessary. Baby tanks with baby DPS in baby dungeons, and vat tanks with vet DPS in Vet trials.
- any good dps can solo a dungeon because the damage output from enemies is just too low. The whole point of a tank is to be able to take the heavy hits that the rest of the group can't. Well then make sure there are heavy hits that the rest can't take. I'm sorry to say but normal dungeons need a buff. And we get no new players because everything is too hard Not only do dps not need tanks in their groups but they don't even need groups. Put in more mini boses with attacks that one shot any that haven't invested heavily in damage mitigation. I'd like to see a situation where it takes people longer to run a dungeon without a tank because they keep dying if they don't have a tank to take the big hits
- make it the tanks job to apply concussed and off balance which do you want? Tanks to tank more or tanks to do your DPS for you?
- nerf penetration and buff breach/fracture So that if groups want increased dps and faster runs they NEED a tank
- stop fake tanks. Put the tank role behind some sort of gate. You can't select tank role if your physical resistance is under X. Then give double XP for finishing a random as a tank.

Two actual ideas, wont stop people from trying to Hero it. Wont stop fake tanks since half a fake tanks problem is just not knowing how to tank. Hold the boss still, gather up ads, stop mechanics, none have anything to do with how much resistance.

Apologies but I am far too lazy to read all the posts here so if this has been mentioned already then soz.

I am getting sick of the fake tank epidemic. Dungeons have become unplayable. I suggest that if you queue as a tank, you take more damage than the rest of your group. Crazy, I know right, but it will make me feel good.

ZOS doesn't like perma-blocking in PVE any more than they do in PVP. Nerfing tanks is a good way to keep PVE content challenging without having to make the actual fight any harder from their end.

When nerfing tanks hits two birds with one stone, why are people surprised that ZOS is nerfing tanks? They have PVE and PVP reasons to do it.

VaranisArano wrote: »

ZOS doesn't like perma-blocking in PVE any more than they do in PVP. Nerfing tanks is a good way to keep PVE content challenging without having to make the actual fight any harder from their end.

When nerfing tanks hits two birds with one stone, why are people surprised that ZOS is nerfing tanks? They have PVE and PVP reasons to do it.

They don't like permablocking but keep making boss fights require it -_-

elijafire wrote: »

Vhozek wrote: »

Is there anything we can think of that could be a good request for the devs to add to the game? I was thinking that if your HP is higher than your other stats you get extra EXP.
Edit: I know this isn't the best idea, but it's an example of what type of discussion is expected in this thread.

Anyone can tank. Literally anyone. I tank on my full Magic DK DPS guy, simply put the taunt on your bar and stack shields.

End game tanks are over saturated we need more DPS that actually know how to pull 20k on a parse.

Well people don't know ESO is fundamentally broken and you are meant to perform all sorts of gimnicks to achieve high DPS. No tutorial explaining what light attack weaving is, what block casting is and so on.

VaranisArano wrote: »

ZOS doesn't like perma-blocking in PVE any more than they do in PVP. Nerfing tanks is a good way to keep PVE content challenging without having to make the actual fight any harder from their end.

When nerfing tanks hits two birds with one stone, why are people surprised that ZOS is nerfing tanks? They have PVE and PVP reasons to do it.

Going to have a hard time finding tanks. No ome is going to want to do it.

Very simple: Dual Specialization!

See, I want to tank. I do. But I also want to be able to do things like vMA, and do some questing, and farm some public dungeon bosses, and do some other stuff that requires high DPS and completely different morphs, and completely different CP layout, and completely different gear. I also like to PvP a little when I feel like punishing myself, and experience Cyrodiil lag in all its glory. So, given a choice between doing all this stuff, or being a tank, guess which one I would pick?

The solution is simple, one that other MMOs like WoW have had for 10 years now. It is called Dual Specialization! (WoW introduced dual spec in '08). With a single click of a mouse in WoW, the game will swap your action bars, charge your spec, change your gear for you, etc. Want to be a tank? Click. Done. Want to be a healer? Click. Done. Easy peasy.

By comparison, if I want to tank in ESO? Manually switch all my gear. Pay to reset my morphs, ALL of them, because god forbid we get to reset just the ones we want! Re-do ALL of them. Pay to reset my CP. Reassign almost all of them. Then manually set my action bars, all 2-3 of them, depending on class. It's a lot of work. Too much work.

And ZOS, you can MAKE MONEY off of it! So much money! Just sell these extra specialization slots, like you sell character slots, and are about to start selling outfit slots. Why not make some extra money for yourselves AND improve the whole tank/healer shortage situation in your game in one fell swoop?

The man issue is the Base game mechanics do not support any true tanking. the whoel game is build around dps and being able to animation cancel for max dps. There really is very little boss positioning, agro management , CC, or pulling techniques .its pull them all stack and burn. most of the other effects and mechanics are secondary applications of a dps ability.

The problem is the variance in the game. Wall of text warning...

First off, everyone talking about solo content in a tank build, just stop. Make a dps/questing setup for your tank character and solo is no issue. There are more than enough skill points, I have a tank of each class and they all have dps builds, maxed crafting, etc and still have points left over. But tank is a group role, not a solo role.

But the problem is that nobody really seems to agree on what makes a tank and what content needs a tank. Posters are saying no tanks needed in these dungeons (which can be true), some talk about non vet content, some about trials, some hard mode, etc.

Biggest thing ZoS could do - something they won't btw b/c manpower goes to putting out new stuff to sell, not fixing existing stuff outside of keeping the shop open - is every dungeon needs to be overhauled. They all need tweaks and balancing so their isn't a huge difficulty jump going from one dungeon to the next (when doing them at the same level in vet). If one feels like you can run it with only two people and no support roles at all, then it probably needs to be looked at. I don't think having the new DLC dungeons be a little harder is a bad thing, but the jump from base game dungeons to DLC dungeons is silly.

As it stands, tanks probably don't want to feel like they aren't needed in runs that are easier and then feeling like the can barely juggle their resources in the new content after countless nerfs. As a tank, I really don't care to hear "a tank isn't even really needed for this content" before doing a dungeon - gee thanks. How about make sure the content needs a tank if it's a four man run. That right there will sap fun out of it for some tanks - nothing like setting up all this great maxed out gear for ten different situations, getting good at your role, and then hearing how you aren't needed to make the game fun for you!

But half the time, we read threads like these, you see one person saying they can tank no problem with this or with that and I'm sitting here thinking, if you are talking about vHM Trials tanking, then I don't want to hear about your OP tank build for all that content I just said above that people say they don't need tanks for.

So, that is what the variance creates. All these scenarios where the feedback zos might get in here applies to ten different types of runs/builds/needs.

The other thing they need to do is use battle spirit more to separate support role power levels in pvp and pve and stop nerfing things all-together.

I started this game at launch with a nightblade tank, gave that up as it got nerfed over and over again, finally sticking to only my DK tank after the no stam regen while blocking changes and now every patch since morrowind has made tanking worse. Black Rose? Nerfed - too strong with constitution passive. Constitution passive? Nerfed next patch, but no, we aren't going to fix Black Rose, it can just be double nerfed now. Cost Reduction too strong in CP, so we take that away so it doesn't make heavy armor in pvp too strong - hits pve too. Damage buff passive from heavy armor - we are just going to remove it completely and not replace it with anything and hope no one notices. Now block cost reduction glyphs nerfed to where blocking isn't going to just be a little more expensive, but multiplied (even with block cost changes). (this is just what I remember from top of my head, I'm sure we could go back and dig up more that effects tanks, especially if we get class specific).

As it stands, I've lowered my block cost reduction to get used to how things will feel in the next patch and it's really crazy in certain situations (Axes in AA come to mind, Velidrith's flurry attack in Cradle of Shadows will completely drain your stam pool and then not leave you with enough time to heavy attack for any back half the time, the wobbles the mages shoot out in MaW each count as seperate hits as they wash over you, so if you are having to hold block b/c of a big mobs power attack, your stam is out by the time the wobbles have passed, etc.) It's not fun feeling like you've busted your butt to practice a role, get all the gear, learn the mechanics, and still feel like you are stressed out over basics. And let's not forget that losing the tank (in a real run, not easy dungeons or non vet stuff) means a group wipe much of the time and no recovery, so pressure is already up on tanks vs other roles (healer has a lot of pressure too though). But when I dps it almost feels like a vacation.

Feeling like my only job now is to manage my resources so I can stab and hold block is boring. And, as much as I love my DK tank, feeling like I have to play him because of how weak other classes are at tanking is boring sometimes as well. No wrobel, this doesn't mean nerf DK, it means make other classes have fun tanking, not make DK have less fun and be as useless as other classes.

Sure, there are niche builds that work for certain things with other classes, but nothing as versatile as DK for tanking role and covers so many of the tanking bases so easily. I love my warden, I have a really good hybridy-role build for those easier dungeons, and my sorc tank hangs ok. But there is a considerable difference I can feel jumping off the DK to any other class. Which is immediately going to make tanking less fun by not allowing me to enjoy it on other classes for some variety and making me feel pidgeon-holed.


TLDR: ZoS Needs to re-blance/tweak all dungeon content to be consistent and need tanks in some fashion. ZoS needs to stop nerfing everything about tanks, and frankly give them some buffs (especially to some classes over others and use battle spirit to help balance pvp tankiness). I've given tons of tanking feedback in the past that's usually been well received, so if zos really cares, that info is there too.