Is Maelstrom Arena Really Not For Everyone?

Ch4mpTW · October 2016

Damn, it's sad that a lot of the feedback here will probably go ignored by the developers. And it's crazy, because the developers should be aiming to please their customers. Not their alienate and ignore them, being as we (the customers) are the ones lacing their pockets. Especially when a lot of what is being said has been repeated so many times, but still is failing to sink in. Are you all seeing all this, ZOS? @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_MattFiror @Wrobel

anitajoneb17_ESO · October 2016

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

we (the customers) are the ones lacing their pockets.

"We" here are not "the customers". We are "the forumers". Entirely different. And we're not unanimous either.

Ch4mpTW · October 2016

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

we (the customers) are the ones lacing their pockets.

"We" here are not "the customers". We are "the forumers". Entirely different. And we're not unanimous either.

Hm? Did we or did we not purchase the developer's/producer's content? What is a consumer? One who consumes, yes?

ZOS = Producers
Gamers = Consumers

cjechurchill · December 2017

No. This place is not for everyone. Definitely not. If you are a healer or a tank, then you should just leave it. This place is for very high dps builds only. Highly experienced, high damage dps builds. On top of that you need to know exactly where each mob will spawn, what skill to use on them and what skills they use so you can counter/dodge. For every. single. mob. in. every. single. round. All of the videos you see of playing on youtube breezing through this place are players who have spent months and months and countless hours doing it. Most people just don't have the time to learn this place inside out like that.
If you are an experienced dps player and have a LOT of time and patience, then go for it. Otherwise, you are absolutely wasting your time here until they either nerf it, or at the very least make it so you can get the weapons from doing normal, but of a lower quality.

Milvan · December 2017

cjechurchill wrote: »

No. This place is not for everyone. Definitely not. If you are a healer or a tank, then you should just leave it. This place is for very high dps builds only. Highly experienced, high damage dps builds. On top of that you need to know exactly where each mob will spawn, what skill to use on them and what skills they use so you can counter/dodge. For every. single. mob. in. every. single. round. All of the videos you see of playing on youtube breezing through this place are players who have spent months and months and countless hours doing it. Most people just don't have the time to learn this place inside out like that.
If you are an experienced dps player and have a LOT of time and patience, then go for it. Otherwise, you are absolutely wasting your time here until they either nerf it, or at the very least make it so you can get the weapons from doing normal, but of a lower quality.

Taylor_MB · December 2017

cjechurchill wrote: »

No. This place is not for everyone. Definitely not. If you are a healer or a tank, then you should just leave it. This place is for very high dps builds only. H

I know this is a necro but...

My first vMA clear was on a BlazPlar wearing 5x Leeching, 5x Soulshine, 2x Grothdarr, 2x Endurance. Tanks can do it just fine.

Ch4mpTW · December 2017

Taylor_MB wrote: »

cjechurchill wrote: »

No. This place is not for everyone. Definitely not. If you are a healer or a tank, then you should just leave it. This place is for very high dps builds only. H

I know this is a necro but...

My first vMA clear was on a BlazPlar wearing 5x Leeching, 5x Soulshine, 2x Grothdarr, 2x Endurance. Tanks can do it just fine.

@Taylor_MB You gotta remember, that it was probably pre-Morrowind when you did that. Also, sets like Leeching could crit I’m assuming. A lot has changed then. Everything from sustain, proc sets being able to crit, to heavy armor builds being able to do tons of damage and utilize Shuffle. I met a StamDK tank pre-Morrowind when proc sets could crit which showed me hat he could Flawless VMA whilst setup for tanking in a PvP environment. Impenetrable for his gear traits and all. But, I strongly doubt he’d be able to pull that off currently. I don’t that very seriously.

Samadhi · December 2017

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

... I also noticed that on a lot of forum polls asking about people's involvement with the content, they often state how it's a waste of time. Or, how they want nothing to do with it in the slightest. Why is this?
...

Have not personally used any title since launch, so not going to pop on Stormproof or Flawless Conqueror now

but the content is not particularly good even despite its challenge

Playing something like Dark Souls, the combat is tight enough that it feels really satisfying overcoming enemies

in ESO the combat feels like it is lacking in weight and unresponsive,
VMA is not defined by tight control and timing, but in resource management and environmental hazards
it does not feel satisfying to perform well
it is 'challenging' content in terms of how its mechanics compare to the rest of the game, but it is ultimately unfulfilling
even when performing well, runs for gear drops feel more like a rng-based chore
a VMA weapon does not feel like a reward for a good run; a good run feels like a repetitive burden to be pushed through just for the sake of 'earning' a chance at gear
at least trait-swapping can mitigate some of the headache

Inarre · December 2017

cjechurchill wrote: »

No. This place is not for everyone. Definitely not. If you are a healer or a tank, then you should just leave it.

Finished on my healer templar.

Nussi28 · December 2017

Latency is a big issue in vma. With a bad connection its near impossible. Too much things out of the players control. Skills not firing, weapon swap working unreliable and on top high damage spikes.

GreenhaloX · December 2017

Maelstrom weapon is good or better for a standalone weapon; however, for me, as someone who likes or prefers a build with 2 monster pieces with 2x 5-pieces set with my DW, or a monster helm with 2x 5-pieces with my 2H build, a Maelstrom weapon doesn't fit. Unless, more attracted 5-pieces set are being dropped in Maelstrom (normal or vet), then running through those rounds over and over again just to farm for the right Maelstrom weapon(s) (that wouldn't even be slotted with any of my build,) isn't even practical. As far as the titles, I can care less for having any title showing, whatever it is. Well, it just me.

Cool, kudos, congrats and all that jazz for all those walking around with Stormproof and Flawless Conqueror title, though. With all your hard work, dedication and determination (or easily and peasily done with a Magsorc,) you've perfected the vMA run without dying and having the title showing gives you relevance or a sense of accomplishment. It's all good.. However, like in real life, no man (or woman) can stop a bullet, and such as with ESO, no one toon can stop a 1 or 2 shotter from certain world boss or vet dungeon boss.

Ch4mpTW · December 2017

GreenhaloX wrote: »

Maelstrom weapon is good or better for a standalone weapon; however, for me, as someone who likes or prefers a build with 2 monster pieces with 2x 5-pieces set with my DW, or a monster helm with 2x 5-pieces with my 2H build, a Maelstrom weapon doesn't fit. Unless, more attracted 5-pieces set are being dropped in Maelstrom (normal or vet), then running through those rounds over and over again just to farm for the right Maelstrom weapon(s) (that wouldn't even be slotted with any of my build,) isn't even practical. As far as the titles, I can care less for having any title showing, whatever it is. Well, it just me.

Cool, kudos, congrats and all that jazz for all those walking around with Stormproof and Flawless Conqueror title, though. With all your hard work, dedication and determination (or easily and peasily done with a Magsorc,) you've perfected the vMA run without dying and having the title showing gives you relevance or a sense of accomplishment. It's all good.. However, like in real life, no man (or woman) can stop a bullet, and such as with ESO, no one toon can stop a 1 or 2 shotter from certain world boss or vet dungeon boss.

You’ve made quite a few valid and fair points indeed. The only thing is, I can solo any WB or veteran dungeon (except for DLC dungeons, Blackheart Haven, and Direfrost Keep). I actually prefer to spend my time solo, as I do things at my own pace. Plus, I have no 1 to blame if things go sour.

Strider__Roshin · December 2017

cjechurchill wrote: »

No. This place is not for everyone. Definitely not. If you are a healer or a tank, then you should just leave it. This place is for very high dps builds only. Highly experienced, high damage dps builds. On top of that you need to know exactly where each mob will spawn, what skill to use on them and what skills they use so you can counter/dodge. For every. single. mob. in. every. single. round. All of the videos you see of playing on youtube breezing through this place are players who have spent months and months and countless hours doing it. Most people just don't have the time to learn this place inside out like that.
If you are an experienced dps player and have a LOT of time and patience, then go for it. Otherwise, you are absolutely wasting your time here until they either nerf it, or at the very least make it so you can get the weapons from doing normal, but of a lower quality.

This is incorrect. I always get aggro, and heal when I do vMA

GreenhaloX · December 2017

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

GreenhaloX wrote: »

Maelstrom weapon is good or better for a standalone weapon; however, for me, as someone who likes or prefers a build with 2 monster pieces with 2x 5-pieces set with my DW, or a monster helm with 2x 5-pieces with my 2H build, a Maelstrom weapon doesn't fit. Unless, more attracted 5-pieces set are being dropped in Maelstrom (normal or vet), then running through those rounds over and over again just to farm for the right Maelstrom weapon(s) (that wouldn't even be slotted with any of my build,) isn't even practical. As far as the titles, I can care less for having any title showing, whatever it is. Well, it just me.

Cool, kudos, congrats and all that jazz for all those walking around with Stormproof and Flawless Conqueror title, though. With all your hard work, dedication and determination (or easily and peasily done with a Magsorc,) you've perfected the vMA run without dying and having the title showing gives you relevance or a sense of accomplishment. It's all good.. However, like in real life, no man (or woman) can stop a bullet, and such as with ESO, no one toon can stop a 1 or 2 shotter from certain world boss or vet dungeon boss.

You’ve made quite a few valid and fair points indeed. The only thing is, I can solo any WB or veteran dungeon (except for DLC dungeons, Blackheart Haven, and Direfrost Keep). I actually prefer to spend my time solo, as I do things at my own pace. Plus, I have no 1 to blame if things go sour.

Of course.. no doubt. If you're experienced with the game enough and have high enough CP into those attributes, passives and trees, as well as have a good build and skillsets, most contents in PvE are quite soloable. I have soloed many, and I don't even slot any Maelstrom. Well, you can't really solo those pits and dungeons that need a second to interrupt, even on normal. However, it's not about how much of a badass or an ESO god or guru you are or can be in the game. For me, it's more of what are dropping from an event or content that would interest to partake in it. Yeah, I ran the hell of the pre-Morrowind trials, just like most folks, but after getting what I wanted (the VO set), there's really no reason for me to do the trials, on my own accord. Unless, a group or guildies really need peeps. There is really no drop pieces that have interested enough to do the post-Morrowind trials or vMA. Yeah, it's been many, many moons ago since I have done vMA.

Currently, I'm fine, good-to-go and happy with my toons' performance with the likes of Ravaging, Spriggans, Julianos, Sword Singers, Destruction Mastery, etc.., and I still solo those world boss pits, DLC or not, dungeons or whatnot on my own or with any peeps. I would definitely hit vMA again if it is dropping good 5-pieces set, other than just a standalone Maelstrom weapon. Well, perhaps, if somehow the Maelstrom weapons become part of a 3 or 5-pieces set. That would be something, though, and I would be willing to believe that will get more peeps into vMA. I sure would again..

Ch4mpTW · December 2017

GreenhaloX wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

GreenhaloX wrote: »

Maelstrom weapon is good or better for a standalone weapon; however, for me, as someone who likes or prefers a build with 2 monster pieces with 2x 5-pieces set with my DW, or a monster helm with 2x 5-pieces with my 2H build, a Maelstrom weapon doesn't fit. Unless, more attracted 5-pieces set are being dropped in Maelstrom (normal or vet), then running through those rounds over and over again just to farm for the right Maelstrom weapon(s) (that wouldn't even be slotted with any of my build,) isn't even practical. As far as the titles, I can care less for having any title showing, whatever it is. Well, it just me.

Cool, kudos, congrats and all that jazz for all those walking around with Stormproof and Flawless Conqueror title, though. With all your hard work, dedication and determination (or easily and peasily done with a Magsorc,) you've perfected the vMA run without dying and having the title showing gives you relevance or a sense of accomplishment. It's all good.. However, like in real life, no man (or woman) can stop a bullet, and such as with ESO, no one toon can stop a 1 or 2 shotter from certain world boss or vet dungeon boss.

You’ve made quite a few valid and fair points indeed. The only thing is, I can solo any WB or veteran dungeon (except for DLC dungeons, Blackheart Haven, and Direfrost Keep). I actually prefer to spend my time solo, as I do things at my own pace. Plus, I have no 1 to blame if things go sour.

Of course.. no doubt. If you're experienced with the game enough and have high enough CP into those attributes, passives and trees, as well as have a good build and skillsets, most contents in PvE are quite soloable. I have soloed many, and I don't even slot any Maelstrom. Well, you can't really solo those pits and dungeons that need a second to interrupt, even on normal. However, it's not about how much of a badass or an ESO god or guru you are or can be in the game. For me, it's more of what are dropping from an event or content that would interest to partake in it. Yeah, I ran the hell of the pre-Morrowind trials, just like most folks, but after getting what I wanted (the VO set), there's really no reason for me to do the trials, on my own accord. Unless, a group or guildies really need peeps. There is really no drop pieces that have interested enough to do the post-Morrowind trials or vMA. Yeah, it's been many, many moons ago since I have done vMA.

Currently, I'm fine, good-to-go and happy with my toons' performance with the likes of Ravaging, Spriggans, Julianos, Sword Singers, Destruction Mastery, etc.., and I still solo those world boss pits, DLC or not, dungeons or whatnot on my own or with any peeps. I would definitely hit vMA again if it is dropping good 5-pieces set, other than just a standalone Maelstrom weapon. Well, perhaps, if somehow the Maelstrom weapons become part of a 3 or 5-pieces set. That would be something, though, and I would be willing to believe that will get more peeps into vMA. I sure would again..

Agreed. I personally haven’t touched VMA since early in the first week of the double drops via the Orsinium Event. The reason being because of the horrible lag and bugs I was experiencing. Even though I have all of the Maelstrom Weapons I could possibly want, I still would do VMA as a means of practice and testing new builds out. VMA keeps me on my toes, and makes an excellent form of training (in my opinion). However, when the instance is bug-filled and incredibly laggy? It’s easily the most frustrating form of content ESO has to offer. And honestly, I want no parts to it.

So while I would like to have Flawless Conqueror on my 2 Warden characters, I have reached a point where I’ve in a sense said f*** VMA. And I no longer indulge in it. Even for practicing and testing. I’d rather do so in a veteran dungeon solo, or through the use of a target skeleton. VMA infuriates me nowadays, and is something that I would tell others to avoid for the most part. The cons outweigh the pros dramatically, and it honestly isn’t worth the time sink in my opinion.

Jarryzzt · December 2017

1. Casuals or new players will likely take a longer period of time to get to endgame content. Especially if they are grinding more than one character.

2. Players who did not get the DLC or are not ESO+ subs are automatically excluded.

3. Even if #1 and #2 do not apply, there is a lot of content in the game to distract one from doing the arena. Even in the endgame.

4. As someone had mentioned, not all people wear the title. For example, for RP/immersion reasons (my "assassin-lawful-evil" character, for example, shall always be "The Silencer" irrespective of other titles available).

In other words, the OP does not possess enough evidence to more than advance their hypothesis (not many people have completed vMA). Only ZOS truly knows how many have done the content. As such, asking why going off a mere hypothesis (rather than firm evidence) is...not productive?

Ragnarock41 · December 2017

since the nerf my nirn vMA maul is kind of useless.
I can get a random maul for 4th piece bonus,
Or I can get an asylum 2h for mad ult gains..

and asylum weapons are so easy to farm, this made people stop farming vMA.

I got my first vMA weapon, a nirn maul, when I was only cp 270, as a stamina Dk.
Its gotten so easy that people do naked vMA runs. I don't think It can get any easier than this.

tinythinker · December 2017

It isn't for everyone, and I'm one of those who can't do it/don't feel inspire to beat it, and that's fine.

Go back to spring of 2014 and you will see posts from me on these forums saying a variety of content is essential for a game like this, and not all content will be suitable for everyone. There's content for lots of different interests, playstyles, and skill levels, and honestly if they want to add even more variety that's fine with me. Want a trinket/toggle to make overland content harder? I support you. Want more appearance options and guild functionality for better RP? I support you. Want a new four-player arena that is like vMA on steroids to an order of magnitude? I support you. But I probably won't be using most of that personally.

UnversedNumber3 · December 2017

Anyone can beat maelstrom if you put the time into it. People have beat it with no CP or using only a broom and a bucket.

KingJ · December 2017

If you have money VMA can be for everyone

bhagwad · December 2017

Armitas wrote: »

I hate VMA, no exaggeration, I hate it with a passion and it makes me hate the game as a whole. I rage quit the game for 3 months of over my first 8hrs of VMA at release. It is a constant struggle for me every run not to break something or delete this game. When I open the chest and get another stupid powered bow I am infuriated because I just wasted an hour of my life cussing through this stupidly broken dungeon that I absolutely hate.

It's not a hard dungeon, I haven't got flawless conqueror but I have killed each arena without dying, just not all at the same time. Once you learn it it's not hard at all, but it will always be frustrating because game performance sucks, it's chock full of RNG, Red circles are inaccurate, and the enemies animation cancel.

There was a poll awhile back. 1/3 of the player base has made it to the leaderboards, half the respondents have completed it and the other half of the community hasn't done it. I suspect in reality that more than half have not done it. That is bad. Your content is broken and you need to do something about it. I made some suggestions here on how to fix it without nerfing it. VMA is awful, it's a terrible dungeon, it's not a success and it's one of the primary gateways to endgame that most have to pass through.

On PS4, only 0.6% of the player base has completed vMA. You're saying it's 50%? Where are you getting your statistics from?

Smmokkee · December 2017

Less of a reason to run it now more than ever.

Cage_Lizardman · December 2017

bhagwad wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

I hate VMA, no exaggeration, I hate it with a passion and it makes me hate the game as a whole. I rage quit the game for 3 months of over my first 8hrs of VMA at release. It is a constant struggle for me every run not to break something or delete this game. When I open the chest and get another stupid powered bow I am infuriated because I just wasted an hour of my life cussing through this stupidly broken dungeon that I absolutely hate.

It's not a hard dungeon, I haven't got flawless conqueror but I have killed each arena without dying, just not all at the same time. Once you learn it it's not hard at all, but it will always be frustrating because game performance sucks, it's chock full of RNG, Red circles are inaccurate, and the enemies animation cancel.

There was a poll awhile back. 1/3 of the player base has made it to the leaderboards, half the respondents have completed it and the other half of the community hasn't done it. I suspect in reality that more than half have not done it. That is bad. Your content is broken and you need to do something about it. I made some suggestions here on how to fix it without nerfing it. VMA is awful, it's a terrible dungeon, it's not a success and it's one of the primary gateways to endgame that most have to pass through.

On PS4, only 0.6% of the player base has completed vMA. You're saying it's 50%? Where are you getting your statistics from?

But what % of the entire playerbase is even cp160? While I would never call vMA easy, I wouldn't be terribly surprised if 30% of max cp players have done it, the kind of people that are also more likely to answer forum polls here. 50% sounds a bit high though.

ccfeeling · December 2017

Zos should develop more and more different type vma via coming dlc , you get money and ppl could show off win win

Bobby_V_Rockit · December 2017

ccfeeling wrote: »

Zos should develop more and more different type vma via coming dlc , you get money and ppl could show off win win

Get more money if more people can complete. Why sell something to 5 people when you sell to 500?

Ch4mpTW · December 2017

Smmokkee wrote: »

Less of a reason to run it now more than ever.

Agreed. Unless if you’re a stamina-based toon, you can pretty much skate by without having to endure VMA nowadays. And even, you’re looking for 1 thing. The Maelstrom’s Bow to be specific. However, I have heard that even then a Maelstrom’s Bow isn’t mandatory for stamina builds (although, I personally wouldn’t go about not using 1). Magicka builds truly don’t need Maelstrom destruction staffs, although they are quite beneficial for off-balance (if utilizing The Maelstrom’s Lightning Staff). I particularly tend to use a Maelstrom destruction staff on all of my magicka toons, as I refuse to let them go to waste. I’ve spent far too many hours in that dreaded place for me to just let said items rot away like Master weapons. N’ah. Screw that.

monktoasty · December 2017

The rng makes it not even worth it. I've tried it but it just sucks. Then realize..I probably won't get the weapon I need and I'll get mad.

They need to tone it down. I d9nt care if people think it should stay or be harder..it SUCKS that it's only for those who have so much spare time to master it's annoying mechanics.

I prefer RPG where you build your character to get str0ng to handle things NOT annoy9ng twitch gameplay which frankly a lot of mmos are moving to..avoid a million red circles..don't stand in one spot for more than half a second or get 1 shosted. I mean it's LAME

zaria · December 2017

Cage_Lizardman wrote: »

bhagwad wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

I hate VMA, no exaggeration, I hate it with a passion and it makes me hate the game as a whole. I rage quit the game for 3 months of over my first 8hrs of VMA at release. It is a constant struggle for me every run not to break something or delete this game. When I open the chest and get another stupid powered bow I am infuriated because I just wasted an hour of my life cussing through this stupidly broken dungeon that I absolutely hate.

It's not a hard dungeon, I haven't got flawless conqueror but I have killed each arena without dying, just not all at the same time. Once you learn it it's not hard at all, but it will always be frustrating because game performance sucks, it's chock full of RNG, Red circles are inaccurate, and the enemies animation cancel.

There was a poll awhile back. 1/3 of the player base has made it to the leaderboards, half the respondents have completed it and the other half of the community hasn't done it. I suspect in reality that more than half have not done it. That is bad. Your content is broken and you need to do something about it. I made some suggestions here on how to fix it without nerfing it. VMA is awful, it's a terrible dungeon, it's not a success and it's one of the primary gateways to endgame that most have to pass through.

On PS4, only 0.6% of the player base has completed vMA. You're saying it's 50%? Where are you getting your statistics from?

But what % of the entire playerbase is even cp160? While I would never call vMA easy, I wouldn't be terribly surprised if 30% of max cp players have done it, the kind of people that are also more likely to answer forum polls here. 50% sounds a bit high though.

Using the 10 million / 3 players as base, it should give 20K players.

bitels · December 2017

monktoasty wrote: »

They need to tone it down. I d9nt care if people think it should stay or be harder..it SUCKS that it's only for those who have so much spare time to master it's annoying mechanics.

TBH it dont take that much time since we can save our progress on veteran now. Thanks God times when you were stuck in vMA for 12 hours, and you cannot quit becouse you will loose your progress are gone

You can do one stage per day, or even one per week. You will still make progress, and after some time you will just become better and better at beating vMA. Its all about practise and skill

monktoasty wrote: »

I prefer RPG where you build your character to get str0ng to handle things NOT annoy9ng twitch gameplay which frankly a lot of mmos are moving to..avoid a million red circles..don't stand in one spot for more than half a second or get 1 shosted. I mean it's LAME

Have to disagree here. You want game when you just making your character stronger, i prefer game when you become better player. Just getting best gear and then face rolling thru everything without any kind of skill is what I would describe as "lame"