Is Maelstrom Arena Really Not For Everyone?

Doctordarkspawn · October 2016

Mojmir wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

I''ve seen the pattented 'work toward' it excuse people love to bring into threads like this again.

I'll say it again, then.

Content that is needlessly difficult in a way that isn't fun, will not make me play it over and over to get better at it. I use crafted sets. Most of the Meta is crafted sets with the notable exeption being healers. If content is not fun to do, I will not do it because I dont need to do it. End of story. VMA is all these things, and is these things because they decided, when in doubt with design, to go back to trial design tendancies.

Nobody asked for Maelstrom. The people who would of liked Maelstrom hated how it was done. It needs. Changed. And denying that fact is denying change for the sake of it.

Content does not have to be for everyone, but if you dont have a target audience, it isn't worth making.

you'd be surprised at how many things get implemented in this game because certain players have an "in" with developers.

No, I really wouldn't.

And it'd explain why the design of this game is so broken.

captainwolfos · October 2016

It's not for me. Yet.

I'm probably going to give it a try if and when I ever get better hardware. As it is, it usually craps out on me when I reach the floating ice blocks level (don't remember which number that is), to the point I'm utterly unable to move in time to interrupt the trolls bashing the blocks down to the lag.

This may be a server issue, but it's more likely my relatively ancient hardware.

So yeah, when I get a better setup, I'll probably give it another shot.

Brrrofski · October 2016

Some people like me only SP it on one toon. Well, I've done it on my magica NB and stam Sorc but only do it now on my stam Sorc.

So the other 10 of my toons don't even have the title to wear. Nor have I had any real good drops (except 2h) so I don't use the weapons currently. Could be a lot of people like it.

tom5330 · October 2016

i've never done maelstrom arena, but my new dk build has got me wanting to do it.

Kram8ion · October 2016

Nope probably not for me, I'm not really fussed about a title and I don't think the weapons would be game changing
I have done a couple of group dungeons and it was ok because your in group and I feel purposeful
But single player I'd probably rage quit.

notimetocare · October 2016

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

I've been noticing that there really are far and few people with Stormproof and Flawless Conqueror titles, as well as without Maelstrom weapons. The content has been out for months now, and even had a few tweaks and a 100% drop-rate added for a Maelstrom weapon to be in the last chest. And yet... There are still few people with Maelstrom clears. Let alone people who even want to be bothered with it. In fact, I know plenty of people on PS4-NA who have their buddies complete it or in a sense pay others to clear it for them. I've even been offered to do clears for people and get paid, but refused. I also noticed that on a lot of forum polls asking about people's involvement with the content, they often state how it's a waste of time. Or, how they want nothing to do with it in the slightest. Why is this?

And ZOS, are you aware of the incredibly low percentage of players with VMA clears? Let alone those who want to partake in attempting it, and or completing it? If so, that should tell you something about the content. Whether it be: Difficulty, mechanics, loot tables, and overall RNG.

In short, most people suck too much for challenging content. Harsh? Maybe, but it is true.

Tonnopesce · October 2016

I don't have time to learn the maelstrom, now i can go flawless up to the Ice arena but then i hit a wall, personally i don't want to live in there only to get a weapon.
Yes i want to do it but is not a must have for me and i spend in there maybe 20 minutes a week.

Mojmir · October 2016

I've done it a handful of times,never got what I wanted.wasted times indeed.

Bobby_V_Rockit · October 2016

I'n waiting for next update tonraise my cp up again lol. Just finished making all my gear gold, and in 2 weeks we're all 30 points stronger so just wait it out

schroed360 · October 2016

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

I''ve seen the pattented 'work toward' it excuse people love to bring into threads like this again.

I'll say it again, then.

Content that is needlessly difficult in a way that isn't fun, will not make me play it over and over to get better at it. I use crafted sets. Most of the Meta is crafted sets with the notable exeption being healers. If content is not fun to do, I will not do it because I dont need to do it. End of story. VMA is all these things, and is these things because they decided, when in doubt with design, to go back to trial design tendancies.

Nobody asked for Maelstrom. The people who would of liked Maelstrom hated how it was done. It needs. Changed. And denying that fact is denying change for the sake of it.

Content does not have to be for everyone, but if you dont have a target audience, it isn't worth making.

Dude you are wrong there is an audiene for that content. I love that content because i usually play in oddly hour. So other guildy may not be availlable. I if you are stuck alone vma is a challenge that can be nice.
For me getting stormproof is a benchmark for newly created character. And flawless is something that gave me a great feeling of accomplishment( only one character so far so 7 more to be done!).

Of course maybe there is not so much poeple liking it but still there is an audience.
I actually think that that audience would be somewhat important if the RNG reward was not such &$%?!!!

SublimeSparo · October 2016

So out of boredom i tried vMA in first person...
5 death 506k score first attempt lol, nirnhoned bow for my troubles

think i could shave 5mins or so off time (stopped for vapes) and die a couple of times less aoes are hard to see in first person.

https://youtu.be/z7xlKxImts8

Publius_Scipio · October 2016

Maelstrom Arena definitely isn't stam NB friendly.

SublimeSparo · October 2016

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Maelstrom Arena definitely isn't stam NB friendly.

It's not too bad, easier on stamblade than stamdk/ templar and magdk for me anyway. You're pretty squishy but you have so much burst you can pretty much 1shot everything

darthsithis · October 2016

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Chriagon wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

It's so incredibly easy nowadays compared to launch one year ago.

Sorry my ignorance, but when did they make vMA easier?

I can now tell you where everything spawns...whilst working, cooking dinner and working on my degree all at once. It's mundane, predictable and just repetition. Nothing changes at all. That's what makes it easier.

Just by listening to the audio I could tell you everything that's going on with my eyes shut. It's what vma does to you. It ruins your life.

Haha i am the same way! My gf was on the last boss, and was playing with my phone. But I was like 'kill it by the portal. Roll dodge. Get behind wall. Roll dodge. Roll dodge again. Wall.' Lol.

It's mechanics and dedication- I love a challenge more than anything. I must admit I enjoy a four man dungeon the best, but keeping my rotation on point and striving for that flawless is fun as heck for me!

I wish there was some more content like this in the game (obviously for groups). I crave the challenge, and the ensuing elation that comes with victory- knowing that the one cp 130 in the group just had his game upped makes me happy too.

More insanely hard four person dungeons! Idk why dragonstar doesn't seem fun, but wgt is a blast. Cool mechanics that require communication and adapting to the groups needs and skill levels is what gets me going.

maelstrom is fun to try out new sets and rotations! Just got a decent score with a clanfear, 3pc aether, 5 piece elegance, 2pc kena, 2x torugs, and a vicious death staff cuz rng fail.

darthsithis · October 2016

olsborg wrote: »

vMA is all about what I dont like about pve:

Timed pressure to perform X action so a guaranteed death wont happen. Nothing to enjoy about it. I can enjoy certain aspects of pve, but im a pvper at heart in eso. Something about having that stress lingering above your head, "remember to do X at Y so you dont get instadead" feels like being at work instead of enjoying an hour or two at gaming.

I agree tho, good mechanics are fun and make you want to replay them! Bad mechanics are like "argonian mender is raising a shie-AFFLICTED WITH VOLATILE POISON- ::streak away to green circle:: ::die after cleansing::

[damage summary 134,000k scream]

••you are fighting enemies that l-cancel and are•• •••resistant to lag, try using rune prison to even••• ••••••the odds. Health potions restore health•••••••

~press A revive here (use a grand soul gem)~

PRESSES A

LOOKS IN MENU.

::AFFLICTED WITH VOLATILE POISON::

Chest of champions
-) 51 gold
-) grand soul gem
-) heavy armour robust maul of elemental succession prosperous bind on eye contact "reduces cool down time of potions by -3 seconds"

But yeah...the fun dungeons are The highlight of the game for me! Pve can be immensely rewarding in so many ways I feel.

AlnilamE · October 2016

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

I''ve seen the pattented 'work toward' it excuse people love to bring into threads like this again.

I'll say it again, then.

Content that is needlessly difficult in a way that isn't fun, will not make me play it over and over to get better at it. I use crafted sets. Most of the Meta is crafted sets with the notable exeption being healers. If content is not fun to do, I will not do it because I dont need to do it. End of story. VMA is all these things, and is these things because they decided, when in doubt with design, to go back to trial design tendancies.

Nobody asked for Maelstrom. The people who would of liked Maelstrom hated how it was done. It needs. Changed. And denying that fact is denying change for the sake of it.

Content does not have to be for everyone, but if you dont have a target audience, it isn't worth making.

There were many players who asked for soloable difficult content. Those were players that were working on soloing group dungeons for lack of something challenging to do.

I've not completed vMA yet, and I've only done normal a couple of times, though I don't dislike it. But I'm perfectly fine with it being there for people who feel the need to farm it.

And if I ever complete it, I will not wear the title. Master Angler is the only title worthy of being worn.

Schemering · October 2016

I know lots of people having done a vet maelstrom clear (most people in my flist have and about half of my guildies in social guilds; im not in a progression guild atm) and also quite a few who could do it but dont want to invest the time. Some people are somewhere halfway doing it arena by arena.

It could be that about half of the population on EU could do it and an big minority has cleared it already. There are some people that have so little knowledge/practice that atm they wont be able to clear it but everyone can learn, some fast and for some it will take years

Frenkthevile · October 2016

Qyrk wrote: »

Is Maelstrom Arena Really Not For Everyone?

If you want to be a realist, the answer is Yes

Epona222 · October 2016

My problem with Maelstrom arena, is that mostly I cannot be arsed to learn the mechanics of each round. I have better things to do with my life.

Kirameku · October 2016

The main difficulty in vma is not clearing it. It's getting weapons you want from it =\

Armitas · October 2016

I hate VMA, no exaggeration, I hate it with a passion and it makes me hate the game as a whole. I rage quit the game for 3 months of over my first 8hrs of VMA at release. It is a constant struggle for me every run not to break something or delete this game. When I open the chest and get another stupid powered bow I am infuriated because I just wasted an hour of my life cussing through this stupidly broken dungeon that I absolutely hate.

It's not a hard dungeon, I haven't got flawless conqueror but I have killed each arena without dying, just not all at the same time. Once you learn it it's not hard at all, but it will always be frustrating because game performance sucks, it's chock full of RNG, Red circles are inaccurate, and the enemies animation cancel.

There was a poll awhile back. 1/3 of the player base has made it to the leaderboards, half the respondents have completed it and the other half of the community hasn't done it. I suspect in reality that more than half have not done it. That is bad. Your content is broken and you need to do something about it. I made some suggestions here on how to fix it without nerfing it. VMA is awful, it's a terrible dungeon, it's not a success and it's one of the primary gateways to endgame that most have to pass through.

Bam_Bam · October 2016

Wollust wrote: »

I don't understand how people can still complain about maelstrom. It's so incredibly easy nowadays compared to launch one year ago.

Maybe if you are a PvE-er. People who primarily PvP might find it difficult and tedious. I certainly do.

gbaker42 · October 2016

I don't think vet maelstrom is for everyone. I have not completed the vet challenge and might never complete it. I have a difficult time remembering spawn locations etc. That is just how my brain works. Lucky for me I can make a good build without those weapons. I think its very important however that ZOS doesn't make every part of the game so easy that people get bored and leave. Say no to nerfs

kylewwefan · October 2016

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

I've been noticing that there really are far and few people with Stormproof and Flawless Conqueror titles, as well as without Maelstrom weapons. The content has been out for months now, and even had a few tweaks and a 100% drop-rate added for a Maelstrom weapon to be in the last chest. And yet... There are still few people with Maelstrom clears. Let alone people who even want to be bothered with it. In fact, I know plenty of people on PS4-NA who have their buddies complete it or in a sense pay others to clear it for them. I've even been offered to do clears for people and get paid, but refused. I also noticed that on a lot of forum polls asking about people's involvement with the content, they often state how it's a waste of time. Or, how they want nothing to do with it in the slightest. Why is this?

And ZOS, are you aware of the incredibly low percentage of players with VMA clears? Let alone those who want to partake in attempting it, and or completing it? If so, that should tell you something about the content. Whether it be: Difficulty, mechanics, loot tables, and overall RNG.

Yes. Sadly, there are many people having others do it for them, that I know of and admit to it. Even to the point of complaining these guys are cheesing their score not to beat their own. More power to em, I'm not giving out my account info to anyone ToS or whatever.

I think there is also a big divide between the PC player base and console. Like seriously way far fewer players have beat this on console. The difficulty increase from normal is ridiculous.

Schemering · October 2016

Baranthus wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

I don't understand how people can still complain about maelstrom. It's so incredibly easy nowadays compared to launch one year ago.

Maybe if you are a PvE-er. People who primarily PvP might find it difficult and tedious. I certainly do.

id say pvp players might have an advantage in maelstrom as it requires dodging interrupting positioning and some other things that pvp players have to be good at. Just having maxed dps as glass canon pve player isnt enough to stay alive in maelstrom

Asardes · October 2016

I've actually seen plenty of people with Stormproof in dungeons and even Cyrodiil. Flawless Conqueror is not that rare either. I've even seen the latter on people with as low as CP350. Like every content in this game the mechanics in VMA are learnable and beatable with enough practice. But people either:
- beat it a number of times but prefer to wear other titles that suit them better, for example the AR (colonel, overlord etc.)
- didn't buy Orsinium DLC in the first place (still haven't bought it yet, but I will run it once I do)
- heard about the bad RNG coupled with steep learning curve and decided not to run it specifically for that reason
- they run other effective builds that don't involve Maelstrom weapons - plenty of dropped stamina sets that are as or even more effective, especially in PvP
- they don't like solo content
etc.

Wollust · October 2016

Baranthus wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

I don't understand how people can still complain about maelstrom. It's so incredibly easy nowadays compared to launch one year ago.

Maybe if you are a PvE-er. People who primarily PvP might find it difficult and tedious. I certainly do.

I spend much more time PvPing than PvEing though. That has nothing to do with it. You just need to practice to finish it. Goes for everyone.

DeadlyRecluse · October 2016

vMA is not for everyone, but it is for anyone. I am not a PvE monster, but I spent about 15 hours (spread out over about 2 weeks) really learning everything I could. Now it isn't too bad.

The learning curve is honestly the fun part. vMA is one of the few places where a slight tweak to your approach can immediately yield results in terms of getting just a little further (figuring out the optimal order to kill adds, for instance, or when to sigil and when to save them).

As someone else mentioned, after you get it, that's it. It never changes--thought the RNGscrew on some rounds will still get ya. After you learn it though, you can tell the difference between one of your mistakes and a RNG death, and that makes it less frustrating. Or at least differently frustrating.

There should be SOME content in the game that requires intense effort. Right now, that's pretty much just vDSA, vMA, and vMoL.

Bobby_V_Rockit · October 2016

I simply cannot do it. I have all legendary gear (5x TBS, 2x velidreth, 3x agility (epic), 2x Leki DW) all legendary enchants on jewellery (wd), weapons (wd, onslaught) and armour (stam), all skills maxed and 556cp.

I honestlty just lack the skill to do it, after 12 months of playing almost daily. I dont use pots other than for health and cant get used to it. There will be no maelstrom weapons for little Rob

Wollust · October 2016

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

I simply cannot do it. I have all legendary gear (5x TBS, 2x velidreth, 3x agility (epic), 2x Leki DW) all legendary enchants on jewellery (wd), weapons (wd, onslaught) and armour (stam), all skills maxed and 556cp.

I honestlty just lack the skill to do it, after 12 months of playing almost daily. I dont use pots other than for health and cant get used to it. There will be no maelstrom weapons for little Rob

Stamina is only really good at vMSA as long as you have Vicious Ophidian. Without it it becomes so much harder you can't even imagine the difference. I'd recommend getting VO first before you do it on a stam character. You'll hit much harder and you'll have much more sustain and mobility.