Is Maelstrom Arena Really Not For Everyone?

Chakzhu

Integral1900 wrote: »

Oh it's definitely not for everyone, I've only completed it once on normal but by the time I did my normally laid back if somewhat anxiety prone demeanour had been transformed into a ball of rage and frustration, so much so that I went storming outside and kicked a 10 kilo garden gnome through a hedge. Came to the conclusion that it's most likely not for me

In case you had any guilt, Gnomes, especially of the garden variety, deserve it. Every time.

Asardes

Kick Garden Gnome ult is too OP
#NerfKickGardenGnomeNow #BalanceTheGame

Enemy-of-Coldharbour

I would love to do vMA but the terrible RNG keeps me away. I refuse to waste my time on something that does not give a proper reward. Currently, vMA is for masochists.

Bobby_V_Rockit

Sallington wrote: »

It's not for everyone, and that's a good thing. Not everything in the game needs to be for everyone playing it.

It should be for the majority though. But this is just another case of the loud minority quieting and disrupting the quiet majority

jrgray93

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

It's not for everyone, and that's a good thing. Not everything in the game needs to be for everyone playing it.

It should be for the majority though. But this is just another case of the loud minority quieting and disrupting the quiet majority

From my experiences and reading these forums, most of the people who can complete VMA still don't like it.

Dulkur

Vangy wrote: »

The only thing i dislike about vMA is that its only for one style of play. As much DPS as you can put out while self healing style of play.....

Why cant there be interesting mechanics that allow SnB DPS builds to compete? Or a semi-healer build or some kind of sustain build.

Like the new hists dungeons. Plenty of one shots if u fail mechanics but no DPS race. You could burn boss with huge DPS groups or u could even clear it with average DPS while following mechanics.

Aside from the first boss, who you need to kill adds on or he heals, and summons more adds as the fight goes on, I am not sure there is a dps race on any boss, if anything the slower you kill them the safer you are, bosses 3 and 5 I know the faster you kill the more likely you are to get overwhelmed with adds, boss of 2 shields at a certain % the way I do it, is get them to the edge where they are going to shield and wait for a long animation attack to try dps. But 1 and 8 are the only bosses that are harder if you cant dps them fast, I run quite a bit of utility abilities, and average 10k dps, 16k tops on bosses with adds. I can run a heavy set of a dps crafted on my tank and hit high enough dps numbers to clear, the only problem is it isn't worth running because you cant make weekly leader boards.

I have at least 2 versions of every class, the biggest difference I have noticed, is my Vampire Breton running the exact same gear as other characters takes less flame damage and any magic damage than the rest of my characters who are other races,
that one racial is the biggest change in margin of error for the fights that I have noticed.

Sigtric

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

And ZOS, are you aware of the incredibly low percentage of players with VMA clears? Let alone those who want to partake in attempting it, and or completing it? If so, that should tell you something about the content. Whether it be: Difficulty, mechanics, loot tables, and overall RNG.

Something tells me they have more actual data about this than you think you know.

Shadesofkin

Normal is for everyone.

Veteran is for players with the skill.

Shadesofkin

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

It's not for everyone, and that's a good thing. Not everything in the game needs to be for everyone playing it.

It should be for the majority though. But this is just another case of the loud minority quieting and disrupting the quiet majority

You have Normal.

Lylith

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Where did anyone ever mention it was for "everyone" ?
In my opinion it's a part of the content dedicated to highly skilled players. I'm not one of them, but that's OK though.
I also believe that, with the ongoing "power creep", more and more people will be bale to clear it (it won't be "nerfed" but it will automatically get easier). So yeah someday it's going to be "for everyone".

More problematic is the fact that, among those who have seriously tried and/or completed it, extremely few declare it to be fun or well designed. Other content like VDSA back in the days, or vMOL, which are extremely hard, were also considered as extremely fun. Not VMA...

'estremely few..' ?

i've not heard a single one. must've missed it. <shrug>

HouLiGaN

Took me around a week + a few extra days to complete my first Vmsa, even got up to last stage last boss and raged quite after spending a hole day at that place even Deleting the quest! Then I was thinking VMsa Is NOT for me and I have just to deal with it.
The next day when i was in game with friend`s etc playing, I realized that I HAD to complete Vmsa to keep up with my friend`s progress also. So i got back in there and did it all in much shorter time and completed it. these days it takes me around an hour +-.
Still havn`t got an Inferno Staff

So Yeah, VMSA is NOT for everyone, YOU choose if it`s for you !

ewhite106b16_ESO

Maelstrom arena could have been a really cool like the Imperial City Arena quests from Oblivion. This is what I expected when I went in - I wanted a good fight vs cool npcs/bosses. What I got was one annoying puzzle after another full of gimmicky MMO raid style mechanics - essentially it felt like a single player raid/trial. IMO it's another example of where the game fails by trying to be too much like an MMO and not enough like other Elder Scrolls games. It's even more aggravating that it's the only source of Maelstrom weapons in the game. I wasn't dying to the fights/monsters, I was dying to puzzle mechanics.

I think fun, repeatable solo content with worthwhile rewards is a great thing for the game. Even the RNG involved with Maelstrom Arena drops doesn't bother me.....it's the fact the content itself flat out isn't fun. I don't think the content needs a nerf, IMO it needs to be re-designed using the Oblivion game Imperial Arena as a template. Have fights come up in a random order, put as many different ones in as possible and put the focus on the fighting not the weird "mechanics".

Edit: Fighting the monsters themselves was fun, I also liked the lore/setup around the arena - it's just the environmental mechanics that got really really frustrating. There should IMO be another more combat oriented path to get Maelstrom weapons, like I mentioned above. I don't think the devs that designed this area were bad designers at all - more that their focus was in the wrong place in terms of content style.

Ch4mpTW

ewhite106b16_ESO wrote: »

Maelstrom arena could have been a really cool like the Imperial City Arena quests from Oblivion. This is what I expected when I went in - I wanted a good fight vs cool npcs/bosses. What I got was one annoying puzzle after another full of gimmicky MMO raid style mechanics - essentially it felt like a single player raid/trial. IMO it's another example of where the game fails by trying to be too much like an MMO and not enough like other Elder Scrolls games. It's even more aggravating that it's the only source of Maelstrom weapons in the game. I wasn't dying to the fights/monsters, I was dying to puzzle mechanics.

I think fun, repeatable solo content with worthwhile rewards is a great thing for the game. Even the RNG involved with Maelstrom Arena drops doesn't bother me.....it's the fact the content itself flat out isn't fun. I don't think the content needs a nerf, IMO it needs to be re-designed using the Oblivion game Imperial Arena as a template. Have fights come up in a random order, put as many different ones in as possible and put the focus on the fighting not the weird "mechanics".

Edit: Fighting the monsters themselves was fun, I also liked the lore/setup around the arena - it's just the environmental mechanics that got really really frustrating. There should IMO be another more combat oriented path to get Maelstrom weapons, like I mentioned above. I don't think the devs that designed this area were bad designers at all - more that their focus was in the wrong place in terms of content style.

Very well said, and agreed.

Lightninvash

I have stepped into maelstrom one time walked out like 20mins after. Since I don't have much time right now to play id rather spend it grinding so I can get more traits for my researching or something. Id prefer that over spending an hour or 2 in maelstrom for no reward and all the frustration lol

Pallio

Few facts to consider :

Best weapons in the game.
Most challenging PvE solo content.
Favorers ranged dps to melee range.

I think the biggest challenge, beyond learning the mechanics, is being dps/healer/tank all at the same time. If you group mostly in trails/pledges it is a totally different play style..

CultOfMMO

ewhite106b16_ESO wrote: »

Maelstrom arena could have been a really cool like the Imperial City Arena quests from Oblivion. This is what I expected when I went in - I wanted a good fight vs cool npcs/bosses. What I got was one annoying puzzle after another full of gimmicky MMO raid style mechanics - essentially it felt like a single player raid/trial. IMO it's another example of where the game fails by trying to be too much like an MMO and not enough like other Elder Scrolls games. It's even more aggravating that it's the only source of Maelstrom weapons in the game. I wasn't dying to the fights/monsters, I was dying to puzzle mechanics.

I think fun, repeatable solo content with worthwhile rewards is a great thing for the game. Even the RNG involved with Maelstrom Arena drops doesn't bother me.....it's the fact the content itself flat out isn't fun. I don't think the content needs a nerf, IMO it needs to be re-designed using the Oblivion game Imperial Arena as a template. Have fights come up in a random order, put as many different ones in as possible and put the focus on the fighting not the weird "mechanics".

Edit: Fighting the monsters themselves was fun, I also liked the lore/setup around the arena - it's just the environmental mechanics that got really really frustrating. There should IMO be another more combat oriented path to get Maelstrom weapons, like I mentioned above. I don't think the devs that designed this area were bad designers at all - more that their focus was in the wrong place in terms of content style.

interesting perspective, cant say i agree though. Most likely because I'm not familiar with Oblivion, only played skyrim.

Also, the challenge is the combination of hard hitting mobs and unique environmental mechanics, it all boils down to pattern recognition, razor focus, and lightening fast reactions. IMO, based on what you're describing, if you remove all the environmental mechanics in vMA and make the mobs stronger, that will be downright boring and will get old REAL fast.

Could be way wrong here, but I'm pretty sure the majority of the community find vMA itself incredibly fun and well designed, if we can look past the RNG loot that is.

remember, "The Maelstrom Arena, there is nothing like it in all oblivion!" - Fa Nuit

baratron

I've completed normal Maelstrom Arena with little difficulty, other than getting bored rigid. If I wanted to play solo, I'd prefer to be questing - doing something with a storyline.

Veteran Maelstrom is beyond me. 5/6 of my characters are Healers, with builds designed around groups of 4. My DPS is atrocious. My solo DPS, without buffs from my groupmates, is even *more* atrocious.

I am of the opinion that my DPS is limited by my ability to press the buttons quickly enough, which is limited by my physical disability. Certainly my gear should be good enough. It's possible that I could optimise things further, but I'm never going to be more than mediocre at DPS on my main characters.

I love Dragonstar Arena, even in Veteran mode on CP 160. I don't enjoy Maelstrom Arena, even in Normal mode on a newbie. (If you start straight out of Coldharbour at level 3, you should be level 10 when you finish). I'd much rather be running Veteran Ruins of Mazzatun or White-Gold Tower.

jakeedmundson

Enemy-of-Coldharbour wrote: »

I would love to do vMA but the terrible RNG keeps me away. I refuse to waste my time on something that does not give a proper reward. Currently, vMA is for masochists.

^^^^^^ This
I will not farm this until this changes... the 1% chance of getting an item you want after 100s of hours of frustration and kilt by rng is not worth it...
I do vet trials every week... multiple times. are my builds "good enough" for vet trials? yep... am i "gud" enough to do vet trials? yep.... but i HATE vMA. Solo instance with the absolute BiS gear locked behind it...PLUS horrible traits - the stupidest idea they could have had... and even after COUNTLESS complaints they leave it the same because the 238 people that run it every week would be upset if it was either easier or had better drop methods.

you know what?
Leave it at the same difficulty... but holy... freakin....GAWD just make it so we can choose the weapon in some way....
give us a choice at the end for
"1 handed weapons" - sword, axe, etc.
"2 handed weapons" - Bow, maul, greatsword, etc.
or
"staff" - flame, lightning, etc.

AND remove the worthless traits... after all that time and money you spend... noone needs training, prosperous, decisive, etc...Most builds need sharpened or precise.

Midori_Oku

Sigtric wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

And ZOS, are you aware of the incredibly low percentage of players with VMA clears? Let alone those who want to partake in attempting it, and or completing it? If so, that should tell you something about the content. Whether it be: Difficulty, mechanics, loot tables, and overall RNG.

Something tells me they have more actual data about this than you think you know.

Exactly! I'm sure they are happy with the number of players who are able to clear it.

Everyone has the potential to beat vet Maelstrom as long as the put in the time, effort, and have a decent setup. It really just comes down to learning to use your build, and learning the mechanics. I don't think anyone can say they didn't have a hard time with it on their first time through and be telling the truth. I really struggled (like twelve hours of my life wasted struggled) with it on my first time through, but now I'm able to complete it in under and hour, and do so daily.

Bobby_V_Rockit

How the hell did those first people get through it without knowing the mechanics?!

Soundwave

Integral1900 wrote: »

Oh it's definitely not for everyone, I've only completed it once on normal but by the time I did my normally laid back if somewhat anxiety prone demeanour had been transformed into a ball of rage and frustration, so much so that I went storming outside and kicked a 10 kilo garden gnome through a hedge. Came to the conclusion that it's most likely not for me

I get more entertainment slamming my *** into door jam. I am good about never trying the maelstrom arena, i am more about playing with my nodes.

newtinmpls

Well.... I don't like grinding.

I don't like puzzles/riddles about what to do, how to solve/survive it.

Since Maelstrom Arena is both, I have no interest in it. I also don't really care for trials, all that sort of "do these dance steps, attempt RNG reward" with minimal stories.

I am really really disappointed in the whole not expanding the undaunted STORYLINEs...really

Schemering

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

How the hell did those first people get through it without knowing the mechanics?!

try; fail and try again until a pattern of skills positions movements and killorder that works emerges

newtinmpls

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

How the hell did those first people get through it without knowing the mechanics?!

Schemering wrote: »

try; fail and try again until a pattern of skills positions movements and killorder that works emerges

And if that is fun for you... do it.

Not something I want to even contemplate

Francescolg

STEVIL wrote: »

That is to say the key is to learn the specific mechanics and positions etc for each level, have gear chosen to meet the content and so on... its making sure you have the keys to fit each set of locks and you turn the locks in the right order.

Specifically, its not about "how good you are" as much as "do you have the pattern".

i believe one said early something like "after you do it once or twice you wont be able to imagiune how you used to lose to it" or something like that.

Thats not for me... not what i like.

I like solving puzzles just fine

After 2 and a half years, I can imagine, how ZOS does it:

The test server guys: CONTENT IS TO EASY - gnaaaaa
ZOS: ---- Ok lets make it harder an harder, patch by patch! Until our Mr. Proper's team of
2year-long-playing-together guys will struggle
The test server guys: Ok, now it's better but, please, make it even harder! It's still too easy for us!! gnaaaaa
ZOS: ---- Ok, who cares, let's raise the bar!
The test server guys: Still could be better, harder, faster... But ok, maybe next patch, ZOS?
ZOS: ---- Ok test server bunnies and fanboys! Next patch we will just make everything so da_n hard, that you will have not just to memorize the patch notes! We give a s__t on the rest of the players! We made this s__t too easy!!
We want everyone to spend a huge time of his spare time rote-learning our (game) content, which will make them ESO-dependent (so many things to learn...), and show you how great ESO is and how well it matches to "WoW's-jun_y style"!

Paraflex

Keep it the way it is...if you can't spend the time and focus on completing the content you don't deserve the rewards.

HouLiGaN

HouLiGaN wrote: »

Took me around a week + a few extra days to complete my first Vmsa, even got up to last stage last boss and raged quite after spending a hole day at that place even Deleting the quest! Then I was thinking VMsa Is NOT for me and I have just to deal with it.
The next day when i was in game with friend`s etc playing, I realized that I HAD to complete Vmsa to keep up with my friend`s progress also. So i got back in there and did it all in much shorter time and completed it. these days it takes me around an hour +-.
Still havn`t got an Inferno Staff

So Yeah, VMSA is NOT for everyone, YOU choose if it`s for you !

Just wanna say I finally got my Inferno Staff In sharpened after around 24 hour`s from this post !
It pays off guyz! and the feeling at the end! Amazing. Yes I did it as many times as everyone else !

Bobby_V_Rockit

Paraflex wrote: »

Keep it the way it is...if you can't spend the time and focus on completing the content you don't deserve the rewards.

Who are you to say what other people do or do not deserve? Get outta here lol.

Beardimus

It's hard content for sure, but shouldn't change one bit.

I was stuck on Stage 1 for months, thought it impossible. Returned with better skill setup and gear, smashed it. Then I got stuck on Stage 2 for about the same. I refocused about a 6 weeks ago and have been pushing on it. Finally, today, i got to stage 9.

It's been frustrating, armour repairs and potions have been pricey but MAN it feels good. I may be stuck here another month but man it's going to feel good to get it done.

I have 1 item spare non-set in my build thus I need the staff, not for BIS, just to fill that slot. So my only gripe is.....i can not see myself ever grinding the thing again endlessly. It's been awesome, but I'm unlikely to repeat once its done as I hear drop rate is terrible and there os too much other content I want to get done.

maybe ill try it to see how much easier it is 2nd time just in case

FloppyTouch

I gave up plus the weps are not needed for me got to stage 6 after many days of trying and said eh