Is Maelstrom Arena Really Not For Everyone?

karldavy149b16_ESO · October 2016

my first clear of round 9 musta took about 2 weeks of 2 hour attempts a day when i first started i would barely get anytime in round 2 cus i wiped so bad but by the time i finally killed the last boss i was breezing thro it with out any deaths ... it is not eliteism its not about dps check altho higher dps will have less issues its about having a reaction to the npcs actions pure and simple and commiting those reactions to memory once u do that its a joke assuming you dont have lag issues ofc

Mettaricana · October 2016

My biggest issue is the burn boss fights where you have to rapid finish a boss in a dps race forcing everyone to be a dps its like why am I doing maelstrom to get a one hander or a resto staff for my healer or tank who they themselves have no chance of doing at all. As well as feeling like I have to be race and class perfect to complete it with very little play what you want. And add amounts also bug me its like how do I survive 12-15 enemies who all at once hit 2k each at once depending on spawn times somerimes they all sync up and fire spells at exactly the same time and regardless of dpdge or block its a one shot.

phairdon · October 2016

Pretty much suck when it comes to veteran maelstrom. Going to take me a long time. Thankfully there are good guides for builds. Watching streamers like Fengrush is helpful too.

wildbear247 · October 2016

I actually like the challenge of vMA. However, after beating the first couple of vMA rounds and tallying up the costs for potions and repairing gear...I decided the reward isn't worth the time invested. I don't want the vMA loot I'm working towards to hide behind an RNG wall that might entail making 100+ runs of vMA just to get one item I'm looking for.

A token system would be one way to address the problem. I'd like to beat vMA and then at some point (10 runs would be cool for me) be able to turn in 10 tokens for the item I'm looking for with the desired trait. Considering there are 3 vMA items I have my eyes on, that would mean a total of 30 vMA runs to get the gear I'd like. Then I could return to the content I find most enjoyable, which these days is mostly PvP and to a lesser extent 4-man group dungeons (and at some point when I find a good guild I'd like to give Trials a shot).

jrgray93 · October 2016

I'm in the middle of farming VMA for a certain drop I need. I've refined my build over the months, practiced a lot, and I'm at the point where I have the potential to score 555-560k but I fall short every single time to dumb deaths because I'm so utterly sick of this content that I am playing poorly from lack of effort.

VMA is really bad design. I have Flawless. I complete VMA almost daily. I completed it six times last Friday. I hate VMA. The difficulty doesn't progress well, with arena 5 being easily the hardest, and too many RNG elements are present in both mechanics (looking at you, Umbrage) and loot. The loot is too unpredictable to make the content anything less than a grind. But since ZOS decided stamina NB gankers should be able to instantly 2-shot people in full heavy with 25k+ health, in a rune focus with heals up, I really want a defending resto staff for my back bar in PVP.

tl;dr: I'm "good" at VMA and I hate it.

altemriel · October 2016

it is endgame content, so for very experienced players

Danksta · October 2016

Simply put, I was a horrible player when Maelstrom Arena came out and it took struggling on normal for me to figure that out. Since then I've learned a lot about builds and just how to be a better player in general. I'm also pretty sure I have arthritis in my hands, and if I don't there's definitely a lot of pain there that somewhat hinders my potential as a player. I'm currently on stage 9 and have only given it a couple half-assed attempts since getting there. I will beat it sometime, and if I can then I have to believe the majority of people have the capability to do so as well. It just takes time, patience and determination.

jrgray93 · October 2016

Danksta wrote: »

Simply put, I was a horrible player when Maelstrom Arena came out and it took struggling on normal for me to figure that out. Since then I've learned a lot about builds and just how to be a better player in general. I'm also pretty sure I have arthritis in my hands, and if I don't there's definitely a lot of pain there that somewhat hinders my potential as a player. I'm currently on stage 9 and have only given it a couple half-assed attempts since getting there. I will beat it sometime, and if I can then I have to believe the majority of people have the capability to do so as well. It just takes time, patience and determination.

VMA + my Razer Naga mouse = my thumb is in constant pain

Moltyr · October 2016

No. It's not for everyone. You need the right gear, plenty of gold. Hundreds of hours of spare time (to farm whatever weapons you want). The mechanics are completely *** as well. You take damage from mobs when you shouldn't, numerous bugs to navigate past etc. I've gotten to where I can clear it in ~1 hour or less now. Even then, it is an incredible waste of time. No useful weapons. The weapons I do get that could be used by any of my toons are garbage traits. I think at one point I got 10 staffs IN A ROW. Mostly resto staffs, but also 2 garbage trait destros.

I recommend not wasting your time with it. Wait until ZOS (hopefully) decides to not cater to just the "no-lifers" who play ESO for a living.

Izaki · October 2016

Runs wrote: »

I had such a hard time in normal mode within the first month or so of it's release last year that when I finally beat it on normal, I never tried vet. Flash forward to a few weeks ago, I decided to give the vet version a try. First stage cleared with no issues, no death. Second stage I died on the 3 final bosses, when they were each under 10%. Figured "I got this"...

I want to say 10 deaths later, but it was probably only 5, I got frustrated and left. I was barely touching the bosses health at all on these other attempts... Crafted some new gear, got the champion points in order and practiced on some trash mobs and my DPS was looking a decent amount better. So I went back... Could not beat round 1, tried till I got frustrated again and left.

After reading this thread, I figured I would go back in and try again. I made it back to the final round(still on second stage) and I'm consistently almost killing the bosses like I did my first try on vet. This time, I'm not getting frustrated at least. Just seeing thread after thread how bad the RNG is on the weapons makes my motivation to beat it take a nose dive. I will eventually beat it but I can't ever see myself farming the weapons.

The biggest grind in an MMO should never be solo content.

Was writing this in between tries, and just cleared the second stage Onto the Drome of Toxic Shock

Hehe no one goes in there thinking they'll be farming weapons. In the end it all ends up the same for everyone: 100 runs and still no perfect weapon. Inferno staff for me

Epona222 · October 2016

jrgray93 wrote: »

Danksta wrote: »

Simply put, I was a horrible player when Maelstrom Arena came out and it took struggling on normal for me to figure that out. Since then I've learned a lot about builds and just how to be a better player in general. I'm also pretty sure I have arthritis in my hands, and if I don't there's definitely a lot of pain there that somewhat hinders my potential as a player. I'm currently on stage 9 and have only given it a couple half-assed attempts since getting there. I will beat it sometime, and if I can then I have to believe the majority of people have the capability to do so as well. It just takes time, patience and determination.

VMA + my Razer Naga mouse = my thumb is in constant pain

I have arthritis in my thumb joints, the best remedy for this is to use an ordinary bog-standard keyboard and mouse ($30 at most), rather than putting a lot of pressure on those joints to perform in terms of control pads or an expensive gaming mouse that makes your thumb do a lot of button pressing. With a standard kb+m, the only time you use your thumbs is for the space bar

Acharnor · October 2016

Vet MA is defintely not for everyone. You have to be dedicated and committed and persistent AF! I am stuck on round 3. It is painful - I'll keep at it though. Maybe when I have 800 CP I'll progress. LOL.

Meilinka · October 2016

What is this PvE you speak of?

jrgray93 · October 2016

Epona222 wrote: »

jrgray93 wrote: »

Danksta wrote: »

Simply put, I was a horrible player when Maelstrom Arena came out and it took struggling on normal for me to figure that out. Since then I've learned a lot about builds and just how to be a better player in general. I'm also pretty sure I have arthritis in my hands, and if I don't there's definitely a lot of pain there that somewhat hinders my potential as a player. I'm currently on stage 9 and have only given it a couple half-assed attempts since getting there. I will beat it sometime, and if I can then I have to believe the majority of people have the capability to do so as well. It just takes time, patience and determination.

VMA + my Razer Naga mouse = my thumb is in constant pain

I have arthritis in my thumb joints, the best remedy for this is to use an ordinary bog-standard keyboard and mouse ($30 at most), rather than putting a lot of pressure on those joints to perform in terms of control pads or an expensive gaming mouse that makes your thumb do a lot of button pressing. With a standard kb+m, the only time you use your thumbs is for the space bar

I used to get pain in my wrists until I fixed my setup. My keyboard has a palm rest attached for WASD and it keeps my wrist straight. My only issue is the damned thumb but it only becomes a problem if I do VMA too much. It's the only content in any game I play that actually can cause my physical pain. I just need to not do VMA.

But yeah, it's very important to find a setup that works for you if you're a heavy gamer. You can do some serious damage to muscles, nerves, and joints if you don't have a solid, healthy setup.

Juhasow · October 2016

I did it with 163 cp in 2 hours 12 minutes with my 1st try. With 204 cp i had 1h 10 m and 480k score. So if You ask is anyone able to finish it answer is YES but if You ask is this content enjoyable and worth of the price You get there answer is NO. Bugs, lags , poor RNG from last chest and mechanics that are more boring then anjoyable. So vMA is not for people who quickly get boring or annoyed.

timidobserver · October 2016

I don't have an issue with the difficulty or the mechanics. My issues are the gold cost and RNG loot system. VMSA needs undaunted plunder or BoE stuff and some kind of token system.

eserras7b16_ESO · October 2016

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

I've been noticing that there really are far and few people with Stormproof and Flawless Conqueror titles, as well as without Maelstrom weapons. The content has been out for months now, and even had a few tweaks and a 100% drop-rate added for a Maelstrom weapon to be in the last chest. And yet... There are still few people with Maelstrom clears. Let alone people who even want to be bothered with it. In fact, I know plenty of people on PS4-NA who have their buddies complete it or in a sense pay others to clear it for them. I've even been offered to do clears for people and get paid, but refused. I also noticed that on a lot of forum polls asking about people's involvement with the content, they often state how it's a waste of time. Or, how they want nothing to do with it in the slightest. Why is this?

And ZOS, are you aware of the incredibly low percentage of players with VMA clears? Let alone those who want to partake in attempting it, and or completing it? If so, that should tell you something about the content. Whether it be: Difficulty, mechanics, loot tables, and overall RNG.

No, it's not for everyone, as Veteran Trials aren't for everyone neither.

Keep in mind but, that the 95% of the content of the game is ment for everyone, from PvP to Questing, 4man Dungeons, and a long etc. vMA? 1% of player base. vAA/vHEL-RA/vSO? 5% of player base. vMoL? 0,1% of player base.

It's cool to have a bit of hard content. Problem in the matter is that ZoS fails to comunicate this to it's player base. People think vMA is ment for them to clear it, and it is just not for people who doesn't play daily and are on the meta of builds.

Wifeaggro13 · October 2016

Alanar wrote: »

This is timely for me, considering that I got Flawless Conqueror yesterday.

I would argue that Veteran Maelstrom is for everyone...who is willing to put in the work.

The first half of the work is getting to a strong end-game build, champion points, skills, gear, and knowing how to use them.

The second half of the work is learning the arena, for most players, you should expect to spend as much as 100 hours in the Arena before you've mastered it.

For my journey, I was at about 400 CP when I started the Arena, I was at almost 600 CP when I cleared it the first time, and I'm at almost 700 CP now. I died over 1000 times working on my first complete, and then got my first flawless run on my 24th attempt. This is not an arena for the feint of heart, but with work and persistence it can be done.

I think my only problem with the Arena and all of ESO's endgame is the statement end game build. the end game build in ESO is the same for everyone it is the highest producing DPS build or Flavor of the update DPS build. the whole arena is based on maintaining a DPS rotation while avoiding red and oneshots. there is no arena for Tank,heals or a( hybrid utility player which does not exist). In truth ESO is comprised of two rolls at group end game for 90 percent of the content . Heals and dps. and with this update form what we have seen on the test server adding all those vet dungeons makes it even worse now there is a even larger percentage of content that can be duo'd with just DPS and heals.

Asardes · October 2016

Most healers are pure magicka builds that have leveled their class skills, light armor and restoration/destruction staff anyway. With the right gear they can have huge DPS output while healing effectively at the same time. Templars and even Nighblades excel at this. If the group is experienced enough and doesn't take unnecessary damage that share increases. In fact the best healers I've run were doing tremendous damage while healing only when it was necessary, mostly HoTs and only rarely a BoL while keeping a good supply of shards and orbs. We stayed at full health while the beam snuffed out the last 30% of the boss health in a few seconds. So I see no impediment in healers running VMA and acing it.

For tanks it's more complicated, since heavy armor and 1H+S which are their bread and butter don't pertain to DD-ing. But a character who mostly tanks, is stamina build (with tri-glyphs and gold gear you can hit the needed health without putting any points in there) and has leveled medium armor, bow and 2H/2W can probably complete it.

I have a stamina DK and I have passable DD gear (usual Hunding/NM/Agility combo). I will attempt VMA after I buy the DLC. I have run as DD in VICP and VWGT for speed runs so probably my DPS is not that bad - I have none of the fancy meters but stuff goes down pretty quick and some hits register as high as 28K in scrolling combat text. In PvP I'm ranged/burst DD because I tried tanking and was not very useful. ATM I'm only specced in 2H & Bow. My only question I have is: It's possible to stick just to those for successful completion, or do I need to also spec 2W for AoE phases.

CombatPrayer · October 2016

I've known people who spend days and weeks in frustration dealing with Maelstrom. Frankly, that is not something that appeals to most. It's a GAME. For FUN. Plenty of people would be turned off by that idea right off the bat. Can't blame them a single bit especially if they really want to focus on something else they enjoy more and perhaps have enough of a real life where spending their game time doing something like that seems less than fun to them.

Dulkur · October 2016

I am an average player at best, I spent the time to learn VMA, for me it is some of the most enjoyable content in the game, simply because its a challenge that I am not dependent on anyone else to complete. I enjoy the challenge of the new dungeons also, but you have to hope people will stick with it through enough wipes to complete it, but I have yet to see "endgame" content in an online game that wasn't about taking a beating while you learn to do better until you can finally get it done. And some of the most successful server first players were the ones willing to sit through wipe after wipe until they trained themselves on what to do, and it is the same with VMA you don't need to be a great player to get it done, and you don't need to memorize spawns, you just need to understand the mechanics of the fights, and if your character is weak in an area use the provided buffs to get through it.

VMA has caused more interest for me in completing other PvE content simply to get the weapon and armors to do better in VMA (I mainly enjoy small scale PvP in IC). I would like some changes to the way gear is handled for VMA, I wish the enchants were dropped as a glyph so we could put them on whatever style and trait of weapon we wanted, even if the enchant overwrote set bonus it would make it more versatile than what we have now, and I would like some new armor sets added.

CombatPrayer · October 2016

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Hm... I'm curious then. If ZOS nerfed the content further, and managed to include a token system or vendor of sorts — would those of you not interested in clearing it go for clears then?

Someone in my guild has done VMA 200 times. On his 200th time he finally got a maelstrom bow he wanted. 200 times..... that's a tedious grind. Pretty sure a huge amount of the player base would opt to say eff that and move on. If they fixed it so it was not random, so that you could get things of use to you rather than awful RNG system, I'm sure many more would try for it. But knowing that in the end after grinding through it that it is ultimately RNG? Yeah, I see right off why people wouldn't waste their time. I wouldn't either.

jrgray93 · October 2016

It would be cool if VMA had a 2-player mode that would be more difficult but cater to mixed roles, allowing tanks / healers to actually play as tanks and healers instead of exclusively needing a high DPS character that can self-heal.

Schemering · October 2016

jrgray93 wrote: »

It would be cool if VMA had a 2-player mode that would be more difficult but cater to mixed roles, allowing tanks / healers to actually play as tanks and healers instead of exclusively needing a high DPS character that can self-heal.

id like to go one step further, a separate 2 person trial, more 4 person trials and maybe also 6,8,24 person trials

Armitas · October 2016

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

I simply cannot do it. I have all legendary gear (5x TBS, 2x velidreth, 3x agility (epic), 2x Leki DW) all legendary enchants on jewellery (wd), weapons (wd, onslaught) and armour (stam), all skills maxed and 556cp.

I honestlty just lack the skill to do it, after 12 months of playing almost daily. I dont use pots other than for health and cant get used to it. There will be no maelstrom weapons for little Rob

Add Viscious ophidian to your TBS and use trap beast in your rotation and your performance will sky rocket. This is exactly what I noticed when I added each one separately. You can do it, its not you its the dungeons strick design. Baring any disabilites anyone can do it. There is nothing special about the people who have completed it other than perhaps their ability to overcome that intial hurdle of pain and suffering that truley never goes away. I couldn't overcome the frustration hurdle at release so I rage quit the game. I only managed to overcome it latter with a better gear setup and class.

Vangy · October 2016

The only thing i dislike about vMA is that its only for one style of play. As much DPS as you can put out while self healing style of play.....

Why cant there be interesting mechanics that allow SnB DPS builds to compete? Or a semi-healer build or some kind of sustain build.

Like the new hists dungeons. Plenty of one shots if u fail mechanics but no DPS race. You could burn boss with huge DPS groups or u could even clear it with average DPS while following mechanics.

anitajoneb17_ESO · October 2016

Dulkur wrote: »

I wish the enchants were dropped as a glyph so we could put them on whatever style and trait of weapon we wanted, even if the enchant overwrote set bonus it would make it more versatile than what we have now, and I would like some new armor sets added.

Bound glyphs for maelstroem bonus, instead of weapons ? That sounds like an *excellent* idea !

Epona222 · October 2016

jrgray93 wrote: »

It would be cool if VMA had a 2-player mode that would be more difficult but cater to mixed roles, allowing tanks / healers to actually play as tanks and healers instead of exclusively needing a high DPS character that can self-heal.

I agree with this in general, I think the more dungeons/solo trials/group trials have different modes in terms of difficulty and scaling to number of people in the group, the better. No need to go overboard about rewards, I'm not suggesting that people should be able to do Maelstrom as a duo and get the best gear, but just that it might help people to learn the mechanics and get some fun out of it if they could do it in a wider range of difficulty/"number in group" modes.

Armitas · October 2016

Gating an item behind a grind is fine. Gating an item behind a tedius and enraging grind is a recipe for people to leave your game. A grind is something you can zone out while doing. For any game I have grinded on I have listened to music or documentaries with zero frustration. I can zone out for most of vma but the rng and the poor performance along with the duration is infuriating making for a painful experience no matter what you zone out too.

Sallington · October 2016

It's not for everyone, and that's a good thing. Not everything in the game needs to be for everyone playing it.