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Community - Suggestion for better Community Input to the Devs
-
Bashev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »...we look at the big picture to see what needs to be done for the betterment of the game as a whole and how something will affect all aspects (PvE, PvP, dungeons, Trials, etc).
You know what would be good for the game?
If pvp worked during primetime.
You´d have 10 times the pvp playerbase if pvp wasn´t a freaking lagfest when you try to play it between 7 to 11pm on EU PC.
I´ll put it quite simple: Everyone i´ve played with in my guild since release. Literally everyone. Everyone of those people quit your game because it does not work during primetime in pvp.
Not because of anything else. Only because it does not work.
Over the past 3 years you have not been able to get your game to work during primetime.
How you can come here and have the audacity to tell people you´re doing anything for the betterment of the game in pvp is beyond me and i find that statement infuriating and straightup insulting (i know you´re not to blame for the state of affairs in general - i´m only blaming you for making the statement that there is anything done for the betterment of pvp - simply because it´s a lie).
Your game does not even work unless you play it in the morning.
Seriously
I know you're frustrated, but remember the statement I made earlier was in regards to ability changes and not performance. Now that said, we do have several performance improvements coming in Update 16 (Monday for PC) that will help improve the frame rate and loading screens - this includes Cyrodiil.
@ZOS_GinaBruno can you post the dev team analyzes for the test with no CP campaigns?Because I can!0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »...we look at the big picture to see what needs to be done for the betterment of the game as a whole and how something will affect all aspects (PvE, PvP, dungeons, Trials, etc).
You know what would be good for the game?
If pvp worked during primetime.
You´d have 10 times the pvp playerbase if pvp wasn´t a freaking lagfest when you try to play it between 7 to 11pm on EU PC.
I´ll put it quite simple: Everyone i´ve played with in my guild since release. Literally everyone. Everyone of those people quit your game because it does not work during primetime in pvp.
Not because of anything else. Only because it does not work.
Over the past 3 years you have not been able to get your game to work during primetime.
How you can come here and have the audacity to tell people you´re doing anything for the betterment of the game in pvp is beyond me and i find that statement infuriating and straightup insulting (i know you´re not to blame for the state of affairs in general - i´m only blaming you for making the statement that there is anything done for the betterment of pvp - simply because it´s a lie).
Your game does not even work unless you play it in the morning.
Seriously
I know you're frustrated, but remember the statement I made earlier was in regards to ability changes and not performance. Now that said, we do have several performance improvements coming in Update 16 (Monday for PC) that will help improve the frame rate and loading screens - this includes Cyrodiil.
Any API changes we can expect in the final PTS patch?Edited by DDuke on October 20, 2017 3:51PM0 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »...we look at the big picture to see what needs to be done for the betterment of the game as a whole and how something will affect all aspects (PvE, PvP, dungeons, Trials, etc).
You know what would be good for the game?
If pvp worked during primetime.
You´d have 10 times the pvp playerbase if pvp wasn´t a freaking lagfest when you try to play it between 7 to 11pm on EU PC.
I´ll put it quite simple: Everyone i´ve played with in my guild since release. Literally everyone. Everyone of those people quit your game because it does not work during primetime in pvp.
Not because of anything else. Only because it does not work.
Over the past 3 years you have not been able to get your game to work during primetime.
How you can come here and have the audacity to tell people you´re doing anything for the betterment of the game in pvp is beyond me and i find that statement infuriating and straightup insulting (i know you´re not to blame for the state of affairs in general - i´m only blaming you for making the statement that there is anything done for the betterment of pvp - simply because it´s a lie).
Your game does not even work unless you play it in the morning.
Seriously
I know you're frustrated, but remember the statement I made earlier was in regards to ability changes and not performance. Now that said, we do have several performance improvements coming in Update 16 (Monday for PC) that will help improve the frame rate and loading screens - this includes Cyrodiil.
Thank you Gina!
We are a ravenous bunch over in PVP land, but the statement seeing performance improvements is good to see.
As much as I want to see those notes early, I can wait for Monday.
Happy Friday!Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual2 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ZoS does listen to our feedback. That doesn't mean that if ZoS chooses not to implement your feedback, they ignored it.
Taking your frustrations out on Gina over issues she has zero control over is a pretty crappy thing to do.Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.7 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »ZoS does listen to our feedback. That doesn't mean that if ZoS chooses not to implement your feedback, they ignored it.
Taking your frustrations out on Gina over issues she has zero control over is a pretty crappy thing to do.
To be honest, she could at the very least tell us what's going on - isn't that what community managers do?
For example:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/376277/is-miats-add-on-cheating-to-you/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/374249/zenimax-restrict-your-api/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/308971/miats-pvp-alerts-addon/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/375200/ban-addons-in-pvp/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/376334/would-you-like-add-ons-disabled-for-pvp/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/363016/so-miats-pvp-addon-can-detect-stealth-players-even-when-they-are-in-stealth-state/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/376007/interview-with-miat-lets-talk-add-ons-cheating-and-q-a/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/322527/the-addons-cheats-that-allow-you-to-dodge-perfectly/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/371550/rampant-cheating-in-pvp-what-is-being-done-about-it-zos/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4485065#Comment_4485065
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/369568/should-miats-attack-alert-be-allowed/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/368871/add-on-request-miats-pvp-pump-fake#latest
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/369455/addons-detecting-attacks-from-stealth/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/360442/miat-addon/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/311028/miats-addon-new-meta
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/360432/why-is-miats-hack-still-around/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/358293/what-add-ons-are-border-line-cheating-to-you/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/369455/addons-detecting-attacks-from-stealth/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/343700/so-zos-are-you-going-to-do-something-w-miats-pvp-addon
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/343177/miat-add-on-stealth-detection
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/340047/remove-incoming-projectile-api-notification-please/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/de/discussion/333501/miats-pvp-addon/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/320643/so-why-is-miats-hack-add-on-still-active
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/319348/miat-hack-add-on
...etc
Almost a year and all we've got is:ZOS_GinaBruno wrote:Hey guys, just letting you know that we have seen and read this thread, and have brought it to the team's attention.
What's being done about it?
Is this being fixed, or are you just leaving it be & hoping these threads stop appearing?
Communication is important.8 -
usmcjdking✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭This is one of the most petulant, crybaby threads I've seen yet.
The only relevant feedback in here that should result in the abuse being thrown in the direction of the ESO team in general is the QOS in PVP and in some instances PVE. ESO PVP is worthless in prime time, and has been for almost 2 1/2 years. PVE Trials QOS has taken a dump over the years, and a multi-hour VMA run STILL causes massive lag and FPS issues. This is, flatly stated, unacceptable. With that said, I doubt that the ESO team is oblivious to this, and I doubt that they haven't worked endless hours on fixing it...
What I do doubt is that they've gone to all reaches to fix this because any manager who cares about their product & team would have fought tooth-and-nail to get every resource available to fix the latency issues in Cyro. If they had this wouldn't be a problem 3 years in. At the very minimum it is a physical resource issue, wherein the actual equipment is not rated for the workload put onto it which I am having a hard time believing that ZOS can't afford better hamsters. Is it the developers/coders/networkers fault? A portion of blame goes that direction, but not in any large capacity because if they don't have the resources (re: personnel) then how can they fix it given everything else that goes into the business a constantly updating MMO?
I am honestly tired of developer comments replying to players beyond the typical troll post, customer service intervention, or bug report. They have no business responding to a thread like this or anyone that posts here. It's kind of them to show attention to the community and have a presence, sure. But I prefer professionalism over kindness and the two don't mix very often, nor do they mix very well.
@ZOS_GinaBruno
Take it for what it's worth as someone who worked in the communications field for 10+ years. Now that I'm the filthy user, and you're the provider, the roles have reversed (at least in my case)/ Get what you can now before resources start to get dried up. ESO has already passed it's proverbial perihelion. If you need people/equipment, lobby the ZOS overlords for it, and by lobby I mean harrass. Most of us don't care if you post on these forums or not - I pay to play, I don't pay to talk to you or provide feedback. As a customer, I don't care what it takes. I don't care who you have to talk to. I don't care how long you have to work. I don't care what 'tweaks' you have. If my performance isn't flawless then it's not good enough and the appeasement approach is waning on my goodwill here. I am reaching wit's end when it comes to Cyro performance during primetime. Fix it, please, before I simply find a new game.0331
06025 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭usmcjdking wrote: »Most of us don't care if you post on these forums or not
Speak for yourself.
The worst thing is not knowing what's going to happen about something. It only sows discord & speculation on the forums & creates an unhealthy community.
The longer the time passes and the longer issues go unaddressed, the more frustrated people get. I firmly believe companies can alleviate these issues by talking to their customers & letting them know what's going on and what's going to happen.1 -
ZOS_GinaBrunoCommunity Manager
I'm actually not sure what the final findings were, but can try to find out. That said, expect to see what's on the PTS to go live with the update on Monday. If we decide to change anything, it won't be until an incremental patch.ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »...we look at the big picture to see what needs to be done for the betterment of the game as a whole and how something will affect all aspects (PvE, PvP, dungeons, Trials, etc).
You know what would be good for the game?
If pvp worked during primetime.
You´d have 10 times the pvp playerbase if pvp wasn´t a freaking lagfest when you try to play it between 7 to 11pm on EU PC.
I´ll put it quite simple: Everyone i´ve played with in my guild since release. Literally everyone. Everyone of those people quit your game because it does not work during primetime in pvp.
Not because of anything else. Only because it does not work.
Over the past 3 years you have not been able to get your game to work during primetime.
How you can come here and have the audacity to tell people you´re doing anything for the betterment of the game in pvp is beyond me and i find that statement infuriating and straightup insulting (i know you´re not to blame for the state of affairs in general - i´m only blaming you for making the statement that there is anything done for the betterment of pvp - simply because it´s a lie).
Your game does not even work unless you play it in the morning.
Seriously
I know you're frustrated, but remember the statement I made earlier was in regards to ability changes and not performance. Now that said, we do have several performance improvements coming in Update 16 (Monday for PC) that will help improve the frame rate and loading screens - this includes Cyrodiil.
@ZOS_GinaBruno can you post the dev team analyzes for the test with no CP campaigns?
The final PTS patch is already live as we're going live with the update on Monday, but there won't be any API changes in that update. A future patch? Very likely. Am actually about to go post in another thread about this after posting here.ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »...we look at the big picture to see what needs to be done for the betterment of the game as a whole and how something will affect all aspects (PvE, PvP, dungeons, Trials, etc).
You know what would be good for the game?
If pvp worked during primetime.
You´d have 10 times the pvp playerbase if pvp wasn´t a freaking lagfest when you try to play it between 7 to 11pm on EU PC.
I´ll put it quite simple: Everyone i´ve played with in my guild since release. Literally everyone. Everyone of those people quit your game because it does not work during primetime in pvp.
Not because of anything else. Only because it does not work.
Over the past 3 years you have not been able to get your game to work during primetime.
How you can come here and have the audacity to tell people you´re doing anything for the betterment of the game in pvp is beyond me and i find that statement infuriating and straightup insulting (i know you´re not to blame for the state of affairs in general - i´m only blaming you for making the statement that there is anything done for the betterment of pvp - simply because it´s a lie).
Your game does not even work unless you play it in the morning.
Seriously
I know you're frustrated, but remember the statement I made earlier was in regards to ability changes and not performance. Now that said, we do have several performance improvements coming in Update 16 (Monday for PC) that will help improve the frame rate and loading screens - this includes Cyrodiil.
Any API changes we can expect in the final PTS patch?
5 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »
I'm actually not sure what the final findings were, but can try to find out. That said, expect to see what's on the PTS to go live with the update on Monday. If we decide to change anything, it won't be until an incremental patch.ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »...we look at the big picture to see what needs to be done for the betterment of the game as a whole and how something will affect all aspects (PvE, PvP, dungeons, Trials, etc).
You know what would be good for the game?
If pvp worked during primetime.
You´d have 10 times the pvp playerbase if pvp wasn´t a freaking lagfest when you try to play it between 7 to 11pm on EU PC.
I´ll put it quite simple: Everyone i´ve played with in my guild since release. Literally everyone. Everyone of those people quit your game because it does not work during primetime in pvp.
Not because of anything else. Only because it does not work.
Over the past 3 years you have not been able to get your game to work during primetime.
How you can come here and have the audacity to tell people you´re doing anything for the betterment of the game in pvp is beyond me and i find that statement infuriating and straightup insulting (i know you´re not to blame for the state of affairs in general - i´m only blaming you for making the statement that there is anything done for the betterment of pvp - simply because it´s a lie).
Your game does not even work unless you play it in the morning.
Seriously
I know you're frustrated, but remember the statement I made earlier was in regards to ability changes and not performance. Now that said, we do have several performance improvements coming in Update 16 (Monday for PC) that will help improve the frame rate and loading screens - this includes Cyrodiil.
@ZOS_GinaBruno can you post the dev team analyzes for the test with no CP campaigns?
The final PTS patch is already live as we're going live with the update on Monday, but there won't be any API changes in that update. A future patch? Very likely. Am actually about to go post in another thread about this after posting here.ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »...we look at the big picture to see what needs to be done for the betterment of the game as a whole and how something will affect all aspects (PvE, PvP, dungeons, Trials, etc).
You know what would be good for the game?
If pvp worked during primetime.
You´d have 10 times the pvp playerbase if pvp wasn´t a freaking lagfest when you try to play it between 7 to 11pm on EU PC.
I´ll put it quite simple: Everyone i´ve played with in my guild since release. Literally everyone. Everyone of those people quit your game because it does not work during primetime in pvp.
Not because of anything else. Only because it does not work.
Over the past 3 years you have not been able to get your game to work during primetime.
How you can come here and have the audacity to tell people you´re doing anything for the betterment of the game in pvp is beyond me and i find that statement infuriating and straightup insulting (i know you´re not to blame for the state of affairs in general - i´m only blaming you for making the statement that there is anything done for the betterment of pvp - simply because it´s a lie).
Your game does not even work unless you play it in the morning.
Seriously
I know you're frustrated, but remember the statement I made earlier was in regards to ability changes and not performance. Now that said, we do have several performance improvements coming in Update 16 (Monday for PC) that will help improve the frame rate and loading screens - this includes Cyrodiil.
Any API changes we can expect in the final PTS patch?
With patch you mean big three month patch or an incremental patch? please don't let us wait another 3 months for something that would help the game so much that you could already add to the game3 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭usmcjdking wrote: »Most of us don't care if you post on these forums or not
Speak for yourself.
The worst thing is not knowing what's going to happen about something. It only sows discord & speculation on the forums & creates an unhealthy community.
The longer the time passes and the longer issues go unaddressed, the more frustrated people get. I firmly believe companies can alleviate these issues by talking to their customers & letting them know what's going on and what's going to happen.
well in the context of the performance, I think the community can wait till Monday to see. Besides, what good are performance changes without the population required to test those changes? PTS pop is too low to gauge any fixes they implement, so we can be a bit patient on that one.
But i agree on the API issues; the API dev gave inconsistent comments about ZOS design intent regarding their API functions. Would be great to see that answered so we can move on.
Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
usmcjdking✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭usmcjdking wrote: »Most of us don't care if you post on these forums or not
Speak for yourself.
The worst thing is not knowing what's going to happen about something. It only sows discord & speculation on the forums & creates an unhealthy community.
The longer the time passes and the longer issues go unaddressed, the more frustrated people get. I firmly believe companies can alleviate these issues by talking to their customers & letting them know what's going on and what's going to happen.
I can guarantee you that less than 20% of the player base actively checks and reads the forums.
So, no. I'm not speaking for myself.Edited by usmcjdking on October 20, 2017 5:08PM0331
06020 -
Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »...we look at the big picture to see what needs to be done for the betterment of the game as a whole and how something will affect all aspects (PvE, PvP, dungeons, Trials, etc).
You know what would be good for the game?
If pvp worked during primetime.
You´d have 10 times the pvp playerbase if pvp wasn´t a freaking lagfest when you try to play it between 7 to 11pm on EU PC.
I´ll put it quite simple: Everyone i´ve played with in my guild since release. Literally everyone. Everyone of those people quit your game because it does not work during primetime in pvp.
Not because of anything else. Only because it does not work.
Over the past 3 years you have not been able to get your game to work during primetime.
How you can come here and have the audacity to tell people you´re doing anything for the betterment of the game in pvp is beyond me and i find that statement infuriating and straightup insulting (i know you´re not to blame for the state of affairs in general - i´m only blaming you for making the statement that there is anything done for the betterment of pvp - simply because it´s a lie).
Your game does not even work unless you play it in the morning.
Seriously
I know you're frustrated, but remember the statement I made earlier was in regards to ability changes and not performance. Now that said, we do have several performance improvements coming in Update 16 (Monday for PC) that will help improve the frame rate and loading screens - this includes Cyrodiil.
@ZOS_GinaBruno can you post the dev team analyzes for the test with no CP campaigns?
@Bashev @ZOS_GinaBruno
Unfortunately something like that needs to be tested on live. While they can test it on their end, it will be using their computers, and not the hundreds of various systems that are used by the player base.
This is something that is near impossible to test on the PTS, and must be pushed to live with easy access to rollback if it doesn't work. Simply put tests like this need large volumes of data and user stories to accurately test, which the PTS isn't able to provide.
2 -
Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »ZoS does listen to our feedback. That doesn't mean that if ZoS chooses not to implement your feedback, they ignored it.
Taking your frustrations out on Gina over issues she has zero control over is a pretty crappy thing to do.
To be honest, she could at the very least tell us what's going on - isn't that what community managers do?
For example:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/376277/is-miats-add-on-cheating-to-you/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/374249/zenimax-restrict-your-api/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/308971/miats-pvp-alerts-addon/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/375200/ban-addons-in-pvp/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/376334/would-you-like-add-ons-disabled-for-pvp/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/363016/so-miats-pvp-addon-can-detect-stealth-players-even-when-they-are-in-stealth-state/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/376007/interview-with-miat-lets-talk-add-ons-cheating-and-q-a/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/322527/the-addons-cheats-that-allow-you-to-dodge-perfectly/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/371550/rampant-cheating-in-pvp-what-is-being-done-about-it-zos/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4485065#Comment_4485065
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/369568/should-miats-attack-alert-be-allowed/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/368871/add-on-request-miats-pvp-pump-fake#latest
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/369455/addons-detecting-attacks-from-stealth/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/360442/miat-addon/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/311028/miats-addon-new-meta
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/360432/why-is-miats-hack-still-around/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/358293/what-add-ons-are-border-line-cheating-to-you/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/369455/addons-detecting-attacks-from-stealth/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/343700/so-zos-are-you-going-to-do-something-w-miats-pvp-addon
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/343177/miat-add-on-stealth-detection
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/340047/remove-incoming-projectile-api-notification-please/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/de/discussion/333501/miats-pvp-addon/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/320643/so-why-is-miats-hack-add-on-still-active
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/319348/miat-hack-add-on
...etc
Almost a year and all we've got is:ZOS_GinaBruno wrote:Hey guys, just letting you know that we have seen and read this thread, and have brought it to the team's attention.
What's being done about it?
Is this being fixed, or are you just leaving it be & hoping these threads stop appearing?
Communication is important.
Yes, communication is important, so is refining your argument. Have one thread that forms a consensus of a variety of people so the Devs can use that as the sounding board, rather than 20+ threads.0 -
Bashev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Avran_Sylt wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »...we look at the big picture to see what needs to be done for the betterment of the game as a whole and how something will affect all aspects (PvE, PvP, dungeons, Trials, etc).
You know what would be good for the game?
If pvp worked during primetime.
You´d have 10 times the pvp playerbase if pvp wasn´t a freaking lagfest when you try to play it between 7 to 11pm on EU PC.
I´ll put it quite simple: Everyone i´ve played with in my guild since release. Literally everyone. Everyone of those people quit your game because it does not work during primetime in pvp.
Not because of anything else. Only because it does not work.
Over the past 3 years you have not been able to get your game to work during primetime.
How you can come here and have the audacity to tell people you´re doing anything for the betterment of the game in pvp is beyond me and i find that statement infuriating and straightup insulting (i know you´re not to blame for the state of affairs in general - i´m only blaming you for making the statement that there is anything done for the betterment of pvp - simply because it´s a lie).
Your game does not even work unless you play it in the morning.
Seriously
I know you're frustrated, but remember the statement I made earlier was in regards to ability changes and not performance. Now that said, we do have several performance improvements coming in Update 16 (Monday for PC) that will help improve the frame rate and loading screens - this includes Cyrodiil.
@ZOS_GinaBruno can you post the dev team analyzes for the test with no CP campaigns?
@Bashev @ZOS_GinaBruno
Unfortunately something like that needs to be tested on live. While they can test it on their end, it will be using their computers, and not the hundreds of various systems that are used by the player base.
This is something that is near impossible to test on the PTS, and must be pushed to live with easy access to rollback if it doesn't work. Simply put tests like this need large volumes of data and user stories to accurately test, which the PTS isn't able to provide.
I was talking about the double ap event on live that we had 6 momths ago. Zos didnt publish any results.Because I can!0 -
Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Avran_Sylt wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »...we look at the big picture to see what needs to be done for the betterment of the game as a whole and how something will affect all aspects (PvE, PvP, dungeons, Trials, etc).
You know what would be good for the game?
If pvp worked during primetime.
You´d have 10 times the pvp playerbase if pvp wasn´t a freaking lagfest when you try to play it between 7 to 11pm on EU PC.
I´ll put it quite simple: Everyone i´ve played with in my guild since release. Literally everyone. Everyone of those people quit your game because it does not work during primetime in pvp.
Not because of anything else. Only because it does not work.
Over the past 3 years you have not been able to get your game to work during primetime.
How you can come here and have the audacity to tell people you´re doing anything for the betterment of the game in pvp is beyond me and i find that statement infuriating and straightup insulting (i know you´re not to blame for the state of affairs in general - i´m only blaming you for making the statement that there is anything done for the betterment of pvp - simply because it´s a lie).
Your game does not even work unless you play it in the morning.
Seriously
I know you're frustrated, but remember the statement I made earlier was in regards to ability changes and not performance. Now that said, we do have several performance improvements coming in Update 16 (Monday for PC) that will help improve the frame rate and loading screens - this includes Cyrodiil.
@ZOS_GinaBruno can you post the dev team analyzes for the test with no CP campaigns?
@Bashev @ZOS_GinaBruno
Unfortunately something like that needs to be tested on live. While they can test it on their end, it will be using their computers, and not the hundreds of various systems that are used by the player base.
This is something that is near impossible to test on the PTS, and must be pushed to live with easy access to rollback if it doesn't work. Simply put tests like this need large volumes of data and user stories to accurately test, which the PTS isn't able to provide.
I was talking about the double ap event on live that we had 6 momths ago. Zos didnt publish any results.
Oh, my bad.
0 -
RandomName123✭✭✭Avran_Sylt wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »...we look at the big picture to see what needs to be done for the betterment of the game as a whole and how something will affect all aspects (PvE, PvP, dungeons, Trials, etc).
You know what would be good for the game?
If pvp worked during primetime.
You´d have 10 times the pvp playerbase if pvp wasn´t a freaking lagfest when you try to play it between 7 to 11pm on EU PC.
I´ll put it quite simple: Everyone i´ve played with in my guild since release. Literally everyone. Everyone of those people quit your game because it does not work during primetime in pvp.
Not because of anything else. Only because it does not work.
Over the past 3 years you have not been able to get your game to work during primetime.
How you can come here and have the audacity to tell people you´re doing anything for the betterment of the game in pvp is beyond me and i find that statement infuriating and straightup insulting (i know you´re not to blame for the state of affairs in general - i´m only blaming you for making the statement that there is anything done for the betterment of pvp - simply because it´s a lie).
Your game does not even work unless you play it in the morning.
Seriously
I know you're frustrated, but remember the statement I made earlier was in regards to ability changes and not performance. Now that said, we do have several performance improvements coming in Update 16 (Monday for PC) that will help improve the frame rate and loading screens - this includes Cyrodiil.
@ZOS_GinaBruno can you post the dev team analyzes for the test with no CP campaigns?
@Bashev @ZOS_GinaBruno
Unfortunately something like that needs to be tested on live. While they can test it on their end, it will be using their computers, and not the hundreds of various systems that are used by the player base.
This is something that is near impossible to test on the PTS, and must be pushed to live with easy access to rollback if it doesn't work. Simply put tests like this need large volumes of data and user stories to accurately test, which the PTS isn't able to provide.
I was talking about the double ap event on live that we had 6 momths ago. Zos didnt publish any results.
Probably because they don't even know what the results mean. Let alone how to fix it.0 -
Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »...we look at the big picture to see what needs to be done for the betterment of the game as a whole and how something will affect all aspects (PvE, PvP, dungeons, Trials, etc).
You know what would be good for the game?
If pvp worked during primetime.
You´d have 10 times the pvp playerbase if pvp wasn´t a freaking lagfest when you try to play it between 7 to 11pm on EU PC.
I´ll put it quite simple: Everyone i´ve played with in my guild since release. Literally everyone. Everyone of those people quit your game because it does not work during primetime in pvp.
Not because of anything else. Only because it does not work.
Over the past 3 years you have not been able to get your game to work during primetime.
How you can come here and have the audacity to tell people you´re doing anything for the betterment of the game in pvp is beyond me and i find that statement infuriating and straightup insulting (i know you´re not to blame for the state of affairs in general - i´m only blaming you for making the statement that there is anything done for the betterment of pvp - simply because it´s a lie).
Your game does not even work unless you play it in the morning.
Seriously
I know you're frustrated, but remember the statement I made earlier was in regards to ability changes and not performance. Now that said, we do have several performance improvements coming in Update 16 (Monday for PC) that will help improve the frame rate and loading screens - this includes Cyrodiil.
What ever happened to the PvP adjustments/improvements response you promised in the Alliance War subforum? It's been 3+ years of the same old "performance improvements are coming" and they either don't come or it isn't articulated what those performance improvements were supposed to be. I understand you don't control the former, but presumably you do the latter.
Early this year Firor made the big "We understand PvP performance is unacceptable, changes are coming" statement and there haven't been any significant changes (certainly, no significant improvements) and we're almost into 2018.
I know you don't control the actual improvements but you are the mouthpiece for the company. What exactly is going on? Why can't we ever get a straight answer on Cyrodiil? Why do we get promised that we'll get more information in "a few days" and then that information never comes?
Edited by Kilandros on October 20, 2017 5:50PMInvictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT2 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »...we look at the big picture to see what needs to be done for the betterment of the game as a whole and how something will affect all aspects (PvE, PvP, dungeons, Trials, etc).
You know what would be good for the game?
If pvp worked during primetime.
You´d have 10 times the pvp playerbase if pvp wasn´t a freaking lagfest when you try to play it between 7 to 11pm on EU PC.
I´ll put it quite simple: Everyone i´ve played with in my guild since release. Literally everyone. Everyone of those people quit your game because it does not work during primetime in pvp.
Not because of anything else. Only because it does not work.
Over the past 3 years you have not been able to get your game to work during primetime.
How you can come here and have the audacity to tell people you´re doing anything for the betterment of the game in pvp is beyond me and i find that statement infuriating and straightup insulting (i know you´re not to blame for the state of affairs in general - i´m only blaming you for making the statement that there is anything done for the betterment of pvp - simply because it´s a lie).
Your game does not even work unless you play it in the morning.
Seriously
I know you're frustrated, but remember the statement I made earlier was in regards to ability changes and not performance. Now that said, we do have several performance improvements coming in Update 16 (Monday for PC) that will help improve the frame rate and loading screens - this includes Cyrodiil.
What ever happened to the PvP adjustments/improvements response you promised in the Alliance War subforum? It's been 3+ years of the same old "performance improvements are coming" and they either don't come or it isn't articulated what those performance improvements were supposed to be. I understand you don't control the former, but presumably you do the latter.
Early this year Firor made the big "We understand PvP performance is unacceptable, changes are coming" statement and there haven't been any significant changes (certainly, no significant improvements) and we're almost into 2018.
I know you don't control the actual improvements but you are the mouthpiece for the company. What exactly is going on? Why can't we ever get a straight answer on Cyrodiil? Why do we get promised that we'll get more information in "a few days" and then that information never comes?
Firor did mention it would be a slow process and to be as patient as possible.
Judging that cyro is free, resources are lower than normal to do the changes that would have been done when the game first launched.
We just have to wait and see on Monday. BG's help with the wait, and I used to hate BG's till i realized i never lag in them.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
Fuxo✭✭✭✭They know that the problem with PvP is in the networking code. That's why we have AoE caps. It'there to make sure that only a limited number of player connections is involved in the communication of an event. It still does not help since a lot of events must be broadcasted to all the players involved.
Another problem is that everything needs to go through the servers as well, otherwise cheating would prevail. At launch, this was not the case and had to be added, which caused the performance to drop dramatically. They had to decrease population caps severely and it still is not enough.
I am afraid the only solution is to completely rework the underlying networking code and I am pretty sure that's not in the financial plans.
Battlegrounds is something that ZOS envisioned as an alternative to open world PvP. However, there are so many games that offer a similar small PvP gameplay.
The massive open world PvP is something that is pretty unique and has alot of potential. It's a shame ZOS neglects it. Maybe there is a way to monetize it in a form of nice skins for sieges, guild banners or even guild keeps via crown store? No more circling around IC, instead players would visit other parts of cyrodiil and sack enemy guild keeps. Just an idea.
1 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »ZoS does listen to our feedback. That doesn't mean that if ZoS chooses not to implement your feedback, they ignored it.
Taking your frustrations out on Gina over issues she has zero control over is a pretty crappy thing to do.
To be honest, she could at the very least tell us what's going on - isn't that what community managers do?
For example:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/376277/is-miats-add-on-cheating-to-you/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/374249/zenimax-restrict-your-api/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/308971/miats-pvp-alerts-addon/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/375200/ban-addons-in-pvp/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/376334/would-you-like-add-ons-disabled-for-pvp/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/363016/so-miats-pvp-addon-can-detect-stealth-players-even-when-they-are-in-stealth-state/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/376007/interview-with-miat-lets-talk-add-ons-cheating-and-q-a/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/322527/the-addons-cheats-that-allow-you-to-dodge-perfectly/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/371550/rampant-cheating-in-pvp-what-is-being-done-about-it-zos/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4485065#Comment_4485065
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/369568/should-miats-attack-alert-be-allowed/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/368871/add-on-request-miats-pvp-pump-fake#latest
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/369455/addons-detecting-attacks-from-stealth/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/360442/miat-addon/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/311028/miats-addon-new-meta
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/360432/why-is-miats-hack-still-around/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/358293/what-add-ons-are-border-line-cheating-to-you/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/369455/addons-detecting-attacks-from-stealth/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/343700/so-zos-are-you-going-to-do-something-w-miats-pvp-addon
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/343177/miat-add-on-stealth-detection
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/340047/remove-incoming-projectile-api-notification-please/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/de/discussion/333501/miats-pvp-addon/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/320643/so-why-is-miats-hack-add-on-still-active
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/319348/miat-hack-add-on
...etc
Almost a year and all we've got is:ZOS_GinaBruno wrote:Hey guys, just letting you know that we have seen and read this thread, and have brought it to the team's attention.
What's being done about it?
Is this being fixed, or are you just leaving it be & hoping these threads stop appearing?
Communication is important.
That's a lot of Miat add-on threads
I'm not an expert of the hierarchy of occupations in Zenimax so correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't Gina just pass on the information given to her by the people who actually develop the game and make decisions? Does Gina have the authority to communicate the sort of definitive and unequivocal company statement with regard's to Miat's add-on that you seek?
If the answers are yes and then no, i.e., she's just the conveyor of information, then I think it crappy to take out frustrations on her. Just my opinion.
This is no way excuses the lack of meaningful communication on the part of Zenimax.Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.3 -
rhapsodious✭✭✭✭✭
✭Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »ZoS does listen to our feedback. That doesn't mean that if ZoS chooses not to implement your feedback, they ignored it.
Taking your frustrations out on Gina over issues she has zero control over is a pretty crappy thing to do.
To be honest, she could at the very least tell us what's going on - isn't that what community managers do?
For example:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/376277/is-miats-add-on-cheating-to-you/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/374249/zenimax-restrict-your-api/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/308971/miats-pvp-alerts-addon/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/375200/ban-addons-in-pvp/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/376334/would-you-like-add-ons-disabled-for-pvp/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/363016/so-miats-pvp-addon-can-detect-stealth-players-even-when-they-are-in-stealth-state/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/376007/interview-with-miat-lets-talk-add-ons-cheating-and-q-a/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/322527/the-addons-cheats-that-allow-you-to-dodge-perfectly/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/371550/rampant-cheating-in-pvp-what-is-being-done-about-it-zos/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4485065#Comment_4485065
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/369568/should-miats-attack-alert-be-allowed/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/368871/add-on-request-miats-pvp-pump-fake#latest
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/369455/addons-detecting-attacks-from-stealth/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/360442/miat-addon/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/311028/miats-addon-new-meta
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/360432/why-is-miats-hack-still-around/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/358293/what-add-ons-are-border-line-cheating-to-you/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/369455/addons-detecting-attacks-from-stealth/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/343700/so-zos-are-you-going-to-do-something-w-miats-pvp-addon
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/343177/miat-add-on-stealth-detection
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/340047/remove-incoming-projectile-api-notification-please/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/de/discussion/333501/miats-pvp-addon/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/320643/so-why-is-miats-hack-add-on-still-active
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/319348/miat-hack-add-on
...etc
Almost a year and all we've got is:ZOS_GinaBruno wrote:Hey guys, just letting you know that we have seen and read this thread, and have brought it to the team's attention.
What's being done about it?
Is this being fixed, or are you just leaving it be & hoping these threads stop appearing?
Communication is important.
That's a lot of Miat add-on threads
I'm not an expert of the hierarchy of occupations in Zenimax so correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't Gina just pass on the information given to her by the people who actually develop the game and make decisions? Does Gina have the authority to communicate the sort of definitive and unequivocal company statement with regard's to Miat's add-on that you seek?
If the answers are yes and then no, i.e., she's just the conveyor of information, then I think it crappy to take out frustrations on her. Just my opinion.
This is no way excuses the lack of meaningful communication on the part of Zenimax.
I'm not Gina, but that's my understanding of it. She, Jessica, Kai, and to a smaller extent the forum moderators (I believe) act as the filter to get the meaningful comments to the right team, to escalate concerns where needed, and act as a liaison between what the developers/project managers want to communicate and what the forum hears. So Gina can tell some guy on the art team "hey, this armor is clipping weird", and link to the forums thread/a ticket, but she doesn't have any insight into the cause of the issue, the nature of the fix, or when it will actually get fixed.
No matter what your frustrations with the /game/, the CMs are the wrong people to blame. The communication, yes, you have some merit there (though you should still be polite and not act like Gina or even Wrobel personally killed your dog).
I work in software development (admittedly, probably why I'm very sympathetic to the developers), and at every company I've been at, there's been items in the backlog that have been there for months. Usually we're good at prioritizing issues or optimizing the customer experience, but some things like net code or performance enhancements are a complete mess and not something you just "fix". Far-reaching decisions like API changes or taking an official stance on unofficial content is pretty high up the tree, as far as who has the power to make those decisions.
Simply put, if a CM doesn't have an answer to give you, they won't give you an answer. It's both easier and more efficient to just not say anything than be like "yo, I still got nothin". The amount of time it takes to get an answer could be drastically decreased, and it's totally frustrating, but them's the breaks.2 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭rhapsodious wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »ZoS does listen to our feedback. That doesn't mean that if ZoS chooses not to implement your feedback, they ignored it.
Taking your frustrations out on Gina over issues she has zero control over is a pretty crappy thing to do.
To be honest, she could at the very least tell us what's going on - isn't that what community managers do?
For example:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/376277/is-miats-add-on-cheating-to-you/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/374249/zenimax-restrict-your-api/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/308971/miats-pvp-alerts-addon/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/375200/ban-addons-in-pvp/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/376334/would-you-like-add-ons-disabled-for-pvp/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/363016/so-miats-pvp-addon-can-detect-stealth-players-even-when-they-are-in-stealth-state/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/376007/interview-with-miat-lets-talk-add-ons-cheating-and-q-a/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/322527/the-addons-cheats-that-allow-you-to-dodge-perfectly/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/371550/rampant-cheating-in-pvp-what-is-being-done-about-it-zos/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4485065#Comment_4485065
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/369568/should-miats-attack-alert-be-allowed/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/368871/add-on-request-miats-pvp-pump-fake#latest
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/369455/addons-detecting-attacks-from-stealth/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/360442/miat-addon/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/311028/miats-addon-new-meta
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/360432/why-is-miats-hack-still-around/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/358293/what-add-ons-are-border-line-cheating-to-you/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/369455/addons-detecting-attacks-from-stealth/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/343700/so-zos-are-you-going-to-do-something-w-miats-pvp-addon
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/343177/miat-add-on-stealth-detection
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/340047/remove-incoming-projectile-api-notification-please/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/de/discussion/333501/miats-pvp-addon/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/320643/so-why-is-miats-hack-add-on-still-active
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/319348/miat-hack-add-on
...etc
Almost a year and all we've got is:ZOS_GinaBruno wrote:Hey guys, just letting you know that we have seen and read this thread, and have brought it to the team's attention.
What's being done about it?
Is this being fixed, or are you just leaving it be & hoping these threads stop appearing?
Communication is important.
That's a lot of Miat add-on threads
I'm not an expert of the hierarchy of occupations in Zenimax so correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't Gina just pass on the information given to her by the people who actually develop the game and make decisions? Does Gina have the authority to communicate the sort of definitive and unequivocal company statement with regard's to Miat's add-on that you seek?
If the answers are yes and then no, i.e., she's just the conveyor of information, then I think it crappy to take out frustrations on her. Just my opinion.
This is no way excuses the lack of meaningful communication on the part of Zenimax.
I'm not Gina, but that's my understanding of it. She, Jessica, Kai, and to a smaller extent the forum moderators (I believe) act as the filter to get the meaningful comments to the right team, to escalate concerns where needed, and act as a liaison between what the developers/project managers want to communicate and what the forum hears. So Gina can tell some guy on the art team "hey, this armor is clipping weird", and link to the forums thread/a ticket, but she doesn't have any insight into the cause of the issue, the nature of the fix, or when it will actually get fixed.
No matter what your frustrations with the /game/, the CMs are the wrong people to blame. The communication, yes, you have some merit there (though you should still be polite and not act like Gina or even Wrobel personally killed your dog).
I work in software development (admittedly, probably why I'm very sympathetic to the developers), and at every company I've been at, there's been items in the backlog that have been there for months. Usually we're good at prioritizing issues or optimizing the customer experience, but some things like net code or performance enhancements are a complete mess and not something you just "fix". Far-reaching decisions like API changes or taking an official stance on unofficial content is pretty high up the tree, as far as who has the power to make those decisions.
Simply put, if a CM doesn't have an answer to give you, they won't give you an answer. It's both easier and more efficient to just not say anything than be like "yo, I still got nothin". The amount of time it takes to get an answer could be drastically decreased, and it's totally frustrating, but them's the breaks.
I don't work in software, but I have a light fixture product submittal the contractor sat on for months. They decided to make themselves look good and offer a substitution on our specifications when they noticed the products would have shipped after the project was finished. We told them to GTFO and give us what the client payed for.
Communication and sitting on updates varies for each profession lol.
But I agree, we just need to be a bit patient
Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
Onefrkncrzypope✭✭✭✭✭
✭@ZOS_GinaBruno
First off thank you for the responses. I have some friendly suggestions that will help everyone including you.
1. Do not wait until there are four or five forum threads cursing the developers for not listening. Respond to comment early because it will hush the insurrection quickly and will keep thing more civil for y'all.
2. Responding as proof to feedback in threads lamenting the developer isn't really providing the feedback we want. Responding to the people by answer that ya'll do listen isn't showing that ZoS is really listening. Analogy: when the teacher calls you name at the start of class and you say here doesn't mean you learned anything that day.
3. Probably either work on responses to the community or continue to be silent. Worbel sounded like a teenager(sorry) with the response to stonefist and petrify. Analogy: Oh you don't like oatmeal raisin cookies? Here. I'll just eat it and you will have no cookie. ZoS isn't the customer, we can be total fools ya'll can't.
I hope that you understand that I'm not trying to be rude. I just want answers.-Immortal Redeemer-
-Extinguisher of Flames-
-Gryphon Heart-
-Potato-
If I edited a post, it was for spelling. It is always because of spelling....2 -
DHale✭✭✭✭✭
✭I am still waiting for the patch that reverses all previous nerfs where DK jump into keeps and actually reflect projectiles and drop standards that actually do damage, Templars with blinding flashes.... and major mending, nightblades with cloak that actually worked, sorcs that streaked out of fights and kept going all the way to the part of Cyrodil where they hide the Starbucks.Sorcerna, proud beta sorc. RIP April 2014 to May 31 2016 DArk Brotherhood. Out of retirement for negates and encases. Sorcerna will be going back into retirement to be my main crafter Fall 2018. Because an 8 k shield is f ing useless. Died because of baddies on the forum. Too much qq too little pew pew. 16 AD 2 DC. 0 EP cause they bad, CP 2300 plus 18 level 50 toons. NA, PC, Grey Host#SORCLIVESMATTER actually they don’t or they wouldn’t keep getting nerfed constantly.1 -
DoonerSeraph✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »ZoS does listen to our feedback. That doesn't mean that if ZoS chooses not to implement your feedback, they ignored it.
Taking your frustrations out on Gina over issues she has zero control over is a pretty crappy thing to do.
Sure, CMs have no impact over any decision made by ZOS's dev team. But there were threads (especially your very good threads on templar issues) that were only met with dead silence. Is that fair? You were as constructive as a non-employee of ZOS could be, yet your feedback was completely ignored. I do understand that not implementing everything that is said here does not mean that they dont listwn, but if they dont even answer well made threads that are almost an essay about problems that need fixing and things that are out of balance, what kind of thread you expect to be read? It would be much better if they at least posted something at all like "Points A, B and C we agree and are looking to fix then, we are meeting problems at B and C because of F and G causes. We dont agree with your vision on X and Y because of Z". They always talk about some vision they have for the game.I wonder what vision is it? We dont know, that makes people feel that dont listen to the playerbase at all, and they dont have a vision for the future of the game aside from reskinning mounts for Crown Crates.
I'm sorry but thats just how I (and I think others) feel about it.
EDIT: Also the "Z" symbol on the threads is somewhat frustrating, I personally dont care about a forum moderator announcing that they removed some post or corrected another, that "Z" mark on the thread should be reserved only for CMs and devs, so we could see actual answers there.Edited by DoonerSeraph on October 20, 2017 10:51PM1 -
FlamingBeard✭✭✭✭✭A lot of people -- namely those of us who posted in the Templar and Dragonknight class-specific feedback threads -- are feeling pretty defeated at this point.
There was a lot of general consensus on more than a few class-related balance issues, and no responses were made in respect to any of the suggestions for improvement.
The comments Wrobel made in the early stages of this PTS cycle left most of us dumbfounded as they had pretty much nothing to do with any of the discussions that had taken place prior in each of those threads.1 -
Dorrino✭✭✭✭✭Gina.
The idea is very simple. It's not sufficient that devs read the threads.
We need devs to actually reply to those threads.
Your company approach forces one-sided communication: players post stuff - devs read stuff.
But devs almost never even acknowledge that they read the stuff.
Community has almost no idea about game's direction, nor dev team stance on various issues with the game.
This only promotes hysteria and more and more purely emotional threads whose only purpose is to shout in devs ears - TALK TO US.
I don't see how this state of things can help making the community to feel happy and secure about the game.Edited by Dorrino on October 21, 2017 12:34AM5 -
kyle.wilson✭✭✭✭✭
✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »This isn't correct. The developers do come on the forums almost daily, and they do read the feedback threads we create when we're active on the PTS; we've said this many times in the past. Also, Jess and I (as the Community Managers) frequently bring threads to the attention of devs to make sure they've seen it, and many times, they already have. The moderators are responsible for removing posts that break our forum rules.
Just like community policing helps in cities, the devs having more communications on the forums would help calm much of the concern.
Most of the devs are on here daily, buts its to lurk. If they aren't seen, are they really there?
Outside of the community managers and some sound engineers, the last time a dev posted anything was Sept 29, and that was Wrobel.
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Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Dorrino
You of all should realize the time it takes to respond to threads, as you yourself reply to the majority of concerns voiced against your addon (as shortsighted as some of those complaints may be).
Imagine that you as well had to respond to tenfold as many posts (and this is being frugal) that all pertain to your 9-5 job, but each post a different aspect. Do you respond to each and every thread?
You may say: Yes.
Now that the community knows that they will get Dev responses, do they create more threads with their "game-changing" ideas, with the expectation that they get to have discourse with the development team? I can assure you, that they will (as I am guilty of that myself), even if the ideas may be considered ludicrous from your point of view. Which creates a never ending cycle of more and more community input.
If the devs cannot handle the amount of input from the community, and they "apparently" begin to slow down responses, does the community complain? Yes, yes they will.
Will the average forum user understand when the devs say they don't have the resources to do such a thing as responding to every thread? No! The devs are made of Money! they can hire more people! They can't be working all that hard! Personal attacks, etc...
So now every time they comment to the public, while there are some people who are grateful, there are others who are just overall toxins, eating away at any desire to communicate with the forums outside of just observing.
Of course, that's just speculation. Could be that there is a NDA on most employees that's now just being enforced to prevent any stakeholders losing money from a loose-jawed dev that may say there is a problem with something. And now all outgoing communications have to be vetted, and its just a waste of time putting out any status update posts. Who knows.
Edited by Avran_Sylt on October 21, 2017 3:11AM0 -
kyle.wilson✭✭✭✭✭
✭@ZOS_GinaBruno
With the outrage over an API that pretty much allows cheating, I am surprised that @ZOS_BrianWheeler, @ZOS_RichLambert, and @ZOS_Wrobel haven't had any comments on the forum for a while
I'm basing this off the dev tracker.
Wrobel's last post was Sept 29
Rich Lambert's was Aug 14
and
Brain Wheeler's was Aug 18
That's not engagement by any stretch of the imagination.
@ZOS_MattFiror last active Feb 27.Edited by kyle.wilson on October 21, 2017 3:20AM6
