Community - Suggestion for better Community Input to the Devs

Kilandros

Malic wrote: »

But its rarely meaningful input. Look im no zos fan boy, im a PVP player they havent done a whole lot for me, lol.

That said most of the stuff posted on the forums is meaningless drivel. "fix the lag" as if for the last 2
years they werent painful aware of it and likely would have if they could. "I want better balance" yes because thats never their goal and they never strive for it.

Look what you see is what you get here. They all seem like really nice people and overall ESO is a great game there is a lot of great things in it. The short comings have been vetted pretty thoroughly on the PTS forums and communicated clearly Remember when they had all the streamers go in and test morrowind?

You remember the result? one is left still streaming the game alcast. Feng does some but much less. That should have been a clear message to all of you.

Now you want to whine about cosmetics, the shade of orange or the price of an elk mount? Thats where we are at. Not much else is going to change, lol.

Nice people, capacity reached.

I think the base-game development is simply limited by budget. ZOS isn't financing big changes to base-game classes, to Cyrodiil, etc. All of the budget is directed toward DLCs and Crown Store. Wheeler, our PvP lead, is working pretty much exclusively on BGs because they're behind a pay gate.

I agree it should be pretty telling that despite so many streamers being invited to test Morrowind, that "Chapter" caused most of them to quit. I don't know why ZOS is seemingly unconcerned with that, but they probably should be concerned. Deltia and I were guildies for a long time and he's got me pretty hyped to play Destiny 2 with him.

It's going to be interesting to see what happens after Tuesday. I suspect ESO is gonna lose another large chunk of players to Destiny 2. Eventually--I hope--ZOS will realize that they need to start attracting players via gameplay/balance/performance improvements and not just theme park DLCs and CS offerings. We'll see.

Aedaryl

Anti_Virus wrote: »

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Aedaryl wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno

First I would like to thank you for your input communication from the devs is super important to me personally.

Now I want to say something that frustrates me with the devs:

What is your vision for the DragonKnight class?
A while back although I don't remember the thread I vividly recall your response to someone who requested that DKs get a class execute you said that the class shouldn't get one because its already a strong tank or something to that wording.

The magicka variant is in a weird spot abilities costing magicka synergies best with a staff but the melee range of these high damage abilities forces you in melee range which is not what you want to be in with a staff. So you run with One hand and Shield and that has no synergy with the magicka DK, the passives and ability benefit the stam version 10x more than the magic version not to mention sustaining with this weapon is bad on mDK since it restores stamina not magicka.

Conversely stam DK is in a stranger spot because of the lack of class abilities two poison dots and a poison ultimate, No class spammables forces the stam DK into weapon skill lines and at that only two for damage purposes Dual Wield and Two Hander or just a tank, the lack of a class based heal effective for stam dk etc.

So again what is your vision for the DK? Do you want the class to be a tank? If so why nerf block builds? You guys stated that you want all class skill lines to follow the warden class example if so how are you going to approach it? Will Dks get more damage abilites or improvements to more existing ones?The Warden class abilites put the DK ones to shame, like Shimmering shield vs Scales in which shimmering shield not only has a significantly lower cost than scales but returns magicka AND generates ultimate, warden Ice ultimate vs DK Standard etc.

You don't how dk work at all.

First, saying melee range is not what you want with a staff is false. You can play melee with staff and nothing forbidden you to use it, there is also half of the skills that are melee skills : wall of element, pulsar and eyes of the storm.

If magicka dk don't use dampen magicka and healing ward as defense, like sorc or nb, it's because S&B synergise very well with magicka DK. Battle roar with helping hands give you stamina back, and Iron skin give you more block mitigation. Also, having too pieces as weapon make you able to have 5/5/2 set up. The synergy is here, and morrowing buffed the magicka DK ability to perma block.

For stam DK, it's not the only stamina class without a spammable and a heal (hello stam sorc). Also, you forget S&B as a good damage weapon skill line, have you already try the light attack/heroic slash/bash combo with some reverbating bash for stun and debuff heal ? It's powerfull and synergise well with stam dk. In fact, like every other stamina build, stam DK need to have 2h for rally, then he have the choice to use the defensive weapon, or one of the 2 offensive left.

If you think a S&B dk + 2h is necessery a tank build, then you should try it as a tanky DPS set up.

If you want to know what's ZoS vision, just look at the class and realise DK is a melee class build for tankiness and melee damage.

Before you comment take the time and read my post, it's a no brainer that the class is a melee tank but over the years the tank part and dmg has been stripped.

A melee class that has magicka cost abilites with the sustain nerfs heavy attacking and cost reduction is important and all the melee weapons are stam based which forces you into a staff for magicka sustain and in Light armor which is not beneficial in melee range since dampen magicka won't shield you from all dmg from a PvE perspective and in PVP light armor with get you killed pretty quick. Considering the high cost of mDK skills and low sustain of battle roar, it's not practical to wear light armor for survivalbility and only for damage yet the class is supposed to be a tank and that's why it has no execute ability.

SnB isn't a DPS skill line if that was the case it would be used in PVE dps builds it's a tank skill line set up SnB also works on a Stam Sorc, Stam NB, Stam Warden, and Stam templar but with the other classes with the exception if stam Sorc has class abilites/options that synergise with the class and give it uniqueness. NB/temp/warden/Sorc has a class AoE stam DK does not, Templar/Warden/NB has a class spammables DK and Sorc does not. Sure I can run SnB + 2h on DK but it works better on other class set ups like templar in which I have a class spammables and class AoE so I'm not forced to use other weapons to supplement class skills.

So what's your point? That Stam weapons work great on Stam DK? Well guess what they work better on other stam classes too! Also Stam Warden doesn't need a 2h for heals they have an entire skill tree dedicated to healing same with stam sorc( Hello Crit surge) and thus are alleviated from the need to use certain weapon skill lines.

What's make you choose a stam DK over a stam templar, a stam NB, a stam warden and a stam sorc is the fact that stam DK has better defense, due to blocking and associated passive.

You can't compare PvE and PvP, S&B is not used in PvE because PvE is all about dots and hightest tooltips. S&B is good damage when you cut anim it and because it has major healing debuff, stun, minor main and minor Heroism, all of that things sweet well for PvP, not PvE,

Magicka DK is hard for sustain, but it's possible, people do it very well, sure a bit help at that side wouldn't hurt, but when you speak it's like dk is not able to sustain at all. Try Shackle breaker/Desert Rose/Bloodspawn+ mage mundus, tri stat food for open world zerg and Shackle Breaker/lich/skoria + mage mundus , tri stat food for smallscale/duels. It works well.

Also, you can't only heal with surge alone, that's just not possible. You need rally.

Anti_Virus

Aedaryl wrote: »

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Anti_Virus wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno

First I would like to thank you for your input communication from the devs is super important to me personally.

Now I want to say something that frustrates me with the devs:

What is your vision for the DragonKnight class?
A while back although I don't remember the thread I vividly recall your response to someone who requested that DKs get a class execute you said that the class shouldn't get one because its already a strong tank or something to that wording.

The magicka variant is in a weird spot abilities costing magicka synergies best with a staff but the melee range of these high damage abilities forces you in melee range which is not what you want to be in with a staff. So you run with One hand and Shield and that has no synergy with the magicka DK, the passives and ability benefit the stam version 10x more than the magic version not to mention sustaining with this weapon is bad on mDK since it restores stamina not magicka.

Conversely stam DK is in a stranger spot because of the lack of class abilities two poison dots and a poison ultimate, No class spammables forces the stam DK into weapon skill lines and at that only two for damage purposes Dual Wield and Two Hander or just a tank, the lack of a class based heal effective for stam dk etc.

So again what is your vision for the DK? Do you want the class to be a tank? If so why nerf block builds? You guys stated that you want all class skill lines to follow the warden class example if so how are you going to approach it? Will Dks get more damage abilites or improvements to more existing ones?The Warden class abilites put the DK ones to shame, like Shimmering shield vs Scales in which shimmering shield not only has a significantly lower cost than scales but returns magicka AND generates ultimate, warden Ice ultimate vs DK Standard etc.

You don't how dk work at all.

First, saying melee range is not what you want with a staff is false. You can play melee with staff and nothing forbidden you to use it, there is also half of the skills that are melee skills : wall of element, pulsar and eyes of the storm.

If magicka dk don't use dampen magicka and healing ward as defense, like sorc or nb, it's because S&B synergise very well with magicka DK. Battle roar with helping hands give you stamina back, and Iron skin give you more block mitigation. Also, having too pieces as weapon make you able to have 5/5/2 set up. The synergy is here, and morrowing buffed the magicka DK ability to perma block.

For stam DK, it's not the only stamina class without a spammable and a heal (hello stam sorc). Also, you forget S&B as a good damage weapon skill line, have you already try the light attack/heroic slash/bash combo with some reverbating bash for stun and debuff heal ? It's powerfull and synergise well with stam dk. In fact, like every other stamina build, stam DK need to have 2h for rally, then he have the choice to use the defensive weapon, or one of the 2 offensive left.

If you think a S&B dk + 2h is necessery a tank build, then you should try it as a tanky DPS set up.

If you want to know what's ZoS vision, just look at the class and realise DK is a melee class build for tankiness and melee damage.

Before you comment take the time and read my post, it's a no brainer that the class is a melee tank but over the years the tank part and dmg has been stripped.

A melee class that has magicka cost abilites with the sustain nerfs heavy attacking and cost reduction is important and all the melee weapons are stam based which forces you into a staff for magicka sustain and in Light armor which is not beneficial in melee range since dampen magicka won't shield you from all dmg from a PvE perspective and in PVP light armor with get you killed pretty quick. Considering the high cost of mDK skills and low sustain of battle roar, it's not practical to wear light armor for survivalbility and only for damage yet the class is supposed to be a tank and that's why it has no execute ability.

SnB isn't a DPS skill line if that was the case it would be used in PVE dps builds it's a tank skill line set up SnB also works on a Stam Sorc, Stam NB, Stam Warden, and Stam templar but with the other classes with the exception if stam Sorc has class abilites/options that synergise with the class and give it uniqueness. NB/temp/warden/Sorc has a class AoE stam DK does not, Templar/Warden/NB has a class spammables DK and Sorc does not. Sure I can run SnB + 2h on DK but it works better on other class set ups like templar in which I have a class spammables and class AoE so I'm not forced to use other weapons to supplement class skills.

So what's your point? That Stam weapons work great on Stam DK? Well guess what they work better on other stam classes too! Also Stam Warden doesn't need a 2h for heals they have an entire skill tree dedicated to healing same with stam sorc( Hello Crit surge) and thus are alleviated from the need to use certain weapon skill lines.

What's make you choose a stam DK over a stam templar, a stam NB, a stam warden and a stam sorc is the fact that stam DK has better defense, due to blocking and associated passive.

You can't compare PvE and PvP, S&B is not used in PvE because PvE is all about dots and hightest tooltips. S&B is good damage when you cut anim it and because it has major healing debuff, stun, minor main and minor Heroism, all of that things sweet well for PvP, not PvE,

Magicka DK is hard for sustain, but it's possible, people do it very well, sure a bit help at that side wouldn't hurt, but when you speak it's like dk is not able to sustain at all. Try Shackle breaker/Desert Rose/Bloodspawn+ mage mundus, tri stat food for open world zerg and Shackle Breaker/lich/skoria + mage mundus , tri stat food for smallscale/duels. It works well.

Also, you can't only heal with surge alone, that's just not possible. You need rally.

This would've been true except the devs made blocking more cumbersome and and annoying to build for by increasing the cost and not allowing stam regen occur while blocking the only passive the DK has to synergise with block is the block mitigation passive and at that it's only 10% additional mitigation while blocking that's nothing compared to the synergy offered by other classes that utilize the same weapon.

Anti_Virus

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@Anti_Virus @Aedaryl

While it's nice to see good discussion between forum users, I would ask that in this thread you keep it on topic in regards to how the community should manage their expectations/discussions as a whole to the devs. Keeping it general in terms of asking about the vision for classes in the future is a good point.

However, if you wish to talk about DK's in specifics, please continue that conversation on this thread:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/376673/can-we-have-any-answer-to-the-state-vision-of-dks

Alright.

Bakkagami

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno

First off thank you for the responses. I have some friendly suggestions that will help everyone including you.

1. Do not wait until there are four or five forum threads cursing the developers for not listening. Respond to comment early because it will hush the insurrection quickly and will keep thing more civil for y'all.
2. Responding as proof to feedback in threads lamenting the developer isn't really providing the feedback we want. Responding to the people by answer that ya'll do listen isn't showing that ZoS is really listening. Analogy: when the teacher calls you name at the start of class and you say here doesn't mean you learned anything that day.
3. Probably either work on responses to the community or continue to be silent. Worbel sounded like a teenager(sorry) with the response to stonefist and petrify. Analogy: Oh you don't like oatmeal raisin cookies? Here. I'll just eat it and you will have no cookie. ZoS isn't the customer, we can be total fools ya'll can't.

I hope that you understand that I'm not trying to be rude. I just want answers.

(mostly to just your first point) While ideally i'd agree with you, in reality it's just not worth it for her (or anyone in a communications/PR department with even a moderate sized consumer base) to try to answer every little thread. For every one of these forum tears Gina wipes there's going to be a dozen more crying about the same thing the next day and another dozen with the exact opposite viewpoint. Having to wade through forum tears daily looking for the occasional informative or constructive comment is not a job I envy.