so... will now everyone change from HA to light and medium..?!?

Baconlad · October 2017

Medium by itself is not great for outnumbered. Well...it is the only thing to get major evasion from now cept NBs ofc, which helps. But outnumbered situations require passive mitigation, passive mitigation come from heavy armor, or in light armor with shields. Dodge rolling, while amazing for getting away from bad situations and with medium armor sprint speed is even better.

Now they have introduced a few sets that give passive mitigation while in light armor, wizards riposte, impreg, transmutation crafted defensive sets. As for medium armor i think many players should go medium, there is atleast one armor set i think will be amazing for medium builds, armor master, seeing how a medium build without shuffle is not doing it right. So there you have a defense set that give passive mitigation similar to heavy armor, you get more crit and weapon damage from medium passives than in heavy. Plus all the speed and dodge roll bonuses and regen from medium. I think a setup like this would be much better than heavy anyway.

Building into my magic templar, ive been in light armor for all of 2017 (except for my shortlived blazplar...RIP). Since magplars dont build well with shields, ive equipped wizards riposte and before that transmutation ( i still run trans when i want two defensive sets), it gives me awesome passive mitigation, and allows me to be in light armor andbget all the awesome benefits of light over heavy.

Having said that, i think zeni would do well to bake into medium armor a bit more passive mitigation, by giving minor evasion for a small period say 5 seconds after dodge roll. Then decreasing the cost of dodge roll (since its much easier to cut through dodge these days) and giving maybe 5% dodge chance back to major evasion. This way you could dodge roll and (even in three damage sets) get a bit more pssive mitigation than you would have now, and also rely on your main defense, dodge roll more often. They could also bake in the 15% dodge chance to medium armor dodge rolls for 5 seconds or maybe 3, then give medium armor vigor as an only for them skill, theb give heavy armor a burst heal in their armor tree...since their main defense is healing as according to passives.

Another thing to consider with medium for passive mitigation...maybe stop equipping all damage weapons and put on a sword and shield on ur defense bar? Zeni would have to give major brutality to all classes in this case...maybe through a non gimick skill in fighters guild.

Thanks for hearing me out

Baconlad · October 2017

Im going to correct myself here...as above i wrote that medium armor master would be better in medium than in heavy armor...i see the real issue here is fury and ravager (i think ravager. The set that gives weap damage on proc?) Having to get rid of one of them is not going to kill your build...but it hurts, i get that...i think fury is fine, but ravager for what it does should maybe be a medium armor set (but they might not be able to do this...it would kill the other weapon damage procs from other medium armor sets) (maybe just get rid of ravager XD hell i dobt know) If they do that they need to give wrath back though....ugh im not a dev i dont know why i keep trying to fix the game XD

nCats · October 2017

Depends entirely. Magicka, hard question, they have good light defensive sets. Stamina... some specific builds like Fury-proccers will suffer. Other builds who did not rely on wrath and have purify (stamplars mostly) or some other mobility (stamsorcs) may keep heavy for one reason or another.

Lexxypwns · October 2017

Akinos wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

"this changes nothing" crowd = Stam heavy user

"Why should I pick anything other than Light?" = Magicka crowd

Except DK must run heavy. Temps are more flexible in that area

Heavy helps when you want to be tankier, most definitely not a must though.
Light armor is better when you want to end people faster. I normally run light armor atm, and heavy when the situation calls for it, like when I'm in my guild group and we're extremely outnumbered. If i get bursted down by a smaller group, like 3-5 people while in light, i'll sometimes come back and fight them again in my heavy set, especially if I have the damage to kill them, which I generally do.

Light and heavy are both situational, neither are gonna be good for everything. Anybody that doesn't carry a heavy and light set on them at all times should reconsider how they play.

With all due respect, There's no situation where an offensive mageblade build should be in 5 heavy. It is too easy to recoup the resists from heavy then to recoup light armor passives.

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Light has been better than heavy, passive wise, since the sharpened nerf.

There's simply no efficient way to recoup the penetration that light armor provides back into a build without sacrificing too many other things. If you're a magika build and you've been running heavy you've been seriously gimping your damage just for some tankiness you can pick up elsewhere.

Medium still has at least 1 really bad combat passive(sneak speed) and 1 that's less desirable (dodge roll cost reduction) because of several nerfs to the defensive mechanic it promotes.

Well, in a certain way that's true - but keep in mind that penetration is useless vs dmg shields, where as heavy armor Wrath passive (and any further damage you could pick up by not having to use a defensive set) still work against them.

That said, with Wrath passive gone there's no real alternative to light armor anymore, it'll just deal better damage in every scenario.

keep in mind that if you're having trouble killing builds whose primary defense is damage shields that light armor will actually do more than heavy to help you. This is simply because the burst available in light is such that you can routinely melt people within the window of a single, well-timed, CC. Whereas, in heavy, you have to allow wrath to charge and still need another big damage set to approach the damage light armor has.

If you're trying to brute force damage shields down in 2017 that's a YOU issue not a question of whether light is stronger than heavy. For reference, wrath adds ~2% damage and concentration adds ~8% and that's not even counting the crit passives. A typical damage set is going to give you about 5-7% damage. Light was already superior in every scenario because nobody keeps a 100% uptime on shields and as soon as you hit that health pool light armor adds like 13% more damage than heavy. The key to killing someone who is relying on damage shield for their defense is a well timed CC+burst combo as their shield drops either from pressure or from timing.

Well, I've always done better with heavy armor on my magplar than with light - granted I haven't played my magplar much recently.

There aren't much good, reliable CC options for a magplar (nor a lot of burst damage for a sweeps focused build) which might have a lot to do with it - it's always been important to be able to pressure down those shields efficiently with sweeps & DoTs on magplar.

I can see how light armor should typically be better for other classes (& Dark Flare magplar builds) though.

Not that it matters after next patch, light will just be better for all builds

Destructive reach is the best CC option for magplar btw and imo its the best CC in the game that doesn't break block.

Yeah, it's good - but requires using destro staff.

I don't think destro staff synergizes well with templar because the damage is such a mix between AoE (Sweeps) & single target (Unstable Core, Purifying Light, Destructive Reach/Clench, Vampire's Bane), meaning you can't feasibly get the full benefit from Ancient Knowledge passive.

I just feel DW/S&B is the way to go for the classic Sweeps magplar (rev bash can act as a decent CC)- I'd definitely use destro on a Flare build tho.

I mean, any destro, including weaves is better damage than DW by a mile and my personal experience with magplar I rarely cast more than a couple sweeps in a row. Your DoTs have low duration and so does PL, you just don't have time to spam your spammable a whole lot and you really do lose a lot of pressure from weaving. DW or not you'll never kill good players without PL explosions and the best way to fill them up is on a destro build.

That's not even mentioning you can run ele drain and use the good morph of rune that gives minor protection+vitality instead of the regen one. And also increases your damage to levels a DW build can't dream of

SnB back bar a must though imo

The bolded part is definitely not true...

On my Dual Weild Magplar, I have a burst combo that I use to kill good players and Purifying Light isn't part of the equation:

1) Immovable PoT
2) Structured Entropy...
3) Toppling Charge...
4) Devouring Swarm...
5) Puncturing Sweeps until dead...

I said good players. A snare ensure you don't land enough sweeps to be lethal. A good player will never die to "puncturing sweeps until dead" considering you actually have 0 burst in your "burst combo" and you give them CC immunity at the start of it before they're taking pressure

Also, you'd do more damage with a destro in that situation since you'd add ~6k damage from light weaves, plus you'd proc your glyph or poison from range ensuring they'll be ~5k health lower when they eat the CC.

Furthermore, pretending like PL wouldn't be a superior replacement to toppling in that rotation is a colossal joke. Pot-light attack-degen(the better morph, btw)-light attack-PL-light-reflective-light-bats-light-sweeps-light-CC-light-PL burst. A combo like that is much more likely to work on good players since it isn't just a prayer that you don't get snared/rooted and get your sweeps kited while your bats do minimal damage alone.

@Trashs1 I've already started switching all my stam build to medium. It's not that I think the wrath passive ruins heavy it's simply that when I play stam I like mobility and medium is simply outright better for kiting next patch

@Baconlad you can wear fury, 7th, or ravager in medium easily. Use health jewels, heavy chest and legs. Then use lava foot soup to add back the stamina you're missing from robust jewels and add more recovery than dubious adds as well. I played with 7th+back bar alch+Slime+2shackle dw last night for a bit on my stamden. Hit a 12k SA in BGs

TBois · October 2017

I'll be sticking with heavy. I swapped shuffle for rapid maneuvers these past couple of weeks in preparation, and with a little adjustment i havent had much issue with sustain. As long as they dont make any further changes my stam sorc will stay in heavy. I would love to switch to medium for extra mobility, but for me, fighting outnumbered, soul assault and birds make that switch a no go.

CyrusArya · October 2017

Sorc and Stamplar I will keep in light and medium, as I have for a long time.

My bleed blade however I will keep in heavy and am very excited to it play next patch. The nerfs to heavy do not deter me at all, and in fact I think my build got stronger. In between dropping shuffle/slotting momentum and a few gear changes, it actually feels stronger on live. Let alone next patch when other classes are forced to drop heavy armor or rally.

Among the many things that make stamblade a real winner in this upcoming patch are that fact that this class can still run evasion in heavy, and that cloak+forward momentum has incredible synergy so long as you can get healing form other sources.

Emmagoldman · October 2017

I love how dramatic people are. A loss of 200 dmg at 7 ha is "gutted". They are trying to fix tanks that can also deal heavy damage.

This is a light nerf, the sky is not falling, tin foil hats away

Waffennacht · October 2017

Emmagoldman wrote: »

I love how dramatic people are. A loss of 200 dmg at 7 ha is "gutted". They are trying to fix tanks that can also deal heavy damage.

This is a light nerf, the sky is not falling, tin foil hats away

It's reminiscent of the block cost "nerf" like you said, it serves to do little to change the actual "issue," yest still manages to alienate fringe builds that relied on small buffs like wrath. Again, it just serves to kill diversity and leans players into running meta sets.

Adenoma · October 2017

@Emmagoldman , I think it's more that people are worried about compromising on running rally vs. forward momentum to lose a burst heal if they stick in heavy.

I'll be testing 5x Tava's, 5x Fury, 2x Blood Spawn in medium armor S&B/S&B for stamwarden in no-CP. It seems pretty strong even with the cost increase of trees.

Brutusmax1mus · October 2017

Waffennacht wrote: »

Emmagoldman wrote: »

I love how dramatic people are. A loss of 200 dmg at 7 ha is "gutted". They are trying to fix tanks that can also deal heavy damage.

This is a light nerf, the sky is not falling, tin foil hats away

It's reminiscent of the block cost "nerf" like you said, it serves to do little to change the actual "issue," yest still manages to alienate fringe builds that relied on small buffs like wrath. Again, it just serves to kill diversity and leans players into running meta sets.

Exactly.

My pvp healers, support, and one of my Templars set ups got nerfed more than the thing they were trying to address. Not sure why this was the change.

Lexxypwns · October 2017

Adenoma wrote: »

@Emmagoldman , I think it's more that people are worried about compromising on running rally vs. forward momentum to lose a burst heal if they stick in heavy.

I'll be testing 5x Tava's, 5x Fury, 2x Blood Spawn in medium armor S&B/S&B for stamwarden in no-CP. It seems pretty strong even with the cost increase of trees.

I've played a bit with 5 Tava's 5 Spriggans 2 Bloodspawn on live and its really nice, all the trees you can imagine and really nice damage. I'd run something other than spriggans, I just happen to have gold SnB from an old build so...

TheDoomsdayMonster · October 2017

@Lexxypwns

I guess its not really worth arguing about, but I have killed many good players with that combo (and the Bats Proc Combat Physician if my target tries to stand his ground!); too bad you are on Xbox and not ps4 as I could show you how effective that combo is 1st hand...

Lexxypwns · October 2017

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

@Lexxypwns

I guess its not really worth arguing about, but I have killed many good players with that combo; too bad you are on Xbox and not ps4 as

I literally cannot even begin to fathom dying to a combo that's got literally 0 burst damage and is relying on a conal DoT and 2.5k batswarm ticks to do all of its killing. That's the definition of going full potato.

There's no snares and you're starting your combo by giving the opponent CC immunity, ensuring they can heal anytime their health pool gets too pressured until the end of bats. There's literally nothing in your combo that's gonna do even 5k damage on a non-crit and nothing that's gonna break a 7k crit. I'm sure you can put out pressure but I cannot imagine dying to "sweeps til they die" on a build with no snares and no burst mechanics outside of an expensive ultimate. And the passive healing from sweeps+bats IS NOT enough healing to keep you from getting smashed hard with a counter burst and put on your back foot, meaning you have to charge bats again to even begin your combo.

You're literally praying for Burning light to proc enough times that you actually can put out some semblance of burst and that's hard to bank on since sweeps is so easy to kite.

TheDoomsdayMonster · October 2017

Lexxypwns wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

@Lexxypwns

I guess its not really worth arguing about, but I have killed many good players with that combo; too bad you are on Xbox and not ps4 as

I literally cannot even begin to fathom dying to a combo that's got literally 0 burst damage and is relying on a conal DoT and 2.5k batswarm ticks to do all of its killing. That's the definition of going full potato.

There's no snares and you're starting your combo by giving the opponent CC immunity, ensuring they can heal anytime their health pool gets too pressured until the end of bats. There's literally nothing in your combo that's gonna do even 5k damage on a non-crit and nothing that's gonna break a 7k crit. I'm sure you can put out pressure but I cannot imagine dying to "sweeps til they die" on a build with no snares and no burst mechanics outside of an expensive ultimate. And the passive healing from sweeps+bats IS NOT enough healing to keep you from getting smashed hard with a counter burst and put on your back foot, meaning you have to charge bats again to even begin your combo.

You're literally praying for Burning light to proc enough times that you actually can put out some semblance of burst and that's hard to bank on since sweeps is so easy to kite.

Too bad I cant show you 1st hand...

Your opinion on this is all wrong; I use this combo all the time...its very powerful...and it kills.

But anyway, we are off topic...

KingJ · October 2017

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

@Lexxypwns

I guess its not really worth arguing about, but I have killed many good players with that combo; too bad you are on Xbox and not ps4 as

I literally cannot even begin to fathom dying to a combo that's got literally 0 burst damage and is relying on a conal DoT and 2.5k batswarm ticks to do all of its killing. That's the definition of going full potato.

There's no snares and you're starting your combo by giving the opponent CC immunity, ensuring they can heal anytime their health pool gets too pressured until the end of bats. There's literally nothing in your combo that's gonna do even 5k damage on a non-crit and nothing that's gonna break a 7k crit. I'm sure you can put out pressure but I cannot imagine dying to "sweeps til they die" on a build with no snares and no burst mechanics outside of an expensive ultimate. And the passive healing from sweeps+bats IS NOT enough healing to keep you from getting smashed hard with a counter burst and put on your back foot, meaning you have to charge bats again to even begin your combo.

You're literally praying for Burning light to proc enough times that you actually can put out some semblance of burst and that's hard to bank on since sweeps is so easy to kite.

Too bad I cant show you 1st hand...

Your opinion on this is all wrong; I use this combo all the time...its very powerful...and it kills.

But anyway, we are off topic...

Record a video of you dueling a competent player with the build I'm sure PS4 has a recording feature.

TheDoomsdayMonster · October 2017

KingJ wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

@Lexxypwns

I guess its not really worth arguing about, but I have killed many good players with that combo; too bad you are on Xbox and not ps4 as

I literally cannot even begin to fathom dying to a combo that's got literally 0 burst damage and is relying on a conal DoT and 2.5k batswarm ticks to do all of its killing. That's the definition of going full potato.

There's no snares and you're starting your combo by giving the opponent CC immunity, ensuring they can heal anytime their health pool gets too pressured until the end of bats. There's literally nothing in your combo that's gonna do even 5k damage on a non-crit and nothing that's gonna break a 7k crit. I'm sure you can put out pressure but I cannot imagine dying to "sweeps til they die" on a build with no snares and no burst mechanics outside of an expensive ultimate. And the passive healing from sweeps+bats IS NOT enough healing to keep you from getting smashed hard with a counter burst and put on your back foot, meaning you have to charge bats again to even begin your combo.

You're literally praying for Burning light to proc enough times that you actually can put out some semblance of burst and that's hard to bank on since sweeps is so easy to kite.

Too bad I cant show you 1st hand...

Your opinion on this is all wrong; I use this combo all the time...its very powerful...and it kills.

But anyway, we are off topic...

Record a video of you dueling a competent player with the build I'm sure PS4 has a recording feature.

It does, but you gotta upload to Facebook (which I'm not on) then take it from there to Youtube...

I cant be bothered to do all of that...

Takes-No-Prisoner · October 2017

PS4 does. It'll record the past 15minutes of footage that you can edit using SHAREFactory. It's not the best editing software out there, but it's certainly easy to get the footage, edit it and send it on its way to Facebook or YouTube.

Lexxypwns · October 2017

It's not like I've never fought a magplar who thought this combo would work. There's a reason most good magplars are using a burst ultimate, bats is cost prohibitive and comes at the cost of either a defensive ultimate or a superior offensive ultimate.

It's stuck in a weird place where it doesn't do more damage than wall of elements. And it also doesn't heal a lot.

This is neither here nor there, but I assure you that if you bring that bunk build over here it's GG.

@TheDoomsdayMonster you run Combat Physician and burst with batswarm don't even play with me right now lol

Anti_Virus · October 2017

raasdal wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Assuming 5 pc in the tree.
Light armor-
20% Regen
10%Cost reduction
Spell resistance
Crit- 2.1k with 5 pc
Penetration

Great damage perks vs anything without a shield, worthless against. They also do not effect healing.

Medium-
Crit- 1.6k so slightly less
20% Regen
10% cost reduction
20% Sneak cost reduction-ok it's bad
15% detectable radius reduction- ok its bad
12%weapon damage
15% faster while sprinting
20% roll dodge cost reduction- base is 3.6k cost

Mediums damage passives effect shields and healing, however do not provide as much raw damage vs a target. Good trade off imo. They need the healing. The main issue with medium imo is zos making everything undodgable.

New Heavy-
1.8k physical and spell resistance
20%heath recovery- useless on most builds
540 Stamina and magicka given when hit every 4 seconds. Essentially 135 stam and mag regen conditionally. Great for off pool regen, awful for main pool.
10%max health
8% healing recieved
25%more resource return on heavy attacks.

Yes they make you able to take more damage. But 1.8k resistance, average 2.5k hp if they're building for damage, and 8% extra healing(hard countered by defile), hardly make anyone unkillable. BLOCKING does.

FIX BLOCKING FORMULA SO IT EFFECTS AND FIXES PERMABLOCKING AND DOESNT IMPACT EVERY OTHER BUILD BUT THE ONE YOU ARE TRYING TO IMPACT!!!!

Stop making everything undodgable. It's a whole armor types defense.

I still love medium armor.

The difference between HA and MA/LA is not 1800 resist. It is more. You are only comparing Passives, and forgetting to account for the natural resistance of each armor type.

Medium armor is literally 3/4 of the resistance of heavy armor.

Also Armor penetration exists in this game.

Mazbt · October 2017

I'm in medium like 80% of the time anyways. I prefer it. Some people dont like it and think heavy overperforms in comparison. that's their opinion.

TheDoomsdayMonster · October 2017

Lexxypwns wrote: »

It's not like I've never fought a magplar who thought this combo would work. There's a reason most good magplars are using a burst ultimate, bats is cost prohibitive and comes at the cost of either a defensive ultimate or a superior offensive ultimate.

It's stuck in a weird place where it doesn't do more damage than wall of elements. And it also doesn't heal a lot.

This is neither here nor there, but I assure you that if you bring that bunk build over here it's GG.

Now that might make an interesting topic thread: "The value and usefulness of Devouring Swarm."

I personally have a very high opinion of this Ultimate...

It only costs me 140 Ult on my build, so it refreshes pretty quickly...

For my build, in a PvP setting, it averages 13k damage and 8.5k healing per target over the course of its 5 second duration (so the larger the group I attack with it, the more unkillable I become for that 5 sec duration), and of course, it procs the Combat Physician Damage Shield...

I love it...

Lexxypwns · October 2017

Anti_Virus wrote: »

raasdal wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Assuming 5 pc in the tree.
Light armor-
20% Regen
10%Cost reduction
Spell resistance
Crit- 2.1k with 5 pc
Penetration

Great damage perks vs anything without a shield, worthless against. They also do not effect healing.

Medium-
Crit- 1.6k so slightly less
20% Regen
10% cost reduction
20% Sneak cost reduction-ok it's bad
15% detectable radius reduction- ok its bad
12%weapon damage
15% faster while sprinting
20% roll dodge cost reduction- base is 3.6k cost

Mediums damage passives effect shields and healing, however do not provide as much raw damage vs a target. Good trade off imo. They need the healing. The main issue with medium imo is zos making everything undodgable.

New Heavy-
1.8k physical and spell resistance
20%heath recovery- useless on most builds
540 Stamina and magicka given when hit every 4 seconds. Essentially 135 stam and mag regen conditionally. Great for off pool regen, awful for main pool.
10%max health
8% healing recieved
25%more resource return on heavy attacks.

Yes they make you able to take more damage. But 1.8k resistance, average 2.5k hp if they're building for damage, and 8% extra healing(hard countered by defile), hardly make anyone unkillable. BLOCKING does.

FIX BLOCKING FORMULA SO IT EFFECTS AND FIXES PERMABLOCKING AND DOESNT IMPACT EVERY OTHER BUILD BUT THE ONE YOU ARE TRYING TO IMPACT!!!!

Stop making everything undodgable. It's a whole armor types defense.

I still love medium armor.

The difference between HA and MA/LA is not 1800 resist. It is more. You are only comparing Passives, and forgetting to account for the natural resistance of each armor type.

Medium armor is literally 3/4 of the resistance of heavy armor.

Also Armor penetration exists in this game.

Throw in a heavy chest, bloodspawn, resist buffs and you're at a respectable level. Add in SnB for the reduced damage from range and the ability to relieve pressure blocking birds, soul assault, etc and a good defensive ult. Plus major evasion that non-NB heavy builds won't have and the rally burst heal/the fact that a heavy build with rally has no mobility. Then add in dodge rolls for situations where you can make a sorc miss his whole combo. Then look at sprint speed for kiting.

I think medium is really attractive next patch right now, but that could just be my preference for squirrelly builds.

TheDoomsdayMonster · October 2017

Lexxypwns wrote: »

@TheDoomsdayMonster you run Combat Physician and burst with batswarm don't even play with me right now lol

Don't knock it until you've tried it!!!!

technohic · October 2017

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Light has been better than heavy, passive wise, since the sharpened nerf.

There's simply no efficient way to recoup the penetration that light armor provides back into a build without sacrificing too many other things. If you're a magika build and you've been running heavy you've been seriously gimping your damage just for some tankiness you can pick up elsewhere.

Medium still has at least 1 really bad combat passive(sneak speed) and 1 that's less desirable (dodge roll cost reduction) because of several nerfs to the defensive mechanic it promotes.

Well, in a certain way that's true - but keep in mind that penetration is useless vs dmg shields, where as heavy armor Wrath passive (and any further damage you could pick up by not having to use a defensive set) still work against them.

That said, with Wrath passive gone there's no real alternative to light armor anymore, it'll just deal better damage in every scenario.

keep in mind that if you're having trouble killing builds whose primary defense is damage shields that light armor will actually do more than heavy to help you. This is simply because the burst available in light is such that you can routinely melt people within the window of a single, well-timed, CC. Whereas, in heavy, you have to allow wrath to charge and still need another big damage set to approach the damage light armor has.

If you're trying to brute force damage shields down in 2017 that's a YOU issue not a question of whether light is stronger than heavy. For reference, wrath adds ~2% damage and concentration adds ~8% and that's not even counting the crit passives. A typical damage set is going to give you about 5-7% damage. Light was already superior in every scenario because nobody keeps a 100% uptime on shields and as soon as you hit that health pool light armor adds like 13% more damage than heavy. The key to killing someone who is relying on damage shield for their defense is a well timed CC+burst combo as their shield drops either from pressure or from timing.

Well, I've always done better with heavy armor on my magplar than with light - granted I haven't played my magplar much recently.

There aren't much good, reliable CC options for a magplar (nor a lot of burst damage for a sweeps focused build) which might have a lot to do with it - it's always been important to be able to pressure down those shields efficiently with sweeps & DoTs on magplar.

I can see how light armor should typically be better for other classes (& Dark Flare magplar builds) though.

Not that it matters after next patch, light will just be better for all builds

Destructive reach is the best CC option for magplar btw and imo its the best CC in the game that doesn't break block.

Yeah, it's good - but requires using destro staff.

I don't think destro staff synergizes well with templar because the damage is such a mix between AoE (Sweeps) & single target (Unstable Core, Purifying Light, Destructive Reach/Clench, Vampire's Bane), meaning you can't feasibly get the full benefit from Ancient Knowledge passive.

I just feel DW/S&B is the way to go for the classic Sweeps magplar (rev bash can act as a decent CC)- I'd definitely use destro on a Flare build tho.

I mean, any destro, including weaves is better damage than DW by a mile and my personal experience with magplar I rarely cast more than a couple sweeps in a row. Your DoTs have low duration and so does PL, you just don't have time to spam your spammable a whole lot and you really do lose a lot of pressure from weaving. DW or not you'll never kill good players without PL explosions and the best way to fill them up is on a destro build.

That's not even mentioning you can run ele drain and use the good morph of rune that gives minor protection+vitality instead of the regen one. And also increases your damage to levels a DW build can't dream of

SnB back bar a must though imo

The bolded part is definitely not true...

On my Dual Weild Magplar, I have a burst combo that I use to kill good players and Purifying Light isn't part of the equation:

1) Immovable PoT
2) Structured Entropy...
3) Toppling Charge...
4) Devouring Swarm...
5) Puncturing Sweeps until dead...

That’s probably not that good of players.

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

raasdal wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Assuming 5 pc in the tree.
Light armor-
20% Regen
10%Cost reduction
Spell resistance
Crit- 2.1k with 5 pc
Penetration

Great damage perks vs anything without a shield, worthless against. They also do not effect healing.

Medium-
Crit- 1.6k so slightly less
20% Regen
10% cost reduction
20% Sneak cost reduction-ok it's bad
15% detectable radius reduction- ok its bad
12%weapon damage
15% faster while sprinting
20% roll dodge cost reduction- base is 3.6k cost

Mediums damage passives effect shields and healing, however do not provide as much raw damage vs a target. Good trade off imo. They need the healing. The main issue with medium imo is zos making everything undodgable.

New Heavy-
1.8k physical and spell resistance
20%heath recovery- useless on most builds
540 Stamina and magicka given when hit every 4 seconds. Essentially 135 stam and mag regen conditionally. Great for off pool regen, awful for main pool.
10%max health
8% healing recieved
25%more resource return on heavy attacks.

Yes they make you able to take more damage. But 1.8k resistance, average 2.5k hp if they're building for damage, and 8% extra healing(hard countered by defile), hardly make anyone unkillable. BLOCKING does.

FIX BLOCKING FORMULA SO IT EFFECTS AND FIXES PERMABLOCKING AND DOESNT IMPACT EVERY OTHER BUILD BUT THE ONE YOU ARE TRYING TO IMPACT!!!!

Stop making everything undodgable. It's a whole armor types defense.

I still love medium armor.

The difference between HA and MA/LA is not 1800 resist. It is more. You are only comparing Passives, and forgetting to account for the natural resistance of each armor type.

Medium armor is literally 3/4 of the resistance of heavy armor.

Also Armor penetration exists in this game.

Throw in a heavy chest, bloodspawn, resist buffs and you're at a respectable level. Add in SnB for the reduced damage from range and the ability to relieve pressure blocking birds, soul assault, etc and a good defensive ult. Plus major evasion that non-NB heavy builds won't have and the rally burst heal/the fact that a heavy build with rally has no mobility. Then add in dodge rolls for situations where you can make a sorc miss his whole combo. Then look at sprint speed for kiting.

I think medium is really attractive next patch right now, but that could just be my preference for squirrelly builds.

You’re describing my next step in my Templar where I was thinking of going sword and shield, Tavas on shield bar and Hunding always up. And Bloodspawn. Was going to give up on empowering sweep and run shield wall even though it’s nerfed.

Still; Templar doesn’t have cheap major expedition to go with sprint so it’s either give up rally or bow roll. Or I could go dual wield and use the AOE defense rather than 1h shield

Adenoma · October 2017

@technohic , get major expedition from lingering health + speed pots. It's around 1k HoT and with major expedition always up you can kite like crazy to make use of that baseline heal from the pot while you line of sight. I pretty much only use those on heavy armor stamwarden running S&B/S&B. I'll be doing the same next patch when I start testing medium armor Tava's stamwarden.

technohic · October 2017

Adenoma wrote: »

@technohic , get major expedition from lingering health + speed pots. It's around 1k HoT and with major expedition always up you can kite like crazy to make use of that baseline heal from the pot while you line of sight. I pretty much only use those on heavy armor stamwarden running S&B/S&B. I'll be doing the same next patch when I start testing medium armor Tava's stamwarden.

Not a bad idea. Will have to get rid of Hunding though. Wasn’t thinking before but I’ll need a loot set for jewelry if I’m running Tavas.

Edit: wonder if I should just run cowards and keep my golden Hunding

Brutusmax1mus · October 2017

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

@Lexxypwns

I guess its not really worth arguing about, but I have killed many good players with that combo; too bad you are on Xbox and not ps4 as

I literally cannot even begin to fathom dying to a combo that's got literally 0 burst damage and is relying on a conal DoT and 2.5k batswarm ticks to do all of its killing. That's the definition of going full potato.

There's no snares and you're starting your combo by giving the opponent CC immunity, ensuring they can heal anytime their health pool gets too pressured until the end of bats. There's literally nothing in your combo that's gonna do even 5k damage on a non-crit and nothing that's gonna break a 7k crit. I'm sure you can put out pressure but I cannot imagine dying to "sweeps til they die" on a build with no snares and no burst mechanics outside of an expensive ultimate. And the passive healing from sweeps+bats IS NOT enough healing to keep you from getting smashed hard with a counter burst and put on your back foot, meaning you have to charge bats again to even begin your combo.

You're literally praying for Burning light to proc enough times that you actually can put out some semblance of burst and that's hard to bank on since sweeps is so easy to kite.

Too bad I cant show you 1st hand...

Your opinion on this is all wrong; I use this combo all the time...its very powerful...and it kills.

But anyway, we are off topic...

Record a video of you dueling a competent player with the build I'm sure PS4 has a recording feature.

It does, but you gotta upload to Facebook (which I'm not on) then take it from there to Youtube...

I cant be bothered to do all of that...

You can upload straight to YouTube.

TheDoomsdayMonster · October 2017

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

@Lexxypwns

I guess its not really worth arguing about, but I have killed many good players with that combo; too bad you are on Xbox and not ps4 as

I literally cannot even begin to fathom dying to a combo that's got literally 0 burst damage and is relying on a conal DoT and 2.5k batswarm ticks to do all of its killing. That's the definition of going full potato.

There's no snares and you're starting your combo by giving the opponent CC immunity, ensuring they can heal anytime their health pool gets too pressured until the end of bats. There's literally nothing in your combo that's gonna do even 5k damage on a non-crit and nothing that's gonna break a 7k crit. I'm sure you can put out pressure but I cannot imagine dying to "sweeps til they die" on a build with no snares and no burst mechanics outside of an expensive ultimate. And the passive healing from sweeps+bats IS NOT enough healing to keep you from getting smashed hard with a counter burst and put on your back foot, meaning you have to charge bats again to even begin your combo.

You're literally praying for Burning light to proc enough times that you actually can put out some semblance of burst and that's hard to bank on since sweeps is so easy to kite.

Too bad I cant show you 1st hand...

Your opinion on this is all wrong; I use this combo all the time...its very powerful...and it kills.

But anyway, we are off topic...

Record a video of you dueling a competent player with the build I'm sure PS4 has a recording feature.

It does, but you gotta upload to Facebook (which I'm not on) then take it from there to Youtube...

I cant be bothered to do all of that...

You can upload straight to YouTube.

How?

I cant recall seeing that option; last I looked (and its been a while) the only options were Twitch and Facebook...

Brutusmax1mus · October 2017

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

@Lexxypwns

I guess its not really worth arguing about, but I have killed many good players with that combo; too bad you are on Xbox and not ps4 as

I literally cannot even begin to fathom dying to a combo that's got literally 0 burst damage and is relying on a conal DoT and 2.5k batswarm ticks to do all of its killing. That's the definition of going full potato.

There's no snares and you're starting your combo by giving the opponent CC immunity, ensuring they can heal anytime their health pool gets too pressured until the end of bats. There's literally nothing in your combo that's gonna do even 5k damage on a non-crit and nothing that's gonna break a 7k crit. I'm sure you can put out pressure but I cannot imagine dying to "sweeps til they die" on a build with no snares and no burst mechanics outside of an expensive ultimate. And the passive healing from sweeps+bats IS NOT enough healing to keep you from getting smashed hard with a counter burst and put on your back foot, meaning you have to charge bats again to even begin your combo.

You're literally praying for Burning light to proc enough times that you actually can put out some semblance of burst and that's hard to bank on since sweeps is so easy to kite.

Too bad I cant show you 1st hand...

Your opinion on this is all wrong; I use this combo all the time...its very powerful...and it kills.

But anyway, we are off topic...

Record a video of you dueling a competent player with the build I'm sure PS4 has a recording feature.

It does, but you gotta upload to Facebook (which I'm not on) then take it from there to Youtube...

I cant be bothered to do all of that...

You can upload straight to YouTube.

How?

I cant recall seeing that option; last I looked (and its been a while) the only options were Twitch and Facebook...

After making the video with share factory, press share and it will begin rendering. When thats finished you'll be given 4 options to upload to.

Brutusmax1mus · October 2017

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

@Lexxypwns

I guess its not really worth arguing about, but I have killed many good players with that combo; too bad you are on Xbox and not ps4 as

I literally cannot even begin to fathom dying to a combo that's got literally 0 burst damage and is relying on a conal DoT and 2.5k batswarm ticks to do all of its killing. That's the definition of going full potato.

There's no snares and you're starting your combo by giving the opponent CC immunity, ensuring they can heal anytime their health pool gets too pressured until the end of bats. There's literally nothing in your combo that's gonna do even 5k damage on a non-crit and nothing that's gonna break a 7k crit. I'm sure you can put out pressure but I cannot imagine dying to "sweeps til they die" on a build with no snares and no burst mechanics outside of an expensive ultimate. And the passive healing from sweeps+bats IS NOT enough healing to keep you from getting smashed hard with a counter burst and put on your back foot, meaning you have to charge bats again to even begin your combo.

You're literally praying for Burning light to proc enough times that you actually can put out some semblance of burst and that's hard to bank on since sweeps is so easy to kite.

Too bad I cant show you 1st hand...

Your opinion on this is all wrong; I use this combo all the time...its very powerful...and it kills.

But anyway, we are off topic...

Record a video of you dueling a competent player with the build I'm sure PS4 has a recording feature.

It does, but you gotta upload to Facebook (which I'm not on) then take it from there to Youtube...

I cant be bothered to do all of that...

You can upload straight to YouTube.

How?

I cant recall seeing that option; last I looked (and its been a while) the only options were Twitch and Facebook...

After making the video with share factory, press share and it will begin rendering. When thats finished you'll be given 4 options to upload to.

I'm on ps4 na ill walk you through it is you want.