Kilandros wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

LordSlif wrote: »

ZoM_Head wrote: »

mb10 wrote: »

Why are all the mag DKs moaning?

75% of your enemies are vampires in PVP and take 25% extra damage from your attacks.
Your resistance is the highest, you have dragon leap which is cheap, can't dodge it and hits like a truck, oh and it's a gap closer.

You have a good heal and your CCs are the best.

But no, you want a gap closer, execute and mobility too.

Lol what on Earth would be the point in playing ANY other class if we had that?

Those vamps are resisting thanks to elemental defender.

CCs are the best? in melee range maybe, but 90% of players run immovable pots, this is arguable.

Leap is a gap closer? It is an ultimate that can be blocked or dodged intime, compare it to any other cheap ulti or something that costs the same, it is not all that, not to mention the animation bugs you get stuck in half the time.

We do not "want " a gap closer, we mentioned LACKING a gap closer, it should be compensated, just like not having an execute, some compensation is worth considering.

You have very little info in how the mDk was before IC update, after and even today. You are probably being carried or running with a healer in Cyrodiil, or having some stamina guy with you while you CC and leap and he bursts.

DK is in a good spot

If being non-existent in PvP groups is a "good spot" then yeah I guess we're in a great spot.

You should actually try playing DK before commenting on its viability.

I play one and see them all the time on console. Especially in battlegrounds, mag DK specifically is very strong in battlegrounds. Not as strong as mag warden for BGs but that is almost entirely because of the healing ult.

It's arguably the weakest magicka class, even in BGs. Just because people can hold block while their teammates get KBs doesn't mean it's a strong class. Give me a group of 3 Magplars or 3 Magblades with a Warden any day of the week.

Not the weakest

LordSlif wrote: »

LoL DK is a good trapper for big groups... root, chain, leap, best class for duels and very good for small fights, im have a DK but if people dnt know how to use the class... not my fault

PvP is not ESO, it is a combination of PvE and PvP, so far you mentioned "big groups", clearly yes the mDK will spam CCs all day long, let me ask you then where is the damage coming from?

Do not know how the play the class? really? ESO day 1 player here on mDK and i have seen the changes from day 1, play ANY class in a big group and see how "effective" it is.

_Salty_ wrote: »

I love the armor skill changes. Of course Im a nightblade so Im not affected by these whatsover and my opinion in biased.

Wait...I'm a nightblade tank too...we have a major evasion class skill...I totally forgot!. Lol thx for reminding me. I guess I'm not screwed at all...just need to grab some sky shards lol.

ZoM_Head wrote: »

LordSlif wrote: »

ZoM_Head wrote: »

mb10 wrote: »

Why are all the mag DKs moaning?

75% of your enemies are vampires in PVP and take 25% extra damage from your attacks.
Your resistance is the highest, you have dragon leap which is cheap, can't dodge it and hits like a truck, oh and it's a gap closer.

You have a good heal and your CCs are the best.

But no, you want a gap closer, execute and mobility too.

Lol what on Earth would be the point in playing ANY other class if we had that?

Those vamps are resisting thanks to elemental defender.

CCs are the best? in melee range maybe, but 90% of players run immovable pots, this is arguable.

Leap is a gap closer? It is an ultimate that can be blocked or dodged intime, compare it to any other cheap ulti or something that costs the same, it is not all that, not to mention the animation bugs you get stuck in half the time.

We do not "want " a gap closer, we mentioned LACKING a gap closer, it should be compensated, just like not having an execute, some compensation is worth considering.

You have very little info in how the mDk was before IC update, after and even today. You are probably being carried or running with a healer in Cyrodiil, or having some stamina guy with you while you CC and leap and he bursts.

DK is in a good spot

Did you even read my first comment? They are not even used end game PvE, Cyrodiil can rot and burn, you PvP players ruined this class for PvE.

Magtemplars and magwardens are in a bad spot for pve... only healers, worst dps.
There are high dps DKs not like sorcs

v7ift6ayiw5f.png
General

Increased the rewards for opening a Master Chest when you have the Treasure Hunter passive.

Any more info on this?

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

LordSlif wrote: »

ZoM_Head wrote: »

mb10 wrote: »

Why are all the mag DKs moaning?

75% of your enemies are vampires in PVP and take 25% extra damage from your attacks.
Your resistance is the highest, you have dragon leap which is cheap, can't dodge it and hits like a truck, oh and it's a gap closer.

You have a good heal and your CCs are the best.

But no, you want a gap closer, execute and mobility too.

Lol what on Earth would be the point in playing ANY other class if we had that?

Those vamps are resisting thanks to elemental defender.

CCs are the best? in melee range maybe, but 90% of players run immovable pots, this is arguable.

Leap is a gap closer? It is an ultimate that can be blocked or dodged intime, compare it to any other cheap ulti or something that costs the same, it is not all that, not to mention the animation bugs you get stuck in half the time.

We do not "want " a gap closer, we mentioned LACKING a gap closer, it should be compensated, just like not having an execute, some compensation is worth considering.

You have very little info in how the mDk was before IC update, after and even today. You are probably being carried or running with a healer in Cyrodiil, or having some stamina guy with you while you CC and leap and he bursts.

DK is in a good spot

If being non-existent in PvP groups is a "good spot" then yeah I guess we're in a great spot.

You should actually try playing DK before commenting on its viability.

I play one and see them all the time on console. Especially in battlegrounds, mag DK specifically is very strong in battlegrounds. Not as strong as mag warden for BGs but that is almost entirely because of the healing ult.

It's arguably the weakest magicka class, even in BGs. Just because people can hold block while their teammates get KBs doesn't mean it's a strong class. Give me a group of 3 Magplars or 3 Magblades with a Warden any day of the week.

Who said anything about holding block? Perhaps you just built yours wrong?

Slow the roll on that hyperbole and perhaps your comments could be taken more seriously.

Mag DK's in general struggle to get KB's but that in no way eliminates their value or contribution. Secondly I have played with and against a few Mag DK's that got plenty of KB's.

In contrast Sorc's in general get plenty of KB's, but I've seen a ton of them that can't deal squat for damage and just grab KB's off their allies. Getting KB's only defines performance for teenagers who cant see beyond a particular K/D ratio. Same kids who go into a BGs on NB's and ignore the objectives while exalting that they went 5-0 by ganking solo players.

Yes and no.

If you are in a group, then I agree that getting killing blows is not particularly that important as there are other things a non-killer could do productively for their team. As to whether or not the DK offers just as many "other things" comapred to other classes is a matter of debate. I think it's very difficulty to quantify that and convincingly say a DK is better. I will grant chains can be useful, talons is strong, and eruption can have a role, but is anyone going to tell me they are better than Fear, corrupting Pollen, Encase, or Breath of Life?

You say slow the role on hyperbole and then equate getting killing blows as ONLY defining performance for teenagers. Physician, heal thyself. If you are not in a group, than killing blows are tantamount to winning and losing; in the open world alone, a DK has to get killing blows and multiple amounts or else it's rez at wayshrine.

That's because I don't see DK's lacking for killing blows because of an inability to kill opponents. Rather they lack because they do not have an execute and they are on the lower end of burst, so they lose killing blows to allies that they would otherwise get solo.

In BG's you are always in a group, whether you que'd in with those players or not. I made no claim that a Mag DK was strong solo in Cyrodiil. Although I have seen a few video's of some that did quite well for themselves.

I have actually played a match with two mag DK's, one stam DK, and a NB. All four players on my team did over 800k damage and beat both opposing teams which had dedicated healers that healed for over 500k. The highest damage dealer was a Mag DK at 1.2mil. I have seen Mag DK's go 20 and 0 in BG's. No it is not common, but it isn't entirely elusive or impossible.

Yes in general Mag DK's struggle to get KB's because they lack an execute, where other setups can get KB's. Trust me I've played a lot of bow builds and bow/bow builds, I'm very familiar with struggling to get KB's. Not having a strong execute does not break a class.

Notice I said KB's not Mag DK's cannot kill other players.

Some Solo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHYWTMIRhDU

This guy has healer die about 1min in:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmnY9LBdQjA

Some group:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsfxPLeBm2Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yL-gUtoz7Q

I'm not sure why people keep peddling this fallacious argument that the DKs pulling "1.2m damage" in BGs is somehow representative of the strengths of the class. Give me a teammate who does half as much overall damage but does it in burst windows resulting in kills any day over a DK who just spams weak AoEs and contributes little to a group's killing ability.

If you want videos, why don't you watch Kodi stream his mDK in open world. He's objectively one of the best players in the game and he'll tell you it's the weakest magicka class by a large margin.

Kilandros wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

LordSlif wrote: »

ZoM_Head wrote: »

mb10 wrote: »

Why are all the mag DKs moaning?

75% of your enemies are vampires in PVP and take 25% extra damage from your attacks.
Your resistance is the highest, you have dragon leap which is cheap, can't dodge it and hits like a truck, oh and it's a gap closer.

You have a good heal and your CCs are the best.

But no, you want a gap closer, execute and mobility too.

Lol what on Earth would be the point in playing ANY other class if we had that?

Those vamps are resisting thanks to elemental defender.

CCs are the best? in melee range maybe, but 90% of players run immovable pots, this is arguable.

Leap is a gap closer? It is an ultimate that can be blocked or dodged intime, compare it to any other cheap ulti or something that costs the same, it is not all that, not to mention the animation bugs you get stuck in half the time.

We do not "want " a gap closer, we mentioned LACKING a gap closer, it should be compensated, just like not having an execute, some compensation is worth considering.

You have very little info in how the mDk was before IC update, after and even today. You are probably being carried or running with a healer in Cyrodiil, or having some stamina guy with you while you CC and leap and he bursts.

DK is in a good spot

If being non-existent in PvP groups is a "good spot" then yeah I guess we're in a great spot.

You should actually try playing DK before commenting on its viability.

I play one and see them all the time on console. Especially in battlegrounds, mag DK specifically is very strong in battlegrounds. Not as strong as mag warden for BGs but that is almost entirely because of the healing ult.

It's arguably the weakest magicka class, even in BGs. Just because people can hold block while their teammates get KBs doesn't mean it's a strong class. Give me a group of 3 Magplars or 3 Magblades with a Warden any day of the week.

Who said anything about holding block? Perhaps you just built yours wrong?

Slow the roll on that hyperbole and perhaps your comments could be taken more seriously.

Mag DK's in general struggle to get KB's but that in no way eliminates their value or contribution. Secondly I have played with and against a few Mag DK's that got plenty of KB's.

In contrast Sorc's in general get plenty of KB's, but I've seen a ton of them that can't deal squat for damage and just grab KB's off their allies. Getting KB's only defines performance for teenagers who cant see beyond a particular K/D ratio. Same kids who go into a BGs on NB's and ignore the objectives while exalting that they went 5-0 by ganking solo players.

Yes and no.

If you are in a group, then I agree that getting killing blows is not particularly that important as there are other things a non-killer could do productively for their team. As to whether or not the DK offers just as many "other things" comapred to other classes is a matter of debate. I think it's very difficulty to quantify that and convincingly say a DK is better. I will grant chains can be useful, talons is strong, and eruption can have a role, but is anyone going to tell me they are better than Fear, corrupting Pollen, Encase, or Breath of Life?

You say slow the role on hyperbole and then equate getting killing blows as ONLY defining performance for teenagers. Physician, heal thyself. If you are not in a group, than killing blows are tantamount to winning and losing; in the open world alone, a DK has to get killing blows and multiple amounts or else it's rez at wayshrine.

That's because I don't see DK's lacking for killing blows because of an inability to kill opponents. Rather they lack because they do not have an execute and they are on the lower end of burst, so they lose killing blows to allies that they would otherwise get solo.

In BG's you are always in a group, whether you que'd in with those players or not. I made no claim that a Mag DK was strong solo in Cyrodiil. Although I have seen a few video's of some that did quite well for themselves.

I have actually played a match with two mag DK's, one stam DK, and a NB. All four players on my team did over 800k damage and beat both opposing teams which had dedicated healers that healed for over 500k. The highest damage dealer was a Mag DK at 1.2mil. I have seen Mag DK's go 20 and 0 in BG's. No it is not common, but it isn't entirely elusive or impossible.

Yes in general Mag DK's struggle to get KB's because they lack an execute, where other setups can get KB's. Trust me I've played a lot of bow builds and bow/bow builds, I'm very familiar with struggling to get KB's. Not having a strong execute does not break a class.

Notice I said KB's not Mag DK's cannot kill other players.

Some Solo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHYWTMIRhDU

This guy has healer die about 1min in:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmnY9LBdQjA

Some group:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsfxPLeBm2Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yL-gUtoz7Q

I'm not sure why people keep peddling this fallacious argument that the DKs pulling "1.2m damage" in BGs is somehow representative of the strengths of the class. Give me a teammate who does half as much overall damage but does it in burst windows resulting in kills any day over a DK who just spams weak AoEs and contributes little to a group's killing ability.

If you want videos, why don't you watch Kodi stream his mDK in open world. He's objectively one of the best players in the game and he'll tell you it's the weakest magicka class by a large margin.

If you hate it so much why do you even bother?

I see players not just doing okay, but excelling on Mag DK. Perhaps you should look elsewhere for your entertainment.

An individual player may be objectively good, that in no way equates to their ability to be objective. An individual players ranking system does not objectively prove anything. All players have bias, all players have preferences and habits. Some classes and play styles come more naturally and feel easier than others to specific people.

You stated:

Kilandros wrote: »

. . .
Just because people can hold block while their teammates get KBs doesn't mean it's a strong class. . .

I not only stated that this was false, I brought video evidence of the contrary. Mag DK's are not stuck with holding block and letting other players get kills. That is objectively false, perhaps those who build their DKs to hold block are doing this, but it is not a restriction of the class itself.

ZoM_Head wrote: »

mb10 wrote: »

Why are all the mag DKs moaning?

75% of your enemies are vampires in PVP and take 25% extra damage from your attacks.
Your resistance is the highest, you have dragon leap which is cheap, can't dodge it and hits like a truck, oh and it's a gap closer.

You have a good heal and your CCs are the best.

But no, you want a gap closer, execute and mobility too.

Lol what on Earth would be the point in playing ANY other class if we had that?

Those vamps are resisting thanks to elemental defender.

CCs are the best? in melee range maybe, but 90% of players run immovable pots, this is arguable.

Leap is a gap closer? It is an ultimate that can be blocked or dodged intime, compare it to any other cheap ulti or something that costs the same, it is not all that, not to mention the animation bugs you get stuck in half the time.

We do not "want " a gap closer, we mentioned LACKING a gap closer, it should be compensated, just like not having an execute, some compensation is worth considering.

You have very little info in how the mDk was before IC update, after and even today. You are probably being carried or running with a healer in Cyrodiil, or having some stamina guy with you while you CC and leap and he bursts.

Yes, they have points in ele defender. Bit so does everyone else, so they are still taking more damage. Also, no. Leap cannot be dodged. Please don't spread misinformation.

Koensol wrote: »

ZoM_Head wrote: »

mb10 wrote: »

Why are all the mag DKs moaning?

75% of your enemies are vampires in PVP and take 25% extra damage from your attacks.
Your resistance is the highest, you have dragon leap which is cheap, can't dodge it and hits like a truck, oh and it's a gap closer.

You have a good heal and your CCs are the best.

But no, you want a gap closer, execute and mobility too.

Lol what on Earth would be the point in playing ANY other class if we had that?

Those vamps are resisting thanks to elemental defender.

CCs are the best? in melee range maybe, but 90% of players run immovable pots, this is arguable.

Leap is a gap closer? It is an ultimate that can be blocked or dodged intime, compare it to any other cheap ulti or something that costs the same, it is not all that, not to mention the animation bugs you get stuck in half the time.

We do not "want " a gap closer, we mentioned LACKING a gap closer, it should be compensated, just like not having an execute, some compensation is worth considering.

You have very little info in how the mDk was before IC update, after and even today. You are probably being carried or running with a healer in Cyrodiil, or having some stamina guy with you while you CC and leap and he bursts.

Yes, they have points in ele defender. Bit so does everyone else, so they are still taking more damage. Also, no. Leap cannot be dodged. Please don't spread misinformation.

Off course you can dodge leap, have you never seen someone dodge your leap and take no damage before? Misinformation? Do you not know if you get out of an AOE you take no damage? seriously....You can stand in it and block it as well, is that misinformation? What Zenimax says and what actually happens are two different things, i still see nightblades dodge chains despite it being "can not be dodged".

Jamdarius wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

I dont know where to post it so why not here. Could we get down the road custom color for AoE indicators too? They are pretty hard to see from range and impossible on sand/dwemer like floor textures.
@ZOS_GinaBruno

Just so you know it already exist in main game, my dangerous colour is yellow and friendly blue

Settings--> Gameplay--> Combat--> Custom Colours ON

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

I dont know where to post it so why not here. Could we get down the road custom color for AoE indicators too? They are pretty hard to see from range and impossible on sand/dwemer like floor textures.
@ZOS_GinaBruno

I think they already added customer color choices as well as the ability to make them much brighter.

I see where the confusion may come. I should have been more clearer. I mean the aiming AoE indicator (the yellow outline) of skills like endless hail or caltrops.

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

LordSlif wrote: »

ZoM_Head wrote: »

mb10 wrote: »

Why are all the mag DKs moaning?

75% of your enemies are vampires in PVP and take 25% extra damage from your attacks.
Your resistance is the highest, you have dragon leap which is cheap, can't dodge it and hits like a truck, oh and it's a gap closer.

You have a good heal and your CCs are the best.

But no, you want a gap closer, execute and mobility too.

Lol what on Earth would be the point in playing ANY other class if we had that?

Those vamps are resisting thanks to elemental defender.

CCs are the best? in melee range maybe, but 90% of players run immovable pots, this is arguable.

Leap is a gap closer? It is an ultimate that can be blocked or dodged intime, compare it to any other cheap ulti or something that costs the same, it is not all that, not to mention the animation bugs you get stuck in half the time.

We do not "want " a gap closer, we mentioned LACKING a gap closer, it should be compensated, just like not having an execute, some compensation is worth considering.

You have very little info in how the mDk was before IC update, after and even today. You are probably being carried or running with a healer in Cyrodiil, or having some stamina guy with you while you CC and leap and he bursts.

DK is in a good spot

If being non-existent in PvP groups is a "good spot" then yeah I guess we're in a great spot.

You should actually try playing DK before commenting on its viability.

I play one and see them all the time on console. Especially in battlegrounds, mag DK specifically is very strong in battlegrounds. Not as strong as mag warden for BGs but that is almost entirely because of the healing ult.

It's arguably the weakest magicka class, even in BGs. Just because people can hold block while their teammates get KBs doesn't mean it's a strong class. Give me a group of 3 Magplars or 3 Magblades with a Warden any day of the week.

Who said anything about holding block? Perhaps you just built yours wrong?

Slow the roll on that hyperbole and perhaps your comments could be taken more seriously.

Mag DK's in general struggle to get KB's but that in no way eliminates their value or contribution. Secondly I have played with and against a few Mag DK's that got plenty of KB's.

In contrast Sorc's in general get plenty of KB's, but I've seen a ton of them that can't deal squat for damage and just grab KB's off their allies. Getting KB's only defines performance for teenagers who cant see beyond a particular K/D ratio. Same kids who go into a BGs on NB's and ignore the objectives while exalting that they went 5-0 by ganking solo players.

Yes and no.

If you are in a group, then I agree that getting killing blows is not particularly that important as there are other things a non-killer could do productively for their team. As to whether or not the DK offers just as many "other things" comapred to other classes is a matter of debate. I think it's very difficulty to quantify that and convincingly say a DK is better. I will grant chains can be useful, talons is strong, and eruption can have a role, but is anyone going to tell me they are better than Fear, corrupting Pollen, Encase, or Breath of Life?

You say slow the role on hyperbole and then equate getting killing blows as ONLY defining performance for teenagers. Physician, heal thyself. If you are not in a group, than killing blows are tantamount to winning and losing; in the open world alone, a DK has to get killing blows and multiple amounts or else it's rez at wayshrine.

That's because I don't see DK's lacking for killing blows because of an inability to kill opponents. Rather they lack because they do not have an execute and they are on the lower end of burst, so they lose killing blows to allies that they would otherwise get solo.

In BG's you are always in a group, whether you que'd in with those players or not. I made no claim that a Mag DK was strong solo in Cyrodiil. Although I have seen a few video's of some that did quite well for themselves.

I have actually played a match with two mag DK's, one stam DK, and a NB. All four players on my team did over 800k damage and beat both opposing teams which had dedicated healers that healed for over 500k. The highest damage dealer was a Mag DK at 1.2mil. I have seen Mag DK's go 20 and 0 in BG's. No it is not common, but it isn't entirely elusive or impossible.

Yes in general Mag DK's struggle to get KB's because they lack an execute, where other setups can get KB's. Trust me I've played a lot of bow builds and bow/bow builds, I'm very familiar with struggling to get KB's. Not having a strong execute does not break a class.

Notice I said KB's not Mag DK's cannot kill other players.

Some Solo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHYWTMIRhDU

This guy has healer die about 1min in:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmnY9LBdQjA

Some group:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsfxPLeBm2Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yL-gUtoz7Q

I'm not sure why people keep peddling this fallacious argument that the DKs pulling "1.2m damage" in BGs is somehow representative of the strengths of the class. Give me a teammate who does half as much overall damage but does it in burst windows resulting in kills any day over a DK who just spams weak AoEs and contributes little to a group's killing ability.

If you want videos, why don't you watch Kodi stream his mDK in open world. He's objectively one of the best players in the game and he'll tell you it's the weakest magicka class by a large margin.

If you hate it so much why do you even bother?

I see players not just doing okay, but excelling on Mag DK. Perhaps you should look elsewhere for your entertainment.

An individual player may be objectively good, that in no way equates to their ability to be objective. An individual players ranking system does not objectively prove anything. All players have bias, all players have preferences and habits. Some classes and play styles come more naturally and feel easier than others to specific people.

You stated:

Kilandros wrote: »

. . .
Just because people can hold block while their teammates get KBs doesn't mean it's a strong class. . .

I not only stated that this was false, I brought video evidence of the contrary. Mag DK's are not stuck with holding block and letting other players get kills. That is objectively false, perhaps those who build their DKs to hold block are doing this, but it is not a restriction of the class itself.

Anyone can string together selective video clips.

I run in a small group. We are super efficient at wiping out larger groups. Everything I do on my mDK can be done better with other classes and that's the issue.

reiverx wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

LordSlif wrote: »

ZoM_Head wrote: »

mb10 wrote: »

Why are all the mag DKs moaning?

75% of your enemies are vampires in PVP and take 25% extra damage from your attacks.
Your resistance is the highest, you have dragon leap which is cheap, can't dodge it and hits like a truck, oh and it's a gap closer.

You have a good heal and your CCs are the best.

But no, you want a gap closer, execute and mobility too.

Lol what on Earth would be the point in playing ANY other class if we had that?

Those vamps are resisting thanks to elemental defender.

CCs are the best? in melee range maybe, but 90% of players run immovable pots, this is arguable.

Leap is a gap closer? It is an ultimate that can be blocked or dodged intime, compare it to any other cheap ulti or something that costs the same, it is not all that, not to mention the animation bugs you get stuck in half the time.

We do not "want " a gap closer, we mentioned LACKING a gap closer, it should be compensated, just like not having an execute, some compensation is worth considering.

You have very little info in how the mDk was before IC update, after and even today. You are probably being carried or running with a healer in Cyrodiil, or having some stamina guy with you while you CC and leap and he bursts.

DK is in a good spot

If being non-existent in PvP groups is a "good spot" then yeah I guess we're in a great spot.

You should actually try playing DK before commenting on its viability.

I play one and see them all the time on console. Especially in battlegrounds, mag DK specifically is very strong in battlegrounds. Not as strong as mag warden for BGs but that is almost entirely because of the healing ult.

It's arguably the weakest magicka class, even in BGs. Just because people can hold block while their teammates get KBs doesn't mean it's a strong class. Give me a group of 3 Magplars or 3 Magblades with a Warden any day of the week.

Who said anything about holding block? Perhaps you just built yours wrong?

Slow the roll on that hyperbole and perhaps your comments could be taken more seriously.

Mag DK's in general struggle to get KB's but that in no way eliminates their value or contribution. Secondly I have played with and against a few Mag DK's that got plenty of KB's.

In contrast Sorc's in general get plenty of KB's, but I've seen a ton of them that can't deal squat for damage and just grab KB's off their allies. Getting KB's only defines performance for teenagers who cant see beyond a particular K/D ratio. Same kids who go into a BGs on NB's and ignore the objectives while exalting that they went 5-0 by ganking solo players.

Yes and no.

If you are in a group, then I agree that getting killing blows is not particularly that important as there are other things a non-killer could do productively for their team. As to whether or not the DK offers just as many "other things" comapred to other classes is a matter of debate. I think it's very difficulty to quantify that and convincingly say a DK is better. I will grant chains can be useful, talons is strong, and eruption can have a role, but is anyone going to tell me they are better than Fear, corrupting Pollen, Encase, or Breath of Life?

You say slow the role on hyperbole and then equate getting killing blows as ONLY defining performance for teenagers. Physician, heal thyself. If you are not in a group, than killing blows are tantamount to winning and losing; in the open world alone, a DK has to get killing blows and multiple amounts or else it's rez at wayshrine.

That's because I don't see DK's lacking for killing blows because of an inability to kill opponents. Rather they lack because they do not have an execute and they are on the lower end of burst, so they lose killing blows to allies that they would otherwise get solo.

In BG's you are always in a group, whether you que'd in with those players or not. I made no claim that a Mag DK was strong solo in Cyrodiil. Although I have seen a few video's of some that did quite well for themselves.

I have actually played a match with two mag DK's, one stam DK, and a NB. All four players on my team did over 800k damage and beat both opposing teams which had dedicated healers that healed for over 500k. The highest damage dealer was a Mag DK at 1.2mil. I have seen Mag DK's go 20 and 0 in BG's. No it is not common, but it isn't entirely elusive or impossible.

Yes in general Mag DK's struggle to get KB's because they lack an execute, where other setups can get KB's. Trust me I've played a lot of bow builds and bow/bow builds, I'm very familiar with struggling to get KB's. Not having a strong execute does not break a class.

Notice I said KB's not Mag DK's cannot kill other players.

Some Solo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHYWTMIRhDU

This guy has healer die about 1min in:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmnY9LBdQjA

Some group:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsfxPLeBm2Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yL-gUtoz7Q

I'm not sure why people keep peddling this fallacious argument that the DKs pulling "1.2m damage" in BGs is somehow representative of the strengths of the class. Give me a teammate who does half as much overall damage but does it in burst windows resulting in kills any day over a DK who just spams weak AoEs and contributes little to a group's killing ability.

If you want videos, why don't you watch Kodi stream his mDK in open world. He's objectively one of the best players in the game and he'll tell you it's the weakest magicka class by a large margin.

If you hate it so much why do you even bother?

I see players not just doing okay, but excelling on Mag DK. Perhaps you should look elsewhere for your entertainment.

An individual player may be objectively good, that in no way equates to their ability to be objective. An individual players ranking system does not objectively prove anything. All players have bias, all players have preferences and habits. Some classes and play styles come more naturally and feel easier than others to specific people.

You stated:

Kilandros wrote: »

. . .
Just because people can hold block while their teammates get KBs doesn't mean it's a strong class. . .

I not only stated that this was false, I brought video evidence of the contrary. Mag DK's are not stuck with holding block and letting other players get kills. That is objectively false, perhaps those who build their DKs to hold block are doing this, but it is not a restriction of the class itself.

Anyone can string together selective video clips.

Of course it is selective clips.

If you want to quibble over what clips people choose to upload you need to provide a massive range of data over many characters constrained for gear, setups, group composition and opponents. Then you would need to sift the data to prove which classes are performing better over that range and what periods. Even then you couldn't possibly cover all sets, setups, or play styles.

The video's show that Mag DK's can in fact kill other players with significant proficiency. Controlling for every class, every setup, is not realistic. These videos are a rebuttal of the idea that Mag DK's can only stand around and block and hope someone else kills people.

reiverx wrote: »

I run in a small group. We are super efficient at wiping out larger groups. Everything I do on my mDK can be done better with other classes and that's the issue.

This proves literally nothing. Simply because you cannot see, are not using, or do not require the advantages of mag DK's does not equate to them having none. All this shows is that for your group and play style you have found other classes to be more beneficial.

Mag DK's have significant survivability and ability to control opposing players through Snares, roots, and CC's. They are quite capable of killing other players, as well as tanking damage, but lack an execute. As such their value grows in proportion to which the group shrinks. Which is why they are very strong in BG's, were fights are often between 3-6 players, but less so in Cyrodiil.


If you want to point out specific mechanics of Mag DK's and argue their lack of value that is a reasonable position. The argument that Mag DK's lack significantly advantageous group utility is in my opinion completely reasonable. ESO PVP is not however a zero sum game, many things are incredibly advantageous is certain scenario's while being relatively useless in others. Play style, group composition, setup, opponents, significantly effect the value of individual components.

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

reiverx wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

LordSlif wrote: »

ZoM_Head wrote: »

mb10 wrote: »

Why are all the mag DKs moaning?

75% of your enemies are vampires in PVP and take 25% extra damage from your attacks.
Your resistance is the highest, you have dragon leap which is cheap, can't dodge it and hits like a truck, oh and it's a gap closer.

You have a good heal and your CCs are the best.

But no, you want a gap closer, execute and mobility too.

Lol what on Earth would be the point in playing ANY other class if we had that?

Those vamps are resisting thanks to elemental defender.

CCs are the best? in melee range maybe, but 90% of players run immovable pots, this is arguable.

Leap is a gap closer? It is an ultimate that can be blocked or dodged intime, compare it to any other cheap ulti or something that costs the same, it is not all that, not to mention the animation bugs you get stuck in half the time.

We do not "want " a gap closer, we mentioned LACKING a gap closer, it should be compensated, just like not having an execute, some compensation is worth considering.

You have very little info in how the mDk was before IC update, after and even today. You are probably being carried or running with a healer in Cyrodiil, or having some stamina guy with you while you CC and leap and he bursts.

DK is in a good spot

If being non-existent in PvP groups is a "good spot" then yeah I guess we're in a great spot.

You should actually try playing DK before commenting on its viability.

I play one and see them all the time on console. Especially in battlegrounds, mag DK specifically is very strong in battlegrounds. Not as strong as mag warden for BGs but that is almost entirely because of the healing ult.

It's arguably the weakest magicka class, even in BGs. Just because people can hold block while their teammates get KBs doesn't mean it's a strong class. Give me a group of 3 Magplars or 3 Magblades with a Warden any day of the week.

Who said anything about holding block? Perhaps you just built yours wrong?

Slow the roll on that hyperbole and perhaps your comments could be taken more seriously.

Mag DK's in general struggle to get KB's but that in no way eliminates their value or contribution. Secondly I have played with and against a few Mag DK's that got plenty of KB's.

In contrast Sorc's in general get plenty of KB's, but I've seen a ton of them that can't deal squat for damage and just grab KB's off their allies. Getting KB's only defines performance for teenagers who cant see beyond a particular K/D ratio. Same kids who go into a BGs on NB's and ignore the objectives while exalting that they went 5-0 by ganking solo players.

Yes and no.

If you are in a group, then I agree that getting killing blows is not particularly that important as there are other things a non-killer could do productively for their team. As to whether or not the DK offers just as many "other things" comapred to other classes is a matter of debate. I think it's very difficulty to quantify that and convincingly say a DK is better. I will grant chains can be useful, talons is strong, and eruption can have a role, but is anyone going to tell me they are better than Fear, corrupting Pollen, Encase, or Breath of Life?

You say slow the role on hyperbole and then equate getting killing blows as ONLY defining performance for teenagers. Physician, heal thyself. If you are not in a group, than killing blows are tantamount to winning and losing; in the open world alone, a DK has to get killing blows and multiple amounts or else it's rez at wayshrine.

That's because I don't see DK's lacking for killing blows because of an inability to kill opponents. Rather they lack because they do not have an execute and they are on the lower end of burst, so they lose killing blows to allies that they would otherwise get solo.

In BG's you are always in a group, whether you que'd in with those players or not. I made no claim that a Mag DK was strong solo in Cyrodiil. Although I have seen a few video's of some that did quite well for themselves.

I have actually played a match with two mag DK's, one stam DK, and a NB. All four players on my team did over 800k damage and beat both opposing teams which had dedicated healers that healed for over 500k. The highest damage dealer was a Mag DK at 1.2mil. I have seen Mag DK's go 20 and 0 in BG's. No it is not common, but it isn't entirely elusive or impossible.

Yes in general Mag DK's struggle to get KB's because they lack an execute, where other setups can get KB's. Trust me I've played a lot of bow builds and bow/bow builds, I'm very familiar with struggling to get KB's. Not having a strong execute does not break a class.

Notice I said KB's not Mag DK's cannot kill other players.

Some Solo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHYWTMIRhDU

This guy has healer die about 1min in:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmnY9LBdQjA

Some group:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsfxPLeBm2Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yL-gUtoz7Q

I'm not sure why people keep peddling this fallacious argument that the DKs pulling "1.2m damage" in BGs is somehow representative of the strengths of the class. Give me a teammate who does half as much overall damage but does it in burst windows resulting in kills any day over a DK who just spams weak AoEs and contributes little to a group's killing ability.

If you want videos, why don't you watch Kodi stream his mDK in open world. He's objectively one of the best players in the game and he'll tell you it's the weakest magicka class by a large margin.

If you hate it so much why do you even bother?

I see players not just doing okay, but excelling on Mag DK. Perhaps you should look elsewhere for your entertainment.

An individual player may be objectively good, that in no way equates to their ability to be objective. An individual players ranking system does not objectively prove anything. All players have bias, all players have preferences and habits. Some classes and play styles come more naturally and feel easier than others to specific people.

You stated:

Kilandros wrote: »

. . .
Just because people can hold block while their teammates get KBs doesn't mean it's a strong class. . .

I not only stated that this was false, I brought video evidence of the contrary. Mag DK's are not stuck with holding block and letting other players get kills. That is objectively false, perhaps those who build their DKs to hold block are doing this, but it is not a restriction of the class itself.

Anyone can string together selective video clips.

Of course it is selective clips.

If you want to quibble over what clips people choose to upload you need to provide a massive range of data over many characters constrained for gear, setups, group composition and opponents. Then you would need to sift the data to prove which classes are performing better over that range and what periods. Even then you couldn't possibly cover all sets, setups, or play styles.

The video's show that Mag DK's can in fact kill other players with significant proficiency. Controlling for every class, every setup, is not realistic. These videos are a rebuttal of the idea that Mag DK's can only stand around and block and hope someone else kills people.

reiverx wrote: »

I run in a small group. We are super efficient at wiping out larger groups. Everything I do on my mDK can be done better with other classes and that's the issue.

This proves literally nothing. Simply because you cannot see, are not using, or do not require the advantages of mag DK's does not equate to them having none. All this shows is that for your group and play style you have found other classes to be more beneficial.

Mag DK's have significant survivability and ability to control opposing players through Snares, roots, and CC's. They are quite capable of killing other players, as well as tanking damage, but lack an execute. As such their value grows in proportion to which the group shrinks. Which is why they are very strong in BG's, were fights are often between 3-6 players, but less so in Cyrodiil.


If you want to point out specific mechanics of Mag DK's and argue their lack of value that is a reasonable position. The argument that Mag DK's lack significantly advantageous group utility is in my opinion completely reasonable. ESO PVP is not however a zero sum game, many things are incredibly advantageous is certain scenario's while being relatively useless in others. Play style, group composition, setup, opponents, significantly effect the value of individual components.

Do you even play magicka DK? It's really easy to watch other people play it and act like you know something about the mechanics of the class. But you clearly don't understand the class. Instead you're just making vapid arguments like saying mDK are "quite capable of killing other players," yet you don't give any meaningful explanation as to why you think they are capable of killing other players. You also say things like "Mag DK's have significant survivability," but you don't explain where you think that survivability comes from. I have 3 years experience playing mDK daily, and I can tell you that our survivability comes at the expense of our capability of killing other players, and vice versa. The fact that you pretend like those two things come naturally to the class and that they come in tandem speaks to how limited your experience playing mDK in open world is. If you had some actual experience, you would know that as a mDK to have good survivability you often have very limited kill potential. And that to have high kill potential, you have very limited survivability because you have neither the slippery mechanics of a NB nor the mobility of a Sorc.

Also, the fact that you rely on video clips is fairly suspect. 1vX montages and highlight reels have never been any kind of reliable indicator of class strength. I don't need to be on a particularly good class if I'm a great player and I'm fighting people who haven't yet discovered the strengths of impen, for example. Perhaps you think that those 1vX montages and highly reels are just par for the course every time a mDK logs in and goes into Cyrodiil. If that's what you think I'm afraid I can't help you. If you simply cannot live without videos, at least watch a stream of someone playing unedited fights--but relying on cherry-picked fights as being somehow indicative of what it's like to play the class when they are uploaded precisely because they are exceptional or standout clips is really quite naive. My best advice is to get a mDK and try playing it in open world to get a feel for the class. That's a far better way to understand the mechanics than watching videos and/or posting those videos in support of some nebulous argument on the forums.