paulsimonps wrote: »You guys are acting like the Asylum weapons were all purposefully designed to be PvP Weapons. They are good in both, but you guys want them in PvP without having to put in the work. And you can get them just slightly diminished version really easy, but you are complaining that you can get the better version cause you don't have the time/skills/social preference to get them. PvErs want those staffs too you know, and they are willing to put the work in. Be happy there are imperfect weapons to begin with, no such thing for Master and Mealstrom, but I'm repeating myself.
PvErs have to do PvP to get BiS Skills, you might say, "well that's way easier to get". But from looking at the forum history we can see MANY that don't want to do that, but want it anyway, its the same kind of complaining. You want something to be made easier cause you don't want to put in the work.
"Best players"... why is a guys, who dont play this part of game a more worse player, then this guys, who successful finish a HM Trial??
There isnt a difference mate. Both are player and both do well in the parts they want. When a guy just want to do solo content, he dont find access now to do this with best items. Maybe he dont need it, but maybe he want it..
For me it should be a way to craft this weapons as crafter too. Run the normal trial to collect parts from bosses. When you get 100 parts, you are able create this perfected weapons too (only 10 for inperfected). This would be a way to benefit "best crafter/best in what ever" too!
So with that logic I should get all PVP rewards like costumes, AP, Tel Var and Solo stuff like the Master Angler etc while I'm doing Trials?
Because I want them too.
And no you should never have easy access to BiS weapons like that wth crafting, unless the material only dropped on HM. But I much rather have a completely weapon drop.
The problem is, that BiS weapons now will only a reward of a HM of a trial. I allways thought this will not happen in TESO... i really thought you here its nearly only your skill level, what is important for your success. Until now you got all you need and BiS items without doing something special. You could work solo for it.
AND why should a crafter dont have same right to BiS gear? Its same logic. When they would implementate BiS weapons only for crafter, you would be angry, when you dont have leveled your craftingskills...
Well, I would like to drop Asylum weapons from veteran difficulty. This would make Asylum weapons as rare as MSA/DSA analogs.
Perfect Asylum weapons could be obtained from HM or weekly. Despite minor differences, this would be a pleasant reward for good players and teams.
I see no reason to make another master weapons accessible to all. It must be earned.
.The entitlement needs to stop. Not everyone needs to get BiS by doing ridiculously easy things.
To be honest 90% probably don't notice a difference between using different traits anyway. Because BiS gear only accounts for a small part of what you do, perfecting your rotations, getting used to mechanics and learning to play is much more important.
Let the people who put in serious hard work doing the hardest content in the game have proper rewards for once.
Just equipping BiS gear and weapons doesn't make you a good payer, that takes a lot of practice and work.
You know, you sound pretty entitled to me. You want a significant combat advantage that you think you don't actually need for putting in "serious hard work". Why not just be happy that there is a special reward for vet HM?
I'm willing to work for what I want, that's not entitlement.
Combat advantage? You work as a team, that's the most important part.
Well, I would like to drop Asylum weapons from veteran difficulty. This would make Asylum weapons as rare as MSA/DSA analogs.
Perfect Asylum weapons could be obtained from HM or weekly. Despite minor differences, this would be a pleasant reward for good players and teams.
I see no reason to make another master weapons accessible to all. It must be earned.
90% of complain here are about to give an another way to get it, most of us are PvPer and we are able to see how strong will be the destro staff in PvP
we don't want an easy way to have good pvp stuff (even if it's also really strong for PvE), we want a pvp way to get pvp stuff, there is a lack of reward on PvP and every new good PvP stuff are PvE... dungeon,undauted dailies and now vet trials OMG stop
PvP rewards useless in PvE, BiS for PvP and PvE rewards useless in PvP, BiS for PvE, perfectly logical and that's all I want
Not sure what OP is expecting as a result in the polls.
Obviously an abundance of players would like the perfect weapon to be easier to obtain. The forums often have threads from players wanting something to be easier, MA weapons dropping in nMA is something that has popped up from time to time.
Zos would also be aware of that so the poll would not sway them.
In the end it´s all about entitlement of a select few players that are able to and enjoy raiding for multiple hours on a couple of evenings a week.
I get they want something shiny. I vehemently disagree with making that bis gear in a game that shares gear for pve and pvp.
Either make the gear pve only or make it obtainable easier for people that can´t (for whatever reason)/don´t want to raid.
And this is coming from someone who enjoyed raiding tremendously (vet hm mol before one tam) before morrowind changes butchered the fun out of it.
Geargating is a thing that has a place in 2007 mmos - not 2017.
In the end it´s all about entitlement of a select few players that are able to and enjoy raiding for multiple hours on a couple of evenings a week.
I get they want something shiny. I vehemently disagree with making that bis gear in a game that shares gear for pve and pvp.
Either make the gear pve only or make it obtainable easier for people that can´t (for whatever reason)/don´t want to raid.
And this is coming from someone who enjoyed raiding tremendously (vet hm mol before one tam) before morrowind changes butchered the fun out of it.
Geargating is a thing that has a place in 2007 mmos - not 2017.
I mostly agree. There will be a lot amount of complaining from PvPers when this goes Live since they can only get "Imperfect" weapons.
Someone like me will beat Vet HM, but I doubt more than 2-3 groups on my server will even come close. Also beating this trial on Veteran is so underwhelming.
If Normal provides Imperfect Asylum weapons then Veteran has to give something to make it worth it. You don't even get Gold-quality jewelry from Vet! It is all behind Vet HM. Perfect Asyum weapons should be a Veteran reward even if only off a % chance imo. All of the really cool stuff can be Vet HM rewards. Gear shouldn't Vet HM only when so few people will ever beat it tbh.
It's fine as it is.
I don't even like the fact that the normal mode actually drops the weapons.
"Best players"... why is a guys, who dont play this part of game a more worse player, then this guys, who successful finish a HM Trial??
There isnt a difference mate. Both are player and both do well in the parts they want. When a guy just want to do solo content, he dont find access now to do this with best items. Maybe he dont need it, but maybe he want it..
For me it should be a way to craft this weapons as crafter too. Run the normal trial to collect parts from bosses. When you get 100 parts, you are able create this perfected weapons too (only 10 for inperfected). This would be a way to benefit "best crafter/best in what ever" too!
So with that logic I should get all PVP rewards like costumes, AP, Tel Var and Solo stuff like the Master Angler etc while I'm doing Trials?
Because I want them too.
And no you should never have easy access to BiS weapons like that wth crafting, unless the material only dropped on HM. But I much rather have a completely weapon drop.
The problem is, that BiS weapons now will only a reward of a HM of a trial. I allways thought this will not happen in TESO... i really thought you here its nearly only your skill level, what is important for your success. Until now you got all you need and BiS items without doing something special. You could work solo for it.
AND why should a crafter dont have same right to BiS gear? Its same logic. When they would implementate BiS weapons only for crafter, you would be angry, when you dont have leveled your craftingskills...
Haven't leveled my crafting skills?
I do all writs on all 14 characters every day, as all ahave every crafting skill learned. 7 know all 9 traits and have most motifs learned.
I'm working on second full Buoyant Armiger Motif for another character, and my main has all 52/52 Motifs learned.
Which part regards to crafting am I missing?
"Best players"... why is a guys, who dont play this part of game a more worse player, then this guys, who successful finish a HM Trial??
There isnt a difference mate. Both are player and both do well in the parts they want. When a guy just want to do solo content, he dont find access now to do this with best items. Maybe he dont need it, but maybe he want it..
For me it should be a way to craft this weapons as crafter too. Run the normal trial to collect parts from bosses. When you get 100 parts, you are able create this perfected weapons too (only 10 for inperfected). This would be a way to benefit "best crafter/best in what ever" too!
So with that logic I should get all PVP rewards like costumes, AP, Tel Var and Solo stuff like the Master Angler etc while I'm doing Trials?
Because I want them too.
And no you should never have easy access to BiS weapons like that wth crafting, unless the material only dropped on HM. But I much rather have a completely weapon drop.
The problem is, that BiS weapons now will only a reward of a HM of a trial. I allways thought this will not happen in TESO... i really thought you here its nearly only your skill level, what is important for your success. Until now you got all you need and BiS items without doing something special. You could work solo for it.
AND why should a crafter dont have same right to BiS gear? Its same logic. When they would implementate BiS weapons only for crafter, you would be angry, when you dont have leveled your craftingskills...
Haven't leveled my crafting skills?
I do all writs on all 14 characters every day, as all ahave every crafting skill learned. 7 know all 9 traits and have most motifs learned.
I'm working on second full Buoyant Armiger Motif for another character, and my main has all 52/52 Motifs learned.
Which part regards to crafting am I missing?
This was an Example. Congrats to your craftingskills... What do you want now? Recognition? Be happy that you have this "amazing" skills, but this doenst interest me
"Best players"... why is a guys, who dont play this part of game a more worse player, then this guys, who successful finish a HM Trial??
There isnt a difference mate. Both are player and both do well in the parts they want. When a guy just want to do solo content, he dont find access now to do this with best items. Maybe he dont need it, but maybe he want it..
For me it should be a way to craft this weapons as crafter too. Run the normal trial to collect parts from bosses. When you get 100 parts, you are able create this perfected weapons too (only 10 for inperfected). This would be a way to benefit "best crafter/best in what ever" too!
So with that logic I should get all PVP rewards like costumes, AP, Tel Var and Solo stuff like the Master Angler etc while I'm doing Trials?
Because I want them too.
And no you should never have easy access to BiS weapons like that wth crafting, unless the material only dropped on HM. But I much rather have a completely weapon drop.
The problem is, that BiS weapons now will only a reward of a HM of a trial. I allways thought this will not happen in TESO... i really thought you here its nearly only your skill level, what is important for your success. Until now you got all you need and BiS items without doing something special. You could work solo for it.
AND why should a crafter dont have same right to BiS gear? Its same logic. When they would implementate BiS weapons only for crafter, you would be angry, when you dont have leveled your craftingskills...
Haven't leveled my crafting skills?
I do all writs on all 14 characters every day, as all ahave every crafting skill learned. 7 know all 9 traits and have most motifs learned.
I'm working on second full Buoyant Armiger Motif for another character, and my main has all 52/52 Motifs learned.
Which part regards to crafting am I missing?
This was an Example. Congrats to your craftingskills... What do you want now? Recognition? Be happy that you have this "amazing" skills, but this doenst interest me
You were the one who brought it up, saying I didn't have crafting skills learned, so I'm curious, what am I missing?
"Best players"... why is a guys, who dont play this part of game a more worse player, then this guys, who successful finish a HM Trial??
There isnt a difference mate. Both are player and both do well in the parts they want. When a guy just want to do solo content, he dont find access now to do this with best items. Maybe he dont need it, but maybe he want it..
For me it should be a way to craft this weapons as crafter too. Run the normal trial to collect parts from bosses. When you get 100 parts, you are able create this perfected weapons too (only 10 for inperfected). This would be a way to benefit "best crafter/best in what ever" too!
So with that logic I should get all PVP rewards like costumes, AP, Tel Var and Solo stuff like the Master Angler etc while I'm doing Trials?
Because I want them too.
And no you should never have easy access to BiS weapons like that wth crafting, unless the material only dropped on HM. But I much rather have a completely weapon drop.
The problem is, that BiS weapons now will only a reward of a HM of a trial. I allways thought this will not happen in TESO... i really thought you here its nearly only your skill level, what is important for your success. Until now you got all you need and BiS items without doing something special. You could work solo for it.
AND why should a crafter dont have same right to BiS gear? Its same logic. When they would implementate BiS weapons only for crafter, you would be angry, when you dont have leveled your craftingskills...
Haven't leveled my crafting skills?
I do all writs on all 14 characters every day, as all ahave every crafting skill learned. 7 know all 9 traits and have most motifs learned.
I'm working on second full Buoyant Armiger Motif for another character, and my main has all 52/52 Motifs learned.
Which part regards to crafting am I missing?
This was an Example. Congrats to your craftingskills... What do you want now? Recognition? Be happy that you have this "amazing" skills, but this doenst interest me
You were the one who brought it up, saying I didn't have crafting skills learned, so I'm curious, what am I missing?
That just was an example. Just somethink like "When this WOULD only given for crafter..."
This wasnt adressed especially to you
Anne_Firehawk wrote: »@Derra
Let's be honest here, those weapons are gonna be so cancer in PVP
Can't wait for that perma concussion + chilled, specially in BGs. I'm waiting for the sword and board
In my opinion should be like this : normal -> Chance for imperfected - veteran -> guaranteed imperfected - veteran HM -> guaranteed perfected.
At the same time they should atleast have a chance from normal campaign leaderboards like master weapons had back in the day and same for BG leaderboards to give everyone a chance of getting them.
I don't know what the equivalent to hard/challenge is in PVP, if there even is one.
But just getting AP by zerging and repairing walls is not challenging and should not reward these.
Not sure there is any real challenge in PVP like PVE has with Veteran HM Trials, maybe something like having a group of 12 people controlling all thingies in cyrodiil or something. But that will be boosted and exploited as well.
I don't know what the equivalent to hard/challenge is in PVP, if there even is one.
But just getting AP by zerging and repairing walls is not challenging and should not reward these.
Not sure there is any real challenge in PVP like PVE has with Veteran HM Trials, maybe something like having a group of 12 people controlling all thingies in cyrodiil or something. But that will be boosted and exploited as well.
You need to understand that the biggest challenge to overcome for vet HM trials is getting 12 people together at the same time on multiple days a week who enjoy doing that content and are a little above average in their button pressing abilities.
There is nothing actually challenging in esos pve content apart from getting people who want to do it.
I don't know what the equivalent to hard/challenge is in PVP, if there even is one.
But just getting AP by zerging and repairing walls is not challenging and should not reward these.
Not sure there is any real challenge in PVP like PVE has with Veteran HM Trials, maybe something like having a group of 12 people controlling all thingies in cyrodiil or something. But that will be boosted and exploited as well.
You need to understand that the biggest challenge to overcome for vet HM trials is getting 12 people together at the same time on multiple days a week who enjoy doing that content and are a little above average in their button pressing abilities.
There is nothing actually challenging in esos pve content apart from getting people who want to do it.
I don't know what the equivalent to hard/challenge is in PVP, if there even is one.
But just getting AP by zerging and repairing walls is not challenging and should not reward these.
Not sure there is any real challenge in PVP like PVE has with Veteran HM Trials, maybe something like having a group of 12 people controlling all thingies in cyrodiil or something. But that will be boosted and exploited as well.
You need to understand that the biggest challenge to overcome for vet HM trials is getting 12 people together at the same time on multiple days a week who enjoy doing that content and are a little above average in their button pressing abilities.
There is nothing actually challenging in esos pve content apart from getting people who want to do it.
It's fine as it is.
I don't even like the fact that the normal mode actually drops the weapons.
Why do you feel 12man vet HM content should drop bis gear for pvp?
Why do you want pvp players to be forced in playing said content?
What could you / the game or just about anyone gain from forcing players to play content they don´t want because it´s geargating them?
Why is the title + disguise/skin no longer good enough as a vet HM reward?
paulsimonps wrote: »I don't know what the equivalent to hard/challenge is in PVP, if there even is one.
But just getting AP by zerging and repairing walls is not challenging and should not reward these.
Not sure there is any real challenge in PVP like PVE has with Veteran HM Trials, maybe something like having a group of 12 people controlling all thingies in cyrodiil or something. But that will be boosted and exploited as well.
You need to understand that the biggest challenge to overcome for vet HM trials is getting 12 people together at the same time on multiple days a week who enjoy doing that content and are a little above average in their button pressing abilities.
There is nothing actually challenging in esos pve content apart from getting people who want to do it.
Are you claiming that Veteran Maw of Lorkhaj HM is not challenging? Are you claiming that Veteran Halls of Fabrication is not challenging?
Also have not you just claimed this entire time that one of the biggest problems you had with this reward system was that it was "Too hard for most guilds". I see PvP Guilds with multiple 24 man raid groups all the time, but yet you claim that they can't find 12 people do to a Trial that would grant them BiS Gear for PvP. Cause I mean what would be so hard, after all "There is nothing actually challenging in esos pve content apart from getting people who want to do it." So you should be able to do vet Asylum HM WITH EASE NOW RIGHT?! Cause its not "challenging", and its just hard getting people for it. But as said there are multiple PvP Guild with large raid groups and I bet they would love a chance to get this weapons.
paulsimonps wrote: »I don't know what the equivalent to hard/challenge is in PVP, if there even is one.
But just getting AP by zerging and repairing walls is not challenging and should not reward these.
Not sure there is any real challenge in PVP like PVE has with Veteran HM Trials, maybe something like having a group of 12 people controlling all thingies in cyrodiil or something. But that will be boosted and exploited as well.
You need to understand that the biggest challenge to overcome for vet HM trials is getting 12 people together at the same time on multiple days a week who enjoy doing that content and are a little above average in their button pressing abilities.
There is nothing actually challenging in esos pve content apart from getting people who want to do it.
Are you claiming that Veteran Maw of Lorkhaj HM is not challenging? Are you claiming that Veteran Halls of Fabrication is not challenging?
Also have not you just claimed this entire time that one of the biggest problems you had with this reward system was that it was "Too hard for most guilds". I see PvP Guilds with multiple 24 man raid groups all the time, but yet you claim that they can't find 12 people do to a Trial that would grant them BiS Gear for PvP. Cause I mean what would be so hard, after all "There is nothing actually challenging in esos pve content apart from getting people who want to do it." So you should be able to do vet Asylum HM WITH EASE NOW RIGHT?! Cause its not "challenging", and its just hard getting people for it. But as said there are multiple PvP Guild with large raid groups and I bet they would love a chance to get this weapons.
Derra is right in that part, that trials just need training. When 12 guys could play like robots and could do exacly the same ever and ever again, so they would allways get nearly the same score ever and ever again. There are just few gamemechanics, which are lucky.
But that is the challange. Its not possible, that 12 guys play like robots. When you now compare it with PvP, there you cant win again and again allways with same tactic and you need to play much more tactically. Every situation need from you to react right, but you cant train situations. You will allways have a fight just 1 time. I like to do both, but in PvE its nothing more then training in my eyes.
paulsimonps wrote: »I don't know what the equivalent to hard/challenge is in PVP, if there even is one.
But just getting AP by zerging and repairing walls is not challenging and should not reward these.
Not sure there is any real challenge in PVP like PVE has with Veteran HM Trials, maybe something like having a group of 12 people controlling all thingies in cyrodiil or something. But that will be boosted and exploited as well.
You need to understand that the biggest challenge to overcome for vet HM trials is getting 12 people together at the same time on multiple days a week who enjoy doing that content and are a little above average in their button pressing abilities.
There is nothing actually challenging in esos pve content apart from getting people who want to do it.
Are you claiming that Veteran Maw of Lorkhaj HM is not challenging? Are you claiming that Veteran Halls of Fabrication is not challenging?
Also have not you just claimed this entire time that one of the biggest problems you had with this reward system was that it was "Too hard for most guilds". I see PvP Guilds with multiple 24 man raid groups all the time, but yet you claim that they can't find 12 people do to a Trial that would grant them BiS Gear for PvP. Cause I mean what would be so hard, after all "There is nothing actually challenging in esos pve content apart from getting people who want to do it." So you should be able to do vet Asylum HM WITH EASE NOW RIGHT?! Cause its not "challenging", and its just hard getting people for it. But as said there are multiple PvP Guild with large raid groups and I bet they would love a chance to get this weapons.
paulsimonps wrote: »paulsimonps wrote: »I don't know what the equivalent to hard/challenge is in PVP, if there even is one.
But just getting AP by zerging and repairing walls is not challenging and should not reward these.
Not sure there is any real challenge in PVP like PVE has with Veteran HM Trials, maybe something like having a group of 12 people controlling all thingies in cyrodiil or something. But that will be boosted and exploited as well.
You need to understand that the biggest challenge to overcome for vet HM trials is getting 12 people together at the same time on multiple days a week who enjoy doing that content and are a little above average in their button pressing abilities.
There is nothing actually challenging in esos pve content apart from getting people who want to do it.
Are you claiming that Veteran Maw of Lorkhaj HM is not challenging? Are you claiming that Veteran Halls of Fabrication is not challenging?
Also have not you just claimed this entire time that one of the biggest problems you had with this reward system was that it was "Too hard for most guilds". I see PvP Guilds with multiple 24 man raid groups all the time, but yet you claim that they can't find 12 people do to a Trial that would grant them BiS Gear for PvP. Cause I mean what would be so hard, after all "There is nothing actually challenging in esos pve content apart from getting people who want to do it." So you should be able to do vet Asylum HM WITH EASE NOW RIGHT?! Cause its not "challenging", and its just hard getting people for it. But as said there are multiple PvP Guild with large raid groups and I bet they would love a chance to get this weapons.
Derra is right in that part, that trials just need training. When 12 guys could play like robots and could do exacly the same ever and ever again, so they would allways get nearly the same score ever and ever again. There are just few gamemechanics, which are lucky.
But that is the challange. Its not possible, that 12 guys play like robots. When you now compare it with PvP, there you cant win again and again allways with same tactic and you need to play much more tactically. Every situation need from you to react right, but you cant train situations. You will allways have a fight just 1 time. I like to do both, but in PvE its nothing more then training in my eyes.
IF IT NEEDS TRAINING THEN IT MEANS IT REQUIRES A SKILL, WHY ELSE WOULD YOU NEED TO TRAIN?! If it was not "challenging" then why would you need to practice. Just cause it doesn't require the same skill as in PvP doesn't mean that PvE is still less. Reacting to mechanics, adjusting to situation as the same time you try to keep a rotation, or keep people healed through tons of AoEs, Keeping the boss positioned correctly while taking huge hits and trying to buff and debuff. Its not easy. If it was then get your raid guilds and go into vHoF and one shot HM. There is a skill to it or you wouldn't have to practice.