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You Guys Could Nerf Soul Assault Anytime Zos!
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StormWylf✭✭✭✭mmolegends44 wrote: »the title explains it all nothing left unsaid.
Well apparently not. There are four pages of some quality players telling you No.0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭TequilaFire wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »UppGRAYxDD wrote: »mmolegends44 wrote: »[snip]
[snip]
[snip]
But if we remove everything in the game that kills us, we don't need skill either.
Who said remove everything in the game that kills us? I said remove/change things in the game that remove skill.
So you actually need skill to kill people. Not everyone needs to abuse every broken sh*t in this game to kill people.
It is your opinion that soul assault is broken and you are entitled to it but it is your opinion not everyone's.
SA has counters and I use them on my stamblade so it does not negate the main defenses of medium armor builds.
Can't even remember the last time soul assault was the main reason I died on a death recap, I died because I made a mistake usually.
Feel free to enlighten people how they are supposed to counter it on a medium armor. Btw carrying a tree for LOS and zerging/zergsurfing are not counters.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on June 14, 2026 1:01PM1 -
Drdeath20✭✭✭✭✭
✭Soul assault is a problem??? Are you sure you dont mean destro ultimate stacking groups that use unstopable potions and gap close?
It really doesnt matter anyways. Its sickening to think about how much is wrong with pvp other than the actual skills.
Eso pvp is beyond redundant and generally filled with dedicated groups hunting down solo players and casuals, Even the below lvl 50 campaigns. This game is beyond repair0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »
@Waffennacht I know you make multiple classes so here I'm ask if your talking about your magplar or your pet sorc.How is dodge roll a direct counter to your survivability?For sorc you have shields which us your main defense I'm assuming your talking about crit surge curse is undodgebale and heal you,but your also have access to pets which heal you.Magplar have BOl and sweeps are undodgeable.So I'm confused by your statement that dodge roll hard counter your your survivability which isn't true for any clsss.Waffennacht wrote: »UppGRAYxDD wrote: »mmolegends44 wrote: »[snip]
[snip]
[snip]
If you could dodge roll everything, you'd be invincible.
The only defense against a medium armor build you described is to be offensive, which dodge roll counters.
Dodge roll is a direct hard counter to my survivability, SA is a hard counter to your off the charts offensive capabilities.
mSorc would be frag. Templar would be simply the distance traveled by dodge roll lol @ Templar mobility.
I'm saying Medium armor builds have such offensive capabilities the only counter play is to be offensive and constantly apply pressure. Roll Dodge prevents pressure and allows a medium build another chance at 20k stacked DMG (until console gets updated, I'm still experiencing them)
Undodgeable abilities are the only way to kill a dodge roller. SA and similar abilities are counters
Build another chance at 20k stacked DMG to which you can react using ur defense.
SA isnt something to which they can react using their defenses. Just like shieldbreaker isnt something to which sorcs can actually react using their defenses. Thats the difference.
And if procs are finally addressed it will also be harder for medium armor builds to dodge roll everything cause they will have to actually invest into dmg instead of relying on selene and viper and putting everything else into stamina regen.
ATM, imo, 2 GCDs isn't much of a defensive opportunity. But this could change in the update
It still doesnt bypass ur defences. Shieldbreaker does. And im prety sure u dont like shieldbreaker. Just how i dont like it when im on a sorc. Feel free to play a medium armor build without snb. The second someone SA you, the first thing u will say is "wtf is this BS". If you are in no CP u will probably melt before you even say that.
Actually the first time I ran medium no SnB I got insta gibbed by a proc NB... Soo... Yeah
Ok procs are broken. Whats ur point? You dont like procs so you want something equally broken against them? I understand that. I use SA against them too cause i know how effective it is. But i realise that what im doing to them isnt much better than what they are doing.
And this is how PVP ended up to the crap we have today.
I wasn't making a point, you told me to run medium without SnB and I did, and I only had problems with Stam proc NBs, not SA. I think you were trying to make some sort of point. But I dunno because soul assault isn't OP
You mean blocking it and taking roughly 10k dmg and blowing up ur whole stamina pool yeah obviously its fine. But two GCD to put up roughly 20k shields isnt a defensive opportunity.
Keep believing that abilities that ignore defenses are fine. I guess shieldbreaker is a fine set promoting skilled gameplay as well right?
I don't believe breaker to be OP.
I don't believe Knightslayer to be OP
I don't believe Oblivion Damage Glyphs will see play outside of the Torug builds.
Nerfs kill things
No skill kills PVP. There is a difference.
But its ok, when you believe that shieldbreaker and oblivion dmg are healthy for the game then there is really nothing else to talk about. I guess procs are good too and they didnt need nerfs right?
Oblivion damage is fine, especially at the amount it's at. -. Show me where Oblivion Damage can kill within two GCDs from a single player Then maybe your proc set comparison is appropriate.
But you can't.
You'll be hard pressed to prove to me that anything that requires more than 2-3 GCDs to kill is OP.
Also, do you hear any mag players say: "But we have to use our 4k costing wards to counter SA and then we have no Magicka left!" No.
A build with 2k Stam Regen should be fine in sustaining after SA
Viper alone wont kill you in 2 seconds. Selene alone wont kill you in 2 seconds. Its about unavoidable dmg. Oblivion dmg is the same crap. They were all prety much unavoidable dmg with no player skill involved.
Shieldbreaker is also the same crap. Just spamming left click and you have to take the dmg. Its not tied to player skill. Thats what kills PVP and it ends up so zergy and in this sh*tty state its in. Your thinking of whatever kills me in less 2-3 seconds is OP and whatever needs more than 2-3 second is balanced, is too simplistic and naive.
Your 4k costing wards argument is hilarious. Like seriously? Did you even think before posting it?
The ward fully absorbs the dmg. No dmg will go through as long as the ward is up and its going to take more than 1 tick. The 4k ward also returns back magicka on each tick up to 3 times. The other ward is cheaper and even bigger. The wards doesnt stop ur magicka regen. The wards doesnt punish you for using them cause its the defence u are supposed to use on a light armor build. It works fine.
Blocking on a medium armor build is gonna cost 2k+ stamina on each tick while allowing half of the dmg to go through and stopping ur regen. That will cost you almost 20k stam and u will still take a ton of dmg from it. Thats because blocking for an extended period of time on medium armor isnt recommended unless u have snb which has blocking passives.
If you wanted to actually make an analogy it would be soul assault goes through shields and its dodgeable and each tick must be dodged. So your options would be either block it with ur 10-15k stamina and run dry before the soul strike ends or dodge roll each tick with ur <1k regen. Wonder how far will that get you. Maybe if you are lucky enough you use an ice staff.
I actually block on my mag build.
But I don't just block for the whole duration...
I block too. Cause in reality SA is not the only thing coming at you. And when there is a lot of incoming dmg ill block too a couple of ticks if shields go down fast. If its just SA then shielding is the easiest thing.
If that scenario happens on a medium armor build, you are dead.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on June 14, 2026 1:02PM0 -
mmolegends44✭✭✭@StormWylf actually the title does says it all with people bickering with their opinions back and forth whether it's broken or not which is pathetic.0 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TequilaFire wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »UppGRAYxDD wrote: »mmolegends44 wrote: »[snip]
[snip]
[snip]
But if we remove everything in the game that kills us, we don't need skill either.
Who said remove everything in the game that kills us? I said remove/change things in the game that remove skill.
So you actually need skill to kill people. Not everyone needs to abuse every broken [snip] in this game to kill people.
It is your opinion that soul assault is broken and you are entitled to it but it is your opinion not everyone's.
SA has counters and I use them on my stamblade so it does not negate the main defenses of medium armor builds.
Can't even remember the last time soul assault was the main reason I died on a death recap, I died because I made a mistake usually.
Feel free to enlighten people how they are supposed to counter it on a medium armor. Btw carrying a tree for LOS and zerging/zergsurfing are not counters.
Flying blade into ambush followed by normal stamblade rotation of your choice.
Bull rush instead of avoidance, SA was designed to counter rolling so attack instead don't just stand there.
Works for me.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on June 14, 2026 1:02PM1 -
KingJ✭✭✭✭✭
✭
You lose all your credibility when you don't even know how the broke ability you are defending works.They made soul assault uninterruptible and not able to be purge 3 updates ago with just blocking it you lose 17k stam,you'll be near execute range if not in execute range.
You know unless your neeb you don't regen stam when blocking and blocking soul assault and healing cost 23-25k stam.If we add how much stam your would have gotten back its close to 35k.[snip] you don't regen stam while blocking, and currently blocking is the only counter to SA. Where does stam regen come into play here?
Make the player using it able to get CC'd. I'm fine with it being interruptible and undodgable, and it brings some sort of intelligent play to it where you can only use it with cc immunity rather than opening your burst with an ultimate and hope for the best.
Well I mean I'm fairly sure it doesn't burn through 30k stam per tick, ergo you should be able to withstand the final tick when your stam runs out. If not, that's your problem.
Just block it then without healing and heal when the soul assault has finished. I'm also fairly sure soul assault is interruptable.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on June 14, 2026 1:03PM2 -
Reverb✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Edited by ZOS_Mika on August 16, 2017 1:03PMBattle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. ~Friedrich Nietzsche2 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »Let me use pure facts.
I'm the player that achieved a 120k SA tool tip
No one runs 120k SA, in CP it's potentially 60-100k, in no CP it's 50-60
FYI, the 120k in no CP is 80k
That's pre battlespirit.
That means you're looking at 30-50k in CP or 25k-30k in no CP
That's 7.25k-12.5k per second in CP or 6.75k-7.25k per second in no CP
That's pre mitigation - it's up to you to decide your medium armor mitigation, but 15-20k resistance is to be expected I'm
That's potentially 0-10% mitigation imo.
That means you're looking at 6.5k - 12.5k CP or 6k -7.25k no CP
Factor in Vigor and/or Rally that's as little as 3-8k DMG per sec CP or 2-5k DMG per sec no CP
That's not even factoring in block.
It's really no different than WB spam.
Clearly not OP
2.25k - 4k vigor ticks in no CP? On a medium armor build? Pure facts? Wut?
You want pure facts?There's no need to show me anything, I've tested it myself.
For it to only deal 1/4th of health bar in damage, you pretty much need to be wearing S&B and/or heavy armor - or the person Soul Assaulting needs to have like 60k tooltip only.
With 60k tooltip, you're looking at:
30k (Battle Spirit)/3.5s=8571-17%(medium armor mitigation)->7114 -50% (Block modifier without S&B)->3557 -Vigor (around 1,5k/second if we're being generous)->2057 dmg/second while blocking on average, resulting in 7200 dmg total (around 1/3rd-1/4th of health bar).
120k tooltip? 5614 dmg on average per second & 19 650 total.
It's all a matter of how much damage you're stacking as the person using Soul Assault - but even the low damage ones force you to block & prevent you from cloaking (that's a big reason why jbeam is not as big of a problem, along with jbeam being interruptable as well) which is a death sentence in 1vX.
There you go. From people who actually play in medium armor. 7k-19k dmg after blocking it. Now add the 15k-20k stamina u lost. You were saying?2 -
mmolegends44✭✭✭@brandonv516 mhm you sound devasted?Edited by mmolegends44 on August 16, 2017 3:12AM0
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Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »Let me use pure facts.
I'm the player that achieved a 120k SA tool tip
No one runs 120k SA, in CP it's potentially 60-100k, in no CP it's 50-60
FYI, the 120k in no CP is 80k
That's pre battlespirit.
That means you're looking at 30-50k in CP or 25k-30k in no CP
That's 7.25k-12.5k per second in CP or 6.75k-7.25k per second in no CP
That's pre mitigation - it's up to you to decide your medium armor mitigation, but 15-20k resistance is to be expected I'm
That's potentially 0-10% mitigation imo.
That means you're looking at 6.5k - 12.5k CP or 6k -7.25k no CP
Factor in Vigor and/or Rally that's as little as 3-8k DMG per sec CP or 2-5k DMG per sec no CP
That's not even factoring in block.
It's really no different than WB spam.
Clearly not OP
2.25k - 4k vigor ticks in no CP? On a medium armor build? Pure facts? Wut?
You want pure facts?There's no need to show me anything, I've tested it myself.
For it to only deal 1/4th of health bar in damage, you pretty much need to be wearing S&B and/or heavy armor - or the person Soul Assaulting needs to have like 60k tooltip only.
With 60k tooltip, you're looking at:
30k (Battle Spirit)/3.5s=8571-17%(medium armor mitigation)->7114 -50% (Block modifier without S&B)->3557 -Vigor (around 1,5k/second if we're being generous)->2057 dmg/second while blocking on average, resulting in 7200 dmg total (around 1/3rd-1/4th of health bar).
120k tooltip? 5614 dmg on average per second & 19 650 total.
It's all a matter of how much damage you're stacking as the person using Soul Assault - but even the low damage ones force you to block & prevent you from cloaking (that's a big reason why jbeam is not as big of a problem, along with jbeam being interruptable as well) which is a death sentence in 1vX.
There you go. From people who actually play in medium armor. 7k-19k dmg after blocking it. Now add the 15k-20k stamina u lost. You were saying?
I'm saying your build must be weak.
Edit: yeah getting hit by multiple ults usually is a death sentence (and should be) in 1vXEdited by Waffennacht on August 16, 2017 3:20AM3 -
WaltherCarraway✭✭✭✭✭I have never seen, a post asking devs to nerf magicka dragonknight. Perhaps most of 'nerf magdk' post belongs to pre 1.2 era.
EDIT: i'm happy about it.Edited by WaltherCarraway on August 16, 2017 3:24AMBack from my last hiatus. 2021 a new start.1 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭TequilaFire wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »UppGRAYxDD wrote: »mmolegends44 wrote: »[snip]
[snip]
[snip]
But if we remove everything in the game that kills us, we don't need skill either.
Who said remove everything in the game that kills us? I said remove/change things in the game that remove skill.
So you actually need skill to kill people. Not everyone needs to abuse every broken [snip] in this game to kill people.
It is your opinion that soul assault is broken and you are entitled to it but it is your opinion not everyone's.
SA has counters and I use them on my stamblade so it does not negate the main defenses of medium armor builds.
Can't even remember the last time soul assault was the main reason I died on a death recap, I died because I made a mistake usually.
Feel free to enlighten people how they are supposed to counter it on a medium armor. Btw carrying a tree for LOS and zerging/zergsurfing are not counters.
Flying blade into ambush followed by normal stamblade rotation of your choice.
Bull rush instead of avoidance, SA was designed to counter rolling so attack instead don't just stand there.
Works for me.
Flying blade, into ambush, into incap, into execute. Thats 4 GCD assuming u used flying blade the exact same time the SA started (which is very highly unlikely) and assuming u are a stamblade. Medium armor builds are not just stamblades. And thats the entire duration of SA that you didnt block taking full dmg from a 50-60k at the very least tooltip and thats assuming u are not taking any other dmg. In short, you are dead. You are not the only one that thought of that solution mate. Not everyone is potato enough to stay at low hp before casting SA. Casting a shield before SA and that small chance of bull rush to succeed goes out the window. Back to blocking it i guess.
SA was designed to counter rolling. But why the hell is it Uninterruptible, gives CC immunity, permasnares and keeps people out of cloak? If someone is stupid enough to channel that *** in ur face u should be able to bash it.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on June 14, 2026 1:05PM3 -
Midori_Oku✭✭✭There are several counters actually. Block, ward spam, or LoS. It's not rocket science.
Edit: My favorite way to counter it though is to just face tank it with 5k+ health recovery and max resistances.
Edited by Midori_Oku on August 16, 2017 4:27AMMidori Oku - Female High Elf - Magicka Sorcerer
Allesse Nightvale - Female Wood Elf - Stamina Dragonknight
Raelette Velaoche - Female Breton - Magicka Templar1 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Let me use pure facts.
I'm the player that achieved a 120k SA tool tip
No one runs 120k SA, in CP it's potentially 60-100k, in no CP it's 50-60
FYI, the 120k in no CP is 80k
That's pre battlespirit.
That means you're looking at 30-50k in CP or 25k-30k in no CP
That's 7.25k-12.5k per second in CP or 6.75k-7.25k per second in no CP
That's pre mitigation - it's up to you to decide your medium armor mitigation, but 15-20k resistance is to be expected I'm
That's potentially 0-10% mitigation imo.
That means you're looking at 6.5k - 12.5k CP or 6k -7.25k no CP
Factor in Vigor and/or Rally that's as little as 3-8k DMG per sec CP or 2-5k DMG per sec no CP
That's not even factoring in block.
It's really no different than WB spam.
Clearly not OP
2.25k - 4k vigor ticks in no CP? On a medium armor build? Pure facts? Wut?
You want pure facts?There's no need to show me anything, I've tested it myself.
For it to only deal 1/4th of health bar in damage, you pretty much need to be wearing S&B and/or heavy armor - or the person Soul Assaulting needs to have like 60k tooltip only.
With 60k tooltip, you're looking at:
30k (Battle Spirit)/3.5s=8571-17%(medium armor mitigation)->7114 -50% (Block modifier without S&B)->3557 -Vigor (around 1,5k/second if we're being generous)->2057 dmg/second while blocking on average, resulting in 7200 dmg total (around 1/3rd-1/4th of health bar).
120k tooltip? 5614 dmg on average per second & 19 650 total.
It's all a matter of how much damage you're stacking as the person using Soul Assault - but even the low damage ones force you to block & prevent you from cloaking (that's a big reason why jbeam is not as big of a problem, along with jbeam being interruptable as well) which is a death sentence in 1vX.
There you go. From people who actually play in medium armor. 7k-19k dmg after blocking it. Now add the 15k-20k stamina u lost. You were saying?
I'm saying your build must be weak.
Edit: yeah getting hit by multiple ults usually is a death sentence (and should be) in 1vX
Not my build mate. Its prety clear you have never actually played in medium armor. Feel free to check kodi's latest video. A heavy armor warden, with fury (4k+ wpn dmg), in CP campaign. Vigor ticks crit 2.4k. Lol. Now feel free to check videos of the medium armor proctards in no CP. Plenty on youtube. 1.3k crit vigor ticks. Whats the words you used? Ah yes, pure facts.
Now use that 1.3k (which would mean u always crit which is prety much impossible but whatever) in ur example, and u have successfully created a scenario in which you take 8k-12k dmg after blocking in no CP which is about half of ur hp while wasting 60-70% of ur stamina.
Last time i checked soul assault isnt multiple ults. Its one ult. Where did u read multiple ults? 1vX is based on outplaying ur opponents with actual skill. Soul assault and crap like that eliminate that skill factor. That means its just numbers. You stack more and more numbers and you end with the [snip] PVP you see today. Its not about being able to 1vX. Its about having skill in the game so u can actually have healthy PVP.
Your knowledge about PVP and how it works is very limited or you are just biased and you will say just about anything to boost ur argument even after pure facts prove you wrong. Either way...
[edited for profanity bypass]Edited by ZOS_Icy on June 14, 2026 12:58PM3 -
Mojomonkeyman✭✭✭✭✭
✭I can see why medium armor players are pissed at the skill. But I ALSO see that well played medium armor builds can pretty much go on berserk mode almost untouched surrounded by equally well-played magicka builds NOT using SA. SA seems to be the only reliable way to shift momentum and actually pressure back. Even in noCP/BGs, the amount of dodges some builds can chain is unreal. Its simply not fun to endure endless burstslopes in light armor and see 80% of your agressive counter measures not connect. Again, and again, and again. Not. Fun.
Medium armor defense needs to be partly untied from dodge-roll or dodge-roll reworked to make for satisfying playing experience on both ends of the spectrum.
SA user speaking BG experience.Koma Grey, Chocolate Thunder, Little Mojo, Dagoth Mojo & Mojomancy0 -
IlCanis_LupuslI✭✭✭✭✭s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »
So you're saying they removed block? Okay then
Obviously you have never actually played PVP.
I obviously do otherwise I wouldn't know that blocking soul assault significantly lowers the damage it does per tick
Its a zergling skill, only effektive in Xvs1 situations
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on June 14, 2026 1:06PM
Xbox-EU-AD
Khajiit Night blade Healer(BiS for cuteness)-Flawless Conquerer Grand Overlord
Khajiit Stamsorc Werewolf, Flawless Conquerer (1st attempt ww form during the entire dungeon) main
Khajiit(Master Race) Templar Healer, Flawless Conquerer
Khajiit Stam dk, Flawless conquerer, 2nd attempt
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Werewolf Veteran player, Since Wrathstone-DLC "Raid-Wolf", 50k dps with fracture, Pvp Healer.0 -
Tonnopesce✭✭✭✭✭
✭Tonnopesce wrote: »s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »
So you're saying they removed block? Okay then
No but a single Soul assault will drain 30 k stamina in seconds
Then why do I have zero trouble blocking this in a magDK with 15k stam?
Not saying Soul Assault can't be effective -- I 2-3 shot people on magblade ganker with it. Said magblade is also toast if you catch her because I failed to detect your friend in stealth. It's a fair trade-off.
First of all 15k stamina is a lot,
Second dk's have buildt in block cost reduction and probably you are using s&b like 90% of the dk's.
A squishy magika set up with 10-14k stamina is going to suffer from it, honestly is not a problem for me con usually i break los to counter Soul assault.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on June 14, 2026 1:06PMSignature0 -
scrobey✭✭✭Tonnopesce wrote: »s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »
So you're saying they removed block? Okay then
No but a single Soul assault will drain 30 k stamina in seconds
Then why do I have zero trouble blocking this in a magDK with 15k stam?
Not saying Soul Assault can't be effective -- I 2-3 shot people on magblade ganker with it. Said magblade is also toast if you catch her because I failed to detect your friend in stealth. It's a fair trade-off.
Well a Mag dk isn't actively using stam as offense, so that's not a fair argument. Although I feel soul assault is pretty easy to defend... Lol
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on June 14, 2026 1:07PM1 -
SnubbS✭✭✭✭✭If you're using Soul Assault, then you're most likely an awful player or a zergling. It's only really effective against Stam characters who aren't using 1h/Shield, or players who are just being zerged down—and is probably the lowest skilled way of getting a kill. You just hit it and hope for the best—magsorcs can put down mines and force stam characters to gap close into them (If there aren't LoS opportunities)—but generally, it's a very 'Hit & Hope' sort of skill. It shouldn't have a place in the game, but a lot of things shouldn't have a place in the game.Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »
@Waffennacht I know you make multiple classes so here I'm ask if your talking about your magplar or your pet sorc.How is dodge roll a direct counter to your survivability?For sorc you have shields which us your main defense I'm assuming your talking about crit surge curse is undodgebale and heal you,but your also have access to pets which heal you.Magplar have BOl and sweeps are undodgeable.So I'm confused by your statement that dodge roll hard counter your your survivability which isn't true for any clsss.Waffennacht wrote: »UppGRAYxDD wrote: »mmolegends44 wrote: »[snip]
[snip]
[snip]
If you could dodge roll everything, you'd be invincible.
The only defense against a medium armor build you described is to be offensive, which dodge roll counters.
Dodge roll is a direct hard counter to my survivability, SA is a hard counter to your off the charts offensive capabilities.
mSorc would be frag. Templar would be simply the distance traveled by dodge roll lol @ Templar mobility.
I'm saying Medium armor builds have such offensive capabilities the only counter play is to be offensive and constantly apply pressure. Roll Dodge prevents pressure and allows a medium build another chance at 20k stacked DMG (until console gets updated, I'm still experiencing them)
Undodgeable abilities are the only way to kill a dodge roller. SA and similar abilities are counters
Build another chance at 20k stacked DMG to which you can react using ur defense.
SA isnt something to which they can react using their defenses. Just like shieldbreaker isnt something to which sorcs can actually react using their defenses. Thats the difference.
And if procs are finally addressed it will also be harder for medium armor builds to dodge roll everything cause they will have to actually invest into dmg instead of relying on selene and viper and putting everything else into stamina regen.
ATM, imo, 2 GCDs isn't much of a defensive opportunity. But this could change in the update
It still doesnt bypass ur defences. Shieldbreaker does. And im prety sure u dont like shieldbreaker. Just how i dont like it when im on a sorc. Feel free to play a medium armor build without snb. The second someone SA you, the first thing u will say is "wtf is this BS". If you are in no CP u will probably melt before you even say that.
Actually the first time I ran medium no SnB I got insta gibbed by a proc NB... Soo... Yeah
Ok procs are broken. Whats ur point? You dont like procs so you want something equally broken against them? I understand that. I use SA against them too cause i know how effective it is. But i realise that what im doing to them isnt much better than what they are doing.
And this is how PVP ended up to the crap we have today.
I wasn't making a point, you told me to run medium without SnB and I did, and I only had problems with Stam proc NBs, not SA. I think you were trying to make some sort of point. But I dunno because soul assault isn't OP
You mean blocking it and taking roughly 10k dmg and blowing up ur whole stamina pool yeah obviously its fine. But two GCD to put up roughly 20k shields isnt a defensive opportunity.
Keep believing that abilities that ignore defenses are fine. I guess shieldbreaker is a fine set promoting skilled gameplay as well right?
I don't believe breaker to be OP.
I don't believe Knightslayer to be OP
I don't believe Oblivion Damage Glyphs will see play outside of the Torug builds.
Nerfs kill things
No skill kills PVP. There is a difference.
But its ok, when you believe that shieldbreaker and oblivion dmg are healthy for the game then there is really nothing else to talk about. I guess procs are good too and they didnt need nerfs right?
Oblivion damage is fine, especially at the amount it's at. -. Show me where Oblivion Damage can kill within two GCDs from a single player Then maybe your proc set comparison is appropriate.
But you can't.
You'll be hard pressed to prove to me that anything that requires more than 2-3 GCDs to kill is OP.
Also, do you hear any mag players say: "But we have to use our 4k costing wards to counter SA and then we have no Magicka left!" No.
A build with 2k Stam Regen should be fine in sustaining after SA
Of course you don't hear that, it's preposterous. Firstly, Wards are overperforming in terms of negating single target damage. Secondly, Harness is essentially going to be free of cost in the scenario where I'm being Soul Assaulted. Harness is an 9k~ Ward, Soul assault ticks for 4-5k on it, it procs the resource return, you're essentially blocking it for free. Even if it ticked for 9k you'd still be using far less resources to "block" the damage than a Stam build.
I main MagDK, I get hit by a Soul Assault & it takes nothing to counter it. Block>Bar-Swap>Mistform, and they've wasted their ult on nothing. A Stamblade with 21k health? LOL.Waffennacht wrote: »UppGRAYxDD wrote: »mmolegends44 wrote: »[snip]
[snip]
[snip]
If you could dodge roll everything, you'd be invincible.
The only defense against a medium armor build you described is to be offensive, which dodge roll counters.
Dodge roll is a direct hard counter to my survivability, SA is a hard counter to your off the charts offensive capabilities.
That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard as it asserts that SA is the "Hard counter" needed to kill Medium Armor StamBuilds. Medium armor users are by far the easiest thing to kill in Cyrodiil without SA—it isn't even close. You don't need SA to kill them, there are better abilities to use which also perform well at tasks other than Zerging someone down. The ability needs to be redesigned into something more universally useful like Dawnbreaker. Perhaps it could be something such as a bomb which is applied to the target that explodes after 2 seconds, deals 6 meter AoE and has very similar damage scaling to Dawnbreaker. Something such as that, something which deals high damage, is unavoidable (is blockable) and yet doesn't unevenly drain half the resource pool of half the builds in the game. Something like that would be beneficial to more players, and be far more widely used than SA.Waffennacht wrote: »
@Waffennacht I know you make multiple classes so here I'm ask if your talking about your magplar or your pet sorc.How is dodge roll a direct counter to your survivability?For sorc you have shields which us your main defense I'm assuming your talking about crit surge curse is undodgebale and heal you,but your also have access to pets which heal you.Magplar have BOl and sweeps are undodgeable.So I'm confused by your statement that dodge roll hard counter your your survivability which isn't true for any clsss.Waffennacht wrote: »UppGRAYxDD wrote: »mmolegends44 wrote: »[snip]
[snip]
[snip]
If you could dodge roll everything, you'd be invincible.
The only defense against a medium armor build you described is to be offensive, which dodge roll counters.
Dodge roll is a direct hard counter to my survivability, SA is a hard counter to your off the charts offensive capabilities.
mSorc would be frag. Templar would be simply the distance traveled by dodge roll lol @ Templar mobility.
I'm saying Medium armor builds have such offensive capabilities the only counter play is to be offensive and constantly apply pressure. Roll Dodge prevents pressure and allows a medium build another chance at 20k stacked DMG (until console gets updated, I'm still experiencing them)
Undodgeable abilities are the only way to kill a dodge roller. SA and similar abilities are counters
"Undodgeable abilities are the only way to kill a dodge roller"
No.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on June 14, 2026 1:09PM5 -
amir412✭✭✭✭✭
✭Its fine, just need more ult cost.
When player using this skill, in the duration he is exposed to taking alot of dmg - enough time to burst him when the duration is over the turn around the situation.0 -
Drummerx04✭✭✭✭✭
✭Honestly, the risk/reward balance on this skill is probably the most extreme out of every ult besides maybe bow ult (since that can be dodged).
This skill deals pretty laughable damage if you aren't set up for good damage which generally means not very tanky. If there is anyone else attacking you when the soul assault goes out, then anyone with half a brain will focus you because they know for a fact that you are not blocking and the caster is also snared during the channel. If I am fighting outnumbered against even half competent players, SA is basically useful as an execute only.
In cases where you are being Xv1ed in the open with no LoS, SA is just a time saver. Would you really have felt happier dodge rolling 5 more times and THEN running out of stam and getting killed by the raid chasing you? Is that really an improvement in your game play experience?
You want to know a really low risk/high reward cheap ult is? Dawnbreaker: Undodgeable again, high damage, instant, no telegraph or warning, CC in a cone, strong dot sticking to all affected targets.
SA has actual risks involved with use.PC/NA - Nightfighters, Raid Leader and Officer
Lilith Arujo - DC sorc tank/dps/healer - Dro-m'Athra Destroyer, Gryphon Heart, Grand Warlord
Lilith Tortorici - DC templar trials healer
Notable Completions:
vAS (72k), vMoL HM (160k), vAA HM (135k), vHRC HM, vSO HM (141k), vHoF HM (168k), vCR+3(129k), vDSA 45k, vMA 591k
Original Addons:
Lilith's Group Manager
Lilith's Lazy Hacks - Auto Recharge/Repair
Bot Scanner 2000
Lilith's Command History
Maintained Addons:
Kill Counter3 -
Koensol✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
What a [snip] argument. Seriously, if you are not nb with cloak and using medium armor in pvp and soul assault is casted on you midfight, you are dead. Period. LOS isn't always there to save you. Soul Assault is just a cheese ability. It has no place in the current game where certain builds in medium armor have very little counters against it. This doesn't mean the build is weak or w/e. That is just a weak knee jerk argument.Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Let me use pure facts.
I'm the player that achieved a 120k SA tool tip
No one runs 120k SA, in CP it's potentially 60-100k, in no CP it's 50-60
FYI, the 120k in no CP is 80k
That's pre battlespirit.
That means you're looking at 30-50k in CP or 25k-30k in no CP
That's 7.25k-12.5k per second in CP or 6.75k-7.25k per second in no CP
That's pre mitigation - it's up to you to decide your medium armor mitigation, but 15-20k resistance is to be expected I'm
That's potentially 0-10% mitigation imo.
That means you're looking at 6.5k - 12.5k CP or 6k -7.25k no CP
Factor in Vigor and/or Rally that's as little as 3-8k DMG per sec CP or 2-5k DMG per sec no CP
That's not even factoring in block.
It's really no different than WB spam.
Clearly not OP
2.25k - 4k vigor ticks in no CP? On a medium armor build? Pure facts? Wut?
You want pure facts?There's no need to show me anything, I've tested it myself.
For it to only deal 1/4th of health bar in damage, you pretty much need to be wearing S&B and/or heavy armor - or the person Soul Assaulting needs to have like 60k tooltip only.
With 60k tooltip, you're looking at:
30k (Battle Spirit)/3.5s=8571-17%(medium armor mitigation)->7114 -50% (Block modifier without S&B)->3557 -Vigor (around 1,5k/second if we're being generous)->2057 dmg/second while blocking on average, resulting in 7200 dmg total (around 1/3rd-1/4th of health bar).
120k tooltip? 5614 dmg on average per second & 19 650 total.
It's all a matter of how much damage you're stacking as the person using Soul Assault - but even the low damage ones force you to block & prevent you from cloaking (that's a big reason why jbeam is not as big of a problem, along with jbeam being interruptable as well) which is a death sentence in 1vX.
There you go. From people who actually play in medium armor. 7k-19k dmg after blocking it. Now add the 15k-20k stamina u lost. You were saying?
I'm saying your build must be weak.
Edit: yeah getting hit by multiple ults usually is a death sentence (and should be) in 1vX
[edited for profanity bypass]Edited by ZOS_Icy on June 14, 2026 1:11PM3 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »
@Waffennacht I know you make multiple classes so here I'm ask if your talking about your magplar or your pet sorc.How is dodge roll a direct counter to your survivability?For sorc you have shields which us your main defense I'm assuming your talking about crit surge curse is undodgebale and heal you,but your also have access to pets which heal you.Magplar have BOl and sweeps are undodgeable.So I'm confused by your statement that dodge roll hard counter your your survivability which isn't true for any clsss.Waffennacht wrote: »UppGRAYxDD wrote: »mmolegends44 wrote: »[snip]
[snip]
[snip]
If you could dodge roll everything, you'd be invincible.
The only defense against a medium armor build you described is to be offensive, which dodge roll counters.
Dodge roll is a direct hard counter to my survivability, SA is a hard counter to your off the charts offensive capabilities.
mSorc would be frag. Templar would be simply the distance traveled by dodge roll lol @ Templar mobility.
I'm saying Medium armor builds have such offensive capabilities the only counter play is to be offensive and constantly apply pressure. Roll Dodge prevents pressure and allows a medium build another chance at 20k stacked DMG (until console gets updated, I'm still experiencing them)
Undodgeable abilities are the only way to kill a dodge roller. SA and similar abilities are counters
Build another chance at 20k stacked DMG to which you can react using ur defense.
SA isnt something to which they can react using their defenses. Just like shieldbreaker isnt something to which sorcs can actually react using their defenses. Thats the difference.
And if procs are finally addressed it will also be harder for medium armor builds to dodge roll everything cause they will have to actually invest into dmg instead of relying on selene and viper and putting everything else into stamina regen.
ATM, imo, 2 GCDs isn't much of a defensive opportunity. But this could change in the update
It still doesnt bypass ur defences. Shieldbreaker does. And im prety sure u dont like shieldbreaker. Just how i dont like it when im on a sorc. Feel free to play a medium armor build without snb. The second someone SA you, the first thing u will say is "wtf is this BS". If you are in no CP u will probably melt before you even say that.
Actually the first time I ran medium no SnB I got insta gibbed by a proc NB... Soo... Yeah
Ok procs are broken. Whats ur point? You dont like procs so you want something equally broken against them? I understand that. I use SA against them too cause i know how effective it is. But i realise that what im doing to them isnt much better than what they are doing.
And this is how PVP ended up to the crap we have today.
I wasn't making a point, you told me to run medium without SnB and I did, and I only had problems with Stam proc NBs, not SA. I think you were trying to make some sort of point. But I dunno because soul assault isn't OP
You mean blocking it and taking roughly 10k dmg and blowing up ur whole stamina pool yeah obviously its fine. But two GCD to put up roughly 20k shields isnt a defensive opportunity.
Keep believing that abilities that ignore defenses are fine. I guess shieldbreaker is a fine set promoting skilled gameplay as well right?
I don't believe breaker to be OP.
I don't believe Knightslayer to be OP
I don't believe Oblivion Damage Glyphs will see play outside of the Torug builds.
Nerfs kill things
No skill kills PVP. There is a difference.
But its ok, when you believe that shieldbreaker and oblivion dmg are healthy for the game then there is really nothing else to talk about. I guess procs are good too and they didnt need nerfs right?
You'll be hard pressed to prove to me that anything that requires more than 2-3 GCDs to kill is OP.
Also, do you hear any mag players say: "But we have to use our 4k costing wards to counter SA and then we have no Magicka left!" No.
A build with 2k Stam Regen should be fine in sustaining after SA
No, a build with 2k stam regen is not fine in surviving SA if you don't use S&B. You apparently don't play any stam character, so sadly your input is incorrect.
I play pretty much every class, except stamsorc and magplar.
You can spam shield through beam of doom. Have done it all the time.
You can hold block through beam of doom with your permablock builds. Have done it all the time.
You cannot hold block through beam of doom with a bow or a two-handed. Well, technically you can, but it deletes your stam pool so you die after that.
Increase the damage tick through block to make it more viable against perma block builds, but make it interruptible with bash. That's how you balance thigns and promote skillful plays.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on June 14, 2026 1:12PMAldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!4 -
FloppyTouch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭So no class has any issue with this ability but medium armor stam NB...
Seems fine to me0 -
Koensol✭✭✭✭✭
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Actually, stamnb have the best counter against soul assault in the game: Cloak. It's other medium armor builds that bite the inevitable dust if its casted on you midfight without any LOS nearby.FloppyTouch wrote: »So no class has any issue with this ability but medium armor stam NB...
Seems fine to me
5 -
Malmai✭✭✭✭✭
✭Reroll Mag Sorc best solution AAA OP [snip] Class thx ZOS...
[edited for profanity bypass]Edited by ZOS_Icy on June 14, 2026 1:13PM2 -
Pastas✭✭✭FloppyTouch wrote: »So no class has any issue with this ability but medium armor stam NB...
Seems fine to me
You are wrong, all medium armour users are having issues with SA. in fact NB is the only one who has a good counter, you can cloak SA after 2 seconds. Thats why most of not NB stam builds are using HA.
Seems like ZoS wants everybody running heavy armour and S&B in pvp.Edited by Pastas on August 16, 2017 10:31AMWARNINGThis post may Include horrible gramatical and orthographic errorsRead on your own riskAD
Dar'foo Stamblade Zorg-gro-Wurf DK tank Far-Datxo Templar healer Valmir Spellius Magsorc
Randolf Omberic Magblade Felien Golas Magdk Faenor Oakwood Stamplar Sader Dustorm Stamsorc
EP
Do'Ragash Stamdk Caius Grachus Stamden Dalyne Narus Magplar
DC
Melkar Spellius MagdenPC EU3
you