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PvE content difficulty Relative to Nerfs lately. Should it be adjusted?
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ecru✭✭✭✭✭
✭Compared to other mmo's, ESO content is very easy. Raiders from other games with difficult content would breeze through everything in the game. I really don't think anything needs to be nerfed.Gryphon Heart
Godslayer
Dawnbringer1 -
Honghua✭✭✭YesMLGProPlayer wrote: »
There are plenty of noob-friendly guilds that run and complete vet trials regularly (they only require 15-20k DPS). You don't need to practice for months to clear them. That's only if you want to get on leader boards.
The main reason why most people don't participate in trials is that organising a group of 12 people is a pain in the ass. The actual content isn't that hard.
And what part of the community actually is able to pull out that number?
Edited by Honghua on August 14, 2017 10:42AM0 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes
Smoothed out perhaps, but the top of the cliff doesn't need to be any lower. We need a platform/base camp between the bottom of the valley and the top of the cliff.Doctordarkspawn wrote: »The cliff between normal and vet needs filed down.
I never said the cliff needs to be lower. I just said it needs to stop being a sheer cliff and something scaleable.
The game needs to be better at teaching and be better to pick up, and to clearly define what is a hammer and a screwdriver, and teach you to use those tools effectively.2 -
Seri✭✭✭✭
You said file down. Generally if you file something down it gets smaller, hence my comment.Doctordarkspawn wrote: »
Smoothed out perhaps, but the top of the cliff doesn't need to be any lower. We need a platform/base camp between the bottom of the valley and the top of the cliff.Doctordarkspawn wrote: »The cliff between normal and vet needs filed down.
I never said the cliff needs to be lower. I just said it needs to stop being a sheer cliff and something scaleable.
EP CP160+ Templar, Sorc, NB
DC CP160+ Templar, Sorc, DK0 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes
You said file down. Generally if you file something down it gets smaller, hence my comment.Doctordarkspawn wrote: »
Smoothed out perhaps, but the top of the cliff doesn't need to be any lower. We need a platform/base camp between the bottom of the valley and the top of the cliff.Doctordarkspawn wrote: »The cliff between normal and vet needs filed down.
I never said the cliff needs to be lower. I just said it needs to stop being a sheer cliff and something scaleable.
That particular phrase was ambiguous, but the context -around- it you picked the quote from says more than the line on it's own.
Quotemining is bad, mmkay?1 -
Magdalina✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭YesNelson_Rebel wrote: »Yes, Zenimax really needs to buff open world content already so people actually have an incentive to l2p and having to avoid red, bash heavies, dodge specials and follow mechanics in dungeons doesn't come as such an unbearable shock to them>.<
Edit: You asked if ZOS should look into PvE adjustments and that's what I have answered. Perhaps it'd give a clearer picture to ask what kind of adjustments people want instead
I welcome both.
If you want to disincentive playing the game for others that's your opinion.
I want to incentive it. What is the incentive of doing content where bosses die before you can even see their mechanics(even on a fresh no cp char in crap gear)? Sure there's the story. I love the story. But every single part of the story in ESO revolves around fighting in one way or the other. I want my fighting to feel epic, to feel I'm actually saving the world, like I'm getting stronger and overcoming formerly unbeatable things rather than "you say your elite elvish marines are getting slaughtered by a giant daedra? Kk, lemme light attack it a few times rq. There, dead and done". Not only it's counter-progressive - it teaches people it's fine to stand in red, never block, bash, dodge and watch for monsters' cues, which then screws with them hardcore in vet content - it's not even immersive. How can you feel proud of saving people when you kill the big bad boss threatening them before even noticing it's a boss, then spend 5 mins looking for it only to realize that thing you light attacked off handedly on your way was the big bad boss?
And then comes vet content. There should be a stairs, a learning curve with gradual progression on each step prior to that content but instead people come to vet content without knowing how to block, breakfree, bash or even use backbar sometimes and run into a solid wall. And there's no stairs to climb. Yet there're other people who pull literally ten times their dps and faceroll this very content - because they've either climbed the stairs back when they still were there or are into alpinism and don't mind climbing walls. There's a giant gap there that's only growing bigger with each nerf(because they're nerfing the few things that actually try to teach people how to follow mechanics, which means next time people run into mechanically heavy content they will be even LESS prepared for it) and this gap is killing this game and its community.3 -
Olupajmibanan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NoDepends of what content we are talking about. 4-man vets are easy cheesy as usual.
Maelstrom arena, my average score went down but nothing significant.
Trials are a little harder but doable.
Only problem with PvE content I have is that 4 mans are too freaking easy. And the only challenging ones are gettig nerfed today. Well done.Edited by Olupajmibanan on August 14, 2017 11:05AM3 -
sekou_trayvond✭✭✭✭✭YesI'm curious to see what the content is like after today's update.
Back when they released MW, the stated goal of the changes was to create a new "baseline," per Mr. Wrobel, if memory serves.
Fair enough. I didn't particularly like it so instead have played more PvP than ever before. The sustain issues are much less pronounced out there, IMO, so I was able to remain engaged with the game and work on improving myself at PvP.
Now with today's update, I have some hope that our side of the ledger is getting nudged back up, thus allowing us to put out more damage once again. Particularly, my stam sorc crit build may really jump back up in performance. But we'll see, I suppose.
My thoughts could be all wishful thinking and I'll remain out in Cyro so as to generally avoid the MW sustain pain.
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Athrys5✭✭✭NoEasy pve content. Anyway DPS is going to be higher in Horns of the Reach. Check some Alcast's DPS tests, DPS is gonna be insane and as a result PvE content is gonna be even more easier. Btw sustain is not that bad with witchmother + drain magicka poisons.Edited by Athrys5 on August 14, 2017 11:06AMEU - PC
Athryss2 -
Nelson_Rebel✭✭✭✭✭
✭YesKurkikohtaus wrote: »Your poll question is absurd and non-sensical:
"PvE content difficulty Relative to Nerfs lately"
Yes/No?
If you are going to make a poll, at least make an effort to state clearly what people are voting for in the poll question.
I very clearly made an effort to tell you that the poll is an opinionated poll where I believe imo PvE is to harsh for the endgame trial community and needs to be looked into
Yes
No
Other
Completely covers any basis for a discussion.
I'll break it down barney style for you
Yes- You agree PvE content is too difficult and should be looked into
No- You don't agree PvE endgame content is too difficult and is fine
Other- For any OTHER input.
Pretty damn clear to me. YOU just didn't put any time to actually read my Post lmaoEdited by Nelson_Rebel on August 14, 2017 11:13AM1 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NoDoctordarkspawn wrote: »I dont really understand what yes or No was supposed to convey, so I'ma go ahed and just give my honest thoughts.
The game needs taken a serious look at. Time and again our damage capacity is nerfed and many boss mechanics reliant on DPS are never touched. This is why I have decried the nerfs over and over and I think this needs to change.
Nerfs have allways been a punishment for growing too powerfull with this company. I've been saying it since Homestead, and even before. Eventually, we will hit a point where we will not do enough DPS to be able to complete the content.
And yet DPS has gone up with every patch...Edited by MLGProPlayer on August 14, 2017 11:14AM2 -
Seri✭✭✭✭
You also did mention the inaccessibility of upper content, which along with decrying prior nerfs (without subsequently also nerfing PvE content). I will happily concede that there is a cliff-face, and I don't think I've argued against adding other tutorials or stepping stones previously to help players get up to the higher tier content. Unfortunately you followed up with what sounded like a solution (lowering the cliff) to the inaccessible problem, thus the confusion.Doctordarkspawn wrote: »
You said file down. Generally if you file something down it gets smaller, hence my comment.Doctordarkspawn wrote: »
Smoothed out perhaps, but the top of the cliff doesn't need to be any lower. We need a platform/base camp between the bottom of the valley and the top of the cliff.Doctordarkspawn wrote: »The cliff between normal and vet needs filed down.
I never said the cliff needs to be lower. I just said it needs to stop being a sheer cliff and something scaleable.
That particular phrase was ambiguous, but the context -around- it you picked the quote from says more than the line on it's own.
As is being ambiguous with a sentence which could be misconstrued as a solution or fixQuotemining is bad, mmkay?
Edited by Seri on August 14, 2017 11:18AMEP CP160+ Templar, Sorc, NB
DC CP160+ Templar, Sorc, DK2 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭YesMLGProPlayer wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »I dont really understand what yes or No was supposed to convey, so I'ma go ahed and just give my honest thoughts.
The game needs taken a serious look at. Time and again our damage capacity is nerfed and many boss mechanics reliant on DPS are never touched. This is why I have decried the nerfs over and over and I think this needs to change.
Nerfs have allways been a punishment for growing too powerfull with this company. I've been saying it since Homestead, and even before. Eventually, we will hit a point where we will not do enough DPS to be able to complete the content.
And yet DPS has gone up with every patch...
In terms of some specs have got an edge while others have been put down.
The power merely shifts. I still stick by my words, however, ZOS is fighting a battle in the wrong place. They should be examining core game design.1 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes
You also did mention the inaccessibility of upper content, which along with decrying prior nerfs (without subsequently also nerfing PvE content). I will happily concede that there is a cliff-face, and I don't think I've argued against adding other tutorials or stepping stones previously to help players get up to the higher tier content. Unfortunately you followed up with what sounded like a solution (lowering the cliff) to the inaccessible problem, thus the confusion.Doctordarkspawn wrote: »
You said file down. Generally if you file something down it gets smaller, hence my comment.Doctordarkspawn wrote: »
Smoothed out perhaps, but the top of the cliff doesn't need to be any lower. We need a platform/base camp between the bottom of the valley and the top of the cliff.Doctordarkspawn wrote: »The cliff between normal and vet needs filed down.
I never said the cliff needs to be lower. I just said it needs to stop being a sheer cliff and something scaleable.
That particular phrase was ambiguous, but the context -around- it you picked the quote from says more than the line on it's own.
As is being ambiguous with a sentence which could be misconstrued as a solution or fixQuotemining is bad, mmkay?
No.
I advocated re-examining how the game does the holy trinity, and class and weapon skills and how they fit -into- that trinity, in an effort to maximize the ammount of things the player can learn without ever typing a word into a web browser, and helping them gain affinity with the tools in the process. I advocating making players and they're tools better without buffs, not nerfing content.
I've also advocated in the past, improving the difficulty system by adding more steps in the ladder, and throwing the holy trinity a bone by having talent tree's for each class based on that roles and how those classes do those roles. DK tanks will be more traditional, while templar might be a healtank-group healer hybrid.
Either you didn't read, didn't understand, or are lying about my position intentionally. Eitherway, cease and desist.Edited by Doctordarkspawn on August 14, 2017 11:36AM1 -
phileunderx2✭✭✭✭✭
✭Many of us that have max cp and master crafter at our disposal I think forget how it is to play without these things. Definitely not as easy. I feel this is a main reason for our "the game is too easy\hard debates. " that we have been having. Pugging is a crap shoot. You either struggle to finish or you just destroy everything.1 -
MCBIZZLE300✭✭✭✭✭YesI think Maw of Lorkaj and VHOF are too hard since morrowind. Why spend so long on designing a trial that only 1% actually pass or even attempt. The leaderboards say it all about HoF and VMOL. When its the weekly barely anyone completes it.1 -
Blackbird_V✭✭✭✭✭
✭No. PvE is a joke. nTrials are ridiculously easy. Last night a group of my friends and I 5 manned Lorkhaj and completed it..
Sure nerfs to chars make things harder for like a month or 2, but PvE content is an absolute joke. Mechanics are so easy to learn.. Mechanical knowledge is #1 priority in PvE next to DPS and player knowledge.
If anything needs to be readjusted it's the difficulty. PvE is just way too easy. Make Veteran Trials with Hard Mode be activated at beginning for example - or an elite mode. Activate it, all bosses mechanics are random - vAA first boss safe space location spawns randomly and not specifically.... Just... a joke right now.
An image my friend made of the 5 man group nMoL completion with like.. 3 deaths. We didn't even have to do Lunar Stage.
For a larger image if anyone is interested.https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/328822445962166275/346438445549355008/20170814013941_1.jpg
Edited by Blackbird_V on August 14, 2017 11:55AMDifficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 25 DLCs. 41 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game.1 -
MCBIZZLE300✭✭✭✭✭YesMLGProPlayer wrote: »Nelson_Rebel wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »As some people already mentioned, the valiant attempt to "lower the ceiling and raise the floor" failed miserably. The ceiling can still pull 40-50k DPS but the floor struggles to get 10-15k. Some work to squeeze out every drop of DPS and some don't even understand the concept of a rotation. It's hard to balance content for both of those groups.
They shouldn't be trying to balance content for everyone. Not everyone should be able to complete all content on vet. That's why we have two difficulty settings in this game. Vet should be designed for those players willing to learn the mechanics and put time into perfecting a build and rotation.
so less than 2% of the population having a chance is good for you?
The issue with this is that, as I said before, the content isn't even geared towards being hard. It's bloody impossible for those who haven't spent months performing the trials. Such as MaW and HoF
Hell even the Craglorn Vet trials don't have more than 3% of completions
There are plenty of noob-friendly guilds that run and complete vet trials regularly (they only require 15-20k DPS). You don't need to practice for months to clear them. That's only if you want to get on leader boards.
The main reason why most people don't participate in trials is that organising a group of 12 people is a pain in the ass. The actual content isn't that hard.
You can say VHOF isn't hard. You just cant.0 -
Apherius✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Nothey nerf class , but they give us more cp ... and 1 heavy attack per rotation did not make the dungeon harder.
I don't even see the difference about the dungeon difficulty before and after Morrowind ...
It's time to give us at least 1 hard dungeon ( not talking about Horn of the reach ... super easy , same thing for shadow of the hist )Edited by Apherius on August 14, 2017 11:51AM2 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Add that traits has been balanced a lot making farming easier at least if you don't care for the 0.2% extra.Damage in Horns of the Reach is actually going to be higher than it was in Homestead.
ZOS nerfed sustain and therefore hurt DPS in Morrowind, but the new trait/set changes in HotR have bumped damage up above what it was in Homestead despite the tougher sustain.
You'll likely see a lot more groups completing trials because of this.
Friend found an sharpened necropotense staff getting skillpoint on alt this weekend recommendation was to sell it fast.
not because the set will be trash, but because other set bet better and you don't need sharpened anymore.Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0 -
if your calling for a nerf to content i think there is a ltp issue right here .... most pve content is so freaking easy i can be blind drunk and still breeze thro it thats right blind drunk ive tried it ... im just an average dps 25k + and *** a breeze ... most of us are actually calling for content to be hard again not nerfed ... and fyi zos have nerfed in anticipation of something .... but im guessing by this post your gona fail to capitalise on that
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DjMuscleboy02✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »
There are plenty of noob-friendly guilds that run and complete vet trials regularly (they only require 15-20k DPS). You don't need to practice for months to clear them. That's only if you want to get on leader boards.
The main reason why most people don't participate in trials is that organising a group of 12 people is a pain in the ass. The actual content isn't that hard.
And what part of the community actually is able to pull out that number?
You say this like people struggle to hit 15-20k dps. You realize you can literally tape down your mouse button and hit 20k dps right? This game is mind-numbingly easy.Brodor - PC NA - ESO's only pure bodybuilding guild
Hodor, but stronger2 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭YesDjMuscleboy02 wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »
There are plenty of noob-friendly guilds that run and complete vet trials regularly (they only require 15-20k DPS). You don't need to practice for months to clear them. That's only if you want to get on leader boards.
The main reason why most people don't participate in trials is that organising a group of 12 people is a pain in the ass. The actual content isn't that hard.
And what part of the community actually is able to pull out that number?
You say this like people struggle to hit 15-20k dps. You realize you can literally tape down your mouse button and hit 20k dps right? This game is mind-numbingly easy.
Hyperbole.1 -
Cage_Lizardman✭✭✭✭✭Before I can even say whether vet trials are too hard or not, they would have to nerf the lag.0 -
I feel like 15-20k dps is low.
But that's neither here nor there. The point of my comment is that I agree with the others here. I love ESO, but the pve is crazy easy. I was happy when they changed the WBs so I couldn't solo them anymore, now they need to make it so there is a little more effort required in the rest. 4 man dungeons, in particular, are so easy that I think most of the community can play then on auto-pilot. The random mobs are just fodder to slow down progress towards the bosses and the bosses are just as easy but with substantially larger health pools to make the fights longer. Come to me, through fire and war. I welcome you.0 -
DjMuscleboy02✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »
There are plenty of noob-friendly guilds that run and complete vet trials regularly (they only require 15-20k DPS). You don't need to practice for months to clear them. That's only if you want to get on leader boards.
The main reason why most people don't participate in trials is that organising a group of 12 people is a pain in the ass. The actual content isn't that hard.
And what part of the community actually is able to pull out that number?
You say this like people struggle to hit 15-20k dps. You realize you can literally tape down your mouse button and hit 20k dps right? This game is mind-numbingly easy.
Hyperbole.
My point completely blew past you didn't it?Edited by DjMuscleboy02 on August 14, 2017 12:50PMBrodor - PC NA - ESO's only pure bodybuilding guild
Hodor, but stronger1 -
WildWilbur✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »
Smoothed out perhaps, but the top of the cliff doesn't need to be any lower. We need a platform/base camp between the bottom of the valley and the top of the cliff.Doctordarkspawn wrote: »The cliff between normal and vet needs filed down.
I never said the cliff needs to be lower. I just said it needs to stop being a sheer cliff and something scaleable.
Is this a thread about cliff racer? Nerf dem!
"Call me a killjoy, but I think that because this is not to my taste, no one else should be able to enjoy it." Marge Simpson0 -
Guilty_Gear wrote: »I feel like 15-20k dps is low. But that's neither here nor there. The point of my comment is that I agree with the others here. I love ESO, but the pve is crazy easy. I was happy when they changed the WBs so I couldn't solo them anymore, now they need to make it so there is a little more effort required in the rest. 4 man dungeons, in particular, are so easy that I think most of the community can play then on auto-pilot. The random mobs are just fodder to slow down progress towards the bosses and the bosses are just as easy but with substantially larger health pools to make the fights longer.
wbs can 100% be soloed with the exception of a few dlc wbs
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karldavy149b16_ESO wrote: »Guilty_Gear wrote: »I feel like 15-20k dps is low. But that's neither here nor there. The point of my comment is that I agree with the others here. I love ESO, but the pve is crazy easy. I was happy when they changed the WBs so I couldn't solo them anymore, now they need to make it so there is a little more effort required in the rest. 4 man dungeons, in particular, are so easy that I think most of the community can play then on auto-pilot. The random mobs are just fodder to slow down progress towards the bosses and the bosses are just as easy but with substantially larger health pools to make the fights longer.
wbs can 100% be soloed with the exception of a few dlc wbs
the issue with the game is the streamers in all honesty you got the guys showcasing gear saying super high crazy dps and what alot of people dont realise dps is 20-30% gear the rest rotation .... everyone is looking for the quick fix in gear and not even attempting to fix rotation which is why majority of player base suck
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GrimClaw✭✭✭NoCant we have PvP as PvE ? One side plays the monsters the other the heroes.
Each fight with different toons an abilities, except the heroes which are standard characters.
Or a dungeon creation tool. Entrance in your brand new cellar
No one will ever ask for easiert / harder dungeons and there will be no lack of content.0
