PvE content difficulty Relative to Nerfs lately. Should it be adjusted?

Nelson_Rebel

Yes

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Yamenstein wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

SammyFable wrote: »

If anything, I think PvE content should receive a BUFF. Can't complete vet dungeons or trials? There is a normal mode for that...

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Sorry but from just Ps4 trophies alone for completion rates of veteran content (which are account based NOT character based) I find that this just isn't true

The content may have been easier for you perhaps, but CERTAINLY not the vast majority.

Do you understand, that these trophy statistic also include people who got the game, literally spend under an hour ingame and never touched it again? Do you understand that PvP only players are included? Do you understand, that people who play for the lore are included?
A completion statistic that includes EVERY single player, sorry no, every BUYER of the game has no meaning in regards to difficulty. Tell me, did 80%+ of PS4 players ever complete main quests? Did 80%+ achieve grand overlord? Did they achieve emperor? Did they complete every dungeon in this game?

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

I think a third option hardmode would be best. Let people have a chance to complete veteran content and achieve skins. And have the Hardcore players have exclusive Titles and perhaps Extra exclusive Mounts for it.

Because right now, trials ARE dead

Did you consider that there are players who actually LIKE a challenge? In your cry for more pve nerfs, did you think about those players already bored of 90% of ESOs content? Did you think about the players who want to work on themselves to be able to defeat Rhakkat in hardmode?


If ZoS WERE to implement a new difficulty there would still be people like you complaining about not being able to complete every single thing in that difficulty. If you think overall pve difficulty is too high, than you have to git gud. Sorry to say this, but if you play acknowledging mechanics, deal some decent DPS or heal or tank decently, you'll be able to complete everything.


People here already mentioned, that ZoS took the fun out of the game with the huge hammer they used on sustain. THAT'S why people leave the game. It is LESS FUN. ZoS also promised a more fast paced combat, but especially for a caster, heavy attacks, that are needed for high sustain and DPS, take ages to finally go off.

You do realize you have nothing to support your statement right? In regards to how many play the game or don't, or how many people PvP and don't PvE or any lore players that also do or don't do anything else



You can't prove anything you said, and while I also can't disprove it either, bringing up the completion rate is Valid. Because it shows factual disparity and real time solid evidence that supports my own opinion and statement.


And sure there's a normal mode. But I think that one argument doesn't cut it friend. you can't just justify making everything exclusive to
less than 2% of the playerbase, put an unrewarding normal mode on it. And call it good as good game balance.


But to each their own

But you also don't have anything to support your argument. It just sounds like you can't do a trial and need to reduced in difficulty because of it. Go do a survey if you have to. Otherwise no point anyone posting on this thread because you'll just pull more information out of thin air. Unrewarding normal mode? Isn't that a normal trial run?

Get good please.

Yes I do have supporting information.

The completion rate of Ps4 for ANY vet trial
is lesss than 2%


The only achievements worse than that are Emperor, Flawless conquerer, and DSA

The statistics are grossly showing a Disparity in how Veteran content is not being completed.


That is factual, You have nothing backing your statement

Why is that a problem though? You don't have to complete vet trials. If only 2% of players can complete them, then that's fine.

It becomes a problem when the content becomes stagnant and no one is attempting it because it has become an unfeasible accomplishment where even if you have decent knowledge of mechanics, the right gear, a decent rotation. You're still unlikely to ever complete it no matter how long you attempt it or how hard you try.


Stagnation in PvE is a serious problem. At least back when BoE was around people had an incentive to do it regardless of the difficulty. Now with how hard it is now. There is no incentive. And less players are around, and even less are doing the actual end game.


What's the point? And in turn disinterests the gaming community. PvP only is fun for so long

Dymence

No

Raiding just isn't very popular in ESO, because there's no real merit to doing them. You don't get better gear out of it or anything like you would in other MMO's. It's just for achievements and skins.

Morrowind just changed how people play in PVE. It didn't actually change the difficulty at all. It's just all about if people enjoy it or not.

MLGProPlayer

No

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Yamenstein wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

SammyFable wrote: »

If anything, I think PvE content should receive a BUFF. Can't complete vet dungeons or trials? There is a normal mode for that...

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Sorry but from just Ps4 trophies alone for completion rates of veteran content (which are account based NOT character based) I find that this just isn't true

The content may have been easier for you perhaps, but CERTAINLY not the vast majority.

Do you understand, that these trophy statistic also include people who got the game, literally spend under an hour ingame and never touched it again? Do you understand that PvP only players are included? Do you understand, that people who play for the lore are included?
A completion statistic that includes EVERY single player, sorry no, every BUYER of the game has no meaning in regards to difficulty. Tell me, did 80%+ of PS4 players ever complete main quests? Did 80%+ achieve grand overlord? Did they achieve emperor? Did they complete every dungeon in this game?

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

I think a third option hardmode would be best. Let people have a chance to complete veteran content and achieve skins. And have the Hardcore players have exclusive Titles and perhaps Extra exclusive Mounts for it.

Because right now, trials ARE dead

Did you consider that there are players who actually LIKE a challenge? In your cry for more pve nerfs, did you think about those players already bored of 90% of ESOs content? Did you think about the players who want to work on themselves to be able to defeat Rhakkat in hardmode?


If ZoS WERE to implement a new difficulty there would still be people like you complaining about not being able to complete every single thing in that difficulty. If you think overall pve difficulty is too high, than you have to git gud. Sorry to say this, but if you play acknowledging mechanics, deal some decent DPS or heal or tank decently, you'll be able to complete everything.


People here already mentioned, that ZoS took the fun out of the game with the huge hammer they used on sustain. THAT'S why people leave the game. It is LESS FUN. ZoS also promised a more fast paced combat, but especially for a caster, heavy attacks, that are needed for high sustain and DPS, take ages to finally go off.

You do realize you have nothing to support your statement right? In regards to how many play the game or don't, or how many people PvP and don't PvE or any lore players that also do or don't do anything else



You can't prove anything you said, and while I also can't disprove it either, bringing up the completion rate is Valid. Because it shows factual disparity and real time solid evidence that supports my own opinion and statement.


And sure there's a normal mode. But I think that one argument doesn't cut it friend. you can't just justify making everything exclusive to
less than 2% of the playerbase, put an unrewarding normal mode on it. And call it good as good game balance.


But to each their own

But you also don't have anything to support your argument. It just sounds like you can't do a trial and need to reduced in difficulty because of it. Go do a survey if you have to. Otherwise no point anyone posting on this thread because you'll just pull more information out of thin air. Unrewarding normal mode? Isn't that a normal trial run?

Get good please.

Yes I do have supporting information.

The completion rate of Ps4 for ANY vet trial
is lesss than 2%


The only achievements worse than that are Emperor, Flawless conquerer, and DSA

The statistics are grossly showing a Disparity in how Veteran content is not being completed.


That is factual, You have nothing backing your statement

Why is that a problem though? You don't have to complete vet trials. If only 2% of players can complete them, then that's fine.

It becomes a problem when the content becomes stagnant and no one is attempting it because it has become an unfeasible accomplishment where even if you have decent knowledge of mechanics, the right gear, a decent rotation. You're still unlikely to ever complete it no matter how long you attempt it or how hard you try.


Stagnation in PvE is a serious problem. At least back when BoE was around people had an incentive to do it regardless of the difficulty. Now with how hard it is now. There is no incentive. And less players are around, and even less are doing the actual end game.


What's the point? And in turn disinterests the gaming community. PvP only is fun for so long

But those people have normal trials. They are the exact same thing, just toned down to THEIR level. That's why we have difficulty settings.

There is no reason why everyone should be able to complete vet trials.

Do you expect a single player game to tone down their hardest difficulty setting just so you can complete it? It's there for people who want a challenge.

SanTii.92

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

I don't quite understand this poll. Are you asking if we think pve content has been over nerfed, or if our characters have.

I specifically asked at the bottom of my paragraph

"Very simply should ZoS look into PvE adjustments"

From the premise of my Paragraph, The nerfs and blanket nerfs. PvE content IMO is to hard.


If that isn't clear enough, idk what to tell you *shrug*

"look into pve adjustment" could be anything dude. Now look at your own poll, everyone should understand what you mean just by reading it.

PvE content difficulty Relative to Nerfs lately

• Yes
• No
• Other

Terribly done, sorry.

ccfeeling

Yes

I vote yes because I am not US/EU region players , our dps is much lower than you guys a lot with crazy lag.

avg is 20-25k with full gold but jewels . Sounds sad .

Nelson_Rebel

Yes

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Yamenstein wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

SammyFable wrote: »

If anything, I think PvE content should receive a BUFF. Can't complete vet dungeons or trials? There is a normal mode for that...

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Sorry but from just Ps4 trophies alone for completion rates of veteran content (which are account based NOT character based) I find that this just isn't true

The content may have been easier for you perhaps, but CERTAINLY not the vast majority.

Do you understand, that these trophy statistic also include people who got the game, literally spend under an hour ingame and never touched it again? Do you understand that PvP only players are included? Do you understand, that people who play for the lore are included?
A completion statistic that includes EVERY single player, sorry no, every BUYER of the game has no meaning in regards to difficulty. Tell me, did 80%+ of PS4 players ever complete main quests? Did 80%+ achieve grand overlord? Did they achieve emperor? Did they complete every dungeon in this game?

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

I think a third option hardmode would be best. Let people have a chance to complete veteran content and achieve skins. And have the Hardcore players have exclusive Titles and perhaps Extra exclusive Mounts for it.

Because right now, trials ARE dead

Did you consider that there are players who actually LIKE a challenge? In your cry for more pve nerfs, did you think about those players already bored of 90% of ESOs content? Did you think about the players who want to work on themselves to be able to defeat Rhakkat in hardmode?


If ZoS WERE to implement a new difficulty there would still be people like you complaining about not being able to complete every single thing in that difficulty. If you think overall pve difficulty is too high, than you have to git gud. Sorry to say this, but if you play acknowledging mechanics, deal some decent DPS or heal or tank decently, you'll be able to complete everything.


People here already mentioned, that ZoS took the fun out of the game with the huge hammer they used on sustain. THAT'S why people leave the game. It is LESS FUN. ZoS also promised a more fast paced combat, but especially for a caster, heavy attacks, that are needed for high sustain and DPS, take ages to finally go off.

You do realize you have nothing to support your statement right? In regards to how many play the game or don't, or how many people PvP and don't PvE or any lore players that also do or don't do anything else



You can't prove anything you said, and while I also can't disprove it either, bringing up the completion rate is Valid. Because it shows factual disparity and real time solid evidence that supports my own opinion and statement.


And sure there's a normal mode. But I think that one argument doesn't cut it friend. you can't just justify making everything exclusive to
less than 2% of the playerbase, put an unrewarding normal mode on it. And call it good as good game balance.


But to each their own

But you also don't have anything to support your argument. It just sounds like you can't do a trial and need to reduced in difficulty because of it. Go do a survey if you have to. Otherwise no point anyone posting on this thread because you'll just pull more information out of thin air. Unrewarding normal mode? Isn't that a normal trial run?

Get good please.

Yes I do have supporting information.

The completion rate of Ps4 for ANY vet trial
is lesss than 2%


The only achievements worse than that are Emperor, Flawless conquerer, and DSA

The statistics are grossly showing a Disparity in how Veteran content is not being completed.


That is factual, You have nothing backing your statement

Why is that a problem though? You don't have to complete vet trials. If only 2% of players can complete them, then that's fine.

It becomes a problem when the content becomes stagnant and no one is attempting it because it has become an unfeasible accomplishment where even if you have decent knowledge of mechanics, the right gear, a decent rotation. You're still unlikely to ever complete it no matter how long you attempt it or how hard you try.


Stagnation in PvE is a serious problem. At least back when BoE was around people had an incentive to do it regardless of the difficulty. Now with how hard it is now. There is no incentive. And less players are around, and even less are doing the actual end game.


What's the point? And in turn disinterests the gaming community. PvP only is fun for so long

But those people have normal trials. They are the exact same thing, just toned down.

There is no reason why everyone should be able to complete vet trials.

Your failing to see the point here

I never said "everyone" should be completing it, But when the game has stagnated and become more difficult at the same time (for PvE endgame content) and the completion rate being already so low.

Do you honestly think it'll improve to where it becomes even possible for new players to be even given a chance to run it? NO. Because the ones who already have it figured out are all in the top guilds, who will only run with those people with all biS geat and any secret tactics and gear combos figured out

The new players *might* attempt it but with how hard it is now they will not ever complete it.

Having stagnant uncompletable content is NOT how a gaming community grows.


Insane/hardcore/spend months to learn mechanics Is NOT growth. That is just an artificial grind of unrealistic time people have (for the
majority) If they want to make money, and have a healthy solid playbase, they cannot ever cater to the 1% as the average for completing content. Some MIDDLE ground needs to be made

Seri

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Yes I do have supporting information.

The completion rate of Ps4 for ANY vet trial
is lesss than 2%


The only achievements worse than that are Emperor, Flawless conquerer, and DSA

The statistics are grossly showing a Disparity in how Veteran content is not being completed.


That is factual, You have nothing backing your statement

I'm assuming these are per account and not per toon. Out of curiosity, can I ask what the percentages are for Master Fisher/Angler, L50 Hero and Flawless Sacrament? I'd also ask about the achieves for allocating 300-ish CP but can't remember it's name right now (assuming there's a PS4 achieve for it).

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

I have completiona for most of the Vet trials since 2014 when the game launched on console.

2015.

SydneyGrey

I'm not finding PvE difficult, but that's because I've been playing for a long while.
Someone new to the game might find it hard, because when they first start out, they have zero champion points, zero gold, no master crafter, no matching armor sets, etc. So of course they're going to find it more difficult. The nerfs affect the new players the most, in a negative way. ZOS can't nerf things so much that new players get discouraged and frustrated because they can't kill anything, and stop playing. (Not saying we're there yet, but if they continue the nerfapocalypse trend, it *could* happen.) They need to stop so much nerfing, and start buffing the under-performing skills more.

I've noticed that all the players who say PvE is too easy have all been playing for more than a few months.

MLGProPlayer

No

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Yamenstein wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

SammyFable wrote: »

If anything, I think PvE content should receive a BUFF. Can't complete vet dungeons or trials? There is a normal mode for that...

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Sorry but from just Ps4 trophies alone for completion rates of veteran content (which are account based NOT character based) I find that this just isn't true

The content may have been easier for you perhaps, but CERTAINLY not the vast majority.

Do you understand, that these trophy statistic also include people who got the game, literally spend under an hour ingame and never touched it again? Do you understand that PvP only players are included? Do you understand, that people who play for the lore are included?
A completion statistic that includes EVERY single player, sorry no, every BUYER of the game has no meaning in regards to difficulty. Tell me, did 80%+ of PS4 players ever complete main quests? Did 80%+ achieve grand overlord? Did they achieve emperor? Did they complete every dungeon in this game?

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

I think a third option hardmode would be best. Let people have a chance to complete veteran content and achieve skins. And have the Hardcore players have exclusive Titles and perhaps Extra exclusive Mounts for it.

Because right now, trials ARE dead

Did you consider that there are players who actually LIKE a challenge? In your cry for more pve nerfs, did you think about those players already bored of 90% of ESOs content? Did you think about the players who want to work on themselves to be able to defeat Rhakkat in hardmode?


If ZoS WERE to implement a new difficulty there would still be people like you complaining about not being able to complete every single thing in that difficulty. If you think overall pve difficulty is too high, than you have to git gud. Sorry to say this, but if you play acknowledging mechanics, deal some decent DPS or heal or tank decently, you'll be able to complete everything.


People here already mentioned, that ZoS took the fun out of the game with the huge hammer they used on sustain. THAT'S why people leave the game. It is LESS FUN. ZoS also promised a more fast paced combat, but especially for a caster, heavy attacks, that are needed for high sustain and DPS, take ages to finally go off.

You do realize you have nothing to support your statement right? In regards to how many play the game or don't, or how many people PvP and don't PvE or any lore players that also do or don't do anything else



You can't prove anything you said, and while I also can't disprove it either, bringing up the completion rate is Valid. Because it shows factual disparity and real time solid evidence that supports my own opinion and statement.


And sure there's a normal mode. But I think that one argument doesn't cut it friend. you can't just justify making everything exclusive to
less than 2% of the playerbase, put an unrewarding normal mode on it. And call it good as good game balance.


But to each their own

But you also don't have anything to support your argument. It just sounds like you can't do a trial and need to reduced in difficulty because of it. Go do a survey if you have to. Otherwise no point anyone posting on this thread because you'll just pull more information out of thin air. Unrewarding normal mode? Isn't that a normal trial run?

Get good please.

Yes I do have supporting information.

The completion rate of Ps4 for ANY vet trial
is lesss than 2%


The only achievements worse than that are Emperor, Flawless conquerer, and DSA

The statistics are grossly showing a Disparity in how Veteran content is not being completed.


That is factual, You have nothing backing your statement

Why is that a problem though? You don't have to complete vet trials. If only 2% of players can complete them, then that's fine.

It becomes a problem when the content becomes stagnant and no one is attempting it because it has become an unfeasible accomplishment where even if you have decent knowledge of mechanics, the right gear, a decent rotation. You're still unlikely to ever complete it no matter how long you attempt it or how hard you try.


Stagnation in PvE is a serious problem. At least back when BoE was around people had an incentive to do it regardless of the difficulty. Now with how hard it is now. There is no incentive. And less players are around, and even less are doing the actual end game.


What's the point? And in turn disinterests the gaming community. PvP only is fun for so long

But those people have normal trials. They are the exact same thing, just toned down.

There is no reason why everyone should be able to complete vet trials.

Your failing to see the point here

I never said "everyone" should be completing it, But when the game has stagnated and become more difficult at the same time (for PvE endgame content) and the completion rate being already so low.

Do you honestly think it'll improve to where it becomes even possible for new players to be even given a chance to run it? NO. Because the ones who already have it figured out are all in the top guilds, who will only run with those people with all biS geat and any secret tactics and gear combos figured out

The new players *might* attempt it but with how hard it is now they will not ever complete it.

Having stagnant uncompletable content is NOT how a gaming community grows.


Insane/hardcore/spend months to learn mechanics Is NOT growth. That is just an artificial grind of unrealistic time people have (for the
majority) If they want to make money, and have a healthy solid playbase, they cannot ever cater to the 1% as the average for completing content. Some MIDDLE ground needs to be made

1. The CONTENT is completable. It's still the same CONTENT on normal that it is on vet. Which difficulty someone completes it on is irrelevant.

2. As I mentioned, there are tons of noob-friendly trials guilds on PC. As someone else pointed out in this thread, there are noob-friendly trials guilds recruiting in the PS4 recruitment section of this board as well.

3. You don't need to practice for months to complete the content. That's absurd. The guilds I mentioned require between 15-20k DPS, which even the worst players can reach. They have all cleared vet trials with these players and a little bit of practice.

It sounds like you're completely out of touch with what's going on in this game and you're pulling arguments out of thin air.

Beardimus

Other

You have to be kidding me, .any things are being buffed this patch, the majority of PvE is a cake walk as it is, then a big step up to the actual hard content, (Vet DLC, HM, No Death etc)

PvE needs to be harder for it to be fun. Everything melts even with a non perfect setup now already.

Overload should co to ur to scale up to CP cap and at cap add another 10% difficulty, otherwise once you hit L50 everything is just a button smash

Betsararie

No

I think a lot of the problem here is there simply aren't enough trials. Which is something I have been saying for a while now.

If we had twice the amount of trials we have now which would be appropriate, they could be spread out between different difficulty levels much like the I and II system with dungeons.

If there were at a minimum twice the amount of trials there are now, players would see it as a more significant part of the game, similar to how they see dungeons now. For the average player trials are some far-off thing they may never do, they'd have to join a raid guild just to do them which is too hard for them, etc.

Also if we would just implement an LFR, it would help immensely.

This is how you revitalize and nurture the end game group content community. People would be much more interested in getting into trials. Also, they need to be further incentivized in terms of gear and BoE needs to be brought back immediately.

I am going to blame ZOS for not implementing any of this.

rosendoichinoveb17_ESO

Yes

I completely agree that some vet dungeons (maybe not trials) need to be nerfed a bit. I mean it is now a rule to kick players that are not max CP in DLC vet dungeons on HM. And even a lot of max CP players that don't know the dungeon to perfection struggle in those dungeons.

I personally would love to teach new not max CP player to complete vet DLC dungeons but at the current state it is not possible!

Magdalina

Yes

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Yamenstein wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

SammyFable wrote: »

If anything, I think PvE content should receive a BUFF. Can't complete vet dungeons or trials? There is a normal mode for that...

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Sorry but from just Ps4 trophies alone for completion rates of veteran content (which are account based NOT character based) I find that this just isn't true

The content may have been easier for you perhaps, but CERTAINLY not the vast majority.

Do you understand, that these trophy statistic also include people who got the game, literally spend under an hour ingame and never touched it again? Do you understand that PvP only players are included? Do you understand, that people who play for the lore are included?
A completion statistic that includes EVERY single player, sorry no, every BUYER of the game has no meaning in regards to difficulty. Tell me, did 80%+ of PS4 players ever complete main quests? Did 80%+ achieve grand overlord? Did they achieve emperor? Did they complete every dungeon in this game?

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

I think a third option hardmode would be best. Let people have a chance to complete veteran content and achieve skins. And have the Hardcore players have exclusive Titles and perhaps Extra exclusive Mounts for it.

Because right now, trials ARE dead

Did you consider that there are players who actually LIKE a challenge? In your cry for more pve nerfs, did you think about those players already bored of 90% of ESOs content? Did you think about the players who want to work on themselves to be able to defeat Rhakkat in hardmode?


If ZoS WERE to implement a new difficulty there would still be people like you complaining about not being able to complete every single thing in that difficulty. If you think overall pve difficulty is too high, than you have to git gud. Sorry to say this, but if you play acknowledging mechanics, deal some decent DPS or heal or tank decently, you'll be able to complete everything.


People here already mentioned, that ZoS took the fun out of the game with the huge hammer they used on sustain. THAT'S why people leave the game. It is LESS FUN. ZoS also promised a more fast paced combat, but especially for a caster, heavy attacks, that are needed for high sustain and DPS, take ages to finally go off.

You do realize you have nothing to support your statement right? In regards to how many play the game or don't, or how many people PvP and don't PvE or any lore players that also do or don't do anything else



You can't prove anything you said, and while I also can't disprove it either, bringing up the completion rate is Valid. Because it shows factual disparity and real time solid evidence that supports my own opinion and statement.


And sure there's a normal mode. But I think that one argument doesn't cut it friend. you can't just justify making everything exclusive to
less than 2% of the playerbase, put an unrewarding normal mode on it. And call it good as good game balance.


But to each their own

But you also don't have anything to support your argument. It just sounds like you can't do a trial and need to reduced in difficulty because of it. Go do a survey if you have to. Otherwise no point anyone posting on this thread because you'll just pull more information out of thin air. Unrewarding normal mode? Isn't that a normal trial run?

Get good please.

Yes I do have supporting information.

The completion rate of Ps4 for ANY vet trial
is lesss than 2%


The only achievements worse than that are Emperor, Flawless conquerer, and DSA

The statistics are grossly showing a Disparity in how Veteran content is not being completed.


That is factual, You have nothing backing your statement

What is the completion rate on ps4 for normal trials though? Because last time we had a similar "factual" conversation it turned out only like 5-10% actually killed Molag Bal.

mocap

Yes

However, many of Craglorn quest bosses must be buffed. They have 40-50k hp!
Bosses
40k hp
Craglorn
.

Olen_Mikko

No, ZOS should boost the overland difficulty.

Bobby_V_Rockit

Yes

Content should be clearable by at least 25% of the active population IMO. This 1% elitism garbage is ruining endgame for the 99% who just want to play and have fun. Its a game, not a career.

Betsararie

No

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

Content should be clearable by at least 25% of the active population IMO. This 1% elitism garbage is ruining endgame for the 99% who just want to play and have fun. Its a game, not a career.

Oh, but being good at the game and beating tough content is the most fun part.

Seri

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

Content should be clearable by at least 25% of the active population IMO. This 1% elitism garbage is ruining endgame for the 99% who just want to play and have fun. Its a game, not a career.

If you just want to have fun, what is stopping people going into the normal versions?

Also....

1% elitism [...] ruiining [...] for the 99%

[citation needed] pleeeeease on that statistic. Pulling an exaggerated number out of no-where isn't helping anything, and invalidates arguments.

MLGProPlayer

No

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

Content should be clearable by at least 25% of the active population IMO. This 1% elitism garbage is ruining endgame for the 99% who just want to play and have fun. Its a game, not a career.

What's stopping you from completing normal trials? It's the same exact CONTENT as the vet version, just easier. If vet is too hard, then stick to normal. You're still completing the same content.

Do you demand that single player game devs make their hardest difficulty beatable by 25% of players too? Harder difficulties are designed for players who want a challenge. You lose out on absolutely nothing by playing on lower difficulties.

If you want to beat a game on a harder difficulty, then get better. If you don't want to put the time in to get better, then just play on a lower difficulty. I really don't see what the problem is.

Bobby_V_Rockit

Yes

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

Content should be clearable by at least 25% of the active population IMO. This 1% elitism garbage is ruining endgame for the 99% who just want to play and have fun. Its a game, not a career.

What's stopping you from completing normal trials? It's the same exact CONTENT as the vet version, just easier. If vet is too hard, then stick to normal. You're still completing the same content.

Do you demand that single player game devs make their hardest difficulty beatable by 25% of players too? Harder difficulties are designed for players who want a challenge. You lose out on absolutely nothing by playing on lower difficulties.

If you want to beat a game on a harder difficulty, then get better. If you don't want to put the time in to get better, then just play on a lower difficulty. I really don't see what the problem is.

I DO expect a game to be completable without needing to read several theses in order to beat basic content, ESPECIALLY if its a single player game. Seems stupid for a company to deliberately exclude a majority of the player base.

As for what's stopping me completing normal mode? Nothing but boredom. The gap between faceroll stand in red and spam flurry to win and wtf vet mode is a biiiig jump in difficulty. And like the OP has suggested, its getting harder and harder to join in on vet trials as a newcomer.

The 1% and 99% was spoken figuratively as there is no real way of determing attempt/complete rates of the active player base. I selected those two numbers as I know they often occur in multi media when one group is over-represented by a fickle few.

Pastas

No

PvE is not really that hard. Most of the veteran dungeons are really easy, and ZOS is going to nerf the DLC ones in the next update. Craglorn trials are pretty easy too.
IMO the problem is that questing and normal dungeons/trials are so easy that people can clomplete them without paying attention to mechanics and don't know the basics for the role they are playing.

MLGProPlayer

No

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

Content should be clearable by at least 25% of the active population IMO. This 1% elitism garbage is ruining endgame for the 99% who just want to play and have fun. Its a game, not a career.

What's stopping you from completing normal trials? It's the same exact CONTENT as the vet version, just easier. If vet is too hard, then stick to normal. You're still completing the same content.

Do you demand that single player game devs make their hardest difficulty beatable by 25% of players too? Harder difficulties are designed for players who want a challenge. You lose out on absolutely nothing by playing on lower difficulties.

If you want to beat a game on a harder difficulty, then get better. If you don't want to put the time in to get better, then just play on a lower difficulty. I really don't see what the problem is.

I DO expect a game to be completable without needing to read several theses in order to beat basic content

But you DID complete the content. Just because you can't beat it on vet difficulty is irrelevant. You got to experience the content.

And you're overstating the gap in difficulty. Have you tried joining a casual trials guild? There are more than enough and they all successfully run vet trials with low-DPS players.

Kurkikohtaus

Other

Your poll question is absurd and non-sensical:

"PvE content difficulty Relative to Nerfs lately"

Yes/No?

If you are going to make a poll, at least make an effort to state clearly what people are voting for in the poll question.

Seri

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

I DO expect a game to be completable without needing to read several theses in order to beat basic content, ESPECIALLY if its a single player game.

I guess pointing out that vet mode trails are neither basic content, nor single player isn't going to change much here.

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

As for what's stopping me completing normal mode? Nothing but boredom. The gap between faceroll stand in red and spam flurry to win and wtf vet mode is a biiiig jump in difficulty.

This brings me back to what I wrote in my first contribution in this thread.... we need a new difficulty between vet and normal - not a blanket nerf to vet.

Doctordarkspawn

Yes

I dont really understand what yes or No was supposed to convey, so I'ma go ahed and just give my honest thoughts.

The game needs taken a serious look at. Time and again our damage capacity is nerfed and many boss mechanics reliant on DPS are never touched. This is why I have decried the nerfs over and over and I think this needs to change.

Nerfs have allways been a punishment for growing too powerfull with this company. I've been saying it since Homestead, and even before. Eventually, we will hit a point where we will not do enough DPS to be able to complete the content.

Tandor

No

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

I don't quite understand this poll. Are you asking if we think pve content has been over nerfed, or if our characters have.

I specifically asked at the bottom of my paragraph

"Very simply should ZoS look into PvE adjustments"

From the premise of my Paragraph, The nerfs and blanket nerfs. PvE content IMO is to hard.


If that isn't clear enough, idk what to tell you *shrug*

Putting the question in bold at the head of the options is the better way of expressing a poll, rather than people having to read through the post to find the question. What you did was put "PvE content difficulty Relative to Nerfs lately - Yes or No" which makes no sense.

As for your question, I haven't noticed any change in the combat beyond the benefit of using a few heavy attacks which previously served little or no purpose, so I'm relaxed about the recent changes and don't see any need to review things further (beyond any developer's usual monitoring and adjustments in an evolutionary genre).

Doctordarkspawn

Yes

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Yamenstein wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

SammyFable wrote: »

If anything, I think PvE content should receive a BUFF. Can't complete vet dungeons or trials? There is a normal mode for that...

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Sorry but from just Ps4 trophies alone for completion rates of veteran content (which are account based NOT character based) I find that this just isn't true

The content may have been easier for you perhaps, but CERTAINLY not the vast majority.

Do you understand, that these trophy statistic also include people who got the game, literally spend under an hour ingame and never touched it again? Do you understand that PvP only players are included? Do you understand, that people who play for the lore are included?
A completion statistic that includes EVERY single player, sorry no, every BUYER of the game has no meaning in regards to difficulty. Tell me, did 80%+ of PS4 players ever complete main quests? Did 80%+ achieve grand overlord? Did they achieve emperor? Did they complete every dungeon in this game?

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

I think a third option hardmode would be best. Let people have a chance to complete veteran content and achieve skins. And have the Hardcore players have exclusive Titles and perhaps Extra exclusive Mounts for it.

Because right now, trials ARE dead

Did you consider that there are players who actually LIKE a challenge? In your cry for more pve nerfs, did you think about those players already bored of 90% of ESOs content? Did you think about the players who want to work on themselves to be able to defeat Rhakkat in hardmode?


If ZoS WERE to implement a new difficulty there would still be people like you complaining about not being able to complete every single thing in that difficulty. If you think overall pve difficulty is too high, than you have to git gud. Sorry to say this, but if you play acknowledging mechanics, deal some decent DPS or heal or tank decently, you'll be able to complete everything.


People here already mentioned, that ZoS took the fun out of the game with the huge hammer they used on sustain. THAT'S why people leave the game. It is LESS FUN. ZoS also promised a more fast paced combat, but especially for a caster, heavy attacks, that are needed for high sustain and DPS, take ages to finally go off.

You do realize you have nothing to support your statement right? In regards to how many play the game or don't, or how many people PvP and don't PvE or any lore players that also do or don't do anything else



You can't prove anything you said, and while I also can't disprove it either, bringing up the completion rate is Valid. Because it shows factual disparity and real time solid evidence that supports my own opinion and statement.


And sure there's a normal mode. But I think that one argument doesn't cut it friend. you can't just justify making everything exclusive to
less than 2% of the playerbase, put an unrewarding normal mode on it. And call it good as good game balance.


But to each their own

But you also don't have anything to support your argument. It just sounds like you can't do a trial and need to reduced in difficulty because of it. Go do a survey if you have to. Otherwise no point anyone posting on this thread because you'll just pull more information out of thin air. Unrewarding normal mode? Isn't that a normal trial run?

Get good please.

Yes I do have supporting information.

The completion rate of Ps4 for ANY vet trial
is lesss than 2%


The only achievements worse than that are Emperor, Flawless conquerer, and DSA

The statistics are grossly showing a Disparity in how Veteran content is not being completed.


That is factual, You have nothing backing your statement

Why is that a problem though? You don't have to complete vet trials. If only 2% of players can complete them, then that's fine.

It becomes a problem when the content becomes stagnant and no one is attempting it because it has become an unfeasible accomplishment where even if you have decent knowledge of mechanics, the right gear, a decent rotation. You're still unlikely to ever complete it no matter how long you attempt it or how hard you try.


Stagnation in PvE is a serious problem. At least back when BoE was around people had an incentive to do it regardless of the difficulty. Now with how hard it is now. There is no incentive. And less players are around, and even less are doing the actual end game.


What's the point? And in turn disinterests the gaming community. PvP only is fun for so long

But those people have normal trials. They are the exact same thing, just toned down to THEIR level. That's why we have difficulty settings.

There is no reason why everyone should be able to complete vet trials.

Do you expect a single player game to tone down their hardest difficulty setting just so you can complete it? It's there for people who want a challenge.

That attitude misses the point, and the people who hold it are usually selfish.

The problem was never that people want the world handed to them and if you think that, you need to calm down, tell yourself all the casuals dont want to take your stuff and re-examine. The problem was allways the sheer cliff and inaccessibility. The tactics and rotations of endgame would never feesibly be come to as a conclusion for anyone but those skilled at manipulating a system, and that has been the primary problem.

The game has allways been counter-intuition. You have allways needed to look up a build or do more building than is feesible for a person on a working schedual to get anyway. It needs to be better designed. The cliff between normal and vet needs filed down. This is the stated goal from ZOS, but they're going about it wrong. The problem lies usually with the skills itself and how they are presented.

Minor tangent, but look at how Secret World redesigned it's weapons. Before, you had a gigantic wheel with so many godamn options it'd make your head spin. Builds were suggested and you could learn from that, but the game itself didn't give you crap beyond that.

In the re-release, Legends, the skill-lines are sevearly cut in terms of fat, and the 'tank' abilities or 'healer' abilities are set aside in a clear manner, so you know exactly that they are, what it does, and why you should use it.

Even then, every starting class had a distinct style. (Even if the class roles were labled...weird. Survivability was tanking. Weird.) Devistators were the wolverine guys, punishers were the 'Armor up to the nuts' guys, and Chaos was a more hybird between DPS and tanking.

For ESO to cut the fat and clearly set abilities aside like this, it needs to take a look at the skills, classes, and roles. Plain and simple. Then, work it's way up to the content. The problem has never been the content. The problem has allways been the tools given. A bad workmen allways blames they're tools, but a good workman does not manage to finish the job with a broken hammer. That's also a bad workman, for not geting a better hammer.

Magdalina

Yes

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

Content should be clearable by at least 25% of the active population IMO. This 1% elitism garbage is ruining endgame for the 99% who just want to play and have fun. Its a game, not a career.

What's stopping you from completing normal trials? It's the same exact CONTENT as the vet version, just easier. If vet is too hard, then stick to normal. You're still completing the same content.

Do you demand that single player game devs make their hardest difficulty beatable by 25% of players too? Harder difficulties are designed for players who want a challenge. You lose out on absolutely nothing by playing on lower difficulties.

If you want to beat a game on a harder difficulty, then get better. If you don't want to put the time in to get better, then just play on a lower difficulty. I really don't see what the problem is.

I DO expect a game to be completable without needing to read several theses in order to beat basic content, ESPECIALLY if its a single player game. Seems stupid for a company to deliberately exclude a majority of the player base.

At this point we aren't talking about excluding playerbase from content though. We're talking about Legendary difficulty being removed because people can't complete content on Legendary but refuse to do it on one of the lower difficulties. Iirc, Skyrim actually ADDED extra difficulty level because a lot of the players were finding the content too easy. And once it was added, some people enjoyed it while others stuck to lower difficulty levels without saying Legendary difficulty should be removed because they can't complete content on it.

Honghua

Yes

I feel sorry for people on consoles that cant react as fast as pc users could.
Now with sharpened nerf, pve will get even harder.

This is not the game i paid for im moving my money away.

Seri

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

The cliff between normal and vet needs filed down.

Smoothed out perhaps, but the top of the cliff doesn't need to be any lower. We need a platform/base camp between the bottom of the valley and the top of the cliff.