PvE content difficulty Relative to Nerfs lately. Should it be adjusted?

Nelson_Rebel

So I've been wondering. Lately with nerf after nerf after blanket nerf recently since Morrowind dropped (Many were justified, no question) Should ZoS take a look at current mechanics and PvE Difficulty?

I feel that overall survivability and damage has been over-nerfed in SOME aspects. Not to mention CP changes. And has been harsh on the Veteran trial/dungeon Community due to PvP issues


WARNING
*****This is purely an Opinionated poll. Very simply do YOU think Should ZoS look into PvE adjustments?*********


*Edit _ To clarify if you counter proposal that PvE should be harder, fair enough. But I think that with all the nerfs, that Making an MMO dark souls type game would be bad for business

As no one but the masochistic few would ever play this if you buff PvE content. I know i would leave for real. Because I want to enjoy what little time I'm afforded. And that probably goes for the Majority as well. I could be wrong, but I rather doubt it on 90% of the cases of players

Nelson_Rebel

Yes

And please leave comments if you have anything else to add.


would love some other input on this if possible

Betsararie

No

In all fairness, the main thing that was nerfed has been fun.

The sustain changes have slowed down the pace of gameplay, and forced one to do far more HAs than he/she would prefer.

Nelson_Rebel

Yes

Blanco wrote: »

In all fairness, the main thing that was nerfed has been fun.

The sustain changes have slowed down the pace of gameplay, and forced one to do far more HAs than he/she would prefer.

For PvP yes Some of it was fun, proc set meta aside, but in PvE just "heavy attacking" is an oversimplification of the impact of changes. Everything was already hard enough before for vet trials


Now entire guilds have vanished.

Everything is to hard now. And no one wants to do anything besides casual play and pvp.

The majority of the community cannot do the content at all anymore. I would say this was just an opinion but looking at Ps4 trophies for ACCOUNT achievements is grossly proven. People can't do anything anymore

Blacksmoke

No

Its about time PvE got a bit harder even on hard mode things are way too easy only the DLC dungeons bring some challenge with them.

Nelson_Rebel

Yes

Blacksmoke wrote: »

Its about time PvE got a bit harder even on hard mode things are way too easy only the DLC dungeons bring some challenge with them.

Sorry but from just Ps4 trophies alone for completion rates of veteran content (which are account based NOT character based) I find that this just isn't true

The content may have been easier for you perhaps, but CERTAINLY not the Vast majority.

bebynnag

their aim is to lower the ceiling and raise the floor

the problem is the very best players can still smash through the ceiling - because they are VERY good players (i am not hating on them - nor classing myself as one of them)

new players are trapped under the floor, because zos forgot to put a trap door in (trap door - make appropriate tutorials - and the people who used to make you-tube tutorials are all quitting the game because of the changes and so brand new players have no idea what to do)

while everyone else (myself included) are just floating around in a weightless vacume too good to be a scrub - to bad to be elite

Vaoh

Damage in Horns of the Reach is actually going to be higher than it was in Homestead.

ZOS nerfed sustain and therefore hurt DPS in Morrowind, but the new trait/set changes in HotR have bumped damage up above what it was in Homestead despite the tougher sustain.

You'll likely see a lot more groups completing trials because of this.

EDIT: Nevermind. ZOS changed a bunch of stuff directly on the Live server that was consistent on PTS. Overall don't expect the same buffs or amount of higher damage.

Royaji

No

They really can't start nerfing trials at this point. It's the only endgame we have left. Even DLC dungeons got nerfed in HotR. And HotR dungeons will be easier than SotH ones.

As some people already mentioned, the valiant attempt to "lower the ceiling and raise the floor" failed miserably. The ceiling can still pull 40-50k DPS but the floor struggles to get 10-15k. Some work to squeeze out every drop of DPS and some don't even understand the concept of a rotation. It's hard to balance content for both of those groups.

Trial community is not dead. It became exclusive. Running in a PUG is just too painful for good players now. And bad players can't complete the trial by themselves without explanations and help.

Nelson_Rebel

Yes

Vaoh wrote: »

Damage in Horns of the Reach is actually going to be higher than it was in Homestead.

ZOS nerfed sustain and therefore hurt DPS in Morrowind, but the new trait/set changes in HotR have bumped damage up above what it was in Homestead despite the tougher sustain.

You'll likely see a lot more groups completing trials because of this.

Any proof of this damage comparison?

I find that hard to believe. The CP system was nerfed 50% in percentage bonuses alone. Not to mention class specific nerfs and overall blanket nerfs.

I know sets 1-4 pieces are getting slightly buffed and some mundus stones. But not enough to bring it back to homestead damage

Nelson_Rebel

Yes

Royaji wrote: »

They really can't start nerfing trials at this point. It's the only endgame we have left. Even DLC dungeons got nerfed in HotR. And HotR dungeons will be easier than SotH ones.

As some people already mentioned, the valiant attempt to "lower the ceiling and raise the floor" failed miserably. The ceiling can still pull 40-50k DPS but the floor struggles to get 10-15k. Some work to squeeze out every drop of DPS and some don't even understand the concept of a rotation. It's hard to balance content for both of those groups.

Trial community is not dead. It became exclusive. Running in a PUG is just too painful for good players now. And bad players can't complete the trial by themselves without explanations and help.

This seems to be the case


The problem becomes that now only elite player groups can even complete basic vet trials now. Let alone new vet content coming out.

I don't think excluding 90% of the playerbase is an acceptable alternative.


I think a third option hardmode would be best. Let people have a chance to complete veteran content and achieve skins. And have the Hardcore players have exclusive Titles and perhaps Extra exclusive Mounts for it.

Because right now, trials ARE dead

Nelson_Rebel

Yes

This is probably pointless but

@ZOS_GinaBruno


Dunno if the dev's are doing anything about this right now. But Vet content Trials and even dungeons just aren't in a healthy place right now.


People are legitimately leaving, it feels like my server population is just declining and no one is doing trials.

The content is just too much right now.

Royaji

No

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

They really can't start nerfing trials at this point. It's the only endgame we have left. Even DLC dungeons got nerfed in HotR. And HotR dungeons will be easier than SotH ones.

As some people already mentioned, the valiant attempt to "lower the ceiling and raise the floor" failed miserably. The ceiling can still pull 40-50k DPS but the floor struggles to get 10-15k. Some work to squeeze out every drop of DPS and some don't even understand the concept of a rotation. It's hard to balance content for both of those groups.

Trial community is not dead. It became exclusive. Running in a PUG is just too painful for good players now. And bad players can't complete the trial by themselves without explanations and help.

This seems to be the case


The problem becomes that now only elite player groups can even complete basic vet trials now. Let alone new vet content coming out.

I don't think excluding 90% of the playerbase is an acceptable alternative.


I think a third option hardmode would be best. Let people have a chance to complete veteran content and achieve skins. And have the Hardcore players have exclusive Titles and perhaps Extra exclusive Mounts for it.

Because right now, trials ARE dead

They are really not dead. A lot of guilds still run trials and get clears. A lot of people progress vHoF. I know a couple of guilds that manage to organize a raid or even two nearly every day of the week.

The difference is that pre-Morrowind if someone was missing and the group needed an extra DD people would go to Craglorn and just get a PUG. He would not have been the greatest player but it was acceptable and fine to have one or two PUGs in a group. Now if you need an extra person it's always a search in guilds and friendlists. Because Craglorn PUGs are too unreliable. Getting a light-attack spammer in your group is the worst hit to raid morale you can ever get.

Nelson_Rebel

Yes

Royaji wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

They really can't start nerfing trials at this point. It's the only endgame we have left. Even DLC dungeons got nerfed in HotR. And HotR dungeons will be easier than SotH ones.

As some people already mentioned, the valiant attempt to "lower the ceiling and raise the floor" failed miserably. The ceiling can still pull 40-50k DPS but the floor struggles to get 10-15k. Some work to squeeze out every drop of DPS and some don't even understand the concept of a rotation. It's hard to balance content for both of those groups.

Trial community is not dead. It became exclusive. Running in a PUG is just too painful for good players now. And bad players can't complete the trial by themselves without explanations and help.

This seems to be the case


The problem becomes that now only elite player groups can even complete basic vet trials now. Let alone new vet content coming out.

I don't think excluding 90% of the playerbase is an acceptable alternative.


I think a third option hardmode would be best. Let people have a chance to complete veteran content and achieve skins. And have the Hardcore players have exclusive Titles and perhaps Extra exclusive Mounts for it.

Because right now, trials ARE dead

They are really not dead. A lot of guilds still run trials and get clears. A lot of people progress vHoF. I know a couple of guilds that manage to organize a raid or even two nearly every day of the week.

The difference is that pre-Morrowind if someone was missing and the group needed an extra DD people would go to Craglorn and just get a PUG. He would not have been the greatest player but it was acceptable and fine to have one or two PUGs in a group. Now if you need an extra person it's always a search in guilds and friendlists. Because Craglorn PUGs are too unreliable. Getting a light-attack spammer in your group is the worst hit to raid morale you can ever get.

In your experience this is probably true.

But less than a hundred people got any trials done last week. I kid you not. I remember looking at the closeout and it was about a total of 80 or so people on the rankings.


Despite what you say, ps4 trophies completions rates (less than 2%) And trials rankings (not even filling out)

And the general server apathy and disinterested players towards trials just keeps getting worse and worse. Right now Average to good players (not great but good) don't stand any chance at all without paying for carries now

SanTii.92

I don't quite understand this poll. Are you asking if we think pve content has been over nerfed, or if our characters have.

Royaji

No

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

They really can't start nerfing trials at this point. It's the only endgame we have left. Even DLC dungeons got nerfed in HotR. And HotR dungeons will be easier than SotH ones.

As some people already mentioned, the valiant attempt to "lower the ceiling and raise the floor" failed miserably. The ceiling can still pull 40-50k DPS but the floor struggles to get 10-15k. Some work to squeeze out every drop of DPS and some don't even understand the concept of a rotation. It's hard to balance content for both of those groups.

Trial community is not dead. It became exclusive. Running in a PUG is just too painful for good players now. And bad players can't complete the trial by themselves without explanations and help.

This seems to be the case


The problem becomes that now only elite player groups can even complete basic vet trials now. Let alone new vet content coming out.

I don't think excluding 90% of the playerbase is an acceptable alternative.


I think a third option hardmode would be best. Let people have a chance to complete veteran content and achieve skins. And have the Hardcore players have exclusive Titles and perhaps Extra exclusive Mounts for it.

Because right now, trials ARE dead

They are really not dead. A lot of guilds still run trials and get clears. A lot of people progress vHoF. I know a couple of guilds that manage to organize a raid or even two nearly every day of the week.

The difference is that pre-Morrowind if someone was missing and the group needed an extra DD people would go to Craglorn and just get a PUG. He would not have been the greatest player but it was acceptable and fine to have one or two PUGs in a group. Now if you need an extra person it's always a search in guilds and friendlists. Because Craglorn PUGs are too unreliable. Getting a light-attack spammer in your group is the worst hit to raid morale you can ever get.

In your experience this is probably true.

But less than a hundred people got any trials done last week. I kid you not. I remember looking at the closeout and it was about a total of 80 or so people on the rankings.


Despite what you say, ps4 trophies completions rates (less than 2%) And trials rankings (not even filling out)

And the general server apathy and disinterested players towards trials just keeps getting worse and worse. Right now Average to good players (not great but good) don't stand any chance at all without paying for carries now

PS4 servers are well know to be the less populated in the whole game. They even have some pretty unique guild trader issues that never happen on xBox or PC. You really can't expect them to have a strong raiding community. It's not like trials population is low. It's the whole server population.

Nelson_Rebel

Yes

SanTii.92 wrote: »

I don't quite understand this poll. Are you asking if we think pve content has been over nerfed, or if our characters have.

I specifically asked at the bottom of my paragraph

"Very simply should ZoS look into PvE adjustments"

From the premise of my Paragraph, The nerfs and blanket nerfs. PvE content IMO is to hard.


If that isn't clear enough, idk what to tell you *shrug*

MLGProPlayer

No

PvE is already a joke. CP power creep has made the majority of content trivial. If anything, it needs to be made more challenging.

SammyFable

If anything, I think PvE content should receive a BUFF. Can't complete vet dungeons or trials? There is a normal mode for that...

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Sorry but from just Ps4 trophies alone for completion rates of veteran content (which are account based NOT character based) I find that this just isn't true

The content may have been easier for you perhaps, but CERTAINLY not the vast majority.

Do you understand, that these trophy statistic also include people who got the game, literally spend under an hour ingame and never touched it again? Do you understand that PvP only players are included? Do you understand, that people who play for the lore are included?
A completion statistic that includes EVERY single player, sorry no, every BUYER of the game has no meaning in regards to difficulty. Tell me, did 80%+ of PS4 players ever complete main quests? Did 80%+ achieve grand overlord? Did they achieve emperor? Did they complete every dungeon in this game?

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

I think a third option hardmode would be best. Let people have a chance to complete veteran content and achieve skins. And have the Hardcore players have exclusive Titles and perhaps Extra exclusive Mounts for it.

Because right now, trials ARE dead

Did you consider that there are players who actually LIKE a challenge? In your cry for more pve nerfs, did you think about those players already bored of 90% of ESOs content? Did you think about the players who want to work on themselves to be able to defeat Rhakkat in hardmode?


If ZoS WERE to implement a new difficulty there would still be people like you complaining about not being able to complete every single thing in that difficulty. If you think overall pve difficulty is too high, than you have to git gud. Sorry to say this, but if you play acknowledging mechanics, deal some decent DPS or heal or tank decently, you'll be able to complete everything.


People here already mentioned, that ZoS took the fun out of the game with the huge hammer they used on sustain. THAT'S why people leave the game. It is LESS FUN. ZoS also promised a more fast paced combat, but especially for a caster, heavy attacks, that are needed for high sustain and DPS, take ages to finally go off.

MLGProPlayer

No

Royaji wrote: »

As some people already mentioned, the valiant attempt to "lower the ceiling and raise the floor" failed miserably. The ceiling can still pull 40-50k DPS but the floor struggles to get 10-15k. Some work to squeeze out every drop of DPS and some don't even understand the concept of a rotation. It's hard to balance content for both of those groups.

They shouldn't be trying to balance content for everyone. Not everyone should be able to complete all content on vet. That's why we have two difficulty settings in this game. Vet should be designed for those players willing to learn the mechanics and put time into perfecting a build and rotation.

MLGProPlayer

No

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

They really can't start nerfing trials at this point. It's the only endgame we have left. Even DLC dungeons got nerfed in HotR. And HotR dungeons will be easier than SotH ones.

As some people already mentioned, the valiant attempt to "lower the ceiling and raise the floor" failed miserably. The ceiling can still pull 40-50k DPS but the floor struggles to get 10-15k. Some work to squeeze out every drop of DPS and some don't even understand the concept of a rotation. It's hard to balance content for both of those groups.

Trial community is not dead. It became exclusive. Running in a PUG is just too painful for good players now. And bad players can't complete the trial by themselves without explanations and help.

This seems to be the case


The problem becomes that now only elite player groups can even complete basic vet trials now. Let alone new vet content coming out.

I don't think excluding 90% of the playerbase is an acceptable alternative.


I think a third option hardmode would be best. Let people have a chance to complete veteran content and achieve skins. And have the Hardcore players have exclusive Titles and perhaps Extra exclusive Mounts for it.

Because right now, trials ARE dead

There are no "basic" vet trials. Vet trials are supposed to be a challenge that only the best players can complete. Normal trials are for everyone else.

And no, vet trials are not dead. Plenty of guilds still run them.

Tannus15

Other

The only content I've found more difficult than it was pre-morrowind nerfs is vMA.

I'm not sure how i would balance it, but I'm constantly having resource issues where I wasn't pre-morrowind.

Apart from that everything seems good. The nerfs they are bringing in for the DLC dungeons are welcome, but not really necessary.

MLGProPlayer

No

SammyFable wrote: »

If ZoS WERE to implement a new difficulty there would still be people like you complaining about not being able to complete every single thing in that difficulty. If you think overall pve difficulty is too high, than you have to git gud. Sorry to say this, but if you play acknowledging mechanics, deal some decent DPS or heal or tank decently, you'll be able to complete everything.

This right here.

Why do people feel they are entitled to complete all content on the most difficult setting?

Nelson_Rebel

Yes

SammyFable wrote: »

If anything, I think PvE content should receive a BUFF. Can't complete vet dungeons or trials? There is a normal mode for that...

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Sorry but from just Ps4 trophies alone for completion rates of veteran content (which are account based NOT character based) I find that this just isn't true

The content may have been easier for you perhaps, but CERTAINLY not the vast majority.

Do you understand, that these trophy statistic also include people who got the game, literally spend under an hour ingame and never touched it again? Do you understand that PvP only players are included? Do you understand, that people who play for the lore are included?
A completion statistic that includes EVERY single player, sorry no, every BUYER of the game has no meaning in regards to difficulty. Tell me, did 80%+ of PS4 players ever complete main quests? Did 80%+ achieve grand overlord? Did they achieve emperor? Did they complete every dungeon in this game?

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

I think a third option hardmode would be best. Let people have a chance to complete veteran content and achieve skins. And have the Hardcore players have exclusive Titles and perhaps Extra exclusive Mounts for it.

Because right now, trials ARE dead

Did you consider that there are players who actually LIKE a challenge? In your cry for more pve nerfs, did you think about those players already bored of 90% of ESOs content? Did you think about the players who want to work on themselves to be able to defeat Rhakkat in hardmode?


If ZoS WERE to implement a new difficulty there would still be people like you complaining about not being able to complete every single thing in that difficulty. If you think overall pve difficulty is too high, than you have to git gud. Sorry to say this, but if you play acknowledging mechanics, deal some decent DPS or heal or tank decently, you'll be able to complete everything.


People here already mentioned, that ZoS took the fun out of the game with the huge hammer they used on sustain. THAT'S why people leave the game. It is LESS FUN. ZoS also promised a more fast paced combat, but especially for a caster, heavy attacks, that are needed for high sustain and DPS, take ages to finally go off.

You do realize you have nothing to support your statement right? In regards to how many play the game or don't, or how many people PvP and don't PvE or any lore players that also do or don't do anything else



You can't prove anything you said, and while I also can't disprove it either, bringing up the completion rate is Valid. Because it shows factual disparity and real time solid evidence that supports my own opinion and statement.


And sure there's a normal mode. But I think that one argument doesn't cut it friend. you can't just justify making everything exclusive to
less than 2% of the playerbase, put an unrewarding normal mode on it. And call it good as good game balance.


But to each their own

Nelson_Rebel

Yes

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

As some people already mentioned, the valiant attempt to "lower the ceiling and raise the floor" failed miserably. The ceiling can still pull 40-50k DPS but the floor struggles to get 10-15k. Some work to squeeze out every drop of DPS and some don't even understand the concept of a rotation. It's hard to balance content for both of those groups.

They shouldn't be trying to balance content for everyone. Not everyone should be able to complete all content on vet. That's why we have two difficulty settings in this game. Vet should be designed for those players willing to learn the mechanics and put time into perfecting a build and rotation.

so less than 2% of the population having a chance is good for you?


The issue with this is that, as I said before, the content isn't even geared towards being hard. It's bloody impossible for those who haven't spent months performing the trials. Such as MaW and HoF

Hell even the Craglorn Vet trials don't have more than 3% of completions

MLGProPlayer

No

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

As some people already mentioned, the valiant attempt to "lower the ceiling and raise the floor" failed miserably. The ceiling can still pull 40-50k DPS but the floor struggles to get 10-15k. Some work to squeeze out every drop of DPS and some don't even understand the concept of a rotation. It's hard to balance content for both of those groups.

They shouldn't be trying to balance content for everyone. Not everyone should be able to complete all content on vet. That's why we have two difficulty settings in this game. Vet should be designed for those players willing to learn the mechanics and put time into perfecting a build and rotation.

so less than 2% of the population having a chance is good for you?


The issue with this is that, as I said before, the content isn't even geared towards being hard. It's bloody impossible for those who haven't spent months performing the trials. Such as MaW and HoF

Hell even the Craglorn Vet trials don't have more than 3% of completions

There are plenty of noob-friendly guilds that run and complete vet trials regularly (they only require 15-20k DPS). You don't need to practice for months to clear them. That's only if you want to get on leader boards.

The main reason why most people don't participate in trials is that organising a group of 12 people is a pain in the ass. The actual content isn't that hard.

SoLooney

Royaji wrote: »

They really can't start nerfing trials at this point. It's the only endgame we have left. Even DLC dungeons got nerfed in HotR. And HotR dungeons will be easier than SotH ones.

As some people already mentioned, the valiant attempt to "lower the ceiling and raise the floor" failed miserably. The ceiling can still pull 40-50k DPS but the floor struggles to get 10-15k. Some work to squeeze out every drop of DPS and some don't even understand the concept of a rotation. It's hard to balance content for both of those groups.

Trial community is not dead. It became exclusive. Running in a PUG is just too painful for good players now. And bad players can't complete the trial by themselves without explanations and help.

I agree with you that Trials should not be nerfed, they are end game afterall and it should provide a great challenge to the top players, however, the lower the ceiling and raise the floor is stupid.
Why should serious players who worked hard to get BiS, perfecting rotations, have great raid support, be nerfed and punished for it?

If the casual player doesnt want to work at getting high dps, that is their problem, ceiling should not be lowered to cater to the newer casuals. Getting to the ceiling will take work and dedication but its not out of reach. and yes, not everyone will have the drive to reach it, thats a good thing

Im in 3 trials guilds that run both normal and vet trials, and yes, we help farm gear from trials and dungeons, there really isnt a problem as long as youre cp 160 and willing to learn to get higher dps.
youre talking about serious hardcore vet trials guild that can complete vmol and vhof and wont accept players who cant pull over 30k dps

Nelson_Rebel

Yes

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

As some people already mentioned, the valiant attempt to "lower the ceiling and raise the floor" failed miserably. The ceiling can still pull 40-50k DPS but the floor struggles to get 10-15k. Some work to squeeze out every drop of DPS and some don't even understand the concept of a rotation. It's hard to balance content for both of those groups.

They shouldn't be trying to balance content for everyone. Not everyone should be able to complete all content on vet. That's why we have two difficulty settings in this game. Vet should be designed for those players willing to learn the mechanics and put time into perfecting a build and rotation.

so less than 2% of the population having a chance is good for you?


The issue with this is that, as I said before, the content isn't even geared towards being hard. It's bloody impossible for those who haven't spent months performing the trials. Such as MaW and HoF

Hell even the Craglorn Vet trials don't have more than 3% of completions

There are plenty of noob guilds that run and complete vet trials regularly (they only require 15-20k DPS). You don't need to practice for months to clear them. That's only if you want to get on leader boards.

The main reason why most people don't participate in trials is that organising a group of 12 people is a pain in the ass. The actual content isn't that hard.

Ah but this is the Crux Of my point.


There are NO newer guilds or even average ones completing this content anymore.

You can keep saying that people are doing it but real time and real factual numbers is quite to the contrary of your statement. For a game with over a million players cross platform less than 2% actually play the game? I find that hard to believe.


And all this started going downhill with no open world zone requests for trials since Morrowind dropped. I don't think that's a coincidence friend

MLGProPlayer

No

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

As some people already mentioned, the valiant attempt to "lower the ceiling and raise the floor" failed miserably. The ceiling can still pull 40-50k DPS but the floor struggles to get 10-15k. Some work to squeeze out every drop of DPS and some don't even understand the concept of a rotation. It's hard to balance content for both of those groups.

They shouldn't be trying to balance content for everyone. Not everyone should be able to complete all content on vet. That's why we have two difficulty settings in this game. Vet should be designed for those players willing to learn the mechanics and put time into perfecting a build and rotation.

so less than 2% of the population having a chance is good for you?


The issue with this is that, as I said before, the content isn't even geared towards being hard. It's bloody impossible for those who haven't spent months performing the trials. Such as MaW and HoF

Hell even the Craglorn Vet trials don't have more than 3% of completions

There are plenty of noob guilds that run and complete vet trials regularly (they only require 15-20k DPS). You don't need to practice for months to clear them. That's only if you want to get on leader boards.

The main reason why most people don't participate in trials is that organising a group of 12 people is a pain in the ass. The actual content isn't that hard.

Ah but this is the Crux Of my point.


There are NO newer guilds or even average ones completing this content anymore.

Yes there are? I am a part of or have friends in at least 4 such guilds... And I have no doubt there are dozens more.

Have you tried looking for one?

Nelson_Rebel

Yes

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

As some people already mentioned, the valiant attempt to "lower the ceiling and raise the floor" failed miserably. The ceiling can still pull 40-50k DPS but the floor struggles to get 10-15k. Some work to squeeze out every drop of DPS and some don't even understand the concept of a rotation. It's hard to balance content for both of those groups.

They shouldn't be trying to balance content for everyone. Not everyone should be able to complete all content on vet. That's why we have two difficulty settings in this game. Vet should be designed for those players willing to learn the mechanics and put time into perfecting a build and rotation.

so less than 2% of the population having a chance is good for you?


The issue with this is that, as I said before, the content isn't even geared towards being hard. It's bloody impossible for those who haven't spent months performing the trials. Such as MaW and HoF

Hell even the Craglorn Vet trials don't have more than 3% of completions

There are plenty of noob guilds that run and complete vet trials regularly (they only require 15-20k DPS). You don't need to practice for months to clear them. That's only if you want to get on leader boards.

The main reason why most people don't participate in trials is that organising a group of 12 people is a pain in the ass. The actual content isn't that hard.

Ah but this is the Crux Of my point.


There are NO newer guilds or even average ones completing this content anymore.

Yes there are? I am a part of or have friends in at least 4 such guilds...

You've been around since the game launched friend on console.


Your "new" guilds are just old players that brought remnants of other old playes into it.

Vaoh

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Damage in Horns of the Reach is actually going to be higher than it was in Homestead.

ZOS nerfed sustain and therefore hurt DPS in Morrowind, but the new trait/set changes in HotR have bumped damage up above what it was in Homestead despite the tougher sustain.

You'll likely see a lot more groups completing trials because of this.

Any proof of this damage comparison?

I find that hard to believe. The CP system was nerfed 50% in percentage bonuses alone. Not to mention class specific nerfs and overall blanket nerfs.

I know sets 1-4 pieces are getting slightly buffed and some mundus stones. But not enough to bring it back to homestead damage

The CP system wasn't nerfed 50% in damage bonuses at all..... they did a few different things to the CP system. They removed the reduced cost stars, and reduced the recovery and Elemental Expert+Mighty CP. However, they made it so CP300 now granted all 20% of the Max Stat buffs that CP level gives you and made it so there were greater early gains/diminishing returns in the CP system as well as adding Master-At-Arms.

Thanks to these changes we didn't lose much damage at all from the CP system (pretty sure we gained some damage but idk about that). Rather sustain took a big hit.

Next patch the Max Stat and Critical Rating set bonuses are getting massive buffs as well as Mother's Sorrow. I encourage you to look up the DPS parses of people on PTS or hop on the PTS yourself. The numbers people are putting out have naturally gone way up. Sustain hasn't changed but the damage you deal has increased quite a lot (especially in raids where Aggressive Warhorns buff your inflated HotR Critical ratings).