PvE content difficulty Relative to Nerfs lately. Should it be adjusted?

DjMuscleboy02

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »

Honghua wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

There are plenty of noob-friendly guilds that run and complete vet trials regularly (they only require 15-20k DPS). You don't need to practice for months to clear them. That's only if you want to get on leader boards.

The main reason why most people don't participate in trials is that organising a group of 12 people is a pain in the ass. The actual content isn't that hard.

And what part of the community actually is able to pull out that number?

You say this like people struggle to hit 15-20k dps. You realize you can literally tape down your mouse button and hit 20k dps right? This game is mind-numbingly easy.

Hyperbole.

My point completely blew past you didn't it?

Considering most of your point was just rampant hyperbole to support the claim 'the game is easy' which is a statement that is subjective, it had no point.

You're one of those people who play a khajjit heavy armor hybrid sorc with a bow and hard cast crystal frags, aren't you?

MasterSpatula

Norn wrote: »

Do you wanna know who actually uses dungeon finder? People that are not good enough to make it into proper guilds(and no I'm not talking about top end raiding guilds, there are many social-PVE-dungeon focused guilds out there) and have failed to make any friends in game during the time they've played it. By using that tool you are already limiting yourself into certain group of people, don't expect much from it. Have patience, get experience, make friends. Then you will reflect upon yourself and realize you made a fool of yourself by saying dungeons were hard.

And how, pray tell, do you expect noobs to meet the people they'll eventually be friends with and join in guilds?

bebynnag

LoganEso wrote: »

puffytheslayer wrote: »

YOU DO NOT NEED TO RUN META OR NERF THE CONTENT so the majority can play it...

Aside from your frustrated-teenage-like tone, I say this statement is wrong. Majority cannot play this game as much as they should/could. You're concentrated on the top half (maybe even less) players and not ALL of the players. There are much more players that don't even know that animation cancelling exists than the ones that do. You are missing the whole point. You're too much into the game to notice.

Also someone with so much experience is bound to say "it's easy", even though it's clearly not.
And yes of course you are an elitist: in the top 10% experience-wise, for sure.

puffytheslayer wrote: »

hint - you do not need to run meta or be an amazing player to complete the content

As you don't like percentages I'll try to explain in plain text.
To clear this "hint" issue of yours, we need to better define "meta" and "amazing". In my non-elitist/normal-player opinion anyone who finishes vMA is an amazing player! Get it? I know tons of better players than me who will probably never finish vMA. Some even left the game altogether because of the vMA. This is a well known fact. Don't just discard it.
For you as the _elite_experienced_ amazing is someone who can finish vMA without deaths and naked or with some similar handicap. That is in fact _insane_ level of player, not amazing. But you don't see this as you've been playing for ages and are used to meet _insane_ level players. However there are less than 100 of all thousands of active players that are _insane_ level.

puffytheslayer wrote: »

also can you please choose an a 'top' elite percentage, you keep swapping around everything from 1% to 20% its rather annoying & confusing

I wrote context appropriate percentage. PvE top 10% is not the same as game top 10% or experience top 10%.
Also this is a completely non-issue - who cares as long as the point is explained.
Although based on your writings, I suspect you are too narrow minded to listen to any reason other than your own, as you hook on non-issues like this.

Again. The point is MAJORITY. I would like to see MAJORITY to have fun. As a _medium_ranker_ (part of the majority) I don't want to play this game 2 painstakingly-difficult years to be able to reach 90% of the content.

i have never said vMA is easy. EVER. and i never will
i am forever giving people advice on how to complete it and the best advice i can clearly give you is stop comparing yourself to someone doing a flawless speed run because you are not as good as them YET!

i do not animation cancel. i weave light attacks & heavy attacks in to my rotation because its an essential part of the combat system, but your assumption that annimation canceling is necessary is wrong.

i have a frustrated-teenage tone? - you are so desperate to be offended, call-me an elitist, insult me, pick holes in everything i write you cant even be bothered to read what im writing
if i am a frustrated teenager than you are a toddler throwing a tantrum

i know a lot of people who have quit over vMA - i was one of them,
you want to know how i completed it in the end - i got good enough - not amazing - not superior just good enough to complete it on a stam sorc,
i used my stam sorc to farm it for weapons for my other characters,
once i had 'ok weapns' i started running it on other characters.
why? because i hated running it so much and by runing it on templars & dks on xbox EU i could get myself 5 leaderboard scores a week which meant 5 free weapons a week
which means i could stop running it

now i run it to stress test a build! because i find that more usefull that beating up a dummy

you are so conviced that i am some amazing elitist player its hysterical!
im adequate - i can complete content because i understand the mechanics & my characters

oh and if all you want to do is experience the content - that is why normal versions of every trial & dundgeon exist
and as for claiming i am fixated on it - i came here to express my opinion, my opinion is that the content does NOT need to be nerfed, zenimax need to create better combat tutorials

you are the one who is fixated & disecting every sentance i type!

BrightOblivion

After some time to clear my head, I think a large part of the frustration (and it is frustration, at least for me), is that, as one's progressing through dungeons, there's still a sizable gap between the difficulty of normal dungeons and the difficulty of veteran dungeons, particularly the DLC dungeons, with subpar (and perhaps mostly nonexistent) in-game means of explaining how to bridge that gap. I don't disagree that challenge is good and needed, but so is a means to meet and overcome that challenge. Some sort of "you aren't here yet, but this is what you can do to get here." Otherwise, people (yes, sometimes including me) are going to get frustrated and irate, and that's when they start screaming for the nerfs to happen. Because most people don't enjoy what they might see as slamming their heads repeatedly into a wall trying to break through to the other side.

Right now, I'm at a point where I'm going "I want to get better. I need to get better. ...How do I get better?" and finding more questions than answers. I spent a couple hours last night hitting on a target dummy and looking stuff up to try to better improve my CP distribution, during which I was trying to figure out which damage sources were dots, what the different colors of damage in Combat Metrics mean (I'm still not entirely sure), and why when trying to put light attacks in between the abilities and being absolutely certain I pushed that ability's button, either my blockade of fire or volatile familiar (or both) would just not go off, or the dot tracker I'm using would show the countdown for the ability but I wouldn't see an animation on the ground (the latter two are probably timing things that I'll just have to figure out, I guess).

I keep seeing people say "refine your rotation on a target dummy" but have no idea what that actually entails, or what I'm supposed to be looking for or trying to do as I beat up this 6m skeleton in one of my guild leader's houses and it doesn't fight back. I'm still trying to work out what gear, traits, and mundus I want to be using, given my magsorc is a dunmer and using a lightning front/ inferno back setup (the thought of using just one damage type with dual lightning, with a race that doesn't even gain bonus damage from it doesn't really sit well with me). I'm not entirely committed to my pet, even though he's gone hero-mode on a couple vet dungeon bosses, holding the boss's attention while I tried to res the tank or other group members, because there are quite a few mechanics where he'll become a detriment.

And I'm wondering, if 374ish CP and 15-20k dps on bosses (while still pulling about 40-50% of total group dps) isn't enough for vet dungeons, then what will be, since I've already heard "Wait until 300CP to do those" and I guess that's wrong? And yeah, part of it might be groups where someone, despite being told repeatedly not to move during veli's shadowsense thing still gets antsy, or that one person who just refuses to close rifts in WGT, or myriad other pug problems that might be solved with a better group. And hey, if anyone has any suggestions on a group/ guild for my fifth spot that might help me get out of groupfinder, that'd be phenomenal. As it is, even with the two I'm in for that purpose, I know a couple healers I can typically count on (assuming they haven't both already done pledges) and can potentially find another dps somewhere in the guilds, but finding a tank for vet pledges is more difficult than pulling teeth.

I say all this not to tell some lovely story, or whine, or expecting someone to answer all my questions and wonderings (although, if someone has answers, they're perfectly welcome to share), but in an attempt to coherently convey where I'm coming from and what's behind my frustration and irritation. Because my three months and far more than 100 hours of play and wondering "If groupfinder's so non-viable for, y'know, finding groups to complete stuff, then why do we have it/ If we have it, shouldn't it somehow be viable?" is just as much a part of me and where I'm coming from as your 100 runs of vWGT, far far far more than 100 hours of playtime, and extended sojourn into vMA are a part of you and where you're coming from.

That's also why I'm fond of my analogies and anecdotes, even if it ticks others off to no end. Anything that might help get my point across better is absolutely swell.

EDIT: Notice how I haven't voted one way or the other yet? That's because I'm not sure and don't completely know. I'd just like to not feel like that person slamming his head repeatedly into a wall he can't seem to get through. If that means ways I can comprehend to meet/overcome the challenge or better groups, out-freaking-standing.

Lirkin

Yes

I solo so yes it should be made easier for solo

Doctordarkspawn

Yes

DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »

Honghua wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

There are plenty of noob-friendly guilds that run and complete vet trials regularly (they only require 15-20k DPS). You don't need to practice for months to clear them. That's only if you want to get on leader boards.

The main reason why most people don't participate in trials is that organising a group of 12 people is a pain in the ass. The actual content isn't that hard.

And what part of the community actually is able to pull out that number?

You say this like people struggle to hit 15-20k dps. You realize you can literally tape down your mouse button and hit 20k dps right? This game is mind-numbingly easy.

Hyperbole.

My point completely blew past you didn't it?

Considering most of your point was just rampant hyperbole to support the claim 'the game is easy' which is a statement that is subjective, it had no point.

You're one of those people who play a khajjit heavy armor hybrid sorc with a bow and hard cast crystal frags, aren't you?

No.

You appear to be one of those people who cant tollerate a opposing viewpoint and must assign bad qualities to make it 'logical' to you though.

Go get a lobotomy, this thread does not need you.

Drakkdjinn

Other

BrightOblivion wrote: »

All of these people are saying "Vet mode dungeons are so facerollingly easy and most people can do it in their sleep," and it's seriously starting to bug me. I mean, maybe it is for you and your premade group of friends on voice chat.

But as someone who pugs most of his daily pledges (and before you say "Get a guild," I'm in two of them for that purpose, but that doesn't mean they run all pledges with all 4 roles all the time), that's not what I see. I mean, sure, they can usually complete the non-dlc ones on hardmode, with Tempest Island and CoA2 being the major exceptions (can still do vet, but not hardmode).

When it comes to the DLC dungeons, though, it's a nightmare. I've attempted WGT, CoS, and RoM on vet 3 or 4 times each. I'm not talking "oh, we wiped, I'm done," mind you. I'm talking "We've died close to 10 times and gotten nowhere." Do you know how many times I've managed to complete them? Once each. With everyone over 200CP (and all 4 over 350 on last night's failed vet Cos run) on (I think) every run, once each.

I'm now close to CP370. I'm looking up guides to see what I might be missing, doing mechanics, trying to explain mechanics, and, with some reliability, pulling 15-20k dps as I try my hardest to stay out of the stupid. And still not getting there.

Folks, if this is "facerollingly easy," I would hate to see "stupidly hard." I'm not asking to be able to do hardmode with ease, or any of the related fancy achievements. I would just like to be able to reasonably expect to complete the dlc dungeon I spent nearly an hour trying to group for, without going through several circles of hell in the process, so that I can get the purple jewelry and monster helms I'm doing the dungeon for in the first place.

I haven't done any vet trials, so I can't speak to that. However, the concept of progression groups suggests a goal of working as a group to make progress and do better.

In dungeons, though, the goal is to get through it, beat the boss, and be done, repeating as needed for loot or pledges or what have you. Is it not? I mean, I haven't heard of a dungeon progression group. Have you?

dude just google it