How to balance Mag Sorcs ?

Septimus_Magna · July 2017

Mag Sorcs are fine bro...yes...surely they are ....i swear

If shields should be crittable I want my shield size to also be able to crit when I cast them, just like heals.

Streak is already the most expensive sorc skill. Cloak doesnt get more expensive when you use it in succession so why should streak cost so much more?

Sure sorcs have so good skills but every class has strong skills. You dont see me asking to nerf cloak, incap strike and surprise attack because these skills basically define the NB class.

KingJ · July 2017

Nerf Mag Sorcs a bit while slightly buffing up other classes

Nerf shielding stacking since sorc the only class that can stack 3 shields.Shield stacking is just stupid by design.The fact sorc can stack two magic scaling shields is bad design.Nerf there damage a bit so its not magsorc or gtfo in end game PVE.Buff the other classes damage and give Blazing spear its stun back and we have balances plus something to help stamblade healing out of cloak.

leepalmer95 · July 2017

Mag Sorcs are fine bro...yes...surely they are ....i swear

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

vpy wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

agingerinohio wrote: »

Don't need an entire class because of pvp. They are fine. The class was designed to be a high damage DD. The other classes in PvP have the same potential of having very high burst as well. As for the shields, any magica class has the ability to shield stack. What I want to see (being someone who has primarily played magica characters and now experimenting with stamina) is better shielding options for stamina builds.

Stam classes have vigor which is a ridiculous heal. Shields paired with vigor would actually be OP/broken.

Mate

You lose your credibility when you equate the PVP potency or Vigor with noncrittable shields

Mate

That's not even what happened I was saying vigor paired with shields would be OP.

You don't even know what's going on hence why you are starting these threads.

Sorcs are not OP you desperately need to L2P. I believe in you.

Sorcs are OP in comparison to the other classes.

I can show multiple Recaps of Implosion hittin my 5\7 heavy armor tank taking a 6k implosion in my face with capped out resistances and food buffs up. That passive execute hit harder than an entire skill tree

And that's just a single aspect of it. Shields not being critable allow sorcs to spec full damage with no repercussions. Because Max Magic= Stronger shields.

And that's just straight facts Mate

By passive execute.

You mean the one that has a 6% chance to proc on lightning damage when under 15% hp?

Chances are if implosion procs your was going to die anyway or would of died from the last skills damage.

Chance

A very apt description where people at 15% have plenty of health to recover but instead get an excute from nowhere without any prompt hitting for 6k on even a full heavy armor build with maxed out resistances and food buff.

I'm appalled to think what others ( who aren't already mag sorcs too) have to deal with for different armors if I'm wearing Heavy with max resistances.

How does none of that register with you

E.g. you let yourself get to Very Very low hp and think its OP if you die to a low proccing passive.

Even on a 30k hp tank build thats 4500 hp, literally every skill even something like crushing shock will kill you at that hp, 1 curse, 1 frag or the pre cast execute.

Not even taking into account the execute which executes at 20%, your not going to survive at that hp and honestly you shouldn't be able too.

Your complaining you die when at 15% hp and it should be nerfed because you die to it? Thats all i'm seeing. Do you think you shouldn't be able to survive it? I'm confused.

starkerealm · July 2017

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

vpy wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

agingerinohio wrote: »

Don't need an entire class because of pvp. They are fine. The class was designed to be a high damage DD. The other classes in PvP have the same potential of having very high burst as well. As for the shields, any magica class has the ability to shield stack. What I want to see (being someone who has primarily played magica characters and now experimenting with stamina) is better shielding options for stamina builds.

Stam classes have vigor which is a ridiculous heal. Shields paired with vigor would actually be OP/broken.

Mate

You lose your credibility when you equate the PVP potency or Vigor with noncrittable shields

Mate

That's not even what happened I was saying vigor paired with shields would be OP.

You don't even know what's going on hence why you are starting these threads.

Sorcs are not OP you desperately need to L2P. I believe in you.

Sorcs are OP in comparison to the other classes.

I can show multiple Recaps of Implosion hittin my 5\7 heavy armor tank taking a 6k implosion in my face with capped out resistances and food buffs up. That passive execute hit harder than an entire skill tree

And that's just a single aspect of it. Shields not being critable allow sorcs to spec full damage with no repercussions. Because Max Magic= Stronger shields.

And that's just straight facts Mate

By passive execute.

You mean the one that has a 6% chance to proc on lightning damage when under 15% hp?

Chances are if implosion procs your was going to die anyway or would of died from the last skills damage.

Chance

A very apt description where people at 15% have plenty of health to recover but instead get an excute from nowhere without any prompt hitting for 6k on even a full heavy armor build with maxed out resistances and food buff.

I'm appalled to think what others ( who aren't already mag sorcs too) have to deal with for different armors if I'm wearing Heavy with max resistances.

How does none of that register with you

E.g. you let yourself get to Very Very low hp and think its OP if you die to a low proccing passive.

Even on a 30k hp tank build thats 4500 hp, literally every skill even something like crushing shock will kill you at that hp, 1 curse, 1 frag or the pre cast execute.

Not even taking into account the execute which executes at 20%, your not going to survive at that hp and honestly you shouldn't be able too.

Your complaining you die when at 15% hp and it should be nerfed because you die to it? Thats all i'm seeing. Do you think you shouldn't be able to survive it? I'm confused.

Nelson wants to survive his own execution? He really is a rebel.

ccfeeling · July 2017

Buff other classes but dont nerf Mag Sorcs

No nerfing is required , just keep only one class in the game to match zos intention.

Morgul667 · July 2017

Mag Sorcs are fine bro...yes...surely they are ....i swear

Just stop the nerf threads

Tasear · July 2017

Mag Sorcs are fine bro...yes...surely they are ....i swear

Sounds like someone had a rough night in cydrolli.

Then what about all those gankers. But they already lower concussion up time for next patch Streak increases in cost.. no other skill does.

Cardhwion · July 2017

Mag Sorcs are fine bro...yes...surely they are ....i swear

1. Never nerf a class for the sake of PVP.

2. Mag Sorcs are fine in PVE.

3. Buffing other classes to make their life easier in PVE is fine where it is needed.

4. Never nerf anything for the sake of PVP.

ofSunhold · July 2017

You know what's really sad about this, is it isn't really that sorcs are OP. It's that they are currently the only class that's got all of its stuff working well. They have good passives which are relevant to entire skill lines. They have good sustain and good, convenient self-buffs. Oh, and all their skills work and are useful. The luxury! Everybody should have those things, but since they don't sorcs are ascendant.

So I'm really reluctant to get on the nerf train. That's saying, "Break that one class you've got in good order, we have no faith you'll ever manage it for the rest."

That said, I know shields *** people off and all, but if they screw with them (again) because of sorcs, most magicka specs also take the hit. Not helpful. All of their class shields, again, are working so smoothly I'd hate to see them nerfed either.

Which leaves cutting their power, or their mobility. I love streak, but maybe it's time it was re-worked. They also have instant access to major expedition. That's too much on top of their offensive power and excellent defenses. If they're going to get hit, I'd pick this before I'd take away power. Sorcs should bring the storm.

It'll be something eventually, and it's really too bad. They're in a great spot, it's just that it's so much better than where the rest of the classes are.

Malacthulhu · July 2017

What are you balancing them against?

Betsararie · July 2017

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Sure sorcs have so good skills but every class has strong skills. You dont see me asking to nerf cloak, incap strike and surprise attack because these skills basically define the NB class

This is a good way to put it.

Basically, what these people who don't know what they're doing are doing is asking to dismantle the entire sorc class so that it is literally no longer playable.

- Shields are our only lifeline, and we do not have the highest survivability in pvp anyway. No need to nerf
- Streak is a docile yet effective skill. No logically justifiable reason to call it OP.
- Frags is easily dodgeable and entirely based on chance. I'll go entire fights without it proccing.
- Endless Fury is powerful yes, but given how little damage crushing shock actually does per use, endless fury is entirely balanced.

There is nothing to call OP. Just people whining because they got killed by sorcs a lot. The vast majority of sorc players are actually very easy kills if you know the game.

WuffyCerulei · July 2017

Buff other classes but dont nerf Mag Sorcs

Need a rework passives option.

SanTii.92 · July 2017

Mag Sorcs are fine bro...yes...surely they are ....i swear

Yep.

Houshiki · July 2017

WTF... seriously... another "nerf sorcs thread"... really?

Umm... ok.

Streak, pretty sure it increases the cost whenever used in quick succession. Around 4 seconds.

Implosion is only a 6% proc chance when the target is under 15% health. More than likely you'd get hit with another execute or some other killing blow.

Endless fury's execute threshold is at 20%. And acts just as it is, an execute.

As for shields, sure they can't be critted, but they're also significantly reduced in Cyrodiil, and don't retain the caster's resistances. If you really want to be able to crit sorc shields, how about a compromise and let shields retain the caster's resistances.

That aside, shields are the sorcs' defense, similar to a templar's healing being their defense, a dk's flappers and being tanky af, and a nb's ability to cloak.

Anyways, my opinion, I probably have faulty wording, logic, or info here and there.

NyassaV · July 2017

Buff other classes but dont nerf Mag Sorcs

Sorcs are an issue because of where other classes are. I know how to play every class in this game (Don't as about rotation though, I suck there), and playing as a sorc in PvP was by far the easier to do. It required the least amount of practive and dedication to pick up. Now I play a night-mage and I can sometimes kill sorcs just fine... But their abilty to stun with frags, is such an issue. I suggest taking away the hard CC on the frags proc and only have the hard CC applied when the sorc takes the 1 second cast time to cast it.

Houshiki · July 2017

Hollery wrote: »

Sorcs are an issue because of where other classes are. I know how to play every class in this game (Don't as about rotation though, I suck there), and playing as a sorc in PvP was by far the easier to do. It required the least amount of practive and dedication to pick up. Now I play a night-mage and I can sometimes kill sorcs just fine... But their abilty to stun with frags, is such an issue. I suggest taking away the hard CC on the frags proc and only have the hard CC applied when the sorc takes the 1 second cast time to cast it.

DKs have stonefist, stuns for 3 seconds. Instant.

Templars has their javelin, stuns for 1.8 seconds, and has a 5m knock back. Instant.

NBs have lotus fan/ambush, not a stun itself but can stun from stealth. Is a gap closer and snare. Instant.

Sorcs' frags, stuns for 2 seconds. 1 second cast time. 35% chance for an instant cast proc.

So... why exactly is a sorc's ability to stun an issue?

leepalmer95 · July 2017

Mag Sorcs are fine bro...yes...surely they are ....i swear

Houshiki wrote: »

Hollery wrote: »

Sorcs are an issue because of where other classes are. I know how to play every class in this game (Don't as about rotation though, I suck there), and playing as a sorc in PvP was by far the easier to do. It required the least amount of practive and dedication to pick up. Now I play a night-mage and I can sometimes kill sorcs just fine... But their abilty to stun with frags, is such an issue. I suggest taking away the hard CC on the frags proc and only have the hard CC applied when the sorc takes the 1 second cast time to cast it.

DKs have stonefist, stuns for 3 seconds. Instant.

Templars has their javelin, stuns for 1.8 seconds, and has a 5m knock back. Instant.

NBs have lotus fan/ambush, not a stun itself but can stun from stealth. Is a gap closer and snare. Instant.

Sorcs' frags, stuns for 2 seconds. 1 second cast time. 35% chance for an instant cast proc.

So... why exactly is a sorc's ability to stun an issue?

Because he hasn't learn to react to the big purple glowing hards yet and learned to dodge or block it.

Tonturri · July 2017

I have a ferocious, holy hatred for Implosion and would rather something that's more consistent. A small chance to instantly kill someone who was going to die anyway is not a passive I find at all useful.

Partially because I'm going to kill them anyway so the passive is of no use to me, and partially because when people see it on their death recap they think it's OP. Change it to give a flat damage reduction (no armor or spell res, just, say...minor protection?) when standing in that lightning pool thingy sorcs use in pve.

Houshiki · July 2017

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Houshiki wrote: »

Hollery wrote: »

Sorcs are an issue because of where other classes are. I know how to play every class in this game (Don't as about rotation though, I suck there), and playing as a sorc in PvP was by far the easier to do. It required the least amount of practive and dedication to pick up. Now I play a night-mage and I can sometimes kill sorcs just fine... But their abilty to stun with frags, is such an issue. I suggest taking away the hard CC on the frags proc and only have the hard CC applied when the sorc takes the 1 second cast time to cast it.

DKs have stonefist, stuns for 3 seconds. Instant.

Templars has their javelin, stuns for 1.8 seconds, and has a 5m knock back. Instant.

NBs have lotus fan/ambush, not a stun itself but can stun from stealth. Is a gap closer and snare. Instant.

Sorcs' frags, stuns for 2 seconds. 1 second cast time. 35% chance for an instant cast proc.

So... why exactly is a sorc's ability to stun an issue?

Because he hasn't learn to react to the big purple glowing hards yet and learned to dodge or block it.

Oh, oh, i also forgot to mention it can be seen a mile away and can be easily avoided. Worst case scenario, a dk reflects it back.

Tonturri wrote: »

I have a ferocious, holy hatred for Implosion and would rather something that's more consistent. A small chance to instantly kill someone who was going to die anyway is not a passive I find at all useful.

Partially because I'm going to kill them anyway so the passive is of no use to me, and partially because when people see it on their death recap they think it's OP. Change it to give a flat damage reduction (no armor or spell res, just, say...minor protection?) when standing in that lightning pool thingy sorcs use in pve.

I don't really see the issue with implosion. It's rarely seen in fights with such low hp anyways. It only really becomes apparent long boss fights with ludicrous amounts of health.

Malmai · July 2017

Slightly reduce the overall burst or damage or usage of Mag Sorc PVP goodies like (shields (make them crittable), streak (increase cost etc), implosion (disable it in PVP), endless fury (reduce the burst or time), curse (reduce the burst etc) or )something else BUT SPECIFIC ONLY TO PVP

Shields need to get nerfed like next patch no more freeride...

GeorgeBlack · July 2017

Buff other classes but dont nerf Mag Sorcs

Hahahahaha

Ohh...
Look at them defending magsorcs.

PvP Eso is all about going from attack mode (pressure and burst on target) to defence mode as quick as you can in order to diminish your opponents resources and magsorc do that so easily.

CC? Magsorc got a Teleport which helps them get away but also stuns enemies it runs through, so add MOBILITY.
Gap closers following?? barrier barrier traps kill kill.

Magsorc benefit from Delayed damage which is such a powerful tool in this combat system
Benefit from destro ulty. Benefit from meteor. Such powerful tools that amplify their delayed damage bursts (while they are protected by their shields).

Good luck killing them with all the barriers, traps, CCs Teleport they cast from their ENDLESS MAGIKA POOL.
Good luck keeping your HP at 60% from such strong offence AND at the same time go through their barriers WHILE all they have to do is maintain stamina FOR ONE BREAK FREE.

Can I survive long enough to burn their stamina?
Do I have resources to CC and kill them after all this time under their fire?
If I don't manage can they just teleport, apply shields, traps and recover?
Can I recover from such a failure?

Well I could do something if I was a stupid proctard or if I had a stamina Dk Reflecting Scales

Btw why the fvck is this skill magika? They got everything else what utility do I have as a stamDK?

You know what's the counter play in every game against mage nukers? Silence.
In ESO let's name this ability Negate and make it an ultimate, give it to sorc and forget all about it.

No ye... vote "it's fine as it is" in the poll and call for L2P.
Let class balance occur and then L2P yourselves.

I will never ever play a lame mage class in any game. Weak move

And that's what Grinds My Gears. Back to you Tom

Shields
Delayed dmg
Execution
Ground protection
Teleport
CCs
Dps all from magika.

Adernath · July 2017

Mag Sorcs are fine bro...yes...surely they are ....i swear

vpy wrote: »

Since we all agree the damage and burst of Mag Sorcs is way overboard (especially in PVP) I am thinking of some ideas to level the playground...:)

What do you guys think we should do ?

No we do not agree. And can you perhaps make the last option not sound so biased maybe?

All is just fine.

Now L2P your class.

NeillMcAttack · July 2017

Block more frags!

leepalmer95 · July 2017

Mag Sorcs are fine bro...yes...surely they are ....i swear

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Hahahahaha

Ohh...
Look at them defending magsorcs.

PvP Eso is all about going from attack mode (pressure and burst on target) to defence mode as quick as you can in order to diminish your opponents resources and magsorc do that so easily.

CC? Magsorc got a Teleport which helps them get away but also stuns enemies it runs through, so add MOBILITY.
Gap closers following?? barrier barrier traps kill kill.

Magsorc benefit from Delayed damage which is such a powerful tool in this combat system
Benefit from destro ulty. Benefit from meteor. Such powerful tools that amplify their delayed damage bursts (while they are protected by their shields).

Good luck killing them with all the barriers, traps, CCs Teleport they cast from their ENDLESS MAGIKA POOL.
Good luck keeping your HP at 60% from such strong offence AND at the same time go through their barriers WHILE all they have to do is maintain stamina FOR ONE BREAK FREE.

Can I survive long enough to burn their stamina?
Do I have resources to CC and kill them after all this time under their fire?
If I don't manage can they just teleport, apply shields, traps and recover?
Can I recover from such a failure?

Well I could do something if I was a stupid proctard or if I had a stamina Dk Reflecting Scales

Btw why the fvck is this skill magika? They got everything else what utility do I have as a stamDK?

You know what's the counter play in every game against mage nukers? Silence.
In ESO let's name this ability Negate and make it an ultimate, give it to sorc and forget all about it.

No ye... vote "it's fine as it is" in the poll and call for L2P.
Let class balance occur and then L2P yourselves.

I will never ever play a lame mage class in any game. Weak move

And that's what Grinds My Gears. Back to you Tom

Shields
Delayed dmg
Execution
Ground protection
Teleport
CCs
Dps all from magika.

I usually just ignore your posts as their bias is horrible, plus you have don't have a general understanding as of the game as your quite new.

Now what do you have as a stam dk?

Access to the best stam ult in the game.
Easy access to a small shield and major mending.
Access to more healing in the form of an armor buff and a passive.
Access to one of the strongest dots in the same.
Access to strong heals in the form of rally and vigor which work well with the healing buffs.
Stamina return, your main resource via using magicka
Resource return for using ults which synergies better with stamina dk because of access to heroism being a 1h&s skill as well and bloodspawn working better for stam dk's

It's a lot more expensive for sorc's to casts shields than it is for people to damage them.

Also don't name non class skills as a 'benefit' for a class, meteor and destro ult have nothing to do with mag sorc.

As always rage away with your sarcasm due to lack of knowledge. Do take issue with mag sorc like you do with the fact s&b can deal damage?

idk · July 2017

Mag Sorcs are fine bro...yes...surely they are ....i swear

Alite wrote: »

People suggesting making shields crittable without any other changes to compensate for this change have honestly no idea what they are talking about.
Maybe read up on the logic of WHY they aren't crittable then come back here to debate, until then your suggestions are a waste of time to read.

The overly simplistic aspect of the OP strongly suggests a lack of knowledge of PvP to begin with. That is our second clue. The first clue is the absurdity of open the statement that "we all agree" with the opinion that seems to be laid out.

Bashev · July 2017

There is no counter to shields except shield breaker or obvilion damage glyph. Defile should decrease the shields as it will reduce the health recovery next patch.

leepalmer95 · July 2017

Mag Sorcs are fine bro...yes...surely they are ....i swear

Bashev wrote: »

There is no counter to shields except shield breaker or obvilion damage glyph. Defile should decrease the shields as it will reduce the health recovery next patch.

But in that case we need a similar buff which increases shields just as much, because while shields can be strong in a 1v1 in an open world or group X v X fight they aren't. Also some classes don't have access to defile while others have too much access.

Any 2 good build will melt my shields faster than i can apply them.
Where as if i'm stamina i can dodge both of those people just as effectively if there was 1.

schwarzman1 · July 2017

Mag Sorcs are fine bro...yes...surely they are ....i swear

Sorcs are not OP. No nerf needed. Sounds like a L2P issue. Where's the lol button!

Bashev · July 2017

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

There is no counter to shields except shield breaker or obvilion damage glyph. Defile should decrease the shields as it will reduce the health recovery next patch.

But in that case we need a similar buff which increases shields just as much, because while shields can be strong in a 1v1 in an open world or group X v X fight they aren't. Also some classes don't have access to defile while others have too much access.

Any 2 good build will melt my shields faster than i can apply them.
Where as if i'm stamina i can dodge both of those people just as effectively if there was 1.

Or you prefer roll dodge treatment? Similar debuf as fatigue for shields?
Or the damage vs shields should not be reduced in any other way. You said that you want to buff your shileds but any protection buff on you or maim buff on your enemy actually increase the strength of your shields.

idk · July 2017

Mag Sorcs are fine bro...yes...surely they are ....i swear

Bashev wrote: »

There is no counter to shields except shield breaker or obvilion damage glyph. Defile should decrease the shields as it will reduce the health recovery next patch.

Nothing buffs shields either. Mending buffs do not buff shield so it would be logical that defile would not debuff shields. These things work both ways.