Moglijuana wrote: »

So let me get this straight. DK's get gutted patch after patch that reduce their ability to tank...but then @ZOS_GinaBruno says they're meant to be tanks?

That explains why I can "tank" so well wielding a destro/resto in Cyrodiil with my limited mobility, sub par defense, and easily countered DOT's AND THE MOST EXPENSIVE SKILLS IN THE MOTHER F***ING GAME.

Makes perfect sense, I don't know how I was so blind. Thank you ZOS for showing me the way...idk how I've been able to play my DK so wrong for so long...smh. What a sad joke.

Starless06 wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno I understand that there may not be significant changes to DK before the release date. I assume the poster was asking about a mDK damage role. What does "(as it should be being a tank)" mean in regards to a damage dealer role?

Maybe you misunderstood the question?

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

PTS is not now, never was intended to be and never will be a vehicle for 11th hour drastic changes in the direction of the river. Those major course shifts were planned and decided way before pts. Anybody thinking the minute fraction of players participating in PTS (or the slightly not as minute fraction who follow the streamers, eso live, forums et al) are ever going to change the course of the river are just not being realistic.

That is not the same as saying your feedback isnt being heard.

are you a developer in eso ?

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

To be fair, there have been changes in each PTS patch, but they aren't the changes you're looking for (sorry, had to get a #MayTheFourth joke in today somewhere). At the risk of regurgitating the same thing we've said before, we do care about your feedback, but keep in mind there's feedback coming from many different sources, some of which everyone here doesn't see (like in-game feedback, for example). Also, we need to take a look at what's best for the entire game and for its future. Your feedback isn't useless - we do read, and we do take everything into consideration.

@ZOS_GinaBruno There's been a lot of angst RE: the state of DK, specifically mDK. Last year, when there were similar concerns about the state of Stamina Sorcerer Wrobel did like a mini QA to provide the players with an idea of where he saw the class headed. Any chance we could get something similar on DK? I think some of our stress could be assuaged if we could at least see the direction Development has for this class.

Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.

Weps wrote: »

Rainteal wrote: »

Starless06 wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno I understand that there may not be significant changes to DK before the release date. I assume the poster was asking about a mDK damage role. What does "(as it should be being a tank)" mean in regards to a damage dealer role?

Maybe you misunderstood the question?

I am sure that was the case. Unfortunately, people will quote this ad nauseam as PROOF that ZOS LIES!!! Blah Blah Blah

This right here is why ZOS doesn't regularly communicate in community discussion. This, is why we cannot have nice things...

Lol, who's saying ZoS is lying?
We're asking for more clarity regarding that statement.
If the Devs, Wrobel or whoever is in charge of balancing the class think the Dk is pretty much ok like this because it's supposed to be tankier but still putting up decent damage, then we should understand a little bit more what's their idea for the future of the class because clearly Stam Dk has been gradually ignored in the past year and half and Magicka DK has been slightly buffed with the previous patch and destroyed in this one.

And again, StamDKs Dps is pretty "powerful" against immobile or scripted targets but they're now lacking everything against intelligent life forms.

I won't even dignify the whole blame shifting ending part with a well thought because is such small-minded as a comment I won't even waste the energy I need to elaborate a reply with my second language.

LonePirate wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno There's been a lot of angst RE: the state of DK, specifically mDK. Last year, when there were similar concerns about the state of Stamina Sorcerer Wrobel did like a mini QA to provide the players with an idea of where he saw the class headed. Any chance we could get something similar on DK? I think some of our stress could be assuaged if we could at least see the direction Development has for this class.

Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.

I asked this in another thread and I will ask this here. Have any of the devs taken a Magicka DK into Cyrodiil or into Battlegrounds? The class is in shambles. The class skills deal very little damage in PVP situations - the least damage of the five classes - even though the class skills are melee skills. Melee weapon skills do far more damage than the DK melee class skills. Other classes have ranged class skills that deal more damage than DK melee skills, which is exactly the opposite of the reasoning given in the past for making melee weapon skills deal more damage than ranged weapon skills.

Then there are the issues related to the class's worst is game sustain, the absurdly high skill costs, the pathetically weak PVP self-heals, the complete absence of a class execute, the sub-par shields and the some of the worst class passive skills in the game. If the class is supposed to be the tank class as you say, then it needs to have high sustain and high quality shields at a minimum with strong melee damage, and low skill costs as well. Magicka DKs, tanks and non-tanks alike, have none of those things. If the dev team had taken a Magicka DK into Cyrodiil or Battlegrounds, especially in the PTS against actual players, they would experience first hand the dismal state of the class right now.

When the dev team fails to recognize and resolve these plainly visible faults and fails to explain them amidst an enormous backlash from the player base, then something is wrong somewhere. ZOS must take the responsibility of addressing the problems or educating and communicating with players why they possess a vision that is diametrically opposed to the vision held by players. I think I speak for many DKs out there when I ask "Why are you doing this to us?"

Gomumon wrote: »

ZoM_Head wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

To be fair, there have been changes in each PTS patch, but they aren't the changes you're looking for (sorry, had to get a #MayTheFourth joke in today somewhere). At the risk of regurgitating the same thing we've said before, we do care about your feedback, but keep in mind there's feedback coming from many different sources, some of which everyone here doesn't see (like in-game feedback, for example). Also, we need to take a look at what's best for the entire game and for its future. Your feedback isn't useless - we do read, and we do take everything into consideration.

Fair points, but the changes you're referencing are minor, cosmetic changes; and the community here, Facebook, Twitter, Reddit, game-magazine Forums, Streamers on Twitch and YouTube, etc., are all very unhappy and voicing their well-thought out and numbers-proven concerns over the blanket nerfs you're making to every area of Sustain and Cost Reduction in the game.

But even with the entire internet blowing up with discontent over your proposed changes; all we get is that you're going to steam on ahead regardless of the legions of players who are not happy with these changes in any way?

This is not an "I quit" post. But the changes you guys are powering on with have really and seriously decreased my desire to log in to your game each night.

I usually log in for 2-4 hours every night, which is 14-28 hours per week. Since these changes are steaming ahead and you're blatantly ignoring feedback that doesn't agree with the massive, core-mechanics changes that you're forcing on a player base that doesn't want them, I've only logged in to the Live server for a total of around 4 hours in the last two weeks.

Is that your goal? Because that's what it's done to me, and according to... pretty much everywhere I go in the internet, that's what it's doing to a lot of players as well.

We don't care that you guys at ZOS think these changes are "what's best for the game". We're testing your content, your changes, and WE'RE giving you numbers, experiences, and evidence that proves that your ideas ARE NOT what's "best for the game". In fact, what we're finding is; your proposed changes are highly detrimental to the game.

But as you illustrated so eloquently in your post, you (as an entire company) aren't actually listening, nor do you care.

These PTS servers and Forums are a placebo. There to make us think that our opinions, numbers, videos, and evidence have weight with your developers; when in fact that have no weight at all.

So you tell me, Gina. With these changes destroying three out of five classes and (despite what you guys say about wanting "fast-paced combat") greatly slowing combat and player potency dropping into the gutter, what is there that should tempt me to log-in more than the minuscule four (4) hours a week that I've dropped to since 3.0 arrived her on the PTS?

You're taking three years worth of work, building up characters I love and am very happy playing, and you're flushing it with these changes. Three years building up my characters, just to have them become VASTLY weaker (and nigh unplayable) with the Morrowind patch.

Aside from the pathetic cosmetic changes that do nothing to fix the abortive issues to player strength that these patches are doing, what are you guys doing to actually "listen" to us?

Because with the gaming internet in the state that it's in over your changes; do you think the line of "it may not be what you want, but nerfing your characters into the ground is what we feel is best", do you really think that's going to go over well with the players once this goes live?

Because the Streamers that you value so highly are already spreading the word that these changes are atrocious. And thier fans/followers? They listen, whereas you (as a company) obviously are not.

As aggressive as what the OP said, i must agree with this. I used to put 8+ hours daily in this game (my main magicka DK has well over 4,000 hours), but since the release of the PTS and its current direction, i log in grab hirelings and log off, i do not even bother with crafting dailies, i even cancelled my morrowind collector's edition pre-order. I alone may not make a difference in the game to you, but there is nothing i can further do from my end. I gave you my opinions, numerous times since the Imperial City patch, and it has been downhill for my main character (magicka DK) since then. I have been loyal since beta, subscriber since day 1 till today, morrowind is seriously making me regret everything i have done.

No, I agree. I subscribed to ESO Plus 180 days at a time and pre-ordered Morrowind myself. I was playing 20 hrs a week. Ever since the first round of PTS this patch, I lost almost all motivation to continue putting time and energy into something that could all be for nigh at the whim of the devs. I can give my feedback, but I can't pretend that I know how to develop a game better than they do. However, that doesn't mean that I need to keep subscribing to it.

As many have said, it seems like, after three years, they're still unsure of what direction they wanna take this game in, who they're catering to (new customers or veteran subscribers), or how to balance 4 classes, 3 roles, and 2 metagames then adding a 5th class to the mix. I am not entitled to tell them what to do with their game, but I am entitled to my money. I have lost faith in ZOS and, while I still hope that this game will remain fun, I do not feel confident moving forward in continuing to give them large lump sums of money on a regular basis or buy new content.

Thus, it seems that for people like us, the only solution is to cancel our pre-orders and Plus subscriptions, as they likely won't implement any changes before this goes live that we'll be happy with. On the bright side, I've been trying out other F2Ps until I see a P2P worthwhile, and playing Magic: The Gathering Online, and catching up on all the anime and TV shows I've missed sinking all my free time into keeping up with ESO. It's actually kind of freeing.

NBrookus wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

To be fair, there have been changes in each PTS patch, but they aren't the changes you're looking for (sorry, had to get a #MayTheFourth joke in today somewhere). At the risk of regurgitating the same thing we've said before, we do care about your feedback, but keep in mind there's feedback coming from many different sources, some of which everyone here doesn't see (like in-game feedback, for example). Also, we need to take a look at what's best for the entire game and for its future. Your feedback isn't useless - we do read, and we do take everything into consideration.

@ZOS_GinaBruno There's been a lot of angst RE: the state of DK, specifically mDK. Last year, when there were similar concerns about the state of Stamina Sorcerer Wrobel did like a mini QA to provide the players with an idea of where he saw the class headed. Any chance we could get something similar on DK? I think some of our stress could be assuaged if we could at least see the direction Development has for this class.

Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.

Speaking as someone who does lean toward tanky DKs, removing our major mending and nerfing blocking and nerfing our primary resource return to buff a resource we don't need as much is not making us powerful as tanks. Tanks need MORE sustain than DPS classes, not less.

The reality is in PvP you still have to be able to kill people even if you build tanky, otherwise you are just a walking ultimate generator that dies last.

But why are DKs being told we are only supposed to be tanks when we have 3 DPS skill lines? Doesn't Warden have skill lines for tanking, healing and DPS? Weren't the Orb/Shard changes all about allowing other classes to be good support healers? Why are Dragonknights now being told we are only supposed to do one role?

Nebthet78 wrote: »

ZoM_Head wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

To be fair, there have been changes in each PTS patch, but they aren't the changes you're looking for (sorry, had to get a #MayTheFourth joke in today somewhere). At the risk of regurgitating the same thing we've said before, we do care about your feedback, but keep in mind there's feedback coming from many different sources, some of which everyone here doesn't see (like in-game feedback, for example). Also, we need to take a look at what's best for the entire game and for its future. Your feedback isn't useless - we do read, and we do take everything into consideration.

Fair points, but the changes you're referencing are minor, cosmetic changes; and the community here, Facebook, Twitter, Reddit, game-magazine Forums, Streamers on Twitch and YouTube, etc., are all very unhappy and voicing their well-thought out and numbers-proven concerns over the blanket nerfs you're making to every area of Sustain and Cost Reduction in the game.

But even with the entire internet blowing up with discontent over your proposed changes; all we get is that you're going to steam on ahead regardless of the legions of players who are not happy with these changes in any way?

This is not an "I quit" post. But the changes you guys are powering on with have really and seriously decreased my desire to log in to your game each night.

I usually log in for 2-4 hours every night, which is 14-28 hours per week. Since these changes are steaming ahead and you're blatantly ignoring feedback that doesn't agree with the massive, core-mechanics changes that you're forcing on a player base that doesn't want them, I've only logged in to the Live server for a total of around 4 hours in the last two weeks.

Is that your goal? Because that's what it's done to me, and according to... pretty much everywhere I go in the internet, that's what it's doing to a lot of players as well.

We don't care that you guys at ZOS think these changes are "what's best for the game". We're testing your content, your changes, and WE'RE giving you numbers, experiences, and evidence that proves that your ideas ARE NOT what's "best for the game". In fact, what we're finding is; your proposed changes are highly detrimental to the game.

But as you illustrated so eloquently in your post, you (as an entire company) aren't actually listening, nor do you care.

These PTS servers and Forums are a placebo. There to make us think that our opinions, numbers, videos, and evidence have weight with your developers; when in fact that have no weight at all.

So you tell me, Gina. With these changes destroying three out of five classes and (despite what you guys say about wanting "fast-paced combat") greatly slowing combat and player potency dropping into the gutter, what is there that should tempt me to log-in more than the minuscule four (4) hours a week that I've dropped to since 3.0 arrived her on the PTS?

You're taking three years worth of work, building up characters I love and am very happy playing, and you're flushing it with these changes. Three years building up my characters, just to have them become VASTLY weaker (and nigh unplayable) with the Morrowind patch.

Aside from the pathetic cosmetic changes that do nothing to fix the abortive issues to player strength that these patches are doing, what are you guys doing to actually "listen" to us?

Because with the gaming internet in the state that it's in over your changes; do you think the line of "it may not be what you want, but nerfing your characters into the ground is what we feel is best", do you really think that's going to go over well with the players once this goes live?

Because the Streamers that you value so highly are already spreading the word that these changes are atrocious. And thier fans/followers? They listen, whereas you (as a company) obviously are not.

As aggressive as what the OP said, i must agree with this. I used to put 8+ hours daily in this game (my main magicka DK has well over 4,000 hours), but since the release of the PTS and its current direction, i log in grab hirelings and log off, i do not even bother with crafting dailies, i even cancelled my morrowind collector's edition pre-order. I alone may not make a difference in the game to you, but there is nothing i can further do from my end. I gave you my opinions, numerous times since the Imperial City patch, and it has been downhill for my main character (magicka DK) since then. I have been loyal since beta, subscriber since day 1 till today, morrowind is seriously making me regret everything i have done.

You are not alone. I only log in once a week now to check to see if anything in my guild traders has sold. The PTS has killed my desired to continue to play this game and I used to be a daily 8+hr player.

Northern_Eve wrote: »

Hmmm.

So DKs are meant to be tanks. That's it. As long as they are good tanks, that' enough and the class is fine according to ZoS. No need for diversity.

At the same time Templar healers are getting nerfed on several fronts because every class should be able to fill every role. And according to ZoS Templas aren't allowed to shine in the healer role anymore because it's all about diversity.

I'm sorry but all this seems a bit too contradictory. Difficult to believe there is some kind of master plan or vision behind this mess.

lordrichter wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

To be fair, there have been changes in each PTS patch, but they aren't the changes you're looking for (sorry, had to get a #MayTheFourth joke in today somewhere). At the risk of regurgitating the same thing we've said before, we do care about your feedback, but keep in mind there's feedback coming from many different sources, some of which everyone here doesn't see (like in-game feedback, for example). Also, we need to take a look at what's best for the entire game and for its future. Your feedback isn't useless - we do read, and we do take everything into consideration.

@ZOS_GinaBruno There's been a lot of angst RE: the state of DK, specifically mDK. Last year, when there were similar concerns about the state of Stamina Sorcerer Wrobel did like a mini QA to provide the players with an idea of where he saw the class headed. Any chance we could get something similar on DK? I think some of our stress could be assuaged if we could at least see the direction Development has for this class.

Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.

Oh boy. While I appreciate the honesty and the feedback, I'm pretty sure after the forum backlash it's going to be a while until we get a transparent ZoS response like this.

My thought is that if Gina had left out the "(as it should be being a tank)" that people would not be as upset. As it is, they are taking the statement out of context and going into a rage, potentially shutting down all further comment.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.

Nolic1 wrote: »

I would like to point out only about 5% to !0% of the player base even checks in on the forums and this has been said by many dev's sense the days of old. I would also like to point out that @ZOS_GinaBruno Comment is being taken way out of context when it comes to DK tanking she is meaning that DK tanks are still just as viable as always but of course its getting bypassed by the many naysayers here.

Again these changes are needed to put the game into a more balanced play where all classes can be any role and be viable and not any one class is best in any but have small advantages for certain roles. Plus this might be a MMO but its not WoW and not EQ2 or any other mmo its ESO so remember that to please.