Why even bother with having a PTS

Weps

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.

I'm sorry Gina but could we get a dev comment regarding this statement to understand how you consider a DK still powerful after this round of changes? There are plenty of threads made by DK players stating otherwise and just like you commented here maybe a little more communication from the Dev's team might be welcomed.

And especially can you guys make us understand how is the magicka counterpart still strong considering how impossible is going to be for a Magicka DK to play in heavy armor ( which is the minimum requirement for a tank to be powerful ) dued to having one of the worst if not THE worst sustain in the game and no execution?

Thanks

Nifty2g

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

To be fair, there have been changes in each PTS patch, but they aren't the changes you're looking for (sorry, had to get a #MayTheFourth joke in today somewhere). At the risk of regurgitating the same thing we've said before, we do care about your feedback, but keep in mind there's feedback coming from many different sources, some of which everyone here doesn't see (like in-game feedback, for example). Also, we need to take a look at what's best for the entire game and for its future. Your feedback isn't useless - we do read, and we do take everything into consideration.

What about the changes that a large portion of the community is looking for, how come they don't get considered. After 2 weeks we've only seen 1 change that the community has been asking for which is spears.

colig

"We want every class to be able to perform in any role. Oh, Dragonknights? They can be stuck being a tank."

mcgallupb14a_ESO

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

To be fair, there have been changes in each PTS patch, but they aren't the changes you're looking for (sorry, had to get a #MayTheFourth joke in today somewhere). At the risk of regurgitating the same thing we've said before, we do care about your feedback, but keep in mind there's feedback coming from many different sources, some of which everyone here doesn't see (like in-game feedback, for example). Also, we need to take a look at what's best for the entire game and for its future. Your feedback isn't useless - we do read, and we do take everything into consideration.

@ZOS_GinaBruno There's been a lot of angst RE: the state of DK, specifically mDK. Last year, when there were similar concerns about the state of Stamina Sorcerer Wrobel did like a mini QA to provide the players with an idea of where he saw the class headed. Any chance we could get something similar on DK? I think some of our stress could be assuaged if we could at least see the direction Development has for this class.

Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.

tinbromide wrote: »

Group Finder fixes?

Can you guys take a week off of nerfing my toons and fix the group finder?

We've made some fixes on the backend that should've made the Group Finder issues better on the PTS. Have you tried it out there versus what's currently on Live?

Good to have official word that DKs are meant to be tanks. Now I can stop that silly pipe dream of playing other roles with my main. Should help me clear up some inventory space, too.

Adenoma

I play DK and I don't want to be a stamDK or magDK tank. Why is the emphasis that every class can perform every role when you're increasingly limiting build diversity? I mean, you literally killed an archetype with the changes to siphoning attacks in this last PTS - now we won't see saptanks outside of ice staff gimmicks.

Really sucks for me that I've mained DK since I started the game and now you just told me that in order to remain powerful I need to perform a role I don't have an interest in performing.

technohic

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

To be fair, there have been changes in each PTS patch, but they aren't the changes you're looking for (sorry, had to get a #MayTheFourth joke in today somewhere). At the risk of regurgitating the same thing we've said before, we do care about your feedback, but keep in mind there's feedback coming from many different sources, some of which everyone here doesn't see (like in-game feedback, for example). Also, we need to take a look at what's best for the entire game and for its future. Your feedback isn't useless - we do read, and we do take everything into consideration.

@ZOS_GinaBruno There's been a lot of angst RE: the state of DK, specifically mDK. Last year, when there were similar concerns about the state of Stamina Sorcerer Wrobel did like a mini QA to provide the players with an idea of where he saw the class headed. Any chance we could get something similar on DK? I think some of our stress could be assuaged if we could at least see the direction Development has for this class.

Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.

tinbromide wrote: »

Group Finder fixes?

Can you guys take a week off of nerfing my toons and fix the group finder?

We've made some fixes on the backend that should've made the Group Finder issues better on the PTS. Have you tried it out there versus what's currently on Live?

@ZOS_GinaBruno What about NB? It was mentioned last ESO live a little about shortcomings.

Ashtaris

In a rare state of affairs, I'll have to agree with STEVEIL. I don't think there has ever been a PTS cycle where ZOS has completely reverted or rolled back the changes. They might tweak a few of them here and there, but they won't revert them. Usually what they do is come out with draconian changes, roll them back a bit to say they are listening to feedback, and then put us at the point they wanted us to be in the first place

Feanor

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

To be fair, there have been changes in each PTS patch, but they aren't the changes you're looking for (sorry, had to get a #MayTheFourth joke in today somewhere). At the risk of regurgitating the same thing we've said before, we do care about your feedback, but keep in mind there's feedback coming from many different sources, some of which everyone here doesn't see (like in-game feedback, for example). Also, we need to take a look at what's best for the entire game and for its future. Your feedback isn't useless - we do read, and we do take everything into consideration.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

To me it would be tremendously helpful if "what's best for the entire game and for its future" got explained in a statement. We as players don't have a clear vision of what is intended because the developers never stated anything regarding that.

Sure, we have all that "raising the floor, lowering the ceiling" talk, but I'm not aware of any statement that clearly says what is the intention for normal PvE, endgame PvE, and PvP. I believe the reason is that the developers have no vision themselves other than creating new content to keep the $$ rolling.

A good start would be answering the following questions:

- Is overworld PvE and questing in the long term staying at the difficulty that was introduced with One Tamriel?

- What are the plans for endgame PvE? Are there plans to make the transition from normal dungeons to veteran dungeons to the DLC dungeons and finally vMA and group trials more smooth (mind the gap)? What will be done about the gear grind you already acknowledged being a "pain point"?

- What is the vision for PvP? Cyrodiil Maps are identical through every campaign and the same since 2014. What is the play style the developers are aiming for? Is it large scale battle? Playing objectives and small scale? Can fundamental changes like the mechanism emperors are crowned be discussed and implemented? Why are so many snares and roots in the game?

To me a very clear statement on that regard would be most interesting. IF ZOS then follows up with changes that support their stated intended goals, it's much easier to digest those even if they fundamentally change game mechanics.

The uproar right now has everything to do with this because it's just totally unclear where this ship is intended to sail. It gives the impression of a not well thought out band-aid fix like so many others before. We players don't have to agree with you about the path. But we would like to know at least.

Panth141

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.

Oh boy. Seems I've been playing wrong this whole time.

Uriel_Nocturne

Panth141 wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.

Oh boy. Seems I've been playing wrong this whole time.

Yup.

We heard it from ZOS themselves. If you've been playing a DK as anything BUT a Tank, then you've been playing the entire Class wrong.

Turelus

Darlon wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.

Who decided that all DK's should be tanks ?

Elite PvE Guilds.

Yuke

Nerf Destroy Major Mending and Blocking ... give a statement that DK is supposed to be a Tank. *** Priceless.

The Uninvited

Turelus wrote: »

Darlon wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.

Who decided that all DK's should be tanks ?

Elite PvE Guilds.

This made me laugh out loud at work. XD

SorataArisugawa

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

PTS is not now, never was intended to be and never will be a vehicle for 11th hour drastic changes in the direction of the river. Those major course shifts were planned and decided way before pts. Anybody thinking the minute fraction of players participating in PTS (or the slightly not as minute fraction who follow the streamers, eso live, forums et al) are ever going to change the course of the river are just not being realistic.

That is not the same as saying your feedback isnt being heard.

are you a developer in eso ?

No he is just a person with common sense...

Weps

Yuke wrote: »

Nerf Destroy Major Mending and Blocking ... give a statement that DK is supposed to be a Tank. *** Priceless.

Even worse than that.
Give a statement that DK is allegedely still powerful because it's a tank.

This is a glaring contradiction with everything that has been done in this patch.

Heavy armor, nerf to the ground.
Utility passives while tanking, nerf to the ground.
PvP blocking, nerf to the ground.
And now there will also be another class who can compete against a DK for tankiness and can easily smash the class regarding group utilities.

Like, wtf? XD

And Magicka DKs? Are they supposed to tank too? How can a magicka Dk block in PvP with 14k Stam that goes down twice as fast? Are we playing the same class the devs are playing? Or are the Devs constantly playing it in God Mode just like when they show off the Warden?

I'm stunned, really.

The_Lex

Frankly, I'm surprised that no one is using it yet (at least, I haven't seen it). Guess I will:

#NotMyPatchNotes

HugeMuffin

The_Patriarch wrote: »

Frankly, I'm surprised that no one is using it yet (at least, I haven't seen it). Guess I will:

#NotMyPatchNotes

This feels a little bit like the dead space between november and january 20th. Like you can see that what is coming is going to be bad, but nobody believes you and you have a few very loud voices screaming "THIS IS GOING TO BE THE BEST THING EVER!" or "We won, fair and square, suck it up if you don't like it."

Rohamad_Ali

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

To be fair, there have been changes in each PTS patch, but they aren't the changes you're looking for (sorry, had to get a #MayTheFourth joke in today somewhere). At the risk of regurgitating the same thing we've said before, we do care about your feedback, but keep in mind there's feedback coming from many different sources, some of which everyone here doesn't see (like in-game feedback, for example). Also, we need to take a look at what's best for the entire game and for its future. Your feedback isn't useless - we do read, and we do take everything into consideration.

To be fair , you might want to filter some of those opinions you are getting feedback from . They may not be the best in their fields ...

t3hdubzy

Weps wrote: »

Yuke wrote: »

Nerf Destroy Major Mending and Blocking ... give a statement that DK is supposed to be a Tank. *** Priceless.

Even worse than that.
Give a statement that DK is allegedely still powerful because it's a tank.

This is a glaring contradiction with everything that has been done in this patch.

Heavy armor, nerf to the ground.
Utility passives while tanking, nerf to the ground.
PvP blocking, nerf to the ground.
And now there will also be another class who can compete against a DK for tankiness and can easily smash the class regarding group utilities.

Like, wtf? XD

And Magicka DKs? Are they supposed to tank too? How can a magicka Dk block in PvP with 14k Stam that goes down twice as fast? Are we playing the same class the devs are playing? Or are the Devs constantly playing it in God Mode just like when they show off the Warden?

I'm stunned, really.

Bro.... ice staff.....

Weps

t3hdubzy wrote: »

Weps wrote: »

Yuke wrote: »

Nerf Destroy Major Mending and Blocking ... give a statement that DK is supposed to be a Tank. *** Priceless.

Even worse than that.
Give a statement that DK is allegedely still powerful because it's a tank.

This is a glaring contradiction with everything that has been done in this patch.

Heavy armor, nerf to the ground.
Utility passives while tanking, nerf to the ground.
PvP blocking, nerf to the ground.
And now there will also be another class who can compete against a DK for tankiness and can easily smash the class regarding group utilities.

Like, wtf? XD

And Magicka DKs? Are they supposed to tank too? How can a magicka Dk block in PvP with 14k Stam that goes down twice as fast? Are we playing the same class the devs are playing? Or are the Devs constantly playing it in God Mode just like when they show off the Warden?

I'm stunned, really.

Bro.... ice staff.....

Well yeah, light armor and Ice staff.
it's the same way as tanking with Sword and board and heavy armor.

Really the same

ZoM_Head

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

To be fair, there have been changes in each PTS patch, but they aren't the changes you're looking for (sorry, had to get a #MayTheFourth joke in today somewhere). At the risk of regurgitating the same thing we've said before, we do care about your feedback, but keep in mind there's feedback coming from many different sources, some of which everyone here doesn't see (like in-game feedback, for example). Also, we need to take a look at what's best for the entire game and for its future. Your feedback isn't useless - we do read, and we do take everything into consideration.

Fair points, but the changes you're referencing are minor, cosmetic changes; and the community here, Facebook, Twitter, Reddit, game-magazine Forums, Streamers on Twitch and YouTube, etc., are all very unhappy and voicing their well-thought out and numbers-proven concerns over the blanket nerfs you're making to every area of Sustain and Cost Reduction in the game.

But even with the entire internet blowing up with discontent over your proposed changes; all we get is that you're going to steam on ahead regardless of the legions of players who are not happy with these changes in any way?

This is not an "I quit" post. But the changes you guys are powering on with have really and seriously decreased my desire to log in to your game each night.

I usually log in for 2-4 hours every night, which is 14-28 hours per week. Since these changes are steaming ahead and you're blatantly ignoring feedback that doesn't agree with the massive, core-mechanics changes that you're forcing on a player base that doesn't want them, I've only logged in to the Live server for a total of around 4 hours in the last two weeks.

Is that your goal? Because that's what it's done to me, and according to... pretty much everywhere I go in the internet, that's what it's doing to a lot of players as well.

We don't care that you guys at ZOS think these changes are "what's best for the game". We're testing your content, your changes, and WE'RE giving you numbers, experiences, and evidence that proves that your ideas ARE NOT what's "best for the game". In fact, what we're finding is; your proposed changes are highly detrimental to the game.

But as you illustrated so eloquently in your post, you (as an entire company) aren't actually listening, nor do you care.

These PTS servers and Forums are a placebo. There to make us think that our opinions, numbers, videos, and evidence have weight with your developers; when in fact that have no weight at all.

So you tell me, Gina. With these changes destroying three out of five classes and (despite what you guys say about wanting "fast-paced combat") greatly slowing combat and player potency dropping into the gutter, what is there that should tempt me to log-in more than the minuscule four (4) hours a week that I've dropped to since 3.0 arrived her on the PTS?

You're taking three years worth of work, building up characters I love and am very happy playing, and you're flushing it with these changes. Three years building up my characters, just to have them become VASTLY weaker (and nigh unplayable) with the Morrowind patch.

Aside from the pathetic cosmetic changes that do nothing to fix the abortive issues to player strength that these patches are doing, what are you guys doing to actually "listen" to us?

Because with the gaming internet in the state that it's in over your changes; do you think the line of "it may not be what you want, but nerfing your characters into the ground is what we feel is best", do you really think that's going to go over well with the players once this goes live?

Because the Streamers that you value so highly are already spreading the word that these changes are atrocious. And thier fans/followers? They listen, whereas you (as a company) obviously are not.

As aggressive as what the OP said, i must agree with this. I used to put 8+ hours daily in this game (my main magicka DK has well over 4,000 hours), but since the release of the PTS and its current direction, i log in grab hirelings and log off, i do not even bother with crafting dailies, i even cancelled my morrowind collector's edition pre-order. I alone may not make a difference in the game to you, but there is nothing i can further do from my end. I gave you my opinions, numerous times since the Imperial City patch, and it has been downhill for my main character (magicka DK) since then. I have been loyal since beta, subscriber since day 1 till today, morrowind is seriously making me regret everything i have done.

LonePirate

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno There's been a lot of angst RE: the state of DK, specifically mDK. Last year, when there were similar concerns about the state of Stamina Sorcerer Wrobel did like a mini QA to provide the players with an idea of where he saw the class headed. Any chance we could get something similar on DK? I think some of our stress could be assuaged if we could at least see the direction Development has for this class.

Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.

I asked this in another thread and I will ask this here. Have any of the devs taken a Magicka DK into Cyrodiil or into Battlegrounds? The class is in shambles. The class skills deal very little damage in PVP situations - the least damage of the five classes - even though the class skills are melee skills. Melee weapon skills do far more damage than the DK melee class skills. Other classes have ranged class skills that deal more damage than DK melee skills, which is exactly the opposite of the reasoning given in the past for making melee weapon skills deal more damage than ranged weapon skills.

Then there are the issues related to the class's worst is game sustain, the absurdly high skill costs, the pathetically weak PVP self-heals, the complete absence of a class execute, the sub-par shields and the some of the worst class passive skills in the game. If the class is supposed to be the tank class as you say, then it needs to have high sustain and high quality shields at a minimum with strong melee damage, and low skill costs as well. Magicka DKs, tanks and non-tanks alike, have none of those things. If the dev team had taken a Magicka DK into Cyrodiil or Battlegrounds, especially in the PTS against actual players, they would experience first hand the dismal state of the class right now.

When the dev team fails to recognize and resolve these plainly visible faults and fails to explain them amidst an enormous backlash from the player base, then something is wrong somewhere. ZOS must take the responsibility of addressing the problems or educating and communicating with players why they possess a vision that is diametrically opposed to the vision held by players. I think I speak for many DKs out there when I ask "Why are you doing this to us?"

Gomumon

ZoM_Head wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

To be fair, there have been changes in each PTS patch, but they aren't the changes you're looking for (sorry, had to get a #MayTheFourth joke in today somewhere). At the risk of regurgitating the same thing we've said before, we do care about your feedback, but keep in mind there's feedback coming from many different sources, some of which everyone here doesn't see (like in-game feedback, for example). Also, we need to take a look at what's best for the entire game and for its future. Your feedback isn't useless - we do read, and we do take everything into consideration.

Fair points, but the changes you're referencing are minor, cosmetic changes; and the community here, Facebook, Twitter, Reddit, game-magazine Forums, Streamers on Twitch and YouTube, etc., are all very unhappy and voicing their well-thought out and numbers-proven concerns over the blanket nerfs you're making to every area of Sustain and Cost Reduction in the game.

But even with the entire internet blowing up with discontent over your proposed changes; all we get is that you're going to steam on ahead regardless of the legions of players who are not happy with these changes in any way?

This is not an "I quit" post. But the changes you guys are powering on with have really and seriously decreased my desire to log in to your game each night.

I usually log in for 2-4 hours every night, which is 14-28 hours per week. Since these changes are steaming ahead and you're blatantly ignoring feedback that doesn't agree with the massive, core-mechanics changes that you're forcing on a player base that doesn't want them, I've only logged in to the Live server for a total of around 4 hours in the last two weeks.

Is that your goal? Because that's what it's done to me, and according to... pretty much everywhere I go in the internet, that's what it's doing to a lot of players as well.

We don't care that you guys at ZOS think these changes are "what's best for the game". We're testing your content, your changes, and WE'RE giving you numbers, experiences, and evidence that proves that your ideas ARE NOT what's "best for the game". In fact, what we're finding is; your proposed changes are highly detrimental to the game.

But as you illustrated so eloquently in your post, you (as an entire company) aren't actually listening, nor do you care.

These PTS servers and Forums are a placebo. There to make us think that our opinions, numbers, videos, and evidence have weight with your developers; when in fact that have no weight at all.

So you tell me, Gina. With these changes destroying three out of five classes and (despite what you guys say about wanting "fast-paced combat") greatly slowing combat and player potency dropping into the gutter, what is there that should tempt me to log-in more than the minuscule four (4) hours a week that I've dropped to since 3.0 arrived her on the PTS?

You're taking three years worth of work, building up characters I love and am very happy playing, and you're flushing it with these changes. Three years building up my characters, just to have them become VASTLY weaker (and nigh unplayable) with the Morrowind patch.

Aside from the pathetic cosmetic changes that do nothing to fix the abortive issues to player strength that these patches are doing, what are you guys doing to actually "listen" to us?

Because with the gaming internet in the state that it's in over your changes; do you think the line of "it may not be what you want, but nerfing your characters into the ground is what we feel is best", do you really think that's going to go over well with the players once this goes live?

Because the Streamers that you value so highly are already spreading the word that these changes are atrocious. And thier fans/followers? They listen, whereas you (as a company) obviously are not.

As aggressive as what the OP said, i must agree with this. I used to put 8+ hours daily in this game (my main magicka DK has well over 4,000 hours), but since the release of the PTS and its current direction, i log in grab hirelings and log off, i do not even bother with crafting dailies, i even cancelled my morrowind collector's edition pre-order. I alone may not make a difference in the game to you, but there is nothing i can further do from my end. I gave you my opinions, numerous times since the Imperial City patch, and it has been downhill for my main character (magicka DK) since then. I have been loyal since beta, subscriber since day 1 till today, morrowind is seriously making me regret everything i have done.

No, I agree. I subscribed to ESO Plus 180 days at a time and pre-ordered Morrowind myself. I was playing 20 hrs a week. Ever since the first round of PTS this patch, I lost almost all motivation to continue putting time and energy into something that could all be for nigh at the whim of the devs. I can give my feedback, but I can't pretend that I know how to develop a game better than they do. However, that doesn't mean that I need to keep subscribing to it.

As many have said, it seems like, after three years, they're still unsure of what direction they wanna take this game in, who they're catering to (new customers or veteran subscribers), or how to balance 4 classes, 3 roles, and 2 metagames then adding a 5th class to the mix. I am not entitled to tell them what to do with their game, but I am entitled to my money. I have lost faith in ZOS and, while I still hope that this game will remain fun, I do not feel confident moving forward in continuing to give them large lump sums of money on a regular basis or buy new content.

Thus, it seems that for people like us, the only solution is to cancel our pre-orders and Plus subscriptions, as they likely won't implement any changes before this goes live that we'll be happy with. On the bright side, I've been trying out other F2Ps until I see a P2P worthwhile, and playing Magic: The Gathering Online, and catching up on all the anime and TV shows I've missed sinking all my free time into keeping up with ESO. It's actually kind of freeing.

ZoM_Head

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

To be fair, there have been changes in each PTS patch, but they aren't the changes you're looking for (sorry, had to get a #MayTheFourth joke in today somewhere). At the risk of regurgitating the same thing we've said before, we do care about your feedback, but keep in mind there's feedback coming from many different sources, some of which everyone here doesn't see (like in-game feedback, for example). Also, we need to take a look at what's best for the entire game and for its future. Your feedback isn't useless - we do read, and we do take everything into consideration.

@ZOS_GinaBruno There's been a lot of angst RE: the state of DK, specifically mDK. Last year, when there were similar concerns about the state of Stamina Sorcerer Wrobel did like a mini QA to provide the players with an idea of where he saw the class headed. Any chance we could get something similar on DK? I think some of our stress could be assuaged if we could at least see the direction Development has for this class.

Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.

tinbromide wrote: »

Group Finder fixes?

Can you guys take a week off of nerfing my toons and fix the group finder?

We've made some fixes on the backend that should've made the Group Finder issues better on the PTS. Have you tried it out there versus what's currently on Live?

Sorry, the magicka DK needs at least 1 full rotation of applying DOTs (at least 5 of them) to start actually putting down decent numbers, by that time all other classes will already burst the heck out of everything, on top of which other classes execute and deal 300% more damage with that ability? You have nerfed the banner numerous times, and now battleroar getting another nerf. Great, so we have abilities from Draconic Power and Earthen Heart costing 3.4-4.2K magicka. On top of which we have an ability that we have zero control over (inferno) whichever morp (flame of oblivion clearly is the one to go for) will hit anything it wishes.

This playstyle does not apply to PvP, just imagine one light armoured magicka DK applying 5 dots on you, where a stamina build with one wrecking blow will deal more damage, faster and have up to three proc sets hitting you.

Or how the magicka DK is supposed to deal with a sorcerer, when reflective scales is still bugged, costing nearly 3.6K magicka, and not reflecting force pulse or crushing shock? The same will be applies to the templar and NBs, they will all just outburst the mDK and they all have mobility or a means of escape and to top it all off an execute. DOTs from the DK in pvp (magicka builds) do not cause any threat to any of the other classes, burst is everything in Cyrodiil.

victorhrpereira

@ZOS_GinaBruno Wait, what? Dragonknights are supposed to be tanks now? What happened to every class can play any role? I have always heard about DK's being the class to "stand his ground", but all I see are nerfs to any kind of defense it has. The DK class, especially the magicka variant, is pretty much the only class that requires the use of a sustain set on live for pvp, you need to sacrifice damage for survivability and sustain, while other classes can work just fine being glass cannons, and yet more nerfs to blocking and battleroar. I really don't know what else we can do to save that class anymore.

dimensional

Gomumon wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank)

@ZOS_GinaBruno I thought the point was for each class to be free of role restrictions? I mean, wasn't this the excuse given behind nerfing the Templar? Seems to me that DKs should make viable DPS as well--which, as people are saying, they're not.

They sure as hell are super viable for DPS. My StamDK is ridiculous.

actosh

Biro123 wrote: »

Many people don't understand the purpose of a test server. I see this in a lot of games.

See I am a software developer. And developing software goes through a process of..:

1. Determine requirements - ie. what do we want to build/change
2. Do the design - ie. How are we going to achieve that - which programs/databases etc. need to change
3. Do the build - ie. changing the code
4. Unit testing - does the code change do as per the design states
5. Systems testing - do all the code changes fit together
6. User/Beta/QA testing - Does the whole thing work as determined by the Requirements (1.)

We are at stage 6. A long way down the development cycle. The aim of this test is to check if the requirements have been met. This means that if the requirement states that Constitution should return 60% less than it used to - is it now returning 60% less than it used to? If it isn't - its a bug. If it is - its working as intended

And that is the key word. Working As Intended - Intended is determined in black and white in the Requirements.

You guys are all asking for the requirements to change - Now don't get me wrong - ZoS probably are listening to the feedback - but changing requirements part way through a project creates a LOT of risk, a LOT of re-work and a LOT of retesting.
The way Requirement changes are generally done is by creating NEW requirements for the next project - which starts at step 1 again.

TLDR;
It will likely be a while till the feedback you are giving now gets to the PTS - and it will probably NOT be in this patch.

It does NOT mean this testing is pointless - AS LONG AS YOU REPORT ANY BUGS/EXPLOITS YOU FIND. Also the

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

To be fair, there have been changes in each PTS patch, but they aren't the changes you're looking for (sorry, had to get a #MayTheFourth joke in today somewhere). At the risk of regurgitating the same thing we've said before, we do care about your feedback, but keep in mind there's feedback coming from many different sources, some of which everyone here doesn't see (like in-game feedback, for example). Also, we need to take a look at what's best for the entire game and for its future. Your feedback isn't useless - we do read, and we do take everything into consideration.

Maybe then u should tell us what the freaking long term goal is.

Will class system be removed?
Will there be more classes?
Will ressource return stay *** up as it is?

So much more questions

NBrookus

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

To be fair, there have been changes in each PTS patch, but they aren't the changes you're looking for (sorry, had to get a #MayTheFourth joke in today somewhere). At the risk of regurgitating the same thing we've said before, we do care about your feedback, but keep in mind there's feedback coming from many different sources, some of which everyone here doesn't see (like in-game feedback, for example). Also, we need to take a look at what's best for the entire game and for its future. Your feedback isn't useless - we do read, and we do take everything into consideration.

@ZOS_GinaBruno There's been a lot of angst RE: the state of DK, specifically mDK. Last year, when there were similar concerns about the state of Stamina Sorcerer Wrobel did like a mini QA to provide the players with an idea of where he saw the class headed. Any chance we could get something similar on DK? I think some of our stress could be assuaged if we could at least see the direction Development has for this class.

Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.

Speaking as someone who does lean toward tanky DKs, removing our major mending and nerfing blocking and nerfing our primary resource return to buff a resource we don't need as much is not making us powerful as tanks. Tanks need MORE sustain than DPS classes, not less.

The reality is in PvP you still have to be able to kill people even if you build tanky, otherwise you are just a walking ultimate generator that dies last.

But why are DKs being told we are only supposed to be tanks when we have 3 DPS skill lines? Doesn't Warden have skill lines for tanking, healing and DPS? Weren't the Orb/Shard changes all about allowing other classes to be good support healers? Why are Dragonknights now being told we are only supposed to do one role?

Weps

dimensional wrote: »

Gomumon wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank)

@ZOS_GinaBruno I thought the point was for each class to be free of role restrictions? I mean, wasn't this the excuse given behind nerfing the Templar? Seems to me that DKs should make viable DPS as well--which, as people are saying, they're not.

They sure as hell are super viable for DPS. My StamDK is ridiculous.

This is the main issues with StamDK.
People are confusing 40k DPS parses on Skeletons or with coordinated group against bosses as something that can be applied everywhere.
Nighblades are pretty bad for PvE DPS but they're pretty much the posterboy of PvP cancerous builds.

StamDKs have powerful Ultis and least 2 of the 3 strongest DoTs in the game that can stack up on a boss and deal insane amounts of damage...that won't simply be the case for PvP where DoTs are less powerful, really hard to stack because a player doesn't just stand there taking all your damage as much as you can keep up with your pace or they simply don't work properly ( like Noxious Breath which is applied 50% of the time even if you spit it in the middle of a zerg ).
Meanwhile the only viable ulti for PvP is the leap because the banner will be avoided by the vast majority of the people and the Earthen Earth Armor is not stronger than Barrier, not effective as the sword and board Ulti and will only help you slightly for getting out of outnumbered situations.

Inig0

They keep saying we are doing this for the health of the game. We've been telling them how to successfully balance their game since before cp came out and theyve done the opposite in some cases. Like poisons for instance, i was in a focus group that insisted they make poisons usable but not game changing. POISONS was literally one of their attempts at the 'infinite sustain' issue that theyre trying so hard to solve. Poisons have made gameplay that makes your sustain rely on how cheesy someone else is. How is that good for the health of your game? Wheres the counter-play?

Since CP came out we told them. This is too strong. The infinite sustain issue comes directly from CP not dks helping hands or battle-roar (those are class defining passives.) The only thing that should have been touched was CP. CP should not give you more than a 15% BONUS on anything. Oh and their attempt to balance sorcs?? By buffing them?? 10% of frags is nothing compared to master-at-arms. They literally added another star that gives sorcs (other classes too but sorcs will benefit hugely from this) way more burst damage.

The pts is free bug testing for them that is all.